Samsung intros IPS competitor: PLS

[CrypticInsight]

... by now everyone still playing games such as Diablo & Starcraft wich are VERY VERY OLD, should be ashamed... I diabolish the thought alone of starting up that game ever again... me as a gamer, I always want better graphics and better sound so there's no way I'm gona crawl back into that ancient gutter.

I love reading stuff like this cuz it reminds me how easy it is to design a game for someone that wants flashy graphics and some justification for all the money they spend on new gear. if u haven't taken a gaming history class, u should. u'll discover how much b.s. is actually created these days (thanks to the loving military and their budget). where innovative design used to be the driving force in the gaming industry, now it's special effects and things that go boom. imo, if the equipment can support a wider range of use (like a scaler), they're designing for wider range of play. this is a good thing.

 

[SXTC]

I love reading stuff like this cuz it reminds me how easy it is to design a game for someone that wants flashy graphics and some justification for all the money they spend on new gear. if u haven't taken a gaming history class, u should. u'll discover how much b.s. is actually created these days (thanks to the loving military and their budget). where innovative design used to be the driving force in the gaming industry, now it's special effects and things that go boom. imo, if the equipment can support a wider range of use (like a scaler), they're designing for wider range of play. this is a good thing.

Just because you believe you can lecture this TEACHER of games doesn't mean they haven't made a lot of progress compared to 10 years ago.
Not only have the games become more realistic, there are now a lot more possibilties in games then before. The rest what you describe is how business works, nothing comes for free and just because you buy a VGA card doesn't mean you'll get the rest for free wich is quite logical I am well aware of the military being responsible for most inventions on the market, and maybe that is why we should thank them for doing something fruitfull XD

Are there even any monitors that use RGB LED lighting? Thought it was so expensive it was only worth putting on the largest (46+) high end TV's?

What is RGB LED lighting?

 

[quantum112]

Wholeheartedly agree. I've been on PC games since 1998 (and I know people who have been playing a LOT longer than I have) and am disgusted by the stuff that comes out today. There has been a steady decline in the quality of PC games since 2006 or so. The titles that come out today are so shallow and generic that I wouldn't even steal them, let alone buy them. The last good PC game that I played was STALKER: Call of Pripyat, and Mass Effect 2. ME2 had a good story and STALKER has an excellent atmosphere.
I used to be an avid gamer who stayed up to date with hardware, but my last gaming configuration was bought in 2008, and likely will be the last. There is just no incentive to buy new hardware, not if games stay the way they are now. The only things to look forward to this year are Deus Ex 2, Duke Nukem, ME3, and the new Elder Scrolls. Let's hope at least 1 out of those 4 doesn't succumb to the traits of the console generation.

But anyway, this is offtopic. Sorry.

 

[Ephesos]

Just because you believe you can lecture this TEACHER of games doesn't mean they haven't made a lot of progress compared to 10 years ago.
Not only have the games become more realistic, there are now a lot more possibilties in games then before. The rest what you describe is how business works, nothing comes for free and just because you buy a VGA card doesn't mean you'll get the rest for free wich is quite logical I am well aware of the military being responsible for most inventions on the market, and maybe that is why we should thank them for doing something fruitfull

You take the view of someone who considers graphics as paramount to enjoying a pc game, i prefer things such as story, consistency regarding the game lore, carefully designed gameplay. Graphic realism comes somewhere near the last place. A beautifully drawn 2d environment could top the realism of a game like crysis, at least for me .

 

[Ashok0]

I just beat Deus Ex for the first time this year. It shipped 11 years ago and is literally one of the best FPS games I've ever played in my life. Seriously, it makes Crysis 2, Killzone 3, and Halo 3 look like a complete joke.

 

[Weenis]

I just beat Deus Ex for the first time this year. It shipped 11 years ago and is literally one of the best FPS games I've ever played in my life. Seriously, it makes Crysis 2, Killzone 3, and Halo 3 look like a complete joke.

I am actually going to go back and play Deus Ex I think, and maybe truck through the second one (never played it originally because of bugs). I played the crysis 2 demo and just kind of shook my head.

People who don't realize story is important are just sitting there with their eyes glossed over looking at shiny things. Eventually they'll stop blowing 60$ on the same game with a few texture upgrades.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL about pushing graphics hard and fast... but games mostly these days lack story and depth.

I blame shit like xbox gamerscore and DLC. People are getting used to getting milked

 

[NCX]

The irony is that the most popular (console) games (COD and Halo+Wii games) have the worst graphics (sub 720p), except for Killzone and Uncharted. Crysis 2 on consoles would have been visually impressive in 08.

Only the retards (including most reviewers) who sit 10+ feet from their TV's away think these games look good.

A scaler isn't needed, just need the 4:3 mode like many Samsung/LG monitors all ready come with or DDC/CI. Those who want one would probably regret it when dealing with 30ms+ of lag...

 

[sblantipodi]

Quato uses the RGB LED IPS panel in the IP240 LED Excellence. Still, I do wonder why Eizo and NEC elected for the CCFL panel over the more uniform and wider gamut LED unit.

If you talk about white RGB, white led isn't isn't wider gamut at all, if you
talk about RGB LED you should raise you budget compared to your cheap EV monitor

 

[Whoisthisreally]

If you talk about white RGB, white led isn't isn't wider gamut at all, if you
talk about RGB LED you should raise you budget compared to your cheap EV monitor

The EV is ~98% sRGB CCFL, and in Australia it cost as much as a U2711 at the time, thank you very much.

 

[sblantipodi]

The EV is ~98% sRGB CCFL, and in Australia it cost as much as a U2711 at the time, thank you very much.

this does not means that it isn't a cheap monitor when compared to professional monitors or to RGB LED Monitors.

 

[Whoisthisreally]

this does not means that it isn't a cheap monitor when compared to professional monitors or to RGB LED Monitors.

I know that. Other than that, I don't know what you are trying to say.

 

[sblantipodi]

I know that. Other than that, I don't know what you are trying to say.

You saied that you would like that your Eizo monitor would be an RGB LED monitor and I saied you that also if Eizo will decide to use RGB LED on their monitors, the cheap segment will not be upgraded with RGB LED backlit.

 

[Whoisthisreally]

You saied that you would like that your Eizo monitor would be an RGB LED monitor and I saied you that also if Eizo will decide to use RGB LED on their monitors, the cheap segment will not be upgraded with RGB LED backlit.

Oh, I was referring to the CG243/5 and the PA241W, considering the Quato unit.

 

[sblantipodi]

Oh, I was referring to the CG243/5 and the PA241W, considering the Quato unit.

I'm sorry I don't catched it.

 

[SXTC]

Wholeheartedly agree. I've been on PC games since 1998 (and I know people who have been playing a LOT longer than I have) and am disgusted by the stuff that comes out today. There has been a steady decline in the quality of PC games since 2006 or so. The titles that come out today are so shallow and generic that I wouldn't even steal them, let alone buy them. The last good PC game that I played was STALKER: Call of Pripyat, and Mass Effect 2. ME2 had a good story and STALKER has an excellent atmosphere.
I used to be an avid gamer who stayed up to date with hardware, but my last gaming configuration was bought in 2008, and likely will be the last. There is just no incentive to buy new hardware, not if games stay the way they are now. The only things to look forward to this year are Deus Ex 2, Duke Nukem, ME3, and the new Elder Scrolls. Let's hope at least 1 out of those 4 doesn't succumb to the traits of the console generation.

But anyway, this is offtopic. Sorry.

This problem is a question of taste mate. Put it this way, me for example.
I have a vivid imagination and prefer realism. I would have loved becomming a game coder but there wasn't one of those schools around anyway (after I graduated they founded one but I'm not gona start over). And even then no one in my family has the money to go to pay for such education wich is mainly why you get fcked up games. Spoiled (rich) people get the positions that earn much, but the people that have a passion (and the urge to make something beautifull) are no longer given a chance on the market, because you'd have to be rich to get there... If someone would make a game of my mind, all of you gamers would end up having a wet daydream and I'm not kidding (and I've got idea's for at least 10 nice types of games). And ofcourse schools keep going more expensive wich is why people with taste do not get a chance (picture 5 out of 100 people having taste, and those 5 are all poor....get my point?). (grr I wish someone would pay for my ideas lol)

this does not means that it isn't a cheap monitor when compared to professional monitors or to RGB LED Monitors.

Are those fast in response?

 

[wagoo]

One of the things I like about PC gaming is that you can come back and try old games on newer hardware.. and wow suddenly everything is higher resolution, and you can pump up the settings to max and to enjoy the experience once more. Or discover old classics like Deus Ex that may have passed you by.

This is why I agree with games completely destroying current hardware on fully maxed out "insane" settings, like Crysis did when it first came out.

Spoiled (rich) people get the positions that earn much, but the people that have a passion (and the urge to make something beautifull) are no longer given a chance on the market, because you'd have to be rich to get there...

I think it's more complicated than that: In the average dev house I wouldn't say the average game coder was vastly well payed, the (often clueless) management and directors above them are in those positions. But even if they have tuned in upper management, the games they work on and some of the directions they take in those games are controlled from higher up by the publishers.

The publishers want one thing: to make as much money as possible, as they are funding the development. Therefore variations on things that made lots of money in the past, sequels and movie cash ins and so on are the order of the day.

It's always been like this to an extent, ever since titles could no longer be developed quickly by one guy, or a small team.. but as games are costing more and more to make these days, and are bigger and bigger financial gambles, then we are seeing less and less risk taking at the top end.

Pretty much in direct contrast to the indie scene lately, which seems to be thriving with innovation.

 

[SXTC]

One of the things I like about PC gaming is that you can come back and try old games on newer hardware.. and wow suddenly everything is higher resolution, and you can pump up the settings to max and to enjoy the experience once more. Or discover old classics like Deus Ex that may have passed you by.

This is why I agree with games completely destroying current hardware on fully maxed out "insane" settings, like Crysis did when it first came out.



I think it's more complicated than that: In the average dev house I wouldn't say the average game coder was vastly well payed, the (often clueless) management and directors above them are in those positions. But even if they have tuned in upper management, the games they work on and some of the directions they take in those games are controlled from higher up by the publishers.

The publishers want one thing: to make as much money as possible, as they are funding the development. Therefore variations on things that made lots of money in the past, sequels and movie cash ins and so on are the order of the day.

It's always been like this to an extent, ever since titles could no longer be developed quickly by one guy, or a small team.. but as games are costing more and more to make these days, and are bigger and bigger financial gambles, then we are seeing less and less risk taking at the top end.

Pretty much in direct contrast to the indie scene lately, which seems to be thriving with innovation.

So basicly what I have to do is find a company that is open to suggestions, make them see the bigger picture and hope they'll use the material... I wonder wich company still listens... (The people from Oblivion once listenened to me but thats not an online game).

Anyway if I got this right, Matte is better then glossy for games due to reflections?

 

[Oled]

So basicly what I have to do is find a company that is open to suggestions, make them see the bigger picture and hope they'll use the material... I wonder wich company still listens... (The people from Oblivion once listenened to me but thats not an online game).

Anyway if I got this right, Matte is better then glossy for games due to reflections?

Matte vs Glossy has really mostly to do with monitor placement.

Dark room = glossy better
Light room = matte better

Personally I prefer matte because it isnt really good for your health to use curtains all the time.

 

[Snowdog]

Matte vs Glossy has really mostly to do with monitor placement.

Dark room = glossy better
Light room = matte better

Nope

Glossy Fan = Glossy better.
Everyone else = Matte better.


Seriously though, with some of these mirror screens you can be sitting in the dark and light from a bright spot of the screen will reflect off your face and show your reflection on a darker part.

You can never be rid of reflections with Glossy screens. Glossy fans just get used to them or even like them as to them see a reflection in black makes black look deeper.

 

[Whoisthisreally]

Are all of these glossy screens just glass or do some of them have an AR chemical coating?

 

[tk-don]

Are all of these glossy screens just glass or do some of them have an AR chemical coating?

There's no glass (and there never has been).
It is a clear coating of the front polarizer. The polarizer is already clear/glossy, but not the least scratch-resistant. I have never heard of a panel with an AR like the blueish/purplish one one used on some of the earlier Triniton monitors (if that's what you meant by AG).


BTW. the "haze" term used by Samsung is the industry's term for how "matte" the surface is. AG/H45%/2H is typical (=anti-glare, 45% haze, scratch resistance equivalent to a 2H pencil.)

 

[Snowdog]

Apple uses Glass for it's glossy screens and it appears to be regular glass with no special AR coating. Most others are just glossy plastic.

 

[tk-don]

The glass surface on ACDs is not part of the panel, but stuck/glued on-top of the panel bezel (actually available as a replacement part). Underneath, a panel with a clear coating is installed.

EDIT: Ah, just realized Whoisitreally said "screens" and not "panels", in that case, then yes there are of course manufactureres offerings screens with glass. ANother one is/was Mermaid computers, and AG-Neovo back in the days. Many of the latest Sony TVs appear to have an all-glass front too.

 

[Snowdog]

The glass surface on ACDs is not part of the panel, but stuck/glued on-top of the panel bezel (actually available as a replacement part). Underneath, a panel with a clear coating is installed.

Duh.

The top layer of the monitor, is where the reflections come from. It doesn't matter if it is technically part of the panel.

 

[Tak Ne]

Is it just me or is the bezel thicker at the bottom than the top?

 

[GuyClinch]

BTW. the "haze" term used by Samsung is the industry's term for how "matte" the surface is. AG/H45%/2H is typical (=anti-glare, 45% haze, scratch resistance equivalent to a 2H pencil.)


So this is good news then right - less anti-glare then the LG IPS right? (Not counting the apple).

 

[Ashok0]

BTW. the "haze" term used by Samsung is the industry's term for how "matte" the surface is. AG/H45%/2H is typical (=anti-glare, 45% haze, scratch resistance equivalent to a 2H pencil.)


So this is good news then right - less anti-glare then the LG IPS right? (Not counting the apple).

As Col. Hans Landa would say... "that's a bingo".

 

[rrahim3]

Assuming military technology is 15 years ahead of the technology given to the public. I believe they are milking the consumer when they could release a 1000hz OLED 30" 2000p monitor that does 3d and holographics and has a women pop out of the screen. Or not.

I'm really interested in this Samsung now.

 

[SXTC]

Assuming military technology is 15 years ahead of the technology given to the public. I believe they are milking the consumer when they could release a 1000hz OLED 30" 2000p monitor that does 3d and holographics and has a women pop out of the screen. Or not.

I'm really interested in this Samsung now.

What do you think the military used for coded messages before the PC was released on the market?
Who do you think had internet years before we had?
What kind of pc do you think is being used to send accurate rockets from far distances (we whine about multiple processing when they have an Uber pc with over 200 processors)?
The military is ALWAYS ahead of us so yes we ARE being milked for our money, it has always been like that and btw seeing as there are allready some 500Hz screens so what makes you think there isn't allready a 2000hz screen with a better technology then OLED?
Just have a daydream about the perfect screen and then just wait a couple of years when the millitary finds a newer technology more appealing because only then will it be available for us.

 

[quantum112]

What do you think the military used for coded messages before the PC was released on the market?
Who do you think had internet years before we had?
What kind of pc do you think is being used to send accurate rockets from far distances (we whine about multiple processing when they have an Uber pc with over 200 processors)?
The military is ALWAYS ahead of us so yes we ARE being milked for our money, it has always been like that and btw seeing as there are allready some 500Hz screens so what makes you think there isn't allready a 2000hz screen with a better technology then OLED?
Just have a daydream about the perfect screen and then just wait a couple of years when the millitary finds a newer technology more appealing because only then will it be available for us.

So that means they still haven't found anything better than FED.

 

[jincuteguy]

So there's still no infos about the pricing and availability for SA850 yet. I doubt this monitor will come out anytime soon, prob Winter.

 

[GuyClinch]

FUD really? about a monitor? It's slated for spring release - so likely May or June.

 

[mutantmagnet]

I do not agree, by now everyone still playing games such as Diablo & Starcraft wich are VERY VERY OLD, should be ashamed (diablo for example was released in 1996).
I personally have never met anyone that plays a game longer then 6 years wich to me is the absolute max (with expansions).

Hello there Mr. Myopia. Websites like Nintendo8.com and C64.com have been increasing their library for a reason. Certain games become classics and are never outdated because of their strong game mechanics which aren't replicated. Starcraft and Broodwar are distinctly different in game mechanics from SC2 just as much SF2 Turbo is very distinct compared to SFIV.

 

[mutantmagnet]

The military is ALWAYS ahead of us so yes we ARE being milked for our money, it has always been like that and btw seeing as there are allready some 500Hz screens so what makes you think there isn't allready a 2000hz screen with a better technology then OLED?
.

We are being milked but not for the reasons you imply. Since military projects take the lion share of our taxes and expenses can be seriously inflated due to the fiscal irresponsibility of too many people in the government is the actual way we are getting milked.

 

[3d_vlk]

Hello folks, it appears that the discussion has gone in very different direction , however, here are fresh new hi-res photos of SA850 that clearly shows :

- display port ( I was wrong earlier )
- brushed alluminium only for bottom edge of front bezel for controls panel, everything else is matte plastic ( pity, I hoped for whole metal casing )
- possibility of adding custom AC>DC supply ( speculating, but would be awesome - eliminating the common noise/buzz/hiss of ac>dc PSUs by placing them somewhere out of hearing range )

Source: http://www.pcpop.com/doc/pic/001917712.html

 

[Walker]

Looks great. I like how the bezel is not only narrow but "shallow" as well. Is that pic really showing a full black screen?

 

[SXTC]

see a greenish shine on it wich is odd for IPS but maybe my eyes are just too sensitive or maybe it's just the picture on the monitor..

 

[3d_vlk]

see a greenish shine on it wich is odd for IPS but maybe my eyes are just too sensitive or maybe it's just the picture on the monitor..

Do you realize that these photos are from exposition? So it is 100% for sure that the pictures shown on these panels won't be accurate by any means, because of lighting conditions of that exposition booth, different ISO whitepoint of photos than your viewing device, etc etc. We need to wait for proper photos from neutral, unbiased environment.

 

[3d_vlk]

Looks great. I like how the bezel is not only narrow but "shallow" as well. Is that pic really showing a full black screen?

If you mean the one in pivot mode, it seems so. But consider that the environment is brightly lit, so, it's not worht of interest, beacuse any crappy screen in such lit environment will have "good blacks".

 

[Walker]

If you mean the one in pivot mode, it seems so. But consider that the environment is brightly lit, so, it's not worht of interest, beacuse any crappy screen in such lit environment will have "good blacks".

Yeah, I was more thinking about the tiny bit of glow present in the upper left corner. It actually looks more like backlight bleed than the typical glow. Either way, looks promising so far.