Samsung intros IPS competitor: PLS

63jax

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The reason for the crappy black levels of today's IPS panels isn't the 1000:1 contrast. IPS has an issue called white glow. Older NEC IPS panels used the A-TW polarizer to greatly improve their black levels by getting rid of this white glow. If PLS uses a similar approach to the A-TW polarizer black levels could be perfect. If it doesn't they won't.

Contrast ratio doesn't take viewing angle effects like the white glow into account at all. It estimates how black your black is at the best viewing position possible - right in front of the display at the center of the screen. And I cannot speak for everyone, but in my opinion my U2711 has great blacks in the center of the screen with its 1000:1 contrast ratio. The only issue is the white glow, it would ruin the blacks even on a display with 3000:1 contrast. You can hope that Samsung has something to fix this issue, but there's no guarantee and no number will be able to tell you the answer, you have to see it with your human eye.

I don't think Samsung will use an polarizer, they already have good blacks with their PVA technology and from what i heard PLS will be a combination of IPS and PVA, taking both of their advantages. I hope the black crush won't be there as for PVA...
 

BDV

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Maybe this will be the one. I love my P-MVA and am yet to find something that has better colors/response outside 1k+ range :(
 

Whoisthisreally

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I don't think Samsung will use an polarizer, they already have good blacks with their PVA technology and from what i heard PLS will be a combination of IPS and PVA, taking both of their advantages. I hope the black crush won't be there as for PVA...

If they don't use polarisers, their product will just be an expensive and inefficient light source.

Secondly, I don't know where you got that "combination of IPS and PVA" from. They simply arent similar: VA directors in off state are aligned vertically whilst in IPS the directors are rubbed during production parallel to the substrate.
 

steal

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Doubtful. If you go to Samsungs Panel spec page, the PLS screens are listed at 1000:1 contrast, the same as IPS panels.

Yes, but most IPS panels certainly don't measure close to 1,000:1, closer to 600-700:1, so anything around 1,000 or a bit higher would be quite nice :)
 

munkle

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I can see this being easily $1200+. New tech and it says the target market is government, professionals, and corporate work. I was hoping around the price of the dell 27" but I highly doubt that now. :(
 

63jax

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If they don't use polarisers, their product will just be an expensive and inefficient light source.

Secondly, I don't know where you got that "combination of IPS and PVA" from. They simply arent similar: VA directors in off state are aligned vertically whilst in IPS the directors are rubbed during production parallel to the substrate.

As the name PLS suggest: Plane to Line Switching.Probably it will have two states of pixel arrangement from the Plane state switching to Line, that's what logics tells us. Just look at how many pixel orientation IPS matrixes has, H-IPS, UH-IPS, S-IPS II, they're all basically the same but with slightly different pixel layout.
But i might be wrong here...
 
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Whoisthisreally

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I can see this being easily $1200+. New tech and it says the target market is government, professionals, and corporate work. I was hoping around the price of the dell 27" but I highly doubt that now. :(

They said that the F2380 was for "Professionals" as well. It doesn't mean anything.
 

Whoisthisreally

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As the name PLS suggest: Plane to Line Switching.Probably it will have two states of pixel arrangement from the Plane state switching to Line, that's what logics tells us. Just look at how many pixel orientation IPS matrixes has, H-IPS, UH-IPS, S-IPS II, they're all basically the same but with slightly different pixel layout.
But i might be wrong here...

In PLS the pixel and common electrode are formed on the same substrate like IPS. Considering this and the fact that is rated for 1000:1 CR implies that it is homogeneously aligned just like IPS.
 

63jax

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In PLS the pixel and common electrode are formed on the same substrate like IPS. Considering this and the fact that is rated for 1000:1 CR implies that it is homogeneously aligned just like IPS.

Anyway, i just hope it's good, because i so wanna change my crap TN Samsung 226bw...
 

Snowdog

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Yes, but most IPS panels certainly don't measure close to 1,000:1, closer to 600-700:1, so anything around 1,000 or a bit higher would be quite nice :)

The naked panel would be 1000:1, the lower value depends on how the contrast is set up, and on how it is calibrated from the factory and for final use. But a number of IPS screens are scoring in the 900's.

This one scores right near 1000:1, which is as good as can be expected for any monitor with that rating:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_ea232wmi.htm

There is no reason to expect the Samsung would best this for contrast.

What we might actually hope to see improved:
1: Lighter AG coating: this seems a certainty
2: Better QA than LG: this seems likely
3: Similar stable viewing angle, with less anomalies like white glow: Unknown.
 
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Suicidal Insanity

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I've been wanting a 27" or 30" for years, and this is the only reason I am not yet buying a dell 2711. Hopefully pricing info comes out soon.
 

alienate

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I can see this being easily $1200+. New tech and it says the target market is government, professionals, and corporate work. I was hoping around the price of the dell 27" but I highly doubt that now. :(

I doubt that, when has Samsung ever sold a $1000+ monitor?
 

sethk

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I think this will come in under $1K street pricing, or at least I hope it does, to keep Dell on its toes.
 

NCX

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Sorry but that's just wrong. What we are calling semi-glossy is nothing else than light anti-glare coating. The MacBook Air uses a different approach with neither AG coating nor glass, but PLS has just a lighter AG coating than LG IPS.

And whether or not a display looks "pixely" isn't determined by the AG coating at all but by pixel density and subpixel structure. I would really appreciate if you guys would stop writing about stuff you don't have any clue of.

With the pixel density of the SA850 and a semi-glossy coating we will see a crisp and wonderful image. If you want to flame this display go for the backlight or something else we don't know anything about yet...

Not flaming the display, just expressing that I was able to notice the pixels on a semi-glossy display with a good pixel pitch from my normal viewing distance compared to a glossy display and a C-PVA display which uses the lightest AG. This was probably the result of the way A-MVA panels pixels are structured combined with the Semi-Gloss coating as all the monitors have the same pixel pitch, which is fine.

I am super excited for these displays. Hopefully they will finally give me an excuse to upgrade from a high contrast, low lag Glossy TN w/o punishing my eyes with medicore contrast, harsh AG and poor QC for the sake of better viewing angles.

No way these are going to be under 1k$, especially if they are good. Seriously who wouldn't pay an extra 200$ for better contrast, QC and screen coating if they were fine with spending 1000$ to begin with?
 
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3d_vlk

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It has been confirmed by a Samsung PR representitive that the SA850 likely uses the same semi-glossy ‘Ultra Clear Panel’ coating as the SA750 and SA950. This should reduce the ‘grainy’ effect that many IPS monitors with aggressive anti-glare coatings produce and should provide a nice ‘compromise’ similar to that of the EW2420. They were unable to confirm any further details at this time.

from article: http://www.pcmonitors.org/news/samsung-pls-plane-to-line-switching-technology-samsung-sa850
 

Drags

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"likely uses" just makes it seem very speculative....doesnt sound like the Samsung PR people have any more detail than guesses anyway
 

Ephesos

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That remains to be seen, odd that display manufacturers don't disclose more information regarding product release dates though. One would think such a disclosure would be beneficial to the manufacturer.
 

Peteman100

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That remains to be seen, odd that display manufacturers don't disclose more information regarding product release dates though. One would think such a disclosure would be beneficial to the manufacturer.

Apple would disagree
 

GuyClinch

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About the only worry I have with this monitor at this point is the possible input lag. Also would be nice if they had a 30 inch version...

I am still deciding between this and the 30 inch HP for my g/f.
 

munkle

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That remains to be seen, odd that display manufacturers don't disclose more information regarding product release dates though. One would think such a disclosure would be beneficial to the manufacturer.

They usually don't reveal dates because people/companies would wait to buy the new stuff and they want to get rid of the old stuff so they just don't say when it's going to get replaced.
 

sblantipodi

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sincerely the Samsung design is really horrible, I hope to see this panels inside other monitors soon.
 

BrePu

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I personally love the design. Better than everything else but the Apple Cinema Display in my opinion.
 

3d_vlk

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Hah, maybe he wants design that is super flashy, crazy shaped, multi-colored with tons of buttons.
 

Walker

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The SA850 looks much nicer than most IPS monitors to me. Simple and sleek design and still "professional" looking. Not flashy with cheap glossy plastic or anything like that. Don't see what's horrible about it.
 

3d_vlk

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Update:

According the official Samsung branch here in Slovakia, after I asked them - when the new S27A850 (PN for SA850) will be at stores, which was presented at Samsung Forum 2011 in Hungary ( Slovakia's neighbour state ), they replied :

We are pleased that You are interested in our new Samsung products.
The new products will be ready at stores around this April, but we don`t know yet, if all of them ( the monitor/tv line for 2011 ) will be also sold at Slovakian market.

So, I assume, that maybe in Hungary, they will have all of the presented monitor/tv 2011 line ready at April. Hope this is true, I wouldn`t mind to come there to buy it :)
 

3d_vlk

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The SA850 looks much nicer than most IPS monitors to me. Simple and sleek design and still "professional" looking. Not flashy with cheap glossy plastic or anything like that. Don't see what's horrible about it.

Amen to that.
 

popowrx

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Update:

According the official Samsung branch here in Slovakia, after I asked them - when the new S27A850 (PN for SA850) will be at stores, which was presented at Samsung Forum 2011 in Hungary ( Slovakia's neighbour state ), they replied :



So, I assume, that maybe in Hungary, they will have all of the presented monitor/tv 2011 line ready at April. Hope this is true, I wouldn`t mind to come there to buy it :)

Sounds good. I'm interested in a 24 inch PLS variant myself as 27inch (And accompanying 2560x1440 res) is probably too rich for my blood.
 

Snowdog

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The SA850 looks much nicer than most IPS monitors to me. Simple and sleek design and still "professional" looking. Not flashy with cheap glossy plastic or anything like that. Don't see what's horrible about it.

Same here. The Samsung has nice functional and professional case. The same kind of minimalism I like about my NEC.

But I guess someone has to be a fan a gaudy/glossy cases with thick shiny bezels. :D
 

alienate

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Hah, maybe he wants design that is super flashy, crazy shaped, multi-colored with tons of buttons.

He probably has his case plastered with flame and lightning glow in the dark decals. Complimented by Vin Diesel posters on the wall.
 

3d_vlk

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He probably has his case plastered with flame and lightning glow in the dark decals. Complimented by Vin Diesel posters on the wall.

Or, he is just too young to appreciate simple, decent and unobtrusive look, that won`t fade with time.
 

Ephesos

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Or he prefers a more business or industrial look, like the eizo or nec monitors :rolleyes:.

Still wishing these things come with ccfl backlight !
 
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