SAG-AFTRA Set Strike Date Against Video Game Giants

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It looks as though SAG-AFTRA will be moving ahead with its strike against the video game industry saying that it needs a contract that "fits the needs" of its members. On the other hand, the video game industry maintains that performers are treated fairly and making more than $100 an hour plus benefits. :eek:

The existing contract between Video Game Companies and SAG-AFTRA pays all performers more than $100 an hour plus benefits and most performers many times that. The Companies’ current proposals on the negotiation table includes wage increases for most performers and additional avenues for compensation that could yield many hundreds of dollars more in payments for limited integration and ratification bonuses. Although the Companies have had only one report of workplace injury due to vocal stress, the Companies have continued to look to ways to reduce the burdens on performers in this area through the more flexible work scheduling and other innovative work arrangements.
 
Yes unions. Until you work in the industry you really have no clue how bad non-union gigs are.

Considering that an extra with one line gets a min of $600 in tv/movies, makes these video game rates suck.

I have to fight constantly with the above the liners, they are always trying to break contracts and worm their way out of a legally binding agreement.

Producers...
 
In this case unions are a good thing. Voice actors in video games are being asked to do more and getting treated fairly poorly by game studios. It's pretty obvious that publishers and developers still have no understanding about the impact of quality voice acting on their work and just why people get attached to specific voices for characters. Just in the last couple years we've seen mass outcry due to studios replacing the voices for characters like Sam Fisher, Big Boss, and Frank West and the excuses offered by publishers are nonsensical and ridiculous.
 
I side with the voice actors in this one. Has anyone seen the behind the scenes videos on The Last of Us? A lot of these actors are doing full mocap that doesn't look any different than what other actors do for movies. Great voice acting and script is essential to story driven games.
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
I side with the voice actors in this one. Has anyone seen the behind the scenes videos on The Last of Us? A lot of these actors are doing full mocap that doesn't look any different than what other actors do for movies. Great voice acting and script is essential to story driven games.
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And did you see how much the main cast got paid for TLoU or Uncharted? Way, way above "scale". Most games made today don't go to that level of performance, 99.9% of the audio is captured in a comfy sound booth, and the pro voice actors show up at normal hours to normal places (unlike movie set times and locations), don't have to go through wardrobe and makeup, and some can even "phone it in" and work remotely (provided they have pro-grade hardware at home). Main cast performances are no longer than 4 hours daily, and more often than not, just one hour daily. Actors let you know if they have something else scheduled for the day/week of the scheduled recording, so you can arrange for them to do the "stressful" lines when it's best for them (you know, the yelling, screaming, voice-tiring bits).

As a narrative designer for some AAA titles, I've worked with many of the "big name" video game voice actors, and many less well-known actors, along with a few traditional Hollywood actors. To a person, they all say that voice work for video games is easier than movie work, pays well for the time invested, gives them lots of flexibility, and they often have more fun in most cases. But almost all of them are in SAG/AFTRA already, because of the movie/TV work they do...so of course they're going to leverage this to angle for more money, especially when they see how much money the gaming industry makes these days. What they forget is that only a handful of the games they work on actually make money (unlike movies, which other than rare blockbuster bombs, tend to earn out thanks to home video and streaming adding to the take).

SAG/AFTRA needs to be careful there though. Cheaper these days to cast and record in the UK, where there's no union, no shortage of actors that can do convincing accents (including American) and reuse rights can be bought for a reasonable up-front payement, with the added benefit of having more "professional" trained voices (thanks, BBC Radio and Shakespeare!) and people almost always showing up on time without using the excuse of "LA traffic, man!". Oh, and spending a few weeks in London for a recording session is a lot more fun for the video game design/audio crew than spending a few weeks in LA. Just sayin'.

And I'll leave you with an example of SAG/AFTRA stupidity. We were releasing a stand-alone expansion to a product, and because it was a new SKU, it was cheaper by far to have the original voice cast come back and re-record the same lines for multiplayer speech than to pay the additional licensing fees to re-use the old material. We're talking six-figures cheaper (even though it was a major pain in the ass on our end, and ate weeks of dev time).
 
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snicker one minute of film can take eight actual hours of filming or recording... but usually most companies pay based on what is used not what is filmed... so ask yourself how much you make a day? Most of the issues are known which is why the attorneys keep screaming they talked to the media... since most of the issues end up in one movie/tv or another... like method acting is handing the actors a bunch of scenes where they are supposed to advance the story but are filmed until they say something funny while going through the scenes. Meaning they film until something that has emotion and is not in the script because it something going on in the actors lives off camera comes up that fits into the scene and has emotion that was missing form the preceding two hundred takes... most of the producers look for wealthy people and companies that can not touch their assets right now but loans can be set against them, so that the movie can spend against that for salaries and costs then make money and pay back more money that is in the trust funds and so forth that might not be available for ten or fifteen years when the child turns eighteen or what ever the trust contracts state. I have one that one of the holly wood actor guilds tried getting but was unwilling to explain anything before I signed anything and I decided that was nuts. So I am stuck waiting another two years for my trust fund. Sure I could have used the money back in twenty ten but having seen how holly wood works I might or might not have seen a penny of it...
 
EvilWays said:
Why not have a different voice actor for Big Boss? Why should he sound exactly like Solid Snake?
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If it was different for MGS3 that would have made sense, but it wasn't. It wasn't different for Peace Walker. It wasn't different when Big Boss appeared at the end of MGS4. Hayter is Big Boss just like he is Solid Snake. It also makes sense as Solid is supposed to be the perfect clone of Big Boss so them both sounding the same works in-universe.
 
I admit I was surprised when I learned the voice actors for GTAV were also the likenesses used and, I assume, MoCapped as well........but I'm also assuming that pay scale counts for more than just voiceover work......
 
I am fine with them being paid fairly for work rendered such as mocap or stuff like that vs only doing voice work. However some of their demands while they might seem "reasonable" aren't fair to everyone else working on the game as they are wanting more than anyone else gets. Such as all voice actors should receive an equal cut of revenue from the game for the rest of time. You don't see that for all movies out there. You can't use a non union person in a game if you use a single union person. Look at something like Boderlands, Claptrap is voiced by one of the execs at the company. He wouldn't be able to do that voice any more without joining the actor's union and start paying fees even though he isn't an actor or voice actor. He just did that on the side. If they kept having him do the voice then they couldn't use any real voice actors.
 
Probleminfected said:
Yes unions. Until you work in the industry you really have no clue how bad non-union gigs are.

Considering that an extra with one line gets a min of $600 in tv/movies, makes these video game rates suck.

I have to fight constantly with the above the liners, they are always trying to break contracts and worm their way out of a legally binding agreement.

Producers...
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Sounds to me live Voice actors or actors in general are just grossly overpaid. I sure as shit don't get paid $100+ an hour for sitting in a nice air conditioned/heated studio on my ass talking into a microphone.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Sounds to me live Voice actors or actors in general are just grossly overpaid. I sure as shit don't get paid $100+ an hour for sitting in a nice air conditioned/heated studio on my ass talking into a microphone.
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That's because you're not in a union.

People work hard to get where they are at. The only people that diss people for making good money are jealous people that aren't willing to put in the work or lack the talent.

I'm just lowly lighting dept bestboy (Foreman) but I'm around union, non-union, sag, teamsters all day long and the people with the stronger unions (not mine, IATSE) make the most money, i.e. Sag, teamsters.

Also, I'm married to a producer and a partner at a large production company and we aren't living in some high horse here in LA. So again, if you aren't involved and never have been, it's pretty hard to make judgement calls on things you know nothing about...
 
Probleminfected said:
That's because you're not in a union.

People work hard to get where they are at. The only people that diss people for making good money are jealous people that aren't willing to put in the work or lack the talent.

I'm just lowly lighting dept bestboy (Foreman) but I'm around union, non-union, sag, teamsters all day long and the people with the stronger unions (not mine, IATSE) make the most money, i.e. Sag, teamsters.

Also, I'm married to a producer and a partner at a large production company and we aren't living in some high horse here in LA. So again, if you aren't involved and never have been, it's pretty hard to make judgement calls on things you know nothing about...
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I'm hardly jealous. I just think it is laughable that people making that kind of money for something that requires no education and very little physical effort are crying they are being treated badly and not making enough.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I'm hardly jealous. I just think it is laughable that people making that kind of money for something that requires no education and very little physical effort are crying they are being treated badly and not making enough.
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Well turn the sound off on your games and animated movies then...

The only time you can tell it's wrong is when it's done poorly by crappy actors. Nobody complains or notices when it done perfectly by professionals.
 
Probleminfected said:
Well turn the sound off on your games and animated movies then...

The only time you can tell it's wrong is when it's done poorly by crappy actors. Nobody complains or notices when it done perfectly by professionals.
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Doesn't make it hard.

Sorry, you aren't going to convince me that people making $100 an hour plus are under paid.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Doesn't make it hard.

Sorry, you aren't going to convince me that people making $100 an hour plus are under paid.
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So speaking for hours on end without your voice getting destroyed isn't hard?

Good voice actors can alter their voice to make themselves sound differently. That takes time and a ton of practice. It also means they have to constantly keep up a voice that is not natural to them for several hours sometimes. This also takes a lot of vocal practice.

That is also ignoring that a lot of times these days voice acting also involves motion or performance capture. Meaning the VA is also expected to do facial and body movement acting. It's not just standing (I've only seen a handful of videos of VA's actually sitting down to record lines) and reading lines from a script.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Doesn't make it hard.

Sorry, you aren't going to convince me that people making $100 an hour plus are under paid.
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So only a few people on the top get to cash in? Because I'll tell you I'm around big names almost everyday of work I get and the people on top usually do the least amount of "hard" work.

If people can get more by fighting to get more, more power to them.

Your 40 hour work week is brought you by people that taught to get more.

Your weekend is brought to you by people that taught to get more.

The list goes on and on.

If something cannot be done without you or your talents, you have the right to ask for what you want. Without good voice actors your games and animated movies would suck.

Just remember the people on top are just sitting back in their comfy chairs collecting money off the backs of other people's "hard" work.
 
The two of you are entirely missing my point. The piece reads like they are poor and abused. I'm simply stating that I don't buy that for an instant.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
The two of you are entirely missing my point. The piece reads like they are poor and abused. I'm simply stating that I don't buy that for an instant.
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The game industry isn't exactly well know for treating employees well.
 
Derangel said:
The game industry isn't exactly well know for treating employees well.
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But these people don't work in the game industry. They are brought in for a few hours of work (compared to the overall project timeline). They are contractors who render a service and then are gone within the course of a few days. Do you think the voice of Mario is in the studio for the same number of hours as the developers of any Mario game?
 
Dekoth-E- said:
The two of you are entirely missing my point. The piece reads like they are poor and abused. I'm simply stating that I don't buy that for an instant.
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you mean you don't cry when a person making $250 million a year to try to hit a ball cries that they didn't get a free $1 million car for being in their commercial?
 
Exavior said:
you mean you don't cry when a person making $250 million a year to try to hit a ball cries that they didn't get a free $1 million car for being in their commercial?
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Not even a sniffle.

That said, I don't mind them making that kind of money. Just don't try and play the victim card when you are making money hand over fist.
 
Exavior said:
But these people don't work in the game industry. They are brought in for a few hours of work (compared to the overall project timeline). They are contractors who render a service and then are gone within the course of a few days. Do you think the voice of Mario is in the studio for the same number of hours as the developers of any Mario game?
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No, but comparing it to a game with very little voice acting is a bit ridiculous. What about something like a big RPG or something like Uncharted where there are tons of lines to read? VA's could spend 8-10+ hours a day for weeks recording lines. Then spend time do performance and motion capture. Should they not be compensated for extra work? The issue at question is that they're being asked to do work outside of normal scope of their job and not getting paid for that extra work. If you were told you had to do duties at your job outside the scope of what you were hired for that would require significantly more of your time would you do it for free?
 
Derangel said:
No, but comparing it to a game with very little voice acting is a bit ridiculous. What about something like a big RPG or something like Uncharted where there are tons of lines to read? VA's could spend 8-10+ hours a day for weeks recording lines. Then spend time do performance and motion capture. Should they not be compensated for extra work? The issue at question is that they're being asked to do work outside of normal scope of their job and not getting paid for that extra work. If you were told you had to do duties at your job outside the scope of what you were hired for that would require significantly more of your time would you do it for free?
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This exactly.

There also seems to be a misconception that these voice actors work regularly which, I can assure you, they do not. Unless you are one of the few recognizable voice actors/an actual celebrity, most voice actors I've worked with are lucky to get more than 15 hours a month for this kind of work. The overwhelming majority of voice actors have to supplement their income with other work - in the best case that work is still in the entertainment industry. $100 sounds like a lot to people that work 30-40 hours a week but, as a creative independent contractor (which is what most voice actors are hired as), this amount barely covers basic living expenses in LA.
 
Krixon said:
This exactly.

There also seems to be a misconception that these voice actors work regularly which, I can assure you, they do not. Unless you are one of the few recognizable voice actors/an actual celebrity, most voice actors I've worked with are lucky to get more than 15 hours a month for this kind of work. The overwhelming majority of voice actors have to supplement their income with other work - in the best case that work is still in the entertainment industry. $100 sounds like a lot to people that work 30-40 hours a week but, as a creative independent contractor (which is what most voice actors are hired as), this amount barely covers basic living expenses in LA.
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Outside of those few big names I'd say the only ones with more steady work are those few attached to specific high profile studios. Like the core group that Disney animation works with for cartoons or the 3 or 4 anime dubbing studios left in North America.
 
Derangel said:
No, but comparing it to a game with very little voice acting is a bit ridiculous. What about something like a big RPG or something like Uncharted where there are tons of lines to read? VA's could spend 8-10+ hours a day for weeks recording lines. Then spend time do performance and motion capture. Should they not be compensated for extra work? The issue at question is that they're being asked to do work outside of normal scope of their job and not getting paid for that extra work. If you were told you had to do duties at your job outside the scope of what you were hired for that would require significantly more of your time would you do it for free?
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I am sorry but you asked that question to the wrong person. I am probably the absolute worst choice you could have made out of everyone here. No lets be clear that free and for a different wage are different. I was hired to do one task at work, then quickly started working about 60 hours a week instead of 40 as I was doing my original task by many other task. Over time as I have been promoted by list of extra task that I have to take care of has increased. And I have been fine with that. I have put in a few 60 - 70 hour weeks. Last week I put down 55 on my time sheet. The was about 6 hours I worked on things while watching tv at home and didn't bother putting down so that is giving them some free time. But for the time that I am getting paid for, I am getting paid a certain amount to work. If my 40 hours is 40 hours of meetings, 40 hours of getting paid to do my actual job, or 40 hours helping somebody else do their job. Don't really care any way as I am getting paid to work and am content with my employer utilizing me however they feel best.

Going back to the rest of your statement. Even with something where a person works 300 hours on recording lines. they still are not working the same hours as the artist and programmers so they aren't being subjected to the same harshness that those guys are. That was my point, the people getting fucked are the programmers that work 18 hours days 7 days a week for a year then get laid off.

Should a voice actor get paid for their time? yes. should they be paid for all work done? yes. Should al the voice actors split 85% of the money a game makes because without them the game would be nothing? No. This all goes back to GTA 4. The person that did the voice for the main player was upset that once the game sold well that he didn't get extra pay as he didn't think it was fair that he was only paid for his services rendered when recording and do all that work and yet the game made a lot of money. Flash forward to today and now you have more people in the same boat. They feel that without their voice or motion capture that the game would have failed thus they should get a share of the money that the game makes. However if the game fails due to bad acting I bet you wont' find anyone willing to give back what they made for being in the game and causing it to fail. IF a company wants to give you a share of the profits that is fine. That is part of getting a contract. However that should not be a requirement that you are entitled to X percent of money made from the game. You are paid for a service. Just like the guy you pay to paint your house. When you sell it you don't have to give him a share of what you made even if somebody says the only reason they bought it was because the great paint job.
 
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