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Samsung S27A950D 120Hz
- Thread starter Vega
- Start date
Well pretty much any TN panel has better contrast/blacks, better color and is faster, even many of the IPS panels tested by DV have better response times. I don't know how the monitor even got 3/5 with such low contrast compared to pretty much every other TN tested in the last 2 years and a slow response time for a 700$ 120hz panel. Delta E Average on the Acer is >3 as well, should have got a 1 or 2/5 for color as well. Guess they just want to be nice so companies keep sending them stuff.
Easy win in terms of color, contrast and response time, but not panel uniformity which probably isn't going to be very good for either monitor (LED backlighting=Fail) or overall 3D performance which is still unknown.
Please read Toasty X's Input Lag post.
There is no real way for me to measure input lag properly. I used the SMT Tool and constantly get 5/7/10/12/14/16 ms values but these are most likely wrong, but in the ballpark range. I have to use 1024x760 to run 100hz on both my CRT+950 or 1600x900@60hz. The displays don't sync properly though resulting in the different values+tearing and inability to read some of the numbers.
Using the SMT Tool back in the day with the BenQ EW2420 I got around 10ms of input lag, while TFT Central used the old method and got an average of 21ms and PRAD.de used an osciloscope to get 2ms, which is the correct value.
Point being, a subjective assessment on my part is probably the most accurate info I can provide. Comapred with a CRT which has no lag and a lagless C-PVA panel I feel no difference.
Please read Toasty X's Input Lag post.
There is no real way for me to measure input lag properly. I used the SMT Tool and constantly get 5/7/10/12/14/16 ms values but these are most likely wrong, but in the ballpark range. I have to use 1024x760 to run 100hz on both my CRT+950 or 1600x900@60hz. The displays don't sync properly though resulting in the different values+tearing and inability to read some of the numbers.
Using the SMT Tool back in the day with the BenQ EW2420 I got around 10ms of input lag, while TFT Central used the old method and got an average of 21ms and PRAD.de used an osciloscope to get 2ms, which is the correct value.
Point being, a subjective assessment on my part is probably the most accurate info I can provide. Comapred with a CRT which has no lag and a lagless C-PVA panel I feel no difference.
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I tried KZ3 on PS3 in 3D, wasn't a fan of the PS2 like graphics. Played Dead Rising 2 with 2D-3D conversion (depth set to 5 is the best in the Samsung OSD) and there was far to much crosstalk ghosting during motion to be enjoyable. Every time I panned the camera left to right there was a ghost image on mos tthings. Frame Sequencial also works with the 360 but it is really weird.
With PC games the CT is only visible when standing still, but not during motion. There are a bunch of settings that can be tweaked on PC VS just being able to play with the 3D depth on 360 in the monitors OSD and in KZ3's main menu adjusting the depth.
I always thought they had to be the same res. I just told Nvida to clone without trying to match res+refresh and it forced the 950 to 1360x768 @120hz. Used 1/100th, forgot to turn off FRAPS.
13 SMT Tool lag Pictures
With PC games the CT is only visible when standing still, but not during motion. There are a bunch of settings that can be tweaked on PC VS just being able to play with the 3D depth on 360 in the monitors OSD and in KZ3's main menu adjusting the depth.
I always thought they had to be the same res. I just told Nvida to clone without trying to match res+refresh and it forced the 950 to 1360x768 @120hz. Used 1/100th, forgot to turn off FRAPS.
13 SMT Tool lag Pictures
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damn i thought the graphics were pretty decent. most def on my to play in 3d list.
How was the CT during this native 3D game?
hmmm dont happen to have crysis 2 do you? i think that'd be the money shot 3D game?
gorgeous, yet efficient engine for all to run. yes its only DX9
IMO KZ3 is the best looking game on consoles. Amazing uses of colors, contrast and amazing character models. Texture work is ok.
The visuals are downgraded so that the game can run in 3D, ends up looking like a PS2 game and the beautiful colors the game offers are destroyed. I didn't see CT, but the game looks terrible, definately not worth destroying the visuals for some added depth perception.2D-3D conversion with movies actually works quite well on PC. I paused film with clear crosstalk and went through the slider options, once you go above 2 the CT becomes quite visible.
Frame sequencial looks weird to me, there are no options in the OSD to fine tune it.
The visuals are downgraded so that the game can run in 3D, ends up looking like a PS2 game and the beautiful colors the game offers are destroyed. I didn't see CT, but the game looks terrible, definately not worth destroying the visuals for some added depth perception.2D-3D conversion with movies actually works quite well on PC. I paused film with clear crosstalk and went through the slider options, once you go above 2 the CT becomes quite visible.
Frame sequencial looks weird to me, there are no options in the OSD to fine tune it.
Sound like so far so good overall though as the monitor is displaying the PS3 as it should really. bummer they had to destroy it though, i didn't know they did that as its only a 720P game anyway. then again, PS3 does not have HDMI 1.4 so that'd be a likely factor in decision apart from raw GPU power
the acer doesn't do 3D on the fly correct? so thats still a plus regardless of how far it can be pushed before bad CT
the acer doesn't do 3D on the fly correct? so thats still a plus regardless of how far it can be pushed before bad CT
Not sure about the Acer, don't care either as most 200$ TN's put it to shame.
Ok messed around with L4D2 in 3D. By default the scene depth is set to 30, anything above 3 starts to show CT.
Look at the telephone pole on the right hand side Depth 2 vs Depth 9 vs Depth 11 vs Depth 50
Look at the CT from the trees along the top of the screen with Depth 50 vs Depth 3
The increased depth doesn't really do anything, lowering it only improves the 3D performance. Haven't really spotted in deferences when changing the Percent in Front option.
Ok messed around with L4D2 in 3D. By default the scene depth is set to 30, anything above 3 starts to show CT.
Look at the telephone pole on the right hand side Depth 2 vs Depth 9 vs Depth 11 vs Depth 50
Look at the CT from the trees along the top of the screen with Depth 50 vs Depth 3
The increased depth doesn't really do anything, lowering it only improves the 3D performance. Haven't really spotted in deferences when changing the Percent in Front option.
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I got mine now. Nvidia 3Dvision does not work so far (doesnt detect screen as 3dready, also tried to run it as a generic dlp or crt, didnt work either. If anyone has any tips id gladly try them out, ill also experiment abit more later.
However.. in 2d mode the screen is absolutely fantastic!
I enabled dynamic contrast (is this local dimming or not? samsung claims contrast of 5000000:1 with dynamic contrast on, and it does look perfect), and the colors look awesome, the blacks are totally pitch black, and there is no backlight bleed whatsoever. There is no ghosting in 2d mode at all that i saw (tried streetfighter 4 benchmark and world of warcraft. streetfighter 4 benchmark has extremely fast movement, faster than any playable game i know of).
However.. in 2d mode the screen is absolutely fantastic!
I enabled dynamic contrast (is this local dimming or not? samsung claims contrast of 5000000:1 with dynamic contrast on, and it does look perfect), and the colors look awesome, the blacks are totally pitch black, and there is no backlight bleed whatsoever. There is no ghosting in 2d mode at all that i saw (tried streetfighter 4 benchmark and world of warcraft. streetfighter 4 benchmark has extremely fast movement, faster than any playable game i know of).
WIN!!!!!!!
shame about nvidia kit though, oh well looks like i'll save the cash on the glasses but im sure some smart cookie will develop some hacked drivers or something.
im really really happy to hear about the lack of BLB and the DC.
dont have a copy of TRON 3D do you?
Crysis 2? if so grab the triDef profile from their forum and give er a whirl for me please
oh, and i believe sammy claim 1m:1 contrast with DC on
WIN!!!!!!!
shame about nvidia kit though, oh well looks like i'll save the cash on the glasses but im sure some smart cookie will develop some hacked drivers or something.
im really really happy to hear about the lack of BLB and the DC.
dont have a copy of TRON 3D do you?
Crysis 2? if so grab the triDef profile from their forum and give er a whirl for me please
oh, and i believe sammy claim 1m:1 contrast with DC on
I can get tron 3d on saturday/sunday maybe, wanted to get it but been busy/lazy. I do have a whole bunch of other 3d movies though. (avatar, lots of imax, saw).
I dont have crysis2, but wow, sf4 left for dead2 worked great with 3dvision at least, ill try them later or tomorrow with the samsung glasses.
I can also add that the viewing angles are the best of any TN ive owned or seen. Looks pretty good from the side until you are at a greater angle than youd ever want to watch from anyway.
Vertically its abit worse, but still, better than any other TN ive seen, and it does have the magic angle thing which i havent tried. Dynamic contrast disables magic angle, so i guess itll never be used ( i think they both use the backlight in their own way which is mutually exclusive).
Ill post pictures in a bit of viewing angles and some photo/picture with nice contrasts and colors and blacks, i have a decent camera.. just need the sun to set, so later tonight. (the blacks are so black that they turn into mirrors with even alittle light. It doesnt bother me but it would look silly on a photo).
The last 2 pictures I took were through the 3D glasses.
Dynamic Contrast doesn't work but this is to be expected, the monitor is not local dimming. Can't change any settings in the DC mode other wise it turns it off. Blacks only appear to be pitched black because of the relfective nature of the screen.
Nice to hear about a screen with little backlight bleeding. I wouldn't say the viewing angles are any improvment over your average TN, for example on the Acer G245H I could lean back in my chair without the screen darkening while this darkens right away. If I'm not perfectly center the screen starts to take an orange hue when viewed off angle.
The gamma shift is very good though for a large screen. Comapred to the S27A550H the 950D is much better, and it is slightly better than the smaller HP 2509b I tested.
Dynamic Contrast doesn't work but this is to be expected, the monitor is not local dimming. Can't change any settings in the DC mode other wise it turns it off. Blacks only appear to be pitched black because of the relfective nature of the screen.
Nice to hear about a screen with little backlight bleeding. I wouldn't say the viewing angles are any improvment over your average TN, for example on the Acer G245H I could lean back in my chair without the screen darkening while this darkens right away. If I'm not perfectly center the screen starts to take an orange hue when viewed off angle.
The gamma shift is very good though for a large screen. Comapred to the S27A550H the 950D is much better, and it is slightly better than the smaller HP 2509b I tested.
Sorry man my 3x 30" setup was too fatiguing on my eyes. Those massive screens were just overwhelming in 3x 30" portrait. I am back to just a single 27" 120Hz and am quite happy. ( I still have some 30" for backup).
Will you get rid also of your beautiful computer setup, for a less powerful one?
Wondering if someone else will dare disassemble these monitors. I really want to see how are they inside, and how was Samsung able to reach such a thin bezel.
Limeofswine
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2011
- Messages
- 31
Will you get rid also of your beautiful computer setup, for a less powerful one?
Wondering if someone else will dare disassemble these monitors. I really want to see how are they inside, and how was Samsung able to reach such a thin bezel.
Speaking of which, Does anyone know when the 750's are going to be released?
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I wish it was local dimming, then it would be able to achieve >850:1 contrast which is average. After calibration the contrast ratio falls to 760:1, well below the the 1100:1 and 930:1 achieveable on the HP and Acer I tested.
With DC on it does turn off the screen with pure blacks, but in practice with movies it changes the brightness (cranking it) far to quickly and becomes highly annoying. Letterbox bars will be displayed as greys with DC on.
My samsung 46a950 is local dimming and the effect is unoticeable, but it was their flagship model for LED tech back in the day when trying to compete with the Pioneer Kuro. I dont think we will see dimming TN panels when they are all ready trying to cut costs using LED backlighting and have quit using proper dimming in their TVs for years.
With DC on it does turn off the screen with pure blacks, but in practice with movies it changes the brightness (cranking it) far to quickly and becomes highly annoying. Letterbox bars will be displayed as greys with DC on.
My samsung 46a950 is local dimming and the effect is unoticeable, but it was their flagship model for LED tech back in the day when trying to compete with the Pioneer Kuro. I dont think we will see dimming TN panels when they are all ready trying to cut costs using LED backlighting and have quit using proper dimming in their TVs for years.
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Bummer. I thought LED backlit = local dimming. Might was as well use a CFL backlight if they are not going to implement local dimming; probably get better uniformity.
That being said I'll probably buy one of these if the CT is ok. With the depth set at 3 is the 3D effect good? or too shallow?
Thanks again.
That being said I'll probably buy one of these if the CT is ok. With the depth set at 3 is the 3D effect good? or too shallow?
Thanks again.
Finally dark here now, and now i see a tiny bit of blb at a few small spots at some edges.
If i dont focus my eyes directly on it, its not visible.
The viewing angles definitly seemed better when it was brighter in the room for some reason, now id say they are on par with my 2233rz, still decent. Viewing angles are a non-issue for me personally though.
If i dont focus my eyes directly on it, its not visible.
The viewing angles definitly seemed better when it was brighter in the room for some reason, now id say they are on par with my 2233rz, still decent. Viewing angles are a non-issue for me personally though.
Limeofswine
n00b
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2011
- Messages
- 31
Wow, really? O_O
Can't wait to see the photos of the disassembled monitor!
Oops , I thought the post read 'assembled'. But now you got me thinking...
Oops , I thought the post read 'assembled'. But now you got me thinking...
Do it! Do it! Do it!
It's like porn, only without the sticky stuff.
Let's keep this clean please!
Oops , I thought the post read 'assembled'. But now you got me thinking...
Do it! Do it! Do it!
Considering the interesting bezel and quality of the monitor, combined with the horrible stand it will be an amazing experience, especially if you have some other 27" to repurpose as a casing for this!
What are you, 5 years old? XD
The beaty of the human is the exact fact that it's not clean!
I have no idea. I'm in Canada and got it from NClX, where it shall most likely be returned.
Can you guys test the 2D -> 3D conversion for games please and report back ?
Crosstalk is terrible with consoles, I will try some 2D-3D conversion with PC games. With movies the 2D-3D works, however you can only have a little bit of depth other wise there is to much cross talk. I prefer the 2D colors vs Conversion.
I actually don't like it because both 250$ monitors I bought last year had better contrast/blacks, color, much better screen unifomirty and one of them supported 72hz which is the perfect happy medium VS getting a 120hz screen with heavy bleeding.
It still isn't a bad monitor though, it is very fast, has great default color accuracy, but this is mostly ruined by the screen uniformity on my unit and low contrast ratio. I could exchange it, but given my current disapointment I would rather pay the restocking fee. I would like to see some pictures of other peoples units displaying a full black screen in the dark. The only 950 i've seen has bad uniformity as well.
I still have to remeasure and re-calibrate everything to double check, maybe I can improve things, but the bleeding on my unit is visible with the lights on despite the low brightness and relfections!
Some other notes:
-Metro 2033 only displays a pure black screen when lauched in 3D
-Bad Company 2 doesn't work with 3D own, when I turn it off it messes up the in game graphics like it is trying to do 3D on one part of the screen but failing
My Tri Def 3D games list
[ame]http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i432/240hzTeslaStorm/Samsung%20S27A950D%20Review/tridefgamelist.png[/ame]
Will fool around with some of these games, I'm guessing it is going to take some tweaking with all of them to reduce crosstalk similar to L4D2. Will also post a KZ3 2D vs 3D to show that 2D is better.
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Just some thoughts on day two with the monitor.
Mine also does have some back light bleed on the sides. Although back light bleed has never really bothered me as I don't usually watch dark movies etc on my computer monitors. The back light bleed is virtually undetectable while viewing normal lit content on my particular sample. Not to mention every single LCD I've ever had/seen has had some degree of back light bleed. I also only use the monitor for smooth 2D so I will not comment on any 3D issues.
The reasons I like this monitor:
-Really quick pixel response time. This combined with 120Hz makes for a great gaming experience.
-Seemingly none to low input lag. (Sorry only subjective thoughts from a competitive FPS gamer very sensitive to input lag. I do not have the equipment to do a proper input lag test.)
-Ultra-clear panel really makes images "pop" and blacks look very deep (perceived and not measured) all while not being super reflective like traditional glossy screens (Ex: Apple 27").
-Unit is VERY stylish, real brushed aluminium and piano black finish on a super thin display. Looks very modern compared to most other LCD's these days. The competition looks virtually the same since LCD's were first released with simple cheap black rectangle plastic housings. Loving the asymmetric stand/design.
-Low power use/LED setup. The back of the display literally stays cool to the touch. Extremely little heat produced by the base where the electronics are housed. This is helped by having an external power brick only delivering 14 volts to the unit.
-The unit was actually made in Mexico. Very rare these days to have something like this not made in China. I like it when the rest of the world gets a crack at manufacturing products.
-High quality touch sensitive buttons for menu operation.
-Motion sensor and dynamic brightness sensing actually work and are useful.
-Color reproduction appears to be quite accurate.
-Up to 20 degrees of monitor tilt allows quite a liberal range of tilt. I currently use around 10 degree and I could not imagine a scenario in which you would want to tilt it back further than 20 degrees.
Cons:
-Some back light bleed around the edges.
-Price is a bit steep.
I would rate the monitor a 9 out of 10 as my number one priority is a good gaming experience. I would also give the HP ZR30w 30" I have compared it to also a 9/10 but I prefer the Samsung for gaming. The 120Hz smoothness is less fatiguing on my eyes.
Remember your priorities and mileage may vary with this monitor as I have focused on a great 2D gaming experience.
Mine also does have some back light bleed on the sides. Although back light bleed has never really bothered me as I don't usually watch dark movies etc on my computer monitors. The back light bleed is virtually undetectable while viewing normal lit content on my particular sample. Not to mention every single LCD I've ever had/seen has had some degree of back light bleed. I also only use the monitor for smooth 2D so I will not comment on any 3D issues.
The reasons I like this monitor:
-Really quick pixel response time. This combined with 120Hz makes for a great gaming experience.
-Seemingly none to low input lag. (Sorry only subjective thoughts from a competitive FPS gamer very sensitive to input lag. I do not have the equipment to do a proper input lag test.)
-Ultra-clear panel really makes images "pop" and blacks look very deep (perceived and not measured) all while not being super reflective like traditional glossy screens (Ex: Apple 27").
-Unit is VERY stylish, real brushed aluminium and piano black finish on a super thin display. Looks very modern compared to most other LCD's these days. The competition looks virtually the same since LCD's were first released with simple cheap black rectangle plastic housings. Loving the asymmetric stand/design.
-Low power use/LED setup. The back of the display literally stays cool to the touch. Extremely little heat produced by the base where the electronics are housed. This is helped by having an external power brick only delivering 14 volts to the unit.
-The unit was actually made in Mexico. Very rare these days to have something like this not made in China. I like it when the rest of the world gets a crack at manufacturing products.
-High quality touch sensitive buttons for menu operation.
-Motion sensor and dynamic brightness sensing actually work and are useful.
-Color reproduction appears to be quite accurate.
-Up to 20 degrees of monitor tilt allows quite a liberal range of tilt. I currently use around 10 degree and I could not imagine a scenario in which you would want to tilt it back further than 20 degrees.
Cons:
-Some back light bleed around the edges.
-Price is a bit steep.
I would rate the monitor a 9 out of 10 as my number one priority is a good gaming experience. I would also give the HP ZR30w 30" I have compared it to also a 9/10 but I prefer the Samsung for gaming. The 120Hz smoothness is less fatiguing on my eyes.
Remember your priorities and mileage may vary with this monitor as I have focused on a great 2D gaming experience.
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I have now tried left for dead 2 in 3d with a nvidia 590gtx (using a nvidia card forces you to use side-by-side instead of frame sequential). It was perfectly smooth and enjoyable but suffered from very obvious crosstalk. If i can get rid of the crosstalk, id rate this as just as good as nvidia 3dvision quality.
Tried to start world of warcraft, but it crashed at character screen. The login screen looked ok in 3d but fps was reeeeally low. Perhaps this is an incompatibility issue with geforce gtx 590 as it is dual-gpu?
There doesnt seem to be any stereoscopic player included with the samsung software?
Should we simply download their trial player ..? [Edit: nvidia stereoscopic player worked "fine". Tried avatar and saw 3d, and sometimes there was crosstalk visible but it was mild and not very annoying. Nvidia 3dvision did not have any crosstalk at all, so again i'd have to rate 3dvision > tridef. The only positive was that the glasses doesnt darken everything.]
Here is 1.1 of the tridef software for samsung if anyone has been looking: http://www.tridef.com/download/Samsung-SyncMaster-3D-Game-Launcher-TriDef-3D-1.1.html
Tried to start world of warcraft, but it crashed at character screen. The login screen looked ok in 3d but fps was reeeeally low. Perhaps this is an incompatibility issue with geforce gtx 590 as it is dual-gpu?
There doesnt seem to be any stereoscopic player included with the samsung software?
Should we simply download their trial player ..? [Edit: nvidia stereoscopic player worked "fine". Tried avatar and saw 3d, and sometimes there was crosstalk visible but it was mild and not very annoying. Nvidia 3dvision did not have any crosstalk at all, so again i'd have to rate 3dvision > tridef. The only positive was that the glasses doesnt darken everything.]
Here is 1.1 of the tridef software for samsung if anyone has been looking: http://www.tridef.com/download/Samsung-SyncMaster-3D-Game-Launcher-TriDef-3D-1.1.html
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Another minor annoyance is that the screen doesnt automatically detect 3d, so you always need to press the 3d menu button and switch, then switch back when quitting.
Overall i retain my view that this is an awesome 120hz 2d monitor in terms of colors, black levels and speed, definitly the best monitor for 2d/gaming use. I can add that i also own samsung 2233rz and benq xl2410t and they pale in comparison. Ive also seen the lg 23" in use and while that one is nice, this is definitly better.
For 3d, which i havent tested extensively, it could be good of the crosstalk can be tweaked away.. but on the other hand i hate having to tweak and mess around just to start a game in decent quality, nvidia 3dvision never gave me that kind of trouble. 3dvision certainly has its problems too sometimes, but much less than tridef in my experience so far.
I read some guide once about enabling nvidia 3dvision on some unsupported 120hz screen that involved disabling the edid pin or so, does anyone have any clue if that might work with this too?
Overall i retain my view that this is an awesome 120hz 2d monitor in terms of colors, black levels and speed, definitly the best monitor for 2d/gaming use. I can add that i also own samsung 2233rz and benq xl2410t and they pale in comparison. Ive also seen the lg 23" in use and while that one is nice, this is definitly better.
For 3d, which i havent tested extensively, it could be good of the crosstalk can be tweaked away.. but on the other hand i hate having to tweak and mess around just to start a game in decent quality, nvidia 3dvision never gave me that kind of trouble. 3dvision certainly has its problems too sometimes, but much less than tridef in my experience so far.
I read some guide once about enabling nvidia 3dvision on some unsupported 120hz screen that involved disabling the edid pin or so, does anyone have any clue if that might work with this too?
yep ive read this too. if you pull the 2 edid pins in the dvi cable it could work, i just need to do a little more reading.
but what about powerstrip software. i've just installed a trial and u can use it to create custom EDID driver files for the monitor! we could just call it an acer hn274h
ok what about this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10110&cs_id=1011003&p_id=3048&seq=1&format=2
its called the dvi doctor. it a hardware edid emulator. from what i understand, you plug it into a monitor and it will remember the edid, then i plug in a different monitor and it will emulate the edid code and force it to the gpu.
from a nvidia thread:
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