Samsung 860 EVO SATA III with older motherboard

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polonyc2

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earlier today I bought a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD as the price was too good to pass up ($130)...but I'm still using a motherboard from 2010 (Asus P6X58D Premium)...the mobo is native SATA II (3.0 Gb/s) but it does have 2 special SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) ports...but the SATA 3 ports use a Marvell controller...what am I losing by using the Marvell port?...will it still be substantially faster then a non-SSD mechanical drive in the SATA II port?…or should I just hook it up to the native SATA II ports and not even bother with the Marvell?

is there anything I need to do in the BIOS to max out the performance of the Marvell port?...the motherboard manual mentions something about setting it to 'Standard IDE mode'...I attached a pic from the motherboard manual to illustrate it...also is it best to hook it up to the 6.0_1 or 6.0_2 port?

mb1.png
 
Use the intel pch SATA ports, they will be generally the better choice.
 
I'd also lean towards using the Intel ports, but if the Marvell is bootable it can't hurt to test out on one of those. Bandwidth on the Marvell is better, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Intel had somewhat better latency numbers (where SSDs really shine compared to HDDs).

Either chipset should be set to AHCI mode regardless, especially before installing the OS. IDE mode is for compatibility with older OS releases and isn't really applicable any longer.
 
mwroobel said:
Use the intel pch SATA ports, they will be generally the better choice.
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BlueLineSwinger said:
I'd also lean towards using the Intel ports, but if the Marvell is bootable it can't hurt to test out on one of those. Bandwidth on the Marvell is better, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Intel had somewhat better latency numbers (where SSDs really shine compared to HDDs).

Either chipset should be set to AHCI mode regardless, especially before installing the OS. IDE mode is for compatibility with older OS releases and isn't really applicable any longer.
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using the Marvell port would not give me the same speeds as using a native SATA III (6.0 Gb) port on a new motherboard right?...something must be gimped or borked with the Marvell
 
Intel drivers/hardware usually has better stability and reliability. Doesn't mean the 3rd party stuff is always the worst choice. Often the 3rd party stuff is there so the MB maker can offer RAID or some other function the base Intel chipset doesn't. If the MB maker did a good implementation and you can get good bios/firmware/drivers the 3rd party, in this case Marvell, can be good to go. Be a good idea to do a basic search for variations of your motherboard model + Marvell + problems.

If you are replacing a single 8 year old spinning HD with a SSD, you should get a wonderful speed increase with either port.

Be sure to look up OS settings for SSD vs spinning. Older OS don't always pick the best settings.
 
I received my Samsung 860 EVO today and was wondering how important it was to update the firmware on a regular basis?...do I need to update it every time a new one is released or can I just keep using the version it shipped with for the life of the drive?

should I enable Rapid Mode?...looking online it seems opinions are mixed...I currently have 12GB of system RAM but plan on building a new rig soon with 16GB...also when benchmarking the SSD should Rapid Mode be disabled?
 
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polonyc2 said:
I received my Samsung 860 EVO today and was wondering how important it was to update the firmware on a regular basis?...do I need to update it every time a new one is released or can I just keep using the version it shipped with for the life of the drive?

should I enable Rapid Mode?...looking online it seems opinions are mixed...I currently have 12GB of system RAM but plan on building a new rig soon with 16GB...also when benchmarking the SSD should Rapid Mode be disabled?
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i would not bother with RAPID mode (and yes if your benchmarking RAPID mode must be off to you just be benchmarking your ram speed)

install samsung magician and it tell you when there is an update (do note it seems to lack auto notification when new version of samsung magician is available you have to press the ? at the top right to see if there is a new version)

you should keep it up to date fixes issues (recant one is total compromise of the SSD even if you have enabled SSD encryption, your fine if your using software encryption ) don't think they have released an update for it yet

But yes use the intel SATA ports the marvel SATA port
 
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I've always used HDDErase to reformat/erase my mechanical hard drives prior to re-installing Windows...is HDDErase still the best way to secure erase modern SSD's like the 860 EVO?...is the manufacturer provided 'Secure Erase' tool preferred over it (for example Samsung's Magician Software toolkit)?...I hear a lot of reports about people's computers being in a frozen/locked state after using the Samsung Secure Erase tool
 
polonyc2 said:
I've always used HDDErase to reformat/erase my mechanical hard drives prior to re-installing Windows...is HDDErase still the best way to secure erase modern SSD's like the 860 EVO?...is the manufacturer provided 'Secure Erase' tool preferred over it (for example Samsung's Magician Software toolkit)?...I hear a lot of reports about people's computers being in a frozen/locked state after using the Samsung Secure Erase tool
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Install a Linux live distro to a USB flash drive (Etcher works well for this) and perform an ATA Secure Erase. There are Windows-based utilities for this as well, but all of the ones I've found must be paid for.

The old methods used to overwrite a HDD with a bunch of random garbage will reduce the life of a SSD and shouldn't be used.
 
polonyc2 said:
I've always used HDDErase to reformat/erase my mechanical hard drives prior to re-installing Windows...is HDDErase still the best way to secure erase modern SSD's like the 860 EVO?...is the manufacturer provided 'Secure Erase' tool preferred over it (for example Samsung's Magician Software toolkit)?...I hear a lot of reports about people's computers being in a frozen/locked state after using the Samsung Secure Erase tool
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unless that tool can perform a ATA secure erase then no on a SSD , just make a bootable erase disk from samsung magician to erase samsung SSDs, as its nearly instant and resets all NAND chips are TRIMed out and reset page table and encryption keys are reset (even if you not password protected a SSD it's always encrypted just in an unlocked state) the drive will be like new (minus the wear on it)

something that a random erase software can't do as all they do is write random data to the SSD witch does not assure that its fully erased as well as leave the SSD in a degraded state (puts very unnecessary wear on the SSD)
 
likeman said:
unless that tool can perform a ATA secure erase then no on a SSD , just make a bootable erase disk from samsung magician to erase samsung SSDs, as its nearly instant and resets all NAND chips are TRIMed out and reset page table and encryption keys are reset (even if you not password protected a SSD it's always encrypted just in an unlocked state) the drive will be like new (minus the wear on it)

something that a random erase software can't do as all they do is write random data to the SSD witch does not assure that its fully erased as well as leave the SSD in a degraded state (puts very unnecessary wear on the SSD)
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HDDErase does use Secure Erase (and Enhanced Secure Erase for drives that support it)...I've been using it for years on my mechanical drives and older SSD's
 
polonyc2 said:
HDDErase does use Secure Erase (and Enhanced Secure Erase for drives that support it)...I've been using it for years on my mechanical drives and older SSD's
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never looked at HDDErase before does seem it only uses secure erase command to wipe the disk , witch is good thing as long as you can get the drive out of Frozen status (i only have 2 systems that don't fail when you remove>plug the power to the drive to remove the Frozen status )

a lot of other utilities seem to just write random data to the disk form start LBA to end, if the drive is an SED drive (has the PSID revert or is a Self Encrypting Drive, SED) it should to no longer then 0-2 minutes to Secure Erase the drive (as it only has to reset the Encryption keys) a SSD only has to TRIM all NAND space witch is unrecoverable (windows 7 or higher quick format is effectively a mass TRIM command to all free space, windows 7 and higher understands what a SSD is, full and quick format does the same thing on a SSD)

i guess Adv secure erase on a HDD also wipes all space as well even if its a SED drive (if its not a SSD, as SSD it only has to TRIM all NAND space)
 
I installed the Samsung 860 EVO and everything is working fine but I'm confused about the 'defragment and optimize drives' feature in Windows 10...I know it won't defrag my drive and will run TRIM...

1) is the default schedule of running it once a week sufficient?

2) I just set up the drive a few hours ago and in the 'Defragment and Optimize Drives' setting it detects my SSD correctly but it shows as 'Never Run' and 'Needs Optimization'...do I need to manually run it once before it will automatically do it?...do I need to run it every time it says 'Needs Optimization'?...if it does it automatically then theoretically it shouldn't ever say that right?

3) is running the Samsung Magician Secure Erase feature good to use every time I do a reformat?...I keep hearting reports about drives being stuck in a frozen state...is it better to use another Secure Erase program such as HDDErase?
 
1) is the default schedule of running it once a week sufficient?
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I say If anything it is way too often.

3) is running the Samsung Magician Secure Erase feature good to use every time I do a reformat?
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Maybe once every few years.

.is it better to use another Secure Erase program such as HDDErase?
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Never to that using a hard drive shredder utility. This would write data to every sector causing wear. That is the exact opposite thing you want to do.

In an SSD SecureErase is a SATA command inside the drive to tell the drive to zero out the mapping table which means that no sectors of the drive are in use. This does not cause wear on the drive. Its basically TRIM everything.

2) I just set up the drive a few hours ago and in the 'Defragment and Optimize Drives' setting it detects my SSD correctly but it shows as 'Never Run' and 'Needs Optimization'...do I need to manually run it once before it will automatically do it?...do I need to run it every time it says 'Needs Optimization'?...if it does it automatically then theoretically it shouldn't ever say that right?
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I would not mess with this.
 
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drescherjm said:
I say If anything it is way too often.

Never to that using a hard drive shredder utility. This would write data to every sector causing wear. That is the exact opposite thing you want to do.

In an SSD SecureErase is a SATA command inside the drive to tell the drive to zero out the mapping table which means that no sectors of the drive are in use. This does not cause wear on the drive. Its basically TRIM everything
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but Windows 10 defaults to scheduling a weekly 'optimize' run...I assume optimize means its running TRIM...is there any harm in running TRIM too much?

as far as HDDErase, it has a Secure Erase feature (also Enhanced Secure Erase if your drive supports it)...it's not doing multiple passes like a program like DBAN
 
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I recently bought a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB drive as the price was too good to pass up ($130) but I'm still using an older motherboard with SATA II connections (it does have 2 special SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) Marvell ports but I heard it's best not to use those)...I did a benchmark run with my new Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD and wanted to know if the numbers I'm getting are what they're supposed to be (considering I'm using a SATA II connection)...

CDM Samsung 860 EVO.png
 
polonyc2 said:
I recently bought a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB drive as the price was too good to pass up ($130) but I'm still using an older motherboard with SATA II connections (it does have 2 special SATA III (6.0 Gb/s) Marvell ports but I heard it's best not to use those)...I did a benchmark run with my new Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD and wanted to know if the numbers I'm getting are what they're supposed to be (considering I'm using a SATA II connection)...
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seems fine , With SSDs its not all about pure Sequential speeds (yes it's nice to have 1000-2000mb/s on NVME or above 400MB on SATA 3, but you only hit that when installing a game which is more a one time thing), its random read and writes is where the action is at , i put SSDs in SATA one systems (150MB) and you think its a new PC going from the HDD

on a HDD 4k Q32 and Q1 be around or under under 1mb/s
 
likeman said:
seems fine , With SSDs its not all about pure Sequential speeds (yes it's nice to have 1000-2000mb/s on NVME or above 400MB on SATA 3, but you only hit that when installing a game which is more a one time thing), its random read and writes is where the action is at , i put SSDs in SATA one systems (150MB) and you think its a new PC going from the HDD

on a HDD 4k Q32 and Q1 be around or under under 1mb/s
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yup I benchmarked my previous Western Digital Black 640GB mechanical hard drive to see the difference between it and the Samsung 860 EVO...

CDM Western Digital 640GB.jpg
 
A high percentage of reads and writes are small in most individual applications and certainly the OS fall in that category. Although in the case of running multiple applications at the same time and the OS in the background makes the 2nd line also important.
 
With SATA II operation you're limited to roughly 280-290MB/s reads and writes over the SATA interface so the screenshot above in post #16 is pretty much spot on where it should be give or take a few MB/s. If that board does have secondary SATA ports that do actually function in SATA III mode those speeds would almost double evenly to provide what that SSD is capable of, about 540-550MB/s reads and 480-520MB/s writes - those numbers are based on sustained reads of large files, of course, and not the smaller 4K random reads and writes which is why that has been pointed out in a few posts above.

Windows and most any disk-based OS like macOS and also Linux distros and most every other OS ever created does a lot of small reads and writes from the storage media it's running from, so yes those small reads and writes need to be done frequently which means whenever you can maximize those particular reads and writes not only for actual transfer speed (the MB/s aka how much data is transferred in a given frame of time) but the access time (how fast - and this has nothing to do with the transfer speed) for finding the data to begin the transfer process. Hard drives have access times (at their fastest points which is the outside of the platters) of 6-12ms and it drops as you go deeper into the platters to like 18-25ms on some drives.

SSDs? Access times like 0.01ms are not uncommon which is literally thousands of times faster so yeah, those tiny read and write operations for data in 4K (4096 bytes) chunks happening as often as possible (that's what the IOPS rating is for, Input-Output-Per-Second iirc, the higher the better) all meshes together to determine just how "fast" a drive actually is.

Basic gist of this: your drive is working fine. Using RAPID can make it seem much faster than it actually is if you've got RAM to spare for it (roughly 1GB of it will help, the software will determine the amount based on how much you've got total in the machine) and since you're currently using the SATA II bus and limited to that ~280MB/s speed then yes it can help improve performance in some instances, it's tough to say but it sure as hell can't hurt anything.

As for the ATA Secure Erase thing, think of it like this (crazy analogy that I just came up with):

You're the leader of an orchestra, like a big huge orchestra with 100 musicians playing music. The data you want to erase is on the musical sheets in front of each of those 100 musicians. You want them to have blank sheets of tablature in front of them, all 100 of them.

A traditional secure erase on a hard drive (not an SSD) requires you to write data (typically just the 0 character, literally, hence a "zero erase" or "zero wipe"). To do that in our analogy you'd have to go to each musician, one at a time, and write 0's on their tablature and that can take a really really REALLY long time, especially if you do a 3-pass wipe or even more which is crazy but some people do it.

Now, with an SSD and the ATA Secure Erase, you stand at the podium, you raise your baton and tap it on the podium, then you wave it one time and all 100 musicians tear up their tablature at exactly the same moment.

See, I told you, crazy analogy, right? :D

But that's a crazy insane way to describe it: the ATA Secure Erase sends an electrical pulse through every cell on the SSD at the same instant - like instructing all 100 musicians to respond at the same moment - and it returns the cells of data to clear "factory" state. Wear leveling info is still in effect but not relevant.

Suffice to say doing a zero wipe on an SSD can be done, but it's a waste of write cycles on the cells and can take a little time even with the speed of an SSD. With the ATA Secure Erase, depending on the capacity, the full secure wipe should take from 5 to maybe 20 seconds and that's it. In fact, on some drives it happens so fast you'll probably think it didn't work at all, but it did, if the software you're using to do it says it's done.

That's that. :)
 
My SATA II system. 1tb WD blue spinner vs 1tb 860 EVO directly before & after Win10 migration.

159362_cdm.2.jpg
 
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