Samsung Is a Victim of Industrial Espionage as Foldable Screen Tech Sold to China

[theBrownLlama]

Yeah Pakistan was already snug with China before but after Trump gave them the finger (they were being dishonest so he wasn't completely wrong), China lured them in even further with the belt & road initiative by pouring something like $45 billion in development in Pakistan. So lures like that will get all these little developing nations in the arms of an ever expanding China and in Pakistan's case, it's a nuclear power that serves as an important hub for American interests in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

My money is on Afghanistan welcoming the Chinese with open arms to mine their trillion dollar worth of minerals which would be epic considering how much money America wasted on a war there.

and Pakistan failed to pay the loans....already seen what will happen in Sri Lanka. Taking Chinese money is FAR from benign, and it would be impossible to go to any International Court with matters involving the Chinese.

and China in Afghanistan is not good for the ordinary man, since matters of ethics is even further from Chinese minds. If they did go in , they will probably pump money into the radical Islamist warlords and the Taliban while slowly nurturing an covert network within these to ensure any movement to influence Chinese Muslims to stand for their religion (the reason why they are now interned en masse in 'reeducation camps' ) are nipped at the bud. BUT do they even want to risk it? Some money sent in will certainly pass through borders to these repressed , abused and marginalized communities which had lashed out before in terror attacks ( mass knife stabbings, car ramming attacks. And money means guns and explosives, and more sophistication ).

so an Afghanistan similar to the worse days of the Taliban will be back to the norm under Chinese money. That's would be a failure for the world.

And that USD 62b into Pakistan is probably USD 30b into the pockets, hence the reason why anyone would take a bad loan with bad interest rates and repayment schedules.

 

[MrDeaf]

repatriate the pollution and environmental impacts

Well, the Rich Chinese and even the Chinese government will simply buy property in land that isn't heavily polluted in another country, so I doubt they really care about polluting back "home".
They'll just nonchalantly move to a new home to pollute. Almost like a silent invasion of sorts.

Everyone should be grilling corporations that offshore manufacturing to China.
Why buy products from unpatriotic corporations that make the Chinese richer and stronger, all the while when they are making (insert your country here) poorer and weaker?

And by Rich/Poor and Strong/Weak, I mean not only financially, but also retaining knowledge, skills and talent.

 

[Stimpy88]

Hahaha, it’s about time Samsung learned the old adage, “what goes around, comes around.”

Can’t say I’m sorry for them.

But not only that, but this should be a reminder to all, that you do business with 3rd world countries with no ethics, and tonnes more money and religion than sense, then don’t be surprised if they bite your hand while your feeding them.

 

[5150Joker]

and Pakistan failed to pay the loans....already seen what will happen in Sri Lanka. Taking Chinese money is FAR from benign, and it would be impossible to go to any International Court with matters involving the Chinese.

and China in Afghanistan is not good for the ordinary man, since matters of ethics is even further from Chinese minds. If they did go in , they will probably pump money into the radical Islamist warlords and the Taliban while slowly nurturing an covert network within these to ensure any movement to influence Chinese Muslims to stand for their religion (the reason why they are now interned en masse in 'reeducation camps' ) are nipped at the bud. BUT do they even want to risk it? Some money sent in will certainly pass through borders to these repressed and abused communities.

so an Afghanistan similar to the worse days of the Taliban will be back to the norm under Chinese money. That's would be a failure for the world.

Of course China wants to keep Pakistan hooked on unbalanced loans so that it continues towing the Chinese line and jumps and down when China commands it. It has a special interest in containing a rising India and to stave off US interests in the region as well. Furthermore Pakistan's sea port holds a strategic trade and military value for China so it isn't a surprise they continue to pump billions into Pakistan and let it fly when they default. So the situation isn't quite comparable to Sri Lanka as China views Pakistan as much more strategically important (it's their Israel) so they'll give them a longer rope to hang themselves with. I did read an article the other day saying Pakistan's new elected leader is taking a second look at Chinese loans in the country so we'll see what comes of it.

As for Afghanistan, as soon as China gets inside, they'll definitely fund warlords to serve at their behest and that will include securing all the mines while also reeducating them about how Han Chinese are their best friends. But at least their approach is a bit better than the US who just goes in and flattens the country with bombs.

 

[Laowai]

Well, the Rich Chinese and even the Chinese government will simply buy property in land that isn't heavily polluted in another country, so I doubt they really care about polluting back "home".
They'll just nonchalantly move to a new home to pollute. Almost like a silent invasion of sorts.

Everyone should be grilling corporations that offshore manufacturing to China.
Why buy products from unpatriotic corporations that make the Chinese richer and stronger, all the while when they are making (insert your country here) poorer and weaker?

And by Rich/Poor and Strong/Weak, I mean not only financially, but also retaining knowledge, skills and talent.

Funny that you use the word 'invasion'.
Mainlanders are often referred to as locusts by Chinese in Hong Kong. It's for a different reason than the one you describe though.
Chinese buying up property outside of China has been an issue for many countries. Australia comes to mind immediately. They had to change their regulations to reduce the massive influx of Chinese money flooding their housing market which was making homes unaffordable for many Australians.
When Chinese are limited to only transfer roughly $50,000 out of China per year, one has to wonder how the hell they're buying million-dollar homes.

 

[tetris42]

IMHO, we need to get together with our traditonal allies, the free democracies of the world and put on a United front, go all Cuba/Iran style complete embargo on China, and penalize anyone in the world who keeps doing business with them, until they reverde course and agree to respect IP rights.

Yes, this would ptobably result in a short term serious market downturn,

And that's why it will never happen. Our entire economy is too shortsighted to look at anything else.

 

[Vega]

When are people going to WAKE UP and realise the huge threat China is to the rest of the world. They will stop at nothing to lie, steal and cheat their way to the top.

 

[MV75]

The Chinese government will say "we are taking these allegations very seriously."

Nah, they'll just increase the social score of those that stole for the benefit of mother china.

 

[B00nie]

Bendable screen is going to be a huge flop. I know they claim it won't crease for 100k cycles, but I have yet to see a clear plastic that does not.

Nokia did a bendable flap phone in the late 90s. Even though only the plastic cover of the buttons bended, itt was awkward to use. I would probably research an ultra small hinge and three ultra slim displays folded so that the back would operate like a regular smartphone but you could fold it open to have a double screen.

 

[DukenukemX]

I personally coudln't care for Samsung after the memory price fiasco. Someday I might shed a tear for them.

 

[lostinseganet]

At some point, you have to wonder when everyone would stop dealing with the Mainland Chinese.

That point will come when their cheap labor is not worth the effort anymore.

 

[DukenukemX]

That point will come when their cheap labor is not worth the effort anymore.

Unless the products are made in America, Europe, Canada, and etc then the other countries will be just as likely to steal the tech as well. Especially if China goes around and offers money for tech, cause China won't take it sitting down.

 

[R_Type]

At some point, you have to wonder when everyone would stop dealing with the Mainland Chinese.

I seriously believe we (as in the west) are pretty close to a point where wholesale categories of product imports are restricted by governments and their manufacture by western companies in china decline to next to next to nothing. I strongly believe in the next couple of years china will be viewed by the us, canada and the eu as hostile actors.

I tend to hoover up as much serious world affairs news media as I can, particulary the Economist magazine. There's a general consensus, starting in america and now blossoming in europe, that china has become a figure of enormous distrust and suspicion across national governments and corporations. On this path by the end of trumps presidency (I'm not attempting to say when that'll be) we'll be in a position where the west doesn't invest in anything remotely high end in China and the only high tech stuff we buy from them will be mobile phones, laptops and monitors. No homegrown IT equipment, no homegrown cars, nothing aerospace. China and the chinese brands will come to be a dirty word in the richest half of the world and all because pulling a fast one is/was mandated, standard practice by the rulling party. Hell as it stands today the most advanced country that china can count as a friend is Pakistan and amongst the EU it's Greece, such is the breadth of alienation. Apparently when the trade tariff war begun the Chinese approached European governments to attempt to build a coalition of support against the US' actions but found a chorus of voices against existing chinese trade practices.

I'd like to add I'm British, living in Britain and I have no axe to grind one way or the other for/against Donald Trump.

 

[Laowai]

I seriously believe we (as in the west) are pretty close to a point where wholesale categories of product imports are restricted by governments and their manufacture by western companies in china decline to next to next to nothing. I strongly believe in the next couple of years china will be viewed by the us, canada and the eu as hostile actors.

I tend to hoover up as much serious world affairs news media as I can, particulary the Economist magazine. There's a general consensus, starting in america and now blossoming in europe, that china has become a figure of enormous distrust and suspicion across national governments and corporations. On this path by the end of trumps presidency (I'm not attempting to say when that'll be) we'll be in a position where the west doesn't invest in anything remotely high end in China and the only high tech stuff we buy from them will be mobile phones, laptops and monitors. No homegrown IT equipment, no homegrown cars, nothing aerospace. China and the chinese brands will come to be a dirty word in the richest half of the world and all because pulling a fast one is/was mandated, standard practice by the rulling party. Hell as it stands today the most advanced country that china can count as a friend is Pakistan and amongst the EU it's Greece, such is the breadth of alienation. Apparently when the trade tariff war begun the Chinese approached European governments to attempt to build a coalition of support against the US' actions but found a chorus of voices against existing chinese trade practices.

I'd like to add I'm British, living in Britain and I have no axe to grind one way or the other for/against Donald Trump.

We'll see. I hope you're right.
I imagine a more likely scenario is that Chinese companies will begin breaking into the western auto market. Likely Canada first.
It's difficult for politicians to say no to jobs and money....even if the CPC has been since its inception and always will be a hostile nation.

FYI - Almost all Chinese brands are already 'dirty words' in China. People pay out the ass here to get imported goods even when 'comparable' products are made by Chinese companies and readily available. Imported anything is desired. Baby forumla/vaccines/all medicine outside the purview of TCM witchdoctors/cosmetics/clothing/cars/watches/pens/food/fucking everything. General rule of thumb is...if you're using Chinese goods in China, you're poor.

 

[cdr_74_premium]

Hahaha, it’s about time Samsung learned the old adage, “what goes around, comes around.”

Can’t say I’m sorry for them.

But not only that, but this should be a reminder to all, that you do business with 3rd world countries with no ethics, and tonnes more money and religion than sense, then don’t be surprised if they bite your hand while your feeding them.

Oh come on, you're not feeding anyone out of charity. It's just that they are getting the steal of a deal that the first world folks thought they were getting.

It's about the division of the damn pie. It was all fine and dandy when you thought you were paying for the crumbs and getting the bulk of it. Now, you realize you're paying for the whole of it and getting the crumbs. It was never about being fair, it was only about making sure that the nice part of the deal was being seized by

We'll see. I hope you're right.
I imagine a more likely scenario is that Chinese companies will begin breaking into the western auto market. Likely Canada first.
It's difficult for politicians to say no to jobs and money....even if the CPC has been since its inception and always will be a hostile nation.

FYI - Almost all Chinese brands are already 'dirty words' in China. People pay out the ass here to get imported goods even when 'comparable' products are made by Chinese companies and readily available. Imported anything is desired. Baby forumla/vaccines/all medicine outside the purview of TCM witchdoctors/cosmetics/clothing/cars/watches/pens/food/fucking everything. General rule of thumb is...if you're using Chinese goods in China, you're poor.

I first thought they would dominate the South American market with their cars and motorcycles. They were cheap and sold very well until everybody realized that they were better off paying for quality. Many Chinese brands already left, if not all of them.

And that's in countries where cars are insanely expensive in general, and labour is comparatively cheap. So it would make sense to buy a less reliable product and repair it more often... up to a point, of course. The Chinese stuff managed to cross that point real fast. And that's considering most stuff sold by American/European brands in South America are low-quality version of their first world counterparts.

 

[Etherton]

China Uncensored is a pretty good YouTube channel about what is going on. Sometimes they're a bit much but overall really good.

 

[Chris_B]

Ah China, the photocopying\thieving capital of the world.

 

[Laowai]

I first thought they would dominate the South American market with their cars and motorcycles. They were cheap and sold very well until everybody realized that they were better off paying for quality. Many Chinese brands already left, if not all of them.

Are you sure about that?

 

[cdr_74_premium]

Are you sure about that?

Yes, I pretty much am.

They were making massive inroads from 2010 onwards IIRC. They were selling a lot more before 2016, which was a disaster for everyone, but especially so for the Chinese as the resale value for those vehicles were awful, making whoever was in the market at that time period wary of them. 2017 and 2018 are a trajectory of recovery for whoever managed to stay there, as many just packed up and left.

Latin American market is a lot different than North America. We're used to instability, so we tend to jump into whatever seem like a good deal a lot more easily. That said, the economic conditions change really fast, and that means the "weeding out" of manufacturers happens more often than one used to a stable economy would expect.

 

[Laowai]

Yes, I pretty much am.

They were making massive inroads from 2010 onwards IIRC. They were selling a lot more before 2016, which was a disaster for everyone, but especially so for the Chinese as the resale value for those vehicles were awful, making whoever was in the market at that time period wary of them. 2017 and 2018 are a trajectory of recovery for whoever managed to stay there, as many just packed up and left.

Latin American market is a lot different than North America. We're used to instability, so we tend to jump into whatever seem like a good deal a lot more easily. That said, the economic conditions change really fast, and that means the "weeding out" of manufacturers happens more often than one used to a stable economy would expect.

OK. but the article I linked to shows severals Chinese brands in the top 25 for Latin America, most with very high year-over-year gains. Combined, they're selling more than big names like Mercedes, Audi, or BMW. You may be right that many Chinese auto manufacturers have left, there are an obscene number of them. Nearly 100 iirc. No idea how many entered the Latin American market nor how many remain though.

As much as I'd like the opposite to be true, it seems some Chinese auto manufacturers are doing better than OK in Latin America.

 

[RealBeast]

Okay, so here's the plan.

We set up an "industrial zone" in northern Mexico, build *UGE* factories that employ slave (like caravan people) labor, and Apple makes all their iPhones there instead of using Foxconn.

Oh, and make all the buildings one story to reduce jumpers.

That'll really fuck over China.

 

[Etherton]

^ and, we could build them in a wall design along the entire border without northern fire escapes. Two birds, one stone.

 

[Stimpy88]

Ah China, the photocopying\thieving capital of the world.

Ironic that Samsung was the previous owner of that dubious crown.

 

[Chris_B]

Ironic that Samsung was the previous owner of that dubious crown.

Samsung couldn't begin to compete with the level of outright fuckery that the Chinese are masters of .

 

[Stimpy88]

Samsung couldn't begin to compete with the level of outright fuckery that the Chinese are masters of .

Your right, but Samsung was the first large non-US/EU company to openly copy other companies products, even so far as to go in to partnerships with brands like Bang & Olufsen, then slowly start releasing inferior products made in almost exactly the same style and design... Samsung taught many European electronics companies to be careful working with the devil.

Nowadays of course, the Chinese put them to shame, and again, Western companies have slowly had to learn hard lessons in their greedy rush for cheap manufacturing, but many are still yet to learn.

 

[cdr_74_premium]

OK. but the article I linked to shows severals Chinese brands in the top 25 for Latin America, most with very high year-over-year gains. Combined, they're selling more than big names like Mercedes, Audi, or BMW.\

It's LATIN AMERICA. Of course they are. I would be shocked if they weren't.

Those brands are not a common sight there at all. I know it's not a cheap car anywhere in the world, but there it's firmly into the "you're obscenely rich!" territory.

You may be right that many Chinese auto manufacturers have left, there are an obscene number of them. Nearly 100 iirc. No idea how many entered the Latin American market nor how many remain though

I recall around 10+. I don't know exactly how many are left, but a lot of them did leave.

As much as I'd like the opposite to be true, it seems some Chinese auto manufacturers are doing better than OK in Latin America.

My point isn't saying that they're doing terrible there. The thing is that I honestly thought - and hoped, because the price competition they brought was awesome while it lasted - that their vehicles would be OK. Not good, but OK. Sadly, that was not the case. And again, third world people tend to tolerate/are used to issues a lot more than first world citizens. All they did was reinforce the higher price of the established brands as the price you'd have to pay for quality.

They might have improved, I have no idea, as I've been out of there for a couple of years by now.

 

[commissioneranthony]

For electronics, no one else can manufacture like they can now. Plus, you can source all the components locally since they make everything else. At work, we actually get higher quality on the PCBAs produced and assembled in China than our US fab that we use for prototypes. I am sure Samsung would lose more money manufacturing elsewhere than someone getting a head start on bendable screens. As soon as the phones are released they would be reverse engineered anyway.

100% correct on this. Just ordered some boards from china. Was 1/5th of cost of a USA based board fab and came in ~1/4 the time. Honestly, it's not the cost that's the saddest part, it's the time. Try to get something from advanced circuits or oshpark within a week. It's not even possible. Like come on son.

 

[BloodyIron]

Chinese cost of labour has drastically increased to the point where other countries is actually cheaper to manufacture in. Especially if ONE HUNDRED SIXTY MILLION DOLLAR TECH IS BEING STOLEN. Companies aren't going to continue to do business in countries where their R&D is just ripped off, it doesn't make any business sense whatsoever. The very thing they're working hard on to stand out and it just gets yanked out from them, fuck that.

Okay...finish your thought process please. Whereabouts will Samsung manufacture its products once it has boycotted China? Thailand? Taiwan? Korea? Canada? US? Brazil? Which of these countries has the ultra low wage labor, technology and expertise to manufacture all their products? Taiwan might be the only alternative though the ultra low wages don't exist there.

 

[Deathroned]

IMHO, we need to get together with our traditonal allies, the free democracies of the world and put on a United front, go all Cuba/Iran style complete embargo on China, and penalize anyone in the world who keeps doing business with them, until they reverde course and agree to respect IP rights.

Yes, this would ptobably result in a short term serious market downturn, but we can't just keep letting them take whatever they want, secure governemnt financing and use it to dump products on the international markets driving the businesses that invented the technology out of business, like they did with solar panels, ultimately keeping the market mostly to themselves.

They could just keep doing this until we have nothing left. Someone needs to be willing to draw a line in the sand.

but westerners don't mind bombing you and taking your countries Natural Resources in the name of good old American Freedom LMAO, there's no such thing as a democracy.

 

[Deathroned]

Hahaha, it’s about time Samsung learned the old adage, “what goes around, comes around.”

Can’t say I’m sorry for them.

But not only that, but this should be a reminder to all, that you do business with 3rd world countries with no ethics, and tonnes more money and religion than sense, then don’t be surprised if they bite your hand while your feeding them.

As if Western Countries have Ethics, they caused slave labour in Libya now they are pretending it doesn't exist, they lie to their voters, fees them false information I can bet you that a lot of Westerners don't know that USA, UK, Vatican, Israel created and continue to fund Isis, All Qaeda etc.