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Samsung F2380 vs F2380mx

coolhandm3 said:
There is some real IRONY here..... You told me to make sense when I post...

And then you post what you did above and it is one of the most cryptic post I have ever read on here. To top it off you have to post it in the smallest font possible!!

Please back up YOUR claims with facts, we would all appreciate it, thank you :)
Click to expand...

I don't see the problem: NCX put out some numbers to characterise the 2209WA, albovin disagreed with them about whether it correctly describes the model, and I put out some other numbers which I and likely others believe are a better representation.

While the topic of CR and panel tech is relevant to this thread, we don't need to reach a consensus, nor does the topic have to drag on for several pages.
 
NCX said:
you still have to average the contrast between the 5 "professional reviewers."
Click to expand...
Awful!
____

1. It has been 1 year since I measured 3000:1 CR on the Samsung F2380 and published the review.
2. It has been explained to you why posting numbers like 600:1 does not make sense.
3. If you don't stop using offensive language I will call the administration.
Thanx.

Enough on that. Focus on the topic please.
 
NCX was right about the 2209WA CR

I also got around 630:1 using DisplayPro to calibrate. So did Tom's Hardware and Flatpanel HD
 
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albovin said:
Awful!
____

1. It has been 1 year since I measured 3000:1 CR on the Samsung F2380 and published the review.
2. It has been explained to you why posting numbers like 600:1 does not make sense.
3. If you don't stop using offensive language I will call the administration.
Thanx.

Enough on that. Focus on the topic please.
Click to expand...



Why does it not make sense to post an actual calibrated contrast ratio when you post the manufactures contrast ratio? Your really not making any sense....
 
Nielo TM said:
Center black crush and edge-washout are the effect of limited viewing angles of VA panels (mostly gamma shift). To compensate, the user must increase the viewing distance.
Click to expand...

Yes I noted in my impressions that the F2380MX has edge washout and that the viewing angles are highly exaggerated.

It's still better than dealing with the Dell/LG IPS issues for now. I will get another monitor once a more reliable crop of IPS shows up or fix to the tint shows up. Hopefully Asus' professional 24" IPS will have tinting compensation like the NEC one. :cool:

Not a fan of 16:9, but for $299 I think it's worth it compared to the 3xU2410s I got for $419.
 
coolhandm3 said:
Why does it not make sense to post an actual calibrated contrast ratio when xxxxxxxxxx?
Click to expand...

Calibrated CR is not actual CR.

Calibrated CR depends on users preferences, equipment used, etc.
Some posters (including "pros") pick wrong modes that are not representative.

Calibrated CR is good as a side note on condition that the reviewer is able to assess before/after values (brightness, dE, gamma) and visible changes as well.

Actual CR is what is measured on factory settings or after simple manipulations with OSD settings.
This CR is actual for 99% of users as 99% never calibrate their monitors.
 
There is logic to your argument. It would be nice to have an display with fully optimized grayscale and RGB that maximizes the LCD's performance. But the closest we have are professional monitors with direct link to the colorimeter and a few television sets. Low-end and mid-range monitors must be calibrated to compensate for inaccuracies in color and gamma that cannot be corrected manually. As result, certain level of contrast is sacrificed to obtained a balanced image.

So it's best to publish the CR value with dynamic dimming disabled and peak black and white maximized along with the calibrated results.


PS: On monitors, CR can also vary by input (HDMI, DVI, VGA and DP) and timing (VESA/CEA). So it's best to test it all. This however is not necessary for TVs.
 
Thanks for the picture guys, this is what my NEC EA231WMi looks like. I wonder if I should try the F2380MX because I do like deep blacks but at the same time I don't like ghosting much, guess I will just have to see for myself.

img5272a.jpg
 
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The issue with the F2380s in terms of ghosting, is that they have relatively very poor performance for certain transitions. Which is why you will notice significant ghosting in certain uses and acceptable ghosting in others.

F2380 compared to your Nec ea231
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/nec-ms-ea231wmi_7.html#sect0
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/nec-ms-ea231wmi_7.html#sect0

For instance you can see that for certain transitions it is roughly 3 times slower then your NEC. This was basically the main problem I had with the F2380MX, for some things I use my monitor for the response was way too slow. So I would recommend you try it out as well, since it really is one of those user dependent things that you really need to judge for yourself.
 
I think I will just stop by and check it out in-store sometime. Right now I have no complaints at all about the response time or ghosting. I play battlefield and Need For Speed Shift from time to time. I can't afford to have two monitors so the NEC has to go if I do like the F2380MX
 
I was at bestbuy today and I viewed the F2380MX to have no black crush next to a Apple 24" LED IPS screen. Ghosting however I wasn't able to judge at all, they were only displaying static pictures and wouldn't let me touch their computer controlling the displays. Still thinking about buying one, it was on sale for $299 last week but I didn't bite and now I don't want to bite on the regular price
 
I am posting to confirm that in order to maximize the 2209WA VGA's performance, the user must access the service menu to calibrate grayscale.

Grayscale can be calibrated via automated calibration software, but at the cost of contrast and elevated blacks.


Please note that RGB Gain and Off-set have no effect on DVI.
 
Officially they're 60hz of course, but can these properly do 72hz or more?

At native res and at lower resolutions respectively.


(lower res on these would have to be done via "do not scale" in the nvidia control panel
as they do not support 1:1 pixel mapping, unless you want the picture stretched)
 
NCX said:
I only calibrated the MX to 120cdm/2, but I will post those settings. Color temp is 6540K w/o a calibration profile and just my settings..

Picture:

Brightness: 53
Contrast: 95
Sharpness 60
MagicBright: custom
Response Time: Normal
HDMI Black Level: Normal (unless you like a very dark image, black depth is greatly increased)

Color:
Magic Color: Off
Red: 29
Greem: 25
Blue: 31
Color Tone: Custom
Color Effect: Off
Gamma Mode: 1

You can get audio by hooking consoles up via HDMI, also there is a headphone jack on the side

I haven't played any racing games but feel free to browse my photobucket ablum there are a ton of 360 game pictures on it
http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj118/NCX123/
Click to expand...


I got the monitor and it very good! I used your settings for my 360 with HDMi. My questions are as follows:

1. I notice that hdmi black to normal makes the image washed out, if I put the 360 to expanded in the dashboard everything looks alot better, is this what you do? Otherwise hdmi black at normal looks to greatly hinder the lowest black level alot.

2. What is your settings for a pc hooked up with dvi? Would the settings be the same as the 360 with hdmi?

I removed the white bezel and had the aluminium thin bezel under it powder coated black by Charles at murderMod ( to match my murderMod TJ07 internals), crappy iPhone 3g pics below:


l

l

l


By removing the plastic bezel, it reduce the bezel in half, its as thin as those Samsung monitors they were showing off months ago for eyefinity setup! Looks very slick! Check out the pics above, sorry about the bad quality!!
 
The xbox 360 should always be set to expanded, I leave the hdmi black level on normal, some games look better with it being set to low, but when I loaded up ODST it totallh crushed the image in the Mombasa streets night time levels. Shadow details is also diminished with the "Low," HDMI black level setting. If you like the effect then the original model probably wouldnt bother you at all. Some games like Dead Space benifit from a darker image.


Cool bezel mod


My posted settings are for PC and 360 (settings are universal across all inputs)
 
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NCX said:
The xbox 360 should always be set to expanded, I leave the hdmi black level on normal, some games look better with it being set to low, but when I loaded up ODST it totallh crushed the image in the Mombasa streets night timw levels. If you like the effect then the original model probably wpuldnt bother you at all. Some games like Dead Space benifit from a darker image.


Cool bezel mod


My posted settings are for PC and 360 (settings are universal across all inputs)
Click to expand...

Very nice! Yea with your settings and the Xbox 360 set to expanded it looks amazing! I think the biggest gripe with the monitor is that it indeed has some blur, but if you don't look for it then its not an issue! The contrast ratio and color is fantastic!

Also I noticed on the HDMi input the montior gives a choice of AV or PC, on HDMI it defaults to AV, should I change it to PC or will that effect your settings?

Thanks in advance!
I haven't hooked my pc up to it yet but with your settings (same for 360 and pc) do I need to change anything in the display settings of the pc so that the black level is correct like on the 360?
 
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I have mine set to PC on HDMI, I think that's the image scaling, didn't see any overscan on AV mode though.

When hooked to a PC (DVI) you don't need to change anything (HDMI black level is not avaliable with DVI).
 
Hey all,

I first heard of this monitor through digitalversus, and they highly praised it, and offered configuration suggestions to completely remove and reduce some of the problems listed with the F2380M. Eventually deciding to go with it, I started looking around for the F2380M, but...

This thing is not in stock ANYWHERE. I can find the F2380 easily, but I want the M version for the HDMI mostly, and because it fixes the inert black crush problem (and according to digitalversus just improves on most aspects like the MX does). And it's not like I can order the MX, because I've heard thats Canada only and I live in the UK. Does anyone know why it's literally impossible to find the F2380M in stock?

I decided to go with it for the amazing colour and contrast that digitalversus mentioned it had, and I don't find the responsiveness a problem because I don't really game on my PC anyway. I use a VX2260WM for playing on the xbox because it has almost no input lag. The only game I really play on the PC is Oblivion, and that isn't a fast paced game at all, so I can assume that this monitor will be able to handle it just fine?
 
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You and me too, can't find it in the U.S.A.. The only place Ive seen it for sale is BestBuy Canada. http://++++++++++++/F2380MX


I wrote BestBuy U.S.A. and they responded with:

I did a thorough review of the Samsung F2380MX, and I am sorry I was not able to find it. To better assist you, please contact our sales team on 1 888 237-8289-(USA) or 1 866 237-8289(Canada) for additional help in locating it. I appreciate your interest in shopping with us.

Have a wonderful Friday.
Yvonne.
Best Buy Customer Care Team.
 
LC155 said:
Hey all,

I first heard of this monitor through digitalversus, and they highly praised it, and offered configuration suggestions to completely remove and reduce some of the problems listed with the F2380M. Eventually deciding to go with it, I started looking around for the F2380M, but...

This thing is not in stock ANYWHERE. I can find the F2380 easily, but I want the M version for the HDMI mostly, and because it fixes the inert black crush problem (and according to digitalversus just improves on most aspects like the MX does). And it's not like I can order the MX, because I've heard thats Canada only and I live in the UK. Does anyone know why it's literally impossible to find the F2380M in stock?

I decided to go with it for the amazing colour and contrast that digitalversus mentioned it had, and I don't find the responsiveness a problem because I don't really game on my PC anyway. I use a VX2260WM for playing on the xbox because it has almost no input lag. The only game I really play on the PC is Oblivion, and that isn't a fast paced game at all, so I can assume that this monitor will be able to handle it just fine?
Click to expand...

F2380MX is Canada only, the M is Europe/Asia only and the original is avaliable world wide. No idea why no one has the M version, maybe the MX is coming soon?

I do all my console gaming on the MX, and previously the original. Some games have zero ghosting and just your typical LCD motion blur, some have minor color streaking. Weather or not you will even notice is the real question (my friend has one and has yet to notice). If I've learned anything from this thread is that it's completely subjective.

I could use the Acer G245H for gaming, but the MX looks 3x better (933:1 vs 3,000:1). Whenever there is ghosting I do notice, but it doesn't bother me because it looks so freaking good. Games will have new life breathed into them when played on the F2380M/MX.

If you can get the M get one, you won't regret it. Also there is no reason to quit using the viewsonic, try having a dual monitor set up (unless desk space is an issue)?
 
NCX said:
I could use the Acer G245H for gaming, but the MX looks 3x better (933:1 vs 3,000:1). Whenever there is ghosting I do notice, but it doesn't bother me because it looks so freaking good. Games will have new life breathed into them when played on the F2380M/MX.
Click to expand...

I have a similar experience when comparing games on my PX2370 & Kuro Plasma, The contrast ratio / black levels are so far superior on the Plasma it makes games actually look different in a lot of areas (In a really good way), and to top that off the Plasma has noticeably less motion blur!

Maybe one day they'll be able to make a PC LCD with both fast response and good contrast ratio like Plasma's, but Im starting to lose hope.
 
mathesar said:
I have a similar experience when comparing games on my PX2370 & Kuro Plasma, The contrast ratio / black levels are so far superior on the Plasma it makes games actually look different in a lot of areas (In a really good way), and to top that off the Plasma has noticeably less motion blur!

Maybe one day they'll be able to make a PC LCD with both fast response and good contrast ratio like Plasma's, but Im starting to lose hope.
Click to expand...

Yeah I have the Samsung A950 LED which is pretty much the Local Dimmed equivalent to the Kuro (not the Reference 500M), no mortion blur/over drive trailing and a ridiculous picture, but it has 60ms of input lag! This is what made me go for the original F2380. Gamers just can't win unless they spend 3k$ for a VT25 (I would in a heartbeat if I didn't allready have a TV)

The new Ben Q C-PVA panels might solve the blur issue, but those are a ways off and no response time info has been released.

PS you should use your Kuro for PC gaming (but no desktop usage)


Update: Full F2380MX Written Review coming soon........
 
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NCX said:
F2380MX is Canada only, the M is Europe/Asia only and the original is avaliable world wide. No idea why no one has the M version, maybe the MX is coming soon?

I do all my console gaming on the MX, and previously the original. Some games have zero ghosting and just your typical LCD motion blur, some have minor color streaking. Weather or not you will even notice is the real question (my friend has one and has yet to notice). If I've learned anything from this thread is that it's completely subjective.

I could use the Acer G245H for gaming, but the MX looks 3x better (933:1 vs 3,000:1). Whenever there is ghosting I do notice, but it doesn't bother me because it looks so freaking good. Games will have new life breathed into them when played on the F2380M/MX.

If you can get the M get one, you won't regret it. Also there is no reason to quit using the viewsonic, try having a dual monitor set up (unless desk space is an issue)?
Click to expand...

I've been looking at places, and every time they have a stock update date they change it. Now they all say the 28th of this month. Knowing them, they'll just change it again.

So what you're saying is I should definitely be on the lookout for the M version and just try and ignore the original? Sounds fair enough. I just wish Samsung would say why none of them are in stock ,so I actually know what's happening. If the date is going to keep changing I don't know if I can keep waiting.

I was thinking that perhaps I should be on the look out for a monitor that actually is in stock, such as the Dell U2311H, but according to you the slightly less colour performance and 3x contrast definitely trumps the dell?

I only have one monitor on my esk right now (which is large enough to accommodate 2 monitors) which is the Samsung 2253BW. I have a 60" Glass TV table behind the desk on the other side of the room, which is where I have put the Viewsonic and a large enough SDTV. :p
 
LC155 said:
I've been looking at places, and every time they have a stock update date they change it. Now they all say the 28th of this month. Knowing them, they'll just change it again.

So what you're saying is I should definitely be on the lookout for the M version and just try and ignore the original? Sounds fair enough. I just wish Samsung would say why none of them are in stock ,so I actually know what's happening. If the date is going to keep changing I don't know if I can keep waiting.

I was thinking that perhaps I should be on the look out for a monitor that actually is in stock, such as the Dell U2311H, but according to you the slightly less colour performance and 3x contrast definitely trumps the dell?

I only have one monitor on my esk right now (which is large enough to accommodate 2 monitors) which is the Samsung 2253BW. I have a 60" Glass TV table behind the desk on the other side of the room, which is where I have put the Viewsonic and a large enough SDTV. :p
Click to expand...

The M/MX seem to be identical except for the white bezel on the MX (I prefer black). Hold out for the M, the original has black crush (fixable with some free programs but not worth the time) and no HDMI inputs. The Dell U2311 is the best gaming IPS in N/A, but quality control is a huge problem, which is something you would never have to worry about with the Samsung. The Samsung spanks the Dell in overall image quality, color quality regarding accuracy would be very similar though.

Sense you're in Europe see if you can get the Fujitsu P22w-5 Eco IPS if you can't wait for the M as it is even better then the U2311
Review
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2010/review-fsc-p22w-5.html

Or the more expensive Ezio EV233 (same panel as the F2380's but costs more)
Review
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-eizo-ev2333wh-bk.html
 
Hmm... Well, if the Samsung does indeed trounce the U2311H in overall image quality, then I'll guess I'll just have to wait for it. Although I'll probably end up contacting Samsung to see if they know what's up with the stock levels of these things.

I pick the BEST times to buy stuff. ._.
 
Okay, I'm dead set on either the F2380M or the U2311H. I don't particularly want to play the IPS panel lottery so I'm going to go with the F2380M first and see how that performs.

I have found ONE site on the entire internet that claims to have them in stock (So I'm keeping it secret until they hopefully tell me it's actually the M version and not the original and that they haven't made a mistake).

I've seen two people on these forums so far who have tried both (NCX and someone else) and both have said the newest samsung spanks the Dell, so I'm gonna try that one out first.

I don't do professional colour work, and come from a TN, so I should be blown away regardless, and I'll be looking at the monitor dead on so the PVA contrast shift wont bother me either. If it doesn't black crush I'll be a happy, happy man and will probably buy another.

:D
 
LC155 said:
and I'll be looking at the monitor dead on so the PVA contrast shift wont bother me either.

:D
Click to expand...

A few days ago, and just before I would have placed my payment for the EV2333W I was keen on, I had the chance to spend some time with a modern Samsung VA TV. I discovered that the viewing angle dependency and gamma shift was so severe as to affect the image when viewing dead on from the maximum distance the room would allow, about 2.5 metres.

My impression is that while the contrast is something to look forward to, the dead-on gamma shift presents an image with disappointing consistency. Generally I don't think I would recommend the technology in the format of a TV. Especially with two or more people viewing. The Lambertian emission of a PDP would provide a much more cinematic experience.

In monitors too, I can't really approve it as the best technology. As albovin said in his review, high contrast plays a role in the presence of wide viewing angles. At this point I will continue to use my 2209WA until such time as say, blue phase LCD arrives in a monitor, or I gain enough funds to both acquire a private viewing plasma and placate the family with a replacement for their aging CRT TV :p.

Also, all images of the F2380MX I've seen from Korean/Chinese reviews demonstrated black crush and a high colour temperature.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
A few days ago, and just before I would have placed my payment for the EV2333W I was keen on, I had the chance to spend some time with a modern Samsung VA TV. I discovered that the viewing angle dependency and gamma shift was so severe as to affect the image when viewing dead on from the maximum distance the room would allow, about 2.5 metres.

My impression is that while the contrast is something to look forward to, the dead-on gamma shift presents an image with disappointing consistency. Generally I don't think I would recommend the technology in the format of a TV. Especially with two or more people viewing. The Lambertian emission of a PDP would provide a much more cinematic experience.

In monitors too, I can't really approve it as the best technology. As albovin said in his review, high contrast plays a role in the presence of wide viewing angles. At this point I will continue to use my 2209WA until such time as say, blue phase LCD arrives in a monitor, or I gain enough funds to both acquire a private viewing plasma and placate the family with a replacement for their aging CRT TV :p.

Also, all images of the F2380MX I've seen from Korean/Chinese reviews demonstrated black crush and a high colour temperature.
Click to expand...

Do you have links to these reviews? NCX swears by the fact that the MX fixes the black crush problem, and he hasn't mentioned anything about extreme gamma shift either. I'll be sitting about arms length from it, so I don't think the dead on gamma shift would affect me. Still, I'm interested in what those Korean/Chinese reviews have to say.
 
I'm probably missing something, but I don't see any indication of pictures showing black crush.
 
Hard to make a lot sense of any of those once translated. I didn't see anything about black crush only praise about everything except the response time from both sites.

Not sure how the PC inside guy came up with such different results, I'm also pretty sure neither display is calibrated...

http://cfs14.tistory.com/original/8/tistory/2010/03/06/12/54/4b91d2004481d

Image is taken from "Out of Africa," played back via Media Player Classic on PC. The MX shot is a second later due MPC displaying a black screen when windows are dragged (and I didnt feel like spending any more time).

Acer G245H (TN)
3544c3f0e5751f84.jpg



Samsung F2380MX
3544c3f0e57c5368.jpg


This constant talk of black crush is getting stupid (once again). I posted the BasICColor gamma results allready which showed the gamma result was 2.2 (2.15 on the original). If one thinks that viewing angles are more important than head on PQ by majorly sacrificing PQ that's fine, it's an opinion that I can live with, but disagree with 1000000000x Infinity.
 
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zed011 said:
Let's give this one a test

Use this wallpaper
http://shiftedreality.deviantart.com/#/ds72e8

Same wallpaper they used in this F2380 review
http://www.it.com.cn/diy/bigimg/2009/06/14/06/539511_62.html

I will post my NEC results
Click to expand...

Is your monitor calibrated? If not then no....comparing camera pictures from different cameras/settings/lighting conditions is also a No-No...

Further more of course the MX will look darker in the above image, it has like 1/4th the black value of the NEC...
 
Whoisthisreally said:
A few days ago, and just before I would have placed my payment for the EV2333W I was keen on, I had the chance to spend some time with a modern Samsung VA TV. I discovered that the viewing angle dependency and gamma shift was so severe as to affect the image when viewing dead on from the maximum distance the room would allow, about 2.5 metres.

....
Click to expand...


You can't make the assumption that all PVAs are the same.
Samsung uses different panels from different manufacturers in their TVs by the way. They have different characteristics.
 
Jonte said:
You can't make the assumption that all PVAs are the same.
Samsung uses different panels from different manufacturers in their TVs by the way. They have different characteristics.
Click to expand...

I'm currently working with the assumption that the LTM230HP01 panel is somewhat comparable in gamma shift to the two TVs I observed, an LA32B450 with a service menu ID of 32A6AHOC, and an LA40A450. I have also considered this video, along with albovin's and ToastyX's comments on their F2380, as well as the Prad reviews of the F2380 and EV2333W.

My conclusion is that it isn't in my favour to purchase an EV2333W for AU$899 in order to see for myself.
 
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