Samsung new PVA screens

Yah, but this "Connectivity comes in the form of twin DVI-Ds and a single VGA input, " is not good.

Dave
 
cPVA? Hrm, I hope this isn't a cutdown PVA spec and actually improves on the failings of S-PVA/MVA matrices. "...true 178-deg viewing angle", indicates it might be an improved panel. Lets hope they fixed input lag and response time a little too. I'm getting more and more anxious to drop this 24" TN of mine even if it means going a slower PVA style.
 
I do believe that these would be the first 16:9 premium panel type monitors coming to the market right?
 
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daveswantek said:
Yah, but this "Connectivity comes in the form of twin DVI-Ds and a single VGA input, " is not good.

Dave
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Why? 2xDVI = Good. Or do you mean that DVI-I would be better? What does actually require DVI-I instead of DVI-D?
 
Any word on availability? I seem to recall that P2370 was announced at the same time as the LED backlit version P2370L; CCFL version is available and LED version is nowhere to be seen... hmm...

But I like these. I would consider buying one!
 
Lostman said:
Why? 2xDVI = Good. Or do you mean that DVI-I would be better? What does actually require DVI-I instead of DVI-D?
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No, I mean no Displayport. Samsung made a big deal out of supporting Displayport over a year ago and they have not released a single product that has it. The lack of HDMI is no big deal because there are no speakers anyway

p4gs said:
ugh, give us IPS
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Has Samsung ever shipped an IPS panal? I cannot say for sure, but I doubt it.

One thing I will say for Samsung is that they have improved their S-PVA panals a lot over the past 2 years. I hope this puts some pressure on LG to improve the QC issues with IPS panals.

Dave
 
albovin said:
Sony is not present on consumer monitor market now and does not believe anything.
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Well either way, the results will be in plain view whether or not you continue on your ages long anti VA tirade.
 
albovin said:
Sony is not present on consumer monitor market now and does not believe anything.
Click to expand...

um, they make televisions. Last I checked, they made their LCD TVs with S-PVA panels...and they believe pva is superior and provides a better picture. I specifically read an article on it dude.
 
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Omerta said:
um, they make televisions. Last I checked, they made their LCD TVs with S-PVA screens...and they believe pva is superior and provides a better picture. I specifically read an article on it dude.
Click to expand...

This forum is about monitors.
Panels for TVs are totally different dude.
 
albovin said:
This forum is about monitors.
Panels for TVs are totally different dude.
Click to expand...

whatever, they still use S-PVA

and I guess I'll PM kyle to make a separate television forum because according to you TVs (TVs can be used as monitors, too, and many people here use their TV as a monitor) cannot be discussed here.

get real
 
Dainas said:
Well either way, the results will be in plain view whether or not you continue on your ages long anti VA tirade.
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Off topic for those who hear the bell but don't know where it is: the only LCD TV I would buy if I have to, is a good Sony.
Some of their low level models are total garbage though...
 
albovin said:
Off topic for those who hear the bell but don't know where it is: the only LCD TV I would buy if I have to, is a good Sony.
Some of their low level models are total garbage though...
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Sony's so proud that they now have your endorsement...everyone go out and by a Sony LCD TV now.

Honestly, a lot of people here are rather insane when it comes to analyzing monitors...just get what looks best to you (unless you really need color accuracy). Problem solved. When I look at my screens, I look at what I'm doing. I don't sit around looking how much a panel's gamma shifts. That is a waste of time.
 
Omerta said:
get real
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This is what I am talking about.
1. Best Sony LCD monitors were IPS.
2. Best Sony TVs are some sort of VA for TVs or whatever - I don't care about panels in TVs - that's a different story. You can find disgusting TVs on "IPS" and very good on "PVA".
 
lawless2142 said:
cPVA? Hrm, I hope this isn't a cutdown PVA spec and actually improves on the failings of S-PVA/MVA matrices. "...true 178-deg viewing angle", indicates it might be an improved panel. Lets hope they fixed input lag and response time a little too. I'm getting more and more anxious to drop this 24" TN of mine even if it means going a slower PVA style.
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Question if I may?

people say VA is slow.

I have 3 TN screens here (2 laptop and one on the desk), all 3 of them so visible huge lag on the desktop, eg. moving the mouse pointer I can see with my eyes never mind using a camera shadows on the mouse pointer. If I scroll a web page there is lag mainly white lagging over darker colours. The VA panel I have does have some minor visible black lag but its significantly less than all the TN screens and I have no shadow behind my mouse pointer. I also have a e-IPS which beats VA and TN and feels like a CRT in terms of lag.

So it would seem either
1 - the advertised specs of response time on TN are BS. (my 8ms TN laggier than my 16ms VA)
2 - my TN's are slower than average TN's (all 3 of them?)
3 - my VA is faster than other VA's
 
albovin said:
This is what I am talking about.
1. Best Sony LCD monitors were IPS.
2. Best Sony TVs are some sort of VA for TVs or whatever - I don't care about panels in TVs - that's a different story. You can find disgusting TVs on "IPS" and very good on "PVA".
Click to expand...

Cant say I am too surprised I think VA's have the best blacks, and black is very important when the screen is to be used for tv/movies.
 
The IT168 pictures show the monitor crushing pretty hard. Take a look for me, Is this a reasonable assessment?
 
Seen on German info pages that release of F2080/2380 is scheduled for June, 229/299 Euro
 
Whoisthisreally said:
The IT168 pictures show the monitor crushing pretty hard. Take a look for me, Is this a reasonable assessment?
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What do you mean by crushing?

BTW, this is sRGB, isn't it? 16:9 isn't my cup of tea, but on the other hand, I don't mind either; as long as I can fit two terminal windows next to each other, I'm fine.

I like how this screen is shaping up. If only it could show up on the old continent sooner...
 
VA's have vastly superior black levels and contrast. That's useful for text (contrast), presentations (contrast) and movies (black levels). IPS has in nearly every consumer model review crummy "grayish" blacks that really are it's downfall. For most of us "common folks" that contrast and black level stand right out when looking at a monitor. So I have preferred VA models in all cases when looking at them side by side. Most "blind" consumer tests turn up the same results. Theory aside, in practicality VA panels are very useful to the average user.
 
Im going to have to say that I prefer the PVA monitor also. I had a Dell 2407 and Benq 241 that both had very nice PQ. I also have a Fujitsu notebook with the MVA type display which cant be beat with todays notebook computers.

It really does get to a point that you have to ignore all these color calibrations and screen types and just go with what looks good in your eyes. Everyone is different. I dont think most people would like how a calibrated monitor or TV would look anyway because there is not that much color after calibration.
 
albovin said:
This forum is about monitors.
Panels for TVs are totally different dude.
Click to expand...

Well, this forum is about "displays" :)

But the topic is about cPVA. Maybe it is an S-PVA variant tailored specially for the use of "edge LED".

PVA screens are hardly better than IPS, but surely Samsung and Eizo marketing IS better than that of LG and NEC :)
 
Anemone said:
VA's have vastly superior black levels and contrast. That's useful for text (contrast), presentations (contrast) and movies (black levels). IPS has in nearly every consumer model review crummy "grayish" blacks that really are it's downfall. For most of us "common folks" that contrast and black level stand right out when looking at a monitor. So I have preferred VA models in all cases when looking at them side by side. Most "blind" consumer tests turn up the same results. Theory aside, in practicality VA panels are very useful to the average user.
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Coulld you help us "common folks" understand why fuzzy text dotted with triangular pixels on VA is better?

Why images with massive detail loss is better for presentations?

What black level and contrast stand right out when watching video?

Why do "blind" consumers teach those who can see?
 
Sounds promising.

But PVA has been claiming great 178 degree viewing angles for a decade, so I would take that with a grain of salt till I saw one in person.

PVA is the slowest matrix IMO and needs the most Overdrive to correct. It also has the most lag.

If they really have improved the viewing angle to near IPS levels.
If they keep overall lag to 30ms.
If the don't have strange overdirve artifacts to do it.

Then I would be interested.

I have an NEC 2490. Best veiwing angles ever. I also have an Samsung MVA TV, that has higher contrast but it looks lower unless you sit dead center do to the viewing angle washout. The Panasonic 37" Alpha IPS had superb viewing angles but it was $400 more and I figure I would mostly watch TV from straight on, so I live with it. But it does look like crap unless I am seated in TV viewing position.

Just noticed additional bonus. Looks like this is sRGB (ie standard gamut).

IMO this looks more like Samsungs answer to eIPS. A basic standard gamut version. In which case I expect it will still have typical PVA viewing angle issues.
 
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Lostman said:
What do you mean by crushing?
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http://img.publish.it168.com/2009/0428/images/1444603.jpg

Take a look at the person. I might get you to notice the absence of detail in her hair. I'm guessing this is a fairly good example of the VA trait where the presence of tones proximate to 0,0,0 black cannot be seen head-on.

here is a good thread on the subject. I think I actually admire this one compared to that deathmatch CRT thread. This trait does exist and I was able to catch a glimpse of it last time I was in front of a Samsung 40" model.

In fact, LG actually attacks the tech in its promotional material, here:

14mxm5k.png
 
That VA bowl of fruit is a perfect example of what my MVA TV does and my PVA monitor did and is why I went IPS.
 
Lostman said:
What do you mean by crushing?

BTW, this is sRGB, isn't it? 16:9 isn't my cup of tea, but on the other hand, I don't mind either; as long as I can fit two terminal windows next to each other, I'm fine.

I like how this screen is shaping up. If only it could show up on the old continent sooner...
Click to expand...

Simply put crushing means that several of the darkest shades of grey all look the same as black. You can test it here: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

My 2407WFP had black crush real bad, but my newer 2709W does not. This is one of the areas where S-PVA has improved a lot.

I actual agree with Snowdog on this one. I am betting that cPVA is a budget version and will have a hard time competing with TN and eIPS due to performance issues.

My guess anyway.

Dave
 
albovin said:
Coulld you help us "common folks" understand why fuzzy text dotted with triangular pixels on VA is better?

Why images with massive detail loss is better for presentations?

What black level and contrast stand right out when watching video?

Why do "blind" consumers teach those who can see?
Click to expand...

Dude, every panel is different. You'll find shitty IPS monitors just as you find shitty VA panels. It all depends on the monitor. You can't just make one suit for every occasion...

I've owned them all...H-IPS, TN, MVA, S-PVA, S-IPS, and I have yet to find a monitor with a better picture than my 305T, especially in the 30" range. I don't want to look at panels with over aggressive coating (which is on most IPS monitors) that looks like dirt/dust. I don't like the backlight issues of IPS, and I don't like the average blacks. And guess what, there was still gamma shift on every IPS monitor I've owned.

Point is, what's "best" is an intellectual idea and artificial, so whatever you think is best, other people will disagree. You should stop posting with this "holier-than-thou" attitude as to you know what everyone should like and what's best. Everyone has their own opinions on the matter, and in actuality, there's not really a "best." This is all very subjective.

No LCD monitor is perfect, and as long as that is the case, I will just buy what gives me the best (best as in what I THINK is best) picture for my photos, games, and movies.

solaris54 said:
I dont think most people would like how a calibrated monitor or TV would look anyway because there is not that much color after calibration.
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QFT. After calibrating our 52" samsung tv, I thought the picture looked like crap. I set it back to its factory settings (for the most part) and the picture looked 100x better.
 
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Omerta said:
Dude, every panel is different. You'll find shitty IPS monitors just as you find shitty VA panels. It all depends on the monitor. You can't just make one suit for every occasion...

I've owned them all...H-IPS, TN, MVA, S-PVA, S-IPS, and I have yet to find a monitor with a better picture than my 305T, especially in the 30" range. I don't want to look at panels with over aggressive coating (which is on most IPS monitors) that looks like dirt/dust. I don't like the backlight issues of IPS, and I don't like the average blacks. And guess what, there was still gamma shift on every IPS monitor I've owned.

Point is, what's "best" is an intellectual idea and artificial, so whatever you think is best, other people will disagree. You should stop posting with this "holier-than-thou" attitude as to you know what everyone should like and what's best. Everyone has their own opinions on the matter, and in actuality, there's not really a "best." This is all very subjective.

No LCD monitor is perfect, and as long as that is the case, I will just buy what gives me the best (best as in what I THINK is best) picture for my photos, games, and movies.



QFT. After calibrating our 52" samsung tv, I thought the picture looked like crap. I set it back to its factory settings (for the most part) and the picture looked 100x better.
Click to expand...

+1; I agree. Display implamentation and technology is two different things and different users have very different needs.

With respect to calibration. It helped my Dell 2709W, but I too am satisified with the factory color settings on my Samsung LN52A650. I have seen people claim otherwise on the AVS Forums, so once again it is a matter personal of tast.

Dave
 
Omerta said:
Dude, every panel is different. You'll find shitty IPS monitors just as you find shitty VA panels. It all depends on the monitor. You can't just make one suit for every occasion...

I've owned them all...H-IPS, TN, MVA, S-PVA, S-IPS, and I have yet to find a monitor with a better picture than my 305T, especially in the 30" range. I don't want to look at panels with over aggressive coating (which is on most IPS monitors) that looks like dirt/dust. I don't like the backlight issues of IPS, and I don't like the average blacks. And guess what, there was still gamma shift on every IPS monitor I've owned.

Point is, what's "best" is an intellectual idea and artificial, so whatever you think is best, other people will disagree. You should stop posting with this "holier-than-thou" attitude as to you know what everyone should like and what's best. Everyone has their own opinions on the matter, and in actuality, there's not really a "best." This is all very subjective.

No LCD monitor is perfect, and as long as that is the case, I will just buy what gives me the best (best as in what I THINK is best) picture for my photos, games, and movies.



QFT. After calibrating our 52" samsung tv, I thought the picture looked like crap. I set it back to its factory settings (for the most part) and the picture looked 100x better.
Click to expand...


The "best" attribute of VA technology just happens to be it's major flaw. Sure, they have great black levels, at the cost of crush. What's wrong though, is they only crush when viewed head on. The outer portions of the screen have more detail and don't crush while viewing head on, so that there is what appears as a "shadow" in the middle of the image. This is especially evident on grey backgrounds and dark images with uniform horizontal detail.

IPS have no issues with backlights, they use the same backlights as all other panel types. IPS panels have traditionally not blocked the backlight as well as VA, thus black levels have suffered. But that has been changing, the new H-IPS in the HP LP2475w has produced some of the lowest black levels when calibrated at or near 120 cd/m2...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

"Best" is truly subjective, but there is no denying the flaw of VA technology. Some people are not bothered by it. But my money is on people that sit 2 feet in front of a monitor are going to notice it, and eventully get sick of it if they care about image quality.

Now on a TV that you sit 10+ feet from, it's not as much of an issue when sitting right infront of it anyway.
 
Omerta said:
You should stop posting with this .. attitude
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You should stop posting comments on posters instead of posting on the topic.
My attitude is tests, measurements, pictures and videos.
I've posted links to illustrate that 2x2=4.
Neither 2709, nor 305T are any different in that regard - same PVA with black crush and colorshift.
It's not a matter of opinion - this is how a particular technology is designed. ABCs of LCD.
Opinion? Here you are.
In my opinion, 27"PVA (Dells, Samsung, Eizo) are good monitors. I like them. They occupy a certain niche in screen size and dot pitch, capable of relatively good colors and viewing angles, good for blu-ray and PS3, etc.
But one should be a zero noob to deny facts about standard limitations that panel technology puts on them: black crush of dark tones (can be relieved by screwing gamma curve at the cost of whiter black and lower CR), colorshift from vieving angles (not curable), color gamut issue.
If you can live without quality "printed photo looking" picture - those are stiil good in my opinion (even with PVA limitations).

Sorry, we cannot debate LCD basics in every thread. All tutorials are published already.
Detailed review of a PVA monitor.
If someone believes that 2x2 is not 4 - that's someone's own problem.
 
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