Samsung HDTV's @ 120 Hz

Kelxin

n00b
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
2
Figured I would post this to possibly save someone some time and headaches.

These are my chat logs and experiences with the newer high end Samsung HDTV's and their support department:

November 18th, 2:35 AM
Keith K: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
Visitor: Hello Keith, Will the HU6950 55" SmartTV do either 60Hz native input at 4k or 120hz native input at 1080p?
Keith K: I see that you would like to know the Refresh Rate that the TV supports at different resolutions. Am I correct?
Visitor: Correct, coming from an HDMI windows based PC
Keith K: TV is a display device. It will just display the content sent from the source. If the source sends the picture at 60Hz, it will be displayed at 60Hz. If it sends at 120Hz, it will be displayed at 120Hz.
Visitor: Unless the TV does not support that input frequency, then the TV will go black and say "input out of range" or will completely freak out and only show garbage
Keith K: Yes. You are correct. Anything within the range will be displayed on the TV without any issues.
Visitor: Which is my question, does the HU6950 support an input of 1920x1080@120 Hz or 3840x2160@60 Hz?
Keith K: It supports 3840 x 2160 at 60Hz.
Visitor: Do you know, or can you find out if it also supports 1080p @ 120 Hz or close?
Visitor: I'm a programmer, and program using an HDTV for 10 - 20 hour stretches. The higher refresh rate I can get on a TV, the better it is long term for my eyes and headaches.
Keith K: Could you give me a few minutes while I gather the information for you?
Visitor: Sure thing, I'm going to go smoke and I'll be back in 5 - 10 minutes
Keith K: Sure. Thank you.
Keith K: I appreciate your time and patience.
Keith K: I see that your TV supports only 60Hz with 1920x1080 resolution.
Visitor: Thank you. Is there any Samsung TV that supports 1920x1080@120Hz? Price is not a consideration.
Keith K: Sure. Let me check the model TVs.
Keith K: I see that HU9000, HU8700, HU8550, HU8500 series TVs supports 1920x1080 at 120Hz.
Visitor: Excellent! You've been the first person to give direct recommendations. I will look at those models and purchase one immediately.
Keith K: Sure. Thank you for choosing Samsung.
Keith K: I just wanted to make you aware of some really good support pages that are available to our customers.
Samsung SPOT (Smart Personal Online Training) offers real-time Samsung support with a product expert through live video chat. visit us at <a href="http://helpouts.google.com/+SamsungUSA"_black">Samsung SPOT Our hours of operation(currently) are: Monday to Friday / 10am to 7pm EDT.
If you are looking for more details on the functionality of a product or would like to find answers to some of the questions, visit us at SamsungSimulator for an interactive review of some of our Samsung products.
Keith K: Is there anything else I can assist you with?
Visitor: That is everything I was looking for. Thank you again for your time.
Keith K: Thanks for chatting with Samsung Support. If you have a minute, please click on the blue “X close” button to receive the transcript of your chat and fill out a brief survey to help us serve you better.
Follow Samsung Service on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.


November 18th 9:57 PM

Alan S: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
Visitor: Hello Alan, I bought a 55" HDTV on the recommendation from a chat with someone last night, and am unable to get it to display at 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz. If you would like, I can paste the conversation with the person from last night
Alan S: I understand that you're facing an issue getting 1080p resolution on your TV.
Alan S: What is the complete model number of the TV?
Alan S: You can find it on the back/rear panel. You can also find it by pressing Menu>>Support>>Contact Samsung on the TV's remote.
Visitor: It works at 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz
Visitor: let me look real quick
Alan S: Please go ahead.
Visitor: UN55HU8550 software version T-NT14UAKUC-1052.0
Visitor: from the conversation last night: Keith K: I see that HU9000, HU8700, HU8550, HU8500 series TVs supports 1920x1080 at 120Hz.
Visitor: It works at 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz, and 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz but when I put the video settings at 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz the TV says unsupported format
Alan S: Does this happen on all inputs (like DVD and cable box)?
Visitor: This TV is only attached to one device which is a PC (I don't watch DVD's or TV)
Visitor: I have not tried plugging it into any other HDMI ports besides port 1. (They're specified as all HDMI 2.0 so I thought they'd all be the same)
Visitor: Also I don't believe any other devices besides PC's support refresh rate outputs above 60 Hz
Visitor: The Conversation ID from last night is LTK1125602324227X if you would like to reference it.
Alan S: Thank you for providing me with the chat id.
Alan S: Could you give me a few minutes while I check the information for you?
Visitor: Sure thing
Alan S: Thank you.
Alan S: I appreciate your time and patience.
Alan S: I've double checked our resources and I see that this TV supports 120Hz refresh rate.
Alan S: J
Alan S: Do you have the same issue when you connect any other input sources such as DVD player, VCR, Satellite, Cable box, Xbox, PS3, etc to your TV?
Visitor: Visitor: This TV is only attached to one device which is a PC (I don't watch DVD's or TV)
Visitor: Visitor: Also I don't believe any other devices besides PC's support refresh rate outputs above 60 Hz
Alan S: As the TV is a display device, it will only display and emanate audio that is being sent to it by the external device connected to it.
Alan S: The resolution displayed on the TV is the resolution of the external device connected to it.
Alan S: You can find this information by pressing the INFO button on the TV's remote to find the resolution of each device connected to the TV.
Visitor: The device that is currently connected to it is the same PC, which I currently have set to 1920x1080p @ 60 Hz and it is working fine, but again will not function at 120 Hz, it says the resolution is not supported
Visitor: It works at 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz, so I know its not a cable or bandwidth issue also.
Alan S: This TV supports 3840x2160 @120p.
Alan S: For testing purpose, we can try connecting a different PC to the same port on the TV.
Alan S: If the issue persists with a different PC also the TV has to be serviced.
Visitor: I just bought the TV 5 hours ago....
Visitor: Everything else works on the TV, it just won't go up to the 120Hz native input
Visitor: as far as "has to be serviced" is that something that Samsung would send a tech to my house?
Alan S: Yes, the TV will be repaired at your place if the issue persists even after performing the steps.
Visitor: I have plugged in my wife's computer with the same symptoms.
Alan S: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Visitor: Is there a firmware update available for this TV?
Alan S: I will forward the issue to the appropriate department on your behalf.
Alan S: Please provide me with the below details:
Alan S: Full Name:
Alan S: Home Phone number:
Alan S: Cell or Mobile number:
Alan S: Office and or fax number:
Alan S: Email address:
Alan S: Street address(Cannot be a PO box number):
Alan S: City, State and Zip code:
Alan S: Alternate Number :
Alan S: Model Number :
Alan S: Serial Number :

Alan S: However, if you wish you can try updating the firmware on your TV by following the steps below.
Alan S: Press Menu>>Support>>Software upgrade>>Update now>>By Online.
Visitor: Model: UN55HU8550F Serial number: 02FU3CAFA0734K Version No TH02 Model Code: UN55HU8550FXZA
Visitor: Yep, already did the software update with no change, didn't know if there was a lower level firmware besides that
Alan S: You will be contacted by the appropriate department within 2 business days via email to update you about the issue.
Visitor: Ok, thank you.
Alan S: You're welcome.
Alan S: You will be receiving a confirmation email about the same.
Alan S: I just wanted to make you aware of some really good support pages that are available to our customers.
Samsung SPOT (Smart Personal Online Training) offers real-time Samsung support with a product expert through live video chat. visit us at <a href="http://helpouts.google.com/+SamsungUSA"_black">Samsung SPOT Our hours of operation(currently) are: Monday to Friday / 10am to 7pm EDT.
If you are looking for more details on the functionality of a product or would like to find answers to some of the questions, visit us at SamsungSimulator for an interactive review of some of our Samsung products.
Alan S: Can I help you with anything else?
Visitor: Nope, just trying to get this TV to do what it's supposed to. Thank you, and I look forward to the contact with the upper support.

November 22nd 6:51 AM

Smith M: Hi, thank you for reaching out to Samsung technical support. How may I assist you?
Visitor: Hello, I put in a ticket several days ago in chat and have heard nothing back about the issue, on the 18th in chat ID LTK1125602333975X I was told I would hear something back in 2 days.
Smith M: I can understand your concern.
Smith M: Could you please hold for few minutes while I go through your previous chat?
Visitor: If I don't get the issue resolved this morning, I will be returning the TV in 6 hours.
Visitor: Sure thing.
Smith M: Thank you.
Smith M: I appreciate your time and patience.
Smith M: I understand that you are getting the resolutions message as 3840x2160@ 60 Hz instead of 120Hz on the TV when you connect a PC to it. Is that correct?
Visitor: I am able to set the TV to 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz and 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz, but am unable to set the TV to 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz, it tells me that the resolution is unsupported when I do.
Visitor: I need 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz for programming to reduce flicker.
Smith M: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Smith M: I would like to inform that there is no settings on the TV to set the Resolution on the TV. Your TV supports the default resolution 3840x2160 @120P.
Visitor: I am using a windows PC to set the resolution. That is the only device attached to the TV which allows me to set the resolution and refresh rate manually.
Smith M: The resolution of the TV depends on the input device connected to the TV. If the input device sends the resolution of 1920x1080 @ 120Hz resolution, the TV will display the resolution.
Visitor: I have set the PC to 1920x1080 @ 120 hz and the TV goes black and says the resolution is not supported
Visitor: but when the PC is set to 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz or 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz I can see everything fine.
Visitor: I have also been able to set the PC into full 3d Mode with Nvidia 3D vision and it works fine there, it just will not go into full 1080p @ 120 Hz, which is the reason why I bought the TV (A samsung rep recommended this TV model specifically for that feature)
Smith M: It indicates that your PC supports 60Hz refresh rate.
Visitor: with a different monitor, I have had it set to 1920x1080 @ 120hz just fine, it was just a 23" monitor which is too small for my needs.
Smith M: What is the operating system installed in your PC?
Visitor: I also had an LG monitor that was a 55" set to 1080p @ 120 Hz, just the TV sucked and half the screen had a pink glow at all times.
Visitor: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Visitor: Chat ID LTK1125602324227X Keith K said: Keith K: I see that HU9000, HU8700, HU8550, HU8500 series TVs supports 1920x1080 at 120Hz.
Visitor: Which is why I bought this TV.
Smith M: Yes, the TV supports 1920x1080 at 120Hz.
Visitor: Whenever I set it to that resolution, the TV says that its unsupported. I was told the ticket would be escalated and that I would receive an e-mail within 2 business days, which has already passed.
Smith M: Yes, I see that the ticket has been already created and forwarded to the appropriate department. I will update the ticket with the higher priority so that you will be contacted within 1 business days.
Smith M: I apologize for the inconvenience.
Visitor: Too much time has already passed, and Samsung has not fulfilled their original promise. Waiting "1 business days" would mean through Monday, which I would have to wait the entire weekend. I have already waited half a week to resolve something that should have been simple.
Smith M: I can understand your concern from your standpoint. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Visitor: If I click test, the screen goes black and it says resolution unsupported.
Smith M: Please check if there is a firmware upgrade for the TV by pressing Menu>>Support>>Software Update>>Online/Update Now.
Visitor: did that already.
Visitor: 3 days ago, on the newest software available.
Smith M: Thank you for confirming.
Visitor: i will do it now again, just to make sure.
Smith M: Sure, please go ahead.
Visitor: No new updates available
Visitor: I have verified the correct 60 Hz framerates at 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz, so HDMI 2.0 is fully enabled (it wouldn't do that resolution and refresh rate if it was just HDMI 1.4)
Smith M: Yes, you are correct. Just to confirm, to which port on the TV you have connected the PC with the HDMI cable?
Visitor: HDMI 1
Visitor: on this model TV, all of the hdmi ports are supposed to be HDMI 2.0 though
Smith M: Yes, you are correct. For testing purpose, please connect the PC to the HDMI IN 2(DVI) port which is specifically use for connecting the PC to the TV and see if the issue is same.
Visitor: ok, I'll do that now.
Smith M: Sure, please go ahead.
Visitor: I attached it to HDMI 2, tested 1920x1080p @ 120hz same message, renamed the input to PC (for full resolution support) and tested again with the same message, resolution not supported
Smith M: Let me check the information for you.
Visitor: So from the three pictures, you can see I'm setting it to the correct resolution, setting the correct inputs, but getting an unsupported message
Smith M: Please connect any other source to the TV which supports the same resolution and see if the issue is same.
Visitor: There are no other "sources" that support 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz besides a PC, and I've already tested with mine and my wife's pc with the same results.
Smith M: I appreciate all your attempts.
Smith M: I I have double checked the information for you.
Smith M: Samsung TVs only accept a 60Hz refresh from the PC source.
Visitor: And there isn't a single samsung tv then that supports 120hz?
Smith M: The native resolution of the UHD TV model UN55HU8550 is 3840 x 2160@120Hz and it will display the this format resolution within the TV content.
Smith M: If the PC is connected to the TV, it supports only 60Hz refresh rate.
Visitor: but its upscaling its resolution to 120hz, since it doesn't take a native 120hz input signal.
Smith M: The optimal resolution for computers connected to the TV via an HDMI cable is 1920 x 1080 with the 60Hz refresh rate.
Smith M: I relate to what you have said as a consumer.
Smith M: The refresh of the TV is 120Hz and it will display the picture content in this format internally within the TV.
Visitor: ok, well I guess that answers it and shows that this entire thing has been a complete waste of time at the recommendation from a Samsung representative. I only bought this tv to reduce flicker while programming as I already had a 55" that does 1080p just fine @ 60 hz, which means I need to pack this TV back up and return it. I appreciate your time, but don't appreciate the original recommendation for the lack of knowledge on the original Samsung tech that recommended the TV


Hopefully this helps someone not make the same mistake.
 

XoR

Gawd
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
834
as someone who seek TV for programming you should not buy 4K monitor and use it at 1080p but buy 1080p display with RGB subpixel layout and 4:4:4 support and ability to disable all post-processing. 1080p cannot be scaled properly to 4K no matter what your 'common sense' tells you.

Also LCD flickering have nothing to do with input refresh rate. Those are LCD panels for godsake, not some old CRT tubes. If LCD flicker at all it is due to PWM flickering and it have nothing to do with refresh rate ...

lastly: support never know anything that is not in manual and even if they knew they cannot tell you that if it is not written in manual because their policy forbid saying anything that is outside those manuals. So save your time and never contact support again for any information
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
601
If you are trying to minimize flicker on a edge lit TV you'll have to turn off any processing that "improves" black levels, turn up the backlight to 100%, and turn off any local dimming as well. Also make sure you have RGB set to 0-255 if you have a nvidia card.
 

dderidex

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2001
Messages
6,313
Something in the conversation you posted brought to mind another finding I'd seen regarding the Samsung TV configs.

Apparently, when you "rename" the HDMI post, it actually reconfigures it pretty sweepingly.

Perhaps the issue is just the "PC" HDMI configuration? I've certainly noticed that changing to any of the others really...weirds out the display. But maybe that's something that could be corrected via updating the timing settings in the display driver?

Dunno, just seems like if the TV supports 120hz via *any* import stream, it should be pretty trivial to get a PC to work with it.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
1,622
I would not have believed them that the TV will take 1920x1080@120Hz. AFAIK only the seiki and vizio P series are capable of doing this.
 

xIps

n00b
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
63
Funny, sad, and to be expected. CS people know nothing about tech. Their usage of "120p" and "3840x2160x120Hz" is indicative. I'm actually surprised they know what "refresh rate" is, I thought they'd only be familiar with "Clear Motion 960" and such. :) For your next screen just ask in the forums.

I think official 120Hz on TVs is maybe just starting to happen now, even though I'm actually not sure if HDMI officially supports it. Unofficially, some TVs may be "overclockable".

According to this: http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/
the Seiki SE50UY04 supports 120Hz, but Amazon calls it "discontinued".
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
1,622
Funny, sad, and to be expected. CS people know nothing about tech. Their usage of "120p" and "3840x2160x120Hz" is indicative. I'm actually surprised they know what "refresh rate" is, I thought they'd only be familiar with "Clear Motion 960" and such. :) For your next screen just ask in the forums.

I think official 120Hz on TVs is maybe just starting to happen now, even though I'm actually not sure if HDMI officially supports it. Unofficially, some TVs may be "overclockable".

According to this: http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/
the Seiki SE50UY04 supports 120Hz, but Amazon calls it "discontinued".

Like I mentioned the only TV's that can do 120Hz without over-clocking are the 50/39 inch seiki 4k and the vizio 4k p series (both can only do 120Hz @ 1080p). The 120Hz mode is within HDMI 1.4 spec so and even HDMI 1.3 bandwidth is speced to be capable of 120Hz (but the mode is not part of the spec) so it really just comes down to hardware. On amlost any 1080p TV this will be effectively overclocking the panel though. The vizio is spec'd for 120hz @1080p and also the seiki is not being over-clocked either because 4k@30Hz = 297 Mhz pixel clock and the 120Hz @ 1080p is also 297 Mhz pixel clock (they are equal bandwidth).
 
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