Samsung F2380 vs F2380mx

NCX said:
Hard to make a lot sense of any of those once translated. I didn't see anything about black crush only praise about everything except the response time from both sites.

Not sure how the PC inside guy came up with such different results, I'm also pretty sure neither display is calibrated...

http://cfs14.tistory.com/original/8/tistory/2010/03/06/12/54/4b91d2004481d

Image is taken from "Out of Africa," played back via Media Player Classic on PC. The MX shot is a second later due MPC displaying a black screen when windows are dragged (and I didnt feel like spending any more time).

Acer G245H (TN)
acer_.jpg



Samsung F2380MX
samsung_.jpg


This constant talk of black crush is getting stupid (once again). I posted the BasICColor gamma results allready which showed the gamma result was 2.2 (2.15 on the original). If one thinks that viewing angles are more important than head on PQ by majorly sacrificing PQ that's fine, it's an opinion that I can live with, but disagree with 1000000000x Infinity.
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I resized the pics to 50%, It makes it easier to compare the differences IMO, In this particular comparison the Acer looks nicer overall, especially when I look at the details and shadows on her hat, also the curtain on the window to the left is suffering from white crush on the Samsung (loss of detail), but all of this could be related to the camera as well especially if you changed any settings on the camera between shots (which you shouldn't do for the sake of accuracy and fair comparison).
 
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Baghdadii said:
OH. MY. GOD.

What an amazing monitor. Just picked it up today and I've only used it with my 360 playing NHL 10 and SC: Conviction but I can already tell that I will be using this for a long time.

THE BLACKS ARE PERFECT. They make a HUGE difference when playing ANYTHING. It's absolutely amazing how good they are and the shadow detail is perfect. Splinter cell is a blast with this thing. I've noticed that the colours have a very cool temperature. Those who are used to warm colours may need some time to get used to it but it's worth it. I'm a guy who likes cool colours though so this made me a very happy man.

In terms of responsiveness, I have noticed a bit of blur. I have to admit, the NEC EA231WMi was probably more responsive but it's honestly not that bad. If you are playing FPS solely on a PC then you should probably look at something else but otherwise you should be fine. I'll play some MW2 later and let you guys know how that turns out but from what I've seen so far it shouldn't be an issue.*

It's a small compromise for such amazing colours and the best black level I have ever seen. Seriously, it puts my Samsung plasma to shame and the only TV's out there that have a comparable black level are the Pioneer Kuro's.

For those in the US, the regular F2380 should be just fine. I saw one on display when I was returning my NEC and it was quite evident that the blacks on that were way better than anything else. I did notice the black crush but like NCX said, it can be fixed easily.

I thought the white bezel would be an issue but it hasn't bothered me at all. I'm too busy drooling over the picture quality of this monitor. If you have the cash, live in Canada, and don't need IPS accuracy; this is the monitor for you. Like I said before, the colours are on the cool side so photographers and anybody else that needs perfect colour accuracy should look for something else. Overall, this is easily the best monitor I have ever used and it is perfect for those who are looking for one that can be used until OLED arrives.

NCX, I wouldn't have considered this monitor at all if you didn't make this thread. I really appreciate the hard work you have done and hopefully more people will realize what an amazing monitor this is.

* I forgot to change response time from faster to normal. It was quite clear that there was some overdrive in this mode so I'm sure normal would be a lot better. I will update this post when I get the chance to adjust it and play some MW2.
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What are your settings for xbox 360? I've tried using the vga adaptor and hdmi for it. Both to me, the colours looks washed out and the image is blurry at times (especially the dashboard). I"ve tried using NCX settings for the xbox but it still doesnt not look good at all. Heck, them cheap HDTVs look much better than this monitor for consoles in terms of color and sharpness.
 
Would you guys say US$420 is worth it for this monitor? Though I may come across an issue if I have to RMA it...
 
dandragonrage said:
Would you guys say US$420 is worth it for this monitor?
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Depends on your account balance. :)
In my opinion, $400 is not much at all for a monitor. You get your whole computer experience through the monitor and the speakers.
 
Jonte said:
Depends on your account balance. :)
In my opinion, $400 is not much at all for a monitor. You get your whole computer experience through the monitor and the speakers.
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Oh, I'm not against spending that much money on a monitor. But would you guys say that this is the monitor to spend it on?
 
Yes I paid 460$ for mine then BB dropped the price to 330 1 day after their price match policy ended.

Worth every penny
 
Anyone hook up your video card to the hdmi port on this monitor? If so, is your PQ blurry? I find mines is. Just wondering if my F2380MX is defective.
 
Mitsuki said:
Anyone hook up your video card to the hdmi port on this monitor? If so, is your PQ blurry? I find mines is. Just wondering if my F2380MX is defective.
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Is it a problem for you only with HDMI? I assume you are using the monitor's native resolution?
 
dandragonrage said:
Would you guys say US$420 is worth it for this monitor? Though I may come across an issue if I have to RMA it...
Click to expand...

Not for this one. Even assuming that black crush is supposedly "corrected" in mx variant (which i don't belive) it still has no overdrive and is slow. Look for something better in 24" range.
 
Michaelius said:
Not for this one. Even assuming that black crush is supposedly "corrected" in mx variant (which i don't belive) it still has no overdrive and is slow. Look for something better in 24" range.
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It is slow, but good for design. :)

I believe the black crush is fixed, why not? You do have no need to believe others' reviews but should believe at least your own eyes, i do, so i think it is fixed, ;)
 
Michaelius said:
Not for this one. Even assuming that black crush is supposedly "corrected" in mx variant (which i don't belive) it still has no overdrive and is slow. Look for something better in 24" range.
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There is no black crush, I all ready posted proof, Gamma is spot (Total Response Curve: 2.20) on, here you go again

3544c2e2d74cab52.jpg



Non of the Korean Reviewers mention black crush either. The Ezio Ev2333 which also uses C-PVA which came out last year also didn't have the issue

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-eizo-ev2333wh-bk.html

Why people keep posting about bad gamma shift and poor viewing angles is beyond me, especially sense it has been debunked numerous times in this thread.




Set your Monitor to PC under set up and reset (gets rid of overscan) and set the sharpness to 60.
 
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dandragonrage said:
Would you guys say US$420 is worth it for this monitor? Though I may come across an issue if I have to RMA it...
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Well cost would be relative to what else is available to you. $420 to me would be too much, considering the monitor is selling here locally for $330 and the non mx version can be found for $260?

Having used this before, my only issue with it was the response time, and really its a varies by user type thing. Personally I found it to be too much and impacted my enjoyment when displaying things with motion, still images were top notch though. Really had that not been an issue for me, it would've been the screen I would've have gone with at that price range.
 
The F2380MX is on sale @ Best Buy Canada for $270. Will I find a better deal for a quality PVA/IPS 1080p monitor?

I'm leaning towards purchasing it because it seems like a steal at that price.
 
The MX is a steal for for 270$. The only comparable IPS is the Dell U2311 but its 340$ on dell canada right now and has 1/3rd the contrast ratio of the MX and has poor quality control.
 
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Hi there I see you have a lot of insight on the matter. May I ask which you would recommend between F2380M (in Eur it's not MX ?) and your Acer G245 ?

For overall use : I have no TV, and I use my PC for Internet AND movies AND gaming AND picture editing.

Thanks in advance.
 
fonkydevil said:
Hi there I see you have a lot of insight on the matter. May I ask which you would recommend between F2380M (in Eur it's not MX ?) and your Acer G245 ?

For overall use : I have no TV, and I use my PC for Internet AND movies AND gaming AND picture editing.

Thanks in advance.
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The Samsung F2380MX blows the Acer away in terms of overall image quality, however you may not be able to deal with the response time for some content. Both have accurate color presets for photo editing (or you can use my settings).

It all comes down on weather or not you want image quality over response time and if a Glossy Screen is suitable for your enviroment. If you have a local retailer which you can easily return products i would suggest starting out with the F2380M.

If Glossy Screens are a no go I suggest the following Matte (anti reflective) LCDs:

Samsung XL2370 (tends to be over priced)
Review:
http://www.digitalversus.com/samsung-syncmaster-xl2370-p357_6587_36.html

Dell U2311H (beware of the Quality Control issues)
Review:
http://www.digitalversus.com/dell-u2311h-p357_8953_88.html

Acer H243H
Review:
http://www.digitalversus.com/acer-h243hx-p357_7266_38.html
 
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Thank you.

So the GD245 is glossy, I had missed this point. I want a matte.

I'd have bought the FM2380M long ago if the response time wasn't holding me back, though I don't how much of a problem it would be to me... coming from a 2006 17" 2ms. I had then set my mind on the U2311H until I found out about the QC issues (same as U2410, sadly).

I'm seriously considering downgrading to a good cheap 22", which would have the big advantage of 16/10, and less strain on V-card... that is, if I find any.

I still have to crawl this thread for feedback of fps gamers, because I plan on getting Crysis with my new comp, would like to read how it goes on this 2380.
 
Just to add my info, I bought the F2380MX but had to return it.

The ghosting and artifacting was just so bad in anything with motion. This was on Normal response time, after calibration. Watching any video resulted in noticeable ghosting, and gaming (particularly UT3) was extremely painful. Thankfully Best Buy has the no-hassle return policy. It definitely did have the best PQ/blacks I have ever seen though, but getting ghosting even when scrolling on a web page in 2010 is a joke. Come on Samsung...
 
tokie said:
Just to add my info, I bought the F2380MX but had to return it.

The ghosting and artifacting was just so bad in anything with motion. This was on Normal response time, after calibration. Watching any video resulted in noticeable ghosting, and gaming (particularly UT3) was extremely painful. Thankfully Best Buy has the no-hassle return policy. It definitely did have the best PQ/blacks I have ever seen though, but getting ghosting even when scrolling on a web page in 2010 is a joke. Come on Samsung...
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Too bad you don't like it, what monitor are you going back to?

What you were really noticing is color streaking which is different from motion blur (though it's still not that fast), and very similar to Plasma Phosphor trailing. Usually it's redish/browns that ghost, and if you set the response time to Fastest you get greens streaking as well.

Care to post your calibration results? What colorimeter/program did you use?


For any one else who might care here are some PixerPixAn results

Normal
http://wecravegames.com/forums/imagehosting/3544c9add76db9d6.jpg

Faster (The best after further testing)
http://wecravegames.com/forums/imagehosting/3544c9add768b8ab.jpg

Fastest (green artifacting/streaking makes this unusuable)
http://wecravegames.com/forums/imagehosting/3544c9ae1aeb3e6a.jpg
 
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I always wonder when i see all the NCX damage control on this monitor if he is some kind of samsung representative or someting?

Seriously it's beyond mind blowing on how you defend this shitty product.
 
F
Michaelius said:
I always wonder when i see all the NCX damage control on this monitor if he is some kind of samsung representative or someting?

Seriously it's beyond mind blowing on how you defend this shitty product.
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Yeah I totally work for samsung, despite the fact that I constantly recommend other manufacturers brands in tons of other threads and take part in a 7 plus page thread telling people not to buy the PX2370 (which I made).


Its not damage control, there was a lot of misinformation being spread in here, being the only person owning the product at the time I felt it was something I should address.

Oh and thanks to you I did notice the horribly unsharpened image some of the presets have (which I also addressed when you pointed it out).

Nice baiting attempt btw.
 
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That's not baiting.

You asked him for his calibration method which clearly implies it was his fault that monitor wasn't operating well but that's not true.
It's not operating well because that panel is shit and samsung dropped the ball on it.

Orginal 2380 is only panel i have ever seen that made a person looking at cheap 170 euro 23" TN saying that it performs superbly to his Samsung.

Therefore I belive it's my responsibility to warn everyone even glancing this thread about this display that you seem to have strong obsession in trying to make it look like resonable choice.

Even if one person who wanted to buy this POS will take a step back and change his decision I'll be happy.
 
Michaelius said:
That's not baiting.
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Seemed like you were fishing for a sassy response from me with the language you used:D

Michaelius said:
You asked him for his calibration method which clearly implies it was his fault that monitor wasn't operating well but that's not true.
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I was simply asking if Tokie would post his results/methods for comparison, as in maybe he got better color/contrast results then I was able too. It would be nice to see if the PQ/QC was consistent.

Also it has been said by others that they would like to see results other then mine.

The F2380M/MX were never meant for gaming, they are meant for office work/ametuer photography. So yes I agree Samsung has dropped the ball by ignoring the market that 95% of their other monitors are usually catered towards.

The F2380M/MX is still by no means a "shit," product, calling it that is just being short sighted and failing to realize what it was originally meant for. That's like saying 747's suck because they can't do ariel stunts.

Still, it is my fault for encouraging people to get the MX for gaming, some people love it for it's amazing PQ, but others can't get past the response time. I love it for it's deep blacks and low input lag. Response time is very hit and miss depending on the conent, but it's not bad enough to put me off. This is such a Grey area that one really has to try it for themselves as it all comes to noticeabilty and personal preference.

Remember, no monitor has it all. TN's have poor viewing angles, IPS panels have poor contrast (except the U2311H but it has poor QC) and C-PVA's have poor response times. Again it all comes down to personal perefence.
 
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The problem with office use is that:

1. It's 1920x1080 23" panel which means lower productivity area + small pixel pitch which introduces all the headaches with text size rescalling etc.
2. You don't need to have PVA panel to work with text.
3. For things that need great color accuracy the black crush is killing this display.
4. It has pretty low maximum brightness which might be problematic

Honestly only scenario where i can see Samsung as good choice would be working with text in pivot mode.

Considering there are far better alternatives (23" nec , 22-23" dells, 22-23" hps, lg 22" ) there's no reason to go into this display.

And I'd disagree with lack of good screens - sure the only thing that joins black levels of VA with responsiveness of TN is OLED but even using IPS or *VA panels it's possible to have great balance beetween colours , rensponse time and input lag - just look at last generation of A-MVA/S-PVA panels like Benq 241, Belinea 2485, LG 245WP, Benq FP 91 (my friend was doing side by side comparision beetween this model and 2380 and the model that has been in production somewhere in 2005-2006 literally offers superior performance in gaming. Using newer examples Dell 2209 is great example of what can be done in cheap monitor.
 
Michaelius said:
The problem with office use is that:

1. It's 1920x1080 23" panel which means lower productivity area + small pixel pitch which introduces all the headaches with text size rescalling etc.
2. You don't need to have PVA panel to work with text.
3. For things that need great color accuracy the black crush is killing this display.
4. It has pretty low maximum brightness which might be problematic

Honestly only scenario where i can see Samsung as good choice would be working with text in pivot mode.

Considering there are far better alternatives (23" nec , 22-23" dells, 22-23" hps, lg 22" ) there's no reason to go into this display.

And I'd disagree with lack of good screens - sure the only thing that joins black levels of VA with responsiveness of TN is OLED but even using IPS or *VA panels it's possible to have great balance beetween colours , rensponse time and input lag - just look at last generation of A-MVA/S-PVA panels like Benq 241, Belinea 2485, LG 245WP, Benq FP 91 (my friend was doing side by side comparision beetween this model and 2380 and the model that has been in production somewhere in 2005-2006 literally offers superior performance in gaming. Using newer examples Dell 2209 is great example of what can be done in cheap monitor.
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I have the Samsung F2380MX, and used to have the reg F2380. The black crush is GONE in the MX version, this is fact.

With the LCD's you recommend over the F2380MX, they all have subpar contrast ratios compared to the Sammy, what if I have a Pioneer Elite plasma and want blacks that at least COME closer to it? All the LCD's you mention are not even close! Also the prices are in some cases twice the price of the Sammy and way less contrast ratio.

I for one would rather deal with slower response time then a 60% less contrast ratio. It really all comes down to what each person can deal with. If you can deal with a way less contrast ratio then good for you.

The final issue you have is the fact this is a 16:9 monitor... As you can probably tell... most companies are stopping the 16:10 monitors... amirite?
 
I bought the F2380MX today and I'd have to say the ghosting reminds me of when consumer lcds were first introduced. The ghosting is extremely noticeable coming from my NEC EA231wmi, I am trying to like it but I don't think it's happening. I can see color smearing on high contrast edges easily in Battlefield Bad Company 2. I would like to make a comparison video against my NEC EA231wmi but my camera only makes videos of 640x480
 
zed011 said:
I bought the F2380MX today and I'd have to say the ghosting reminds me of when consumer lcds were first introduced. The ghosting is extremely noticeable coming from my NEC EA231wmi, I am trying to like it but I don't think it's happening. I can see color smearing on high contrast edges easily in Battlefield Bad Company 2. I would like to make a comparison video against my NEC EA231wmi but my camera only makes videos of 640x480
Click to expand...

If you're already disappointed with the ghosting I doubt you'll be happy with it in the long run, ghosting is the main reason I steered clear of the F2380MX (I play a lot of games) although the superior contrast ratio was very intriguing...
 
zed011 said:
I bought the F2380MX today and I'd have to say the ghosting reminds me of when consumer lcds were first introduced. The ghosting is extremely noticeable coming from my NEC EA231wmi, I am trying to like it but I don't think it's happening. I can see color smearing on high contrast edges easily in Battlefield Bad Company 2. I would like to make a comparison video against my NEC EA231wmi but my camera only makes videos of 640x480
Click to expand...

In other words exactly what i was warning people about but of of course then "experts" came saying black crush is gone and ghosting is acceptable in MX.
 
Yeah, return it if you can. I don't get why anyone would say this monitor is acceptable. The picture quality is the best out there, but nobody is using a monitor as a picture frame. Anytime there is motion on the screen, even just scrolling down a webpage, there is terrible ghosting.

I really want Samsung to release the exact same monitor in 2011, except with the ghosting fixed. The same stand, same white colour, same great contrast, etc. Just fix the damn ghosting!
 
I just picked up the F2380MX. I am not the slightest bit concerned with the ghosting or other motion artifacts, I don't play games nor watch movies on this, mostly web and occasional photo editing.

I'm connecting the display using HDMI to my PC. I'm having some trouble setting it up. If I set "HDMI Black Level" to Normal, black is anything but black, rather gray. Setting it to Low gives much deeper blacks. I'm using the settings posted earlier in this thread by NCX, and everything looks better using "HDMI Black Level" set to Low. Setting it to "Normal" also results in a bit of yellow cast using those settings. Using "Low", in the Lagom.nl black level test, I can not see the first square, but no problem from 2 and onwards.

I'd really like to get colors reasonably correct on this thing without buying a calibration device. I'd also like black, not gray. Is there anything I can do? Anyone that have calibrated the F2380MX using "HDMI Black Level" set to "Low" with a HDMI-connected display?
 
> Hopefully Asus' professional 24" IPS will have tinting compensation
> like the NEC one.

Does anyone know what the actual cause of tinting is?

How does this tinting compensation work? I've read that
the tinting can vary across the panel.

Has tinting been observed on non-LG panels?

Is the F2380 screen glossy or matte? Same for F2380M and F2380MX?
 
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