Samsung S27A950D 120Hz

eddie500 said:
I loved my samsung s27a950d. But I am wondering if the catleap 27" 1440p monitor is the way to go now.

What do you s27a950 owners think? Is 1440p the way to go?
Click to expand...
1440p is the way to go for graphics, programming, and desktop use (and slower action gaming).
However, LightBoost is the way to go if you primarily do faster-action video gaming on your monitor. More competitive advantage!
Also, the S27A950D has an undocumented strobe backlight mode (though Samsungs are not good for input lag for this):
Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO -- Works on 700D / 750D / 950D

PixPerAn Tests on LightBoost monitors (I own both BENQ XL2411T and ASUS VG278H)

baseline - 60 Hz mode (16.7ms frame samples)
50% less motion blur than 60 Hz (2x clearer motion) - TN 120 Hz mode (8.33ms frame samples)
60% less motion blur than 60 Hz (2.4x clearer motion) - TN 144 Hz mode (6.94ms frame samples)
85% less motion blur than 60 Hz (7x clearer motion) - TN 120 Hz mode with LightBoost set at 100% (2.4ms frame strobe flashes)
92% less motion blur than 60 Hz (12x clearer motion) - TN 120 Hz mode with LightBoost set at 10% (1.4ms frame strobe flashes)
Versus:
40% less motion blur than 60 Hz (1.7x clearer motion) - IPS overclocked to 120Hz (8.33ms + excess pixel persistence) -- Test done by Vega

This really clearly shows that not all 120 Hz is made the same. There is 7x less motion blur on a LightBoost-enabled 120 Hz TN than an overclocked 120 Hz IPS. Stroboscopically shortening the individually refreshes without increasing the refresh rate, makes a massive difference in motion blur elimination for people who are sensitive to motion blur, and want the "CRT silky smooth effect". As long as your eyes are comfortable with CRT >85 Hz.
 
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:)
Mark Rejhon said:
1440p is the way to go for graphics, programming, and desktop use (and slower action gaming).
However, LightBoost is the way to go if you primarily do faster-action video gaming on your monitor. More competitive advantage!
Also, the S27A950D has an undocumented strobe backlight mode (though Samsungs are not good for input lag for this):
Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO -- Works on 700D / 750D / 950D

PixPerAn Tests on LightBoost monitors (I own both BENQ XL2411T and ASUS VG278H)

baseline - 60 Hz mode (16.7ms frame samples)
50% less motion blur than 60 Hz (2x clearer motion) - TN 120 Hz mode (8.33ms frame samples)
60% less motion blur than 60 Hz (2.4x clearer motion) - TN 144 Hz mode (6.94ms frame samples)
85% less motion blur than 60 Hz (7x clearer motion) - TN 120 Hz mode with LightBoost set at 100% (2.4ms frame strobe flashes)
92% less motion blur than 60 Hz (12x clearer motion) - TN 120 Hz mode with LightBoost set at 10% (1.4ms frame strobe flashes)
Versus:
40% less motion blur than 60 Hz (1.7x clearer motion) - IPS overclocked to 120Hz (8.33ms + excess pixel persistence) -- Test done by Vega

This really clearly shows that not all 120 Hz is made the same. There is 7x less motion blur on a LightBoost-enabled 120 Hz TN than an overclocked 120 Hz IPS. Stroboscopically shortening the individually refreshes without increasing the refresh rate, makes a massive difference in motion blur elimination for people who are sensitive to motion blur, and want the "CRT silky smooth effect". As long as your eyes are comfortable with CRT >85 Hz.
Click to expand...


Sweet I'll have to try this on my S27A950D when I get home.
 
tried it, input lag was terrible and negated the whole reason for going with this monitor / 120hz in the first place
 
VulcaN said:
tried it, input lag was terrible and negated the whole reason for going with this monitor / 120hz in the first place
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Yeah, the Samsungs have very bad input lag in the strobe backlight mode. The Acer/Benq LightBoost is much better if you're interested in the strobe backlight (CRT style) mode.
 
Do the people who get input lag in frame-sequential mode have S27A950D or other models?
I notice no input lag on mine (S27A950D, first release week). I do clearly notice ~32ms input lag on 60hz vsync, so this must have way way less than that or none.
I just noticed i don't have the monitor driver installed, just the windows generic.
Nvidia setttings to maximum pre-rendered frames: 1. Vsync off.
 
Double-posting this here since people owning this monitor might not read the asus/benq lightboost thread (for those that didn't know, this monitor has a similar function to lightboost - it's simply activated by putting the monitor in frame sequential 3d mode):

I've been messing around with the settings on my S27A950D quite a lot since the washed out colors and weird brightness/gamma in frame sequential really annoyed me (blue tint etc, which i guess is a side effect of trying to push blue through the 3d glasses, as that's of course what the setting is originally for).

Anyway, it looks really quite nice - i had to re-check that frame sequential was really on when ingame, though there's a clear difference in windows still.

1. As people have said before, response time normal, else you can clearly see negative artifacts. (faster and fastest give a slightly brighter picture though - maybe the backlight strobe is longer in faster/fastest?).
2. Turn on frame sequential 3d
3. brightness 100, contrast 86
4. Enable "magic angle" - "group view".

It really looks quite decent, but if anyone has any further improvements please let us know.
 
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Morkai said:
1. As people have said before, response time normal, else you can clearly see negative artifacts. (faster and fastest give a slightly brighter picture though - maybe the backlight strobe is longer in faster/fastest?).
2. Turn on frame sequential 3d
3. brightness 100, contrast 86
4. Enable "magic angle" - "group view".
Click to expand...
That's great information, should those be enabled before enabling 3D mode? This should be posted in the Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO.

You can check colors via Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level to make sure that the greyscale is good, and tweak nVidia Control Panel to cancel out any tinting (reddish, bluish, etc).

I've noticed that lowering the Contrast even further, also reduces the LightBoost crosstalk artifacts (inter-refresh bleeding -- the faint sharp trailing ghost double-image); does this happen with Samsungs too?
 
Mark Rejhon said:
That's great information, should those be enabled before enabling 3D mode? This should be posted in the Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO.

You can check colors via Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level to make sure that the greyscale is good, and tweak nVidia Control Panel to cancel out any tinting (reddish, bluish, etc).

I've noticed that lowering the Contrast even further, also reduces the LightBoost crosstalk artifacts (inter-refresh bleeding -- the faint sharp trailing ghost double-image); does this happen with Samsungs too?
Click to expand...

Only response time needs to be set before enabling 3d, the rest can be changed while in 3d mode.
3d mode is limted to certain options though - only colors/brightness/contrast/magic angle can be changed.

Using the magic angle - group view setting really helps a lot (i've also seen it used for some good 2d calibrations).
After enabling magic angle - group view, i've tried lowering blue a bit further , but it seems to ruin yellows a bit.. hard to say, i don't have any calibration tool, and while i'm very sensitive to lag/stutter, i'm not sensitive at all to colors being a bit off as long as it's nothing extreme (i don't see a blue tint after enabling group view, but my girlfriend claims it has a hint of a blue tint when she walks by).

A wild guess about the different color tints that the various lightboost/3d monitors show when viewing 3dmode without glasses is that its meant to be that way to compensate for what the glasses do to the picture before it reaches the eye (for example, if i view actual 3d content with the glasses, it looks relatively normal - the monitors are after all manufactured and somewhat calibrated for use with glasses in 3d modes..).

A second wild guess about the samsung monitors is that when you set them to group view or some other similar setting, the original 2d calibration is once again applied, and thats why it instantly looks so much better.
 
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Thanks for the info; can you describe the exact steps?
Do you mean:

Changing "Magic Angle" setting to "Group View"?
-or-
Changing a "Profile" setting to "Magic Angle - Group View"?

I'd like to make sure when I update my instructions, that it's accurate.
 
Its a menu option in the OSD, so;
menu -> magic -> samsungmagicAngle: select option "group view"
 
I've tried many combinations of settings now, and what in the end seems best and most balanced but still bright is this:
response time normal,
frame sequential on,
group view on;
brightness 100
contrast 36

red 100
green 100
blue 100

This setting fully passes the lagom black lvl test, and the contrast from 1-30, while the last two shades blend. All in all it now looks quite great, even for movies and desktop use.
This setting is also the brightest i can achieve while maintaining quality.
 
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I did some additional testing with a displayport cable, and it didnt work well at all (kept turning 3d mode off etc - when using dl-dvi it is 100% stable).

So if using a S27A950D, use dvi. I guess this might be a reason it doesn't work well on the 750D version as it only has displayport.
 
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Tried it on my S23A750D, its working great!

Btw, could anyone test whether there's any difference in input lag between normal, faster and fastest? I _think_ fastest feels less muddy but that could be confirmation bias.
 
Tachikoma said:
Tried it on my S23A750D, its working great!

Btw, could anyone test whether there's any difference in input lag between normal, faster and fastest? I _think_ fastest feels less muddy but that could be confirmation bias.
Click to expand...

I doubt the overdrive affects input lag, however anything except normal response time creates very visible negative artifacts, at least on my S27A950D. Extremely apparant when watching high contrast moving objects, such as a jet flying overhead.
 
Questions:

1) Is this still the best model of it's type? It seems like there are some new samsungs out and there are some newer models of other brands which have similar specifications.

2) Do any of you use this (or similar) monitor in 20/30/20 setup? Can I have a picture? Which ones?

Thanks!
 
P1x3L said:
Questions:

1) Is this still the best model of it's type? It seems like there are some new samsungs out and there are some newer models of other brands which have similar specifications.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It depends on what you mean by "of it's type", and what your priorities are.
Assuming you mean 120+hz monitors, for gaming with little motion blur etc, disregarding all other factors, then the Asus VG248QE is probably (?) best.

These samsungs still have some strengths though:

* Still probably the best colors/general picture quality on the 120+hz category.
* Glossy. Most others are matte, and while you can de-matte, its a risk/hassle. (assuming you like glossy).
* While the frame sequential mode is slightly worse than the lightboost models, it is completely hassle free (at least with DVI) and the colors still look good/great. Using the settings i posted above it isn't that far from the normal 2d quality (I can post a video of some game(s) using the strobe mode/my settings later).

Cons:
* Slightly worse strobe mode than the newest lightboost models.
* Still quite expensive despite being nearly 2 years old.

That said, i'm quite happy with mine after i managed to sort the colors/brightness.
I usually buy anything new instantly that seems like an upgrade, but judging from what i have read about the lightboost models their strobe mode is a bit better, but the colors etc are worse, so it'd be more like a sidegrade it seems.

Since i already own a S27A950D, i think i'll stick with it.
If i didn't have one and had to buy a new monitor, i think i would go for the Asus VG248QE however.
 
I haven't seen any obvious artifacts yet, but I'm not likely to notice nor care when I'm doing fast paced gaming, I guess. Hope the 23 inch panel is different in this respect though.

Is it a definite thing that the "normal faster fastest" setting only affects overdrive? I'm judging input lag mainly by moving my cursor around the screen and it feels a slight bit more laggy on normal than fastest.

Regardless of input lag, I think my aim has improved on BF3, the lack of blur makes it a somewhat easier to control recoil.
 
Morkai said:
It depends on what you mean by "of it's type", and what your priorities are.
Assuming you mean 120+hz monitors, for gaming with little motion blur etc, disregarding all other factors, then the Asus VG248QE is probably (?) best.

These samsungs still have some strengths though:

* Still probably the best colors/general picture quality on the 120+hz category.
* Glossy. Most others are matte, and while you can de-matte, its a risk/hassle. (assuming you like glossy).
* While the frame sequential mode is slightly worse than the lightboost models, it is completely hassle free (at least with DVI) and the colors still look good/great. Using the settings i posted above it isn't that far from the normal 2d quality (I can post a video of some game(s) using the strobe mode/my settings later).

Cons:
* Slightly worse strobe mode than the newest lightboost models.
* Still quite expensive despite being nearly 2 years old.

That said, i'm quite happy with mine after i managed to sort the colors/brightness.
I usually buy anything new instantly that seems like an upgrade, but judging from what i have read about the lightboost models their strobe mode is a bit better, but the colors etc are worse, so it'd be more like a sidegrade it seems.

Since i already own a S27A950D, i think i'll stick with it.
If i didn't have one and had to buy a new monitor, i think i would go for the Asus VG248QE however.
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Thanks Morkai. I'm looking at the VG248QE, but I am shooting for a 27" screen (those 3" make a difference when watching movies and such). Do you have a recommendation regarding that constraint? Having a VESA mount is important as well. I'll be using one at first, but will eventually add two others or put it in the middle of a 20/30/20 rig.
 
I haven't seen any of the new benq/asus lightboost monitors myself, so i can't give any recommendation since i haven't compared them. Perhaps have a look at the new XL2720T, should be some reviews for it soon if not now?

The S27A950/750 series don't have vesa mount.
 
I'm confused about the reports of input lag. Ok so I have 3 of these. 1 is on Display Port, 1 is on DL-DVI, and another is on DL-DVI. Now I'm using 2 6870's with 2 DL-DVI ports and 2 Display ports per card. The 2nd DVI port does NOT support 120hz, so only 2/3 monitors are 120hz right now. I enabled the sequential 2-D setting on all 3 and immediately noticed the clarity of motion on the 2 monitors, the 3rd (60hz) monitor does not have this of course and also has the "soupy" mouse input lag that has been mentioned. It's unplayable if I were to use that monitor. The other 2 @ 120hz with sequential 2-D on have NO input lag whatsoever.

So where are the claims of input lag coming from? I just played an hour session of Serious Sam 3 and it felt exactly the same as when I played it when sequential was turned off. Except this time I had ridiculously clean motion clarity.

Anyone have any ideas why I have no input yet others do?
 
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Morkai said:
I did some additional testing with a displayport cable, and it didnt work well at all (kept turning 3d mode off etc - when using dl-dvi it is 100% stable).

So if using a S27A950D, use dvi. I guess this might be a reason it doesn't work well on the 750D version as it only has displayport.
Click to expand...

I found a fix for the displayport issue, well both displayport issues with this monitor.

First, to fix 3d mode turning off: Turning off GPU scaling worked for me

Second, to fix the screen randomly losing connection: it apparently has to do with uncertified cables. There is only a single VESA Authorized Test Center certified cable on the Displayport site. I bought the 3 meter version off of Amazon, and I haven't had a single lost connection yet. I've had the connection issue with Monoprice, Belkin, and Startech brands before coming to this cable.
 
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John Stamos said:
I'm confused about the reports of input lag. Ok so I have 3 of these. 1 is on Display Port, 1 is on DL-DVI, and another is on DL-DVI. Now I'm using 2 6870's with 2 DL-DVI ports and 2 Display ports per card. The 2nd DVI port does NOT support 120hz, so only 2/3 monitors are 120hz right now. I enabled the sequential 2-D setting on all 3 and immediately noticed the clarity of motion on the 2 monitors, the 3rd (60hz) monitor does not have this of course and also has the "soupy" mouse input lag that has been mentioned. It's unplayable if I were to use that monitor. The other 2 @ 120hz with sequential 2-D on have NO input lag whatsoever.

So where are the claims of input lag coming from? I just played an hour session of Serious Sam 3 and it felt exactly the same as when I played it when sequential was turned off. Except this time I had ridiculously clean motion clarity.

Anyone have any ideas why I have no input yet others do?
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I don't think there have been any scientific reports of input lag, just peoples opinions.
From what i remember, those who claim it has input lag have used the 750D model.
It could be something as simple as their input lag chain is high (nvidia default settings 3 pre-rendered frames + 125hz mouse alone is 32ms for example), but didn't use to notice it with the old blurry picture, and now do notice. Really no way of knowing until someone conducts a proper test.

I certainly don't notice any input lag difference whatsoever with frame sequential on/off on my 950D (which of course doesn't mean there isn't any), and i also can't see any logical reason there should be any.
Flickering of the backlight completely handled by hardware should absolutely not introduce any input lag unless the engineers were high/drunk during the design.

With lightboost i understand that it could introduce minor input lag as it it seems to be handled by a software-> hardware communication, but with pure hardware, no.
 
Did you try the settings i posted, or do did any of come up with any better? Id be very grateful for feedback from someone with a colorimeter or simply peoples opinions.
group view on;
brightness 100
contrast 36 (each step of contrast makes a huge difference, so primarily tune with this if using these settings)
red 100
green 100
blue 100
 
RacerJim said:
Second, to fix the screen randomly losing connection: it apparently has to do with uncertified cables. There is only a single VESA Authorized Test Center certified cable on the Displayport site. I bought the 3 meter version off of Amazon, and I haven't had a single lost connection yet. I've had the connection issue with Monoprice, Belkin, and Startech brands before coming to this cable.
Click to expand...


I've been having minor connection issues on boot up so I was looking at the cables you recommended. The ones you linked though are out of stock for anything longer than 3 feet. They also don't make mini to full size bigger than 6 feet?? That's a shame. I don't want to have to keep buying adapters.
 
Morkai said:
Flickering of the backlight completely handled by hardware should absolutely not introduce any input lag unless the engineers were high/drunk during the design.
Click to expand...
Actually, for best stroboscopic use (eliminate crosstalk) you need to wait for the pixel transitions to finish BEFORE strobing the backlight. Otherwise the pixel transitions become visible to the human eye in the form of crosstalk between refreshes.

That can add some latency. Some reverse engineering done by another HardForum user on a LightBoost display, shows that roughly half a frame of latency is being added, plus a pixel-persistence waiting period.

So the LCD refresh is specially modified, in order to be strobe-friendly, AND the timing of the strobes is intentionally slightly delayed to allow LCD pixels to finish transition in total darkness. That allows successfully bypassing of the pixel persistence as the motion blur limiting factor (and crosstalk), being unseen in the dark.
 
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Mark Rejhon said:
Actually, for best stroboscopic use (eliminate crosstalk) you need to wait for the pixel transitions to finish BEFORE strobing the backlight. Otherwise the pixel transitions become visible to the human eye in the form of crosstalk between refreshes.

That can add some latency. Some reverse engineering done by another HardForum user on a LightBoost display, shows that roughly half a frame of latency is being added, plus a pixel-persistence waiting period.

So the LCD refresh is specially modified, in order to be strobe-friendly, AND the timing of the strobes is intentionally slightly delayed to allow LCD pixels to finish transition in total darkness. That allows successfully bypassing of the pixel persistence as the motion blur limiting factor (and crosstalk), being unseen in the dark.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course the backlight is off during the pixel refresh, (roughly 3ms on these models, almost half a frame), but i mean it should in no way add any additional input lag other than that.
 
I dont need a scientific experiment to tell there is additonal input lag on this monitor when its as plain as night and day.

I'm getting ~90 FPS in ARMA 2 right now (GTX 680), no input lag that I can discern what-so-ever. Then I change response time to normal in the monitor OSD and finally enable frame-sequential mode.

Immediately I notice the motion clarity / CRT effect that this "lightboost" method brings and immediately I notice that my mouse movements are laggier than they were before. I cant wait to sell this monitor and get one of the ones that are mentioned in other theads as being "144hz / lightboost" that dont have as much lag because even WITH the lag I can tell that the effect is awesome.

But I will not play this way when gaming because the additional lag -while I could get used to it- is not worth it. It may mean the difference between a kill or being killed.
 
VulcaN said:
I dont need a scientific experiment to tell there is additonal input lag on this monitor when its as plain as night and day.

I'm getting ~90 FPS in ARMA 2 right now (GTX 680), no input lag that I can discern what-so-ever. Then I change response time to normal in the monitor OSD and finally enable frame-sequential mode.

Immediately I notice the motion clarity / CRT effect that this "lightboost" method brings and immediately I notice that my mouse movements are laggier than they were before. I cant wait to sell this monitor and get one of the ones that are mentioned in other theads as being "144hz / lightboost" that dont have as much lag because even WITH the lag I can tell that the effect is awesome.

But I will not play this way when gaming because the additional lag -while I could get used to it- is not worth it. It may mean the difference between a kill or being killed.
Click to expand...

Which model do you mean by "this monitor"?
 
John Stamos said:
I've been having minor connection issues on boot up so I was looking at the cables you recommended. The ones you linked though are out of stock for anything longer than 3 feet. They also don't make mini to full size bigger than 6 feet?? That's a shame. I don't want to have to keep buying adapters.
Click to expand...

The 3m version is in stock on Amazon. There doesn't seem to be any certified mini-DP to DP cables, but there is an adapter, here, made by the same company that is claimed to be certified for AMD cards.
 
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VulcaN said:
I dont need a scientific experiment to tell there is additonal input lag on this monitor when its as plain as night and day.
Click to expand...
Earlier in this thread, there was a measurement with the Samsung, it has >20ms lag with its stroboscopic mode. Both the ASUS and BENQ has less than half that, during LightBoost mode (assuming the tip to disable Control+T was followed).
 
Mark Rejhon said:
Earlier in this thread, there was a measurement with the Samsung, it has >20ms lag with its stroboscopic mode. Both the ASUS and BENQ has less than half that, during LightBoost mode (assuming the tip to disable Control+T was followed).
Click to expand...

I can't find any such test in this thread, nor anywhere else with google/on the other major forums i read. I'd be very interested in seeing it.

The only test i've ever seen regarding the 3d is the 2d->3d conversion, which iirc added 30-something ms input lag, but that is completely unrelated.
 
I've had this monitor for about 2 years now, and figured that I'd give another pass at trying to "optimize" the monitor in case there was anything I missed. I decided to give the recommendation in this post a shot, which it seems many others have followed also:

Morkai said:
Double-posting this here since people owning this monitor might not read the asus/benq lightboost thread (for those that didn't know, this monitor has a similar function to lightboost - it's simply activated by putting the monitor in frame sequential 3d mode):

I've been messing around with the settings on my S27A950D quite a lot since the washed out colors and weird brightness/gamma in frame sequential really annoyed me (blue tint etc, which i guess is a side effect of trying to push blue through the 3d glasses, as that's of course what the setting is originally for).

Anyway, it looks really quite nice - i had to re-check that frame sequential was really on when ingame, though there's a clear difference in windows still.

1. As people have said before, response time normal, else you can clearly see negative artifacts. (faster and fastest give a slightly brighter picture though - maybe the backlight strobe is longer in faster/fastest?).
2. Turn on frame sequential 3d
3. brightness 100, contrast 86
4. Enable "magic angle" - "group view".

It really looks quite decent, but if anyone has any further improvements please let us know.
Click to expand...

The problem for me is that doing this made the screen WAY too dim. I use 34/100 Brightness and 74/100 Contrast when in 2d mode. In 3d mode, I had Brightness up to 100/100 and Contrast at 86/100 as recommended, but the screen is still about half as bright as the settings I used in 2d mode. It's dim to the point where reflections in the monitor (it's a glossy panel) are actually brighter than what is on screen in most cases unless I turn off my light and close the windows.

Just seems odd to have such a huge thread, with so many following these recommendations, but so few mentioning any issue with brightness. After reading one of the few posts that did, I did try this:

Morkai said:
I've tried many combinations of settings now, and what in the end seems best and most balanced but still bright is this:
response time normal,
frame sequential on,
group view on;
brightness 100
contrast 36

red 100
green 100
blue 100

This setting fully passes the lagom black lvl test, and the contrast from 1-30, while the last two shades blend. All in all it now looks quite great, even for movies and desktop use.
This setting is also the brightest i can achieve while maintaining quality.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I didn't notice it to be significantly brighter, and colors also seemed a bit off with those settings.

Anyone know of any tricks to get the brightness back up to a reasonable level? Otherwise I'll probably just go back to 2d mode.

Assuming I end up going back to just using 2d mode, does anyone know if "Normal" is still the best setting to use for response time, as opposed to "Faster", or "Fastest"? Many have mentioned visual artifacts using the faster and fastest settings, but I'm not clear on if that only applies when running in a 3d mode or not.
 
Would anyone happen to know how this monitor would compare to those new gaming TN panels?

I deicded to switch back to my old S72a950d 1080P monitor from my 1440 IPS overclocked overlord tempest for competitive Overwatch.

I find the Samsung to be really smooth and better than my 1440P IPS at 100hZ.

I was wondering if one of those new gaming TN 144HZ panels would blow away my Samsung S27A950d?
 
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