Sad Days for PC Gaming

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Fire488 said:
My son plays the Xbox 360 and my PC has significantly better hardware and monitor and yet that game plays smoothly and looks amazing on his Xbox.
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What game are yuo talking about? If you've not done multi-monitor, multi-GPU and 3D you have NO idea what amazing looks like.

As long as there's people like me that spend the cash we do on PC gaming, it's not going anywhere. Console hardware is not self-sufficient, without people buying PC hardware consoles simply couldn't make it on their own.
 
I understand where OP is coming from like many here. I really think all he was looking for was a shoulder to cry on and perhaps some encouragement. While I think these type threads can get old fast I cant help but kinda feel sorry for the OP. OP gets told to "go play his fucking Xbox" by Kyle. Wow. Not even sure what to think of [H] anymore.
 
fattypants said:
Hmm...I think I'll make this my standard response to these threads instead of typing out some thoughtful piece that will be ultimately ignored by the OP.
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The last time I thought this about one of these threads, the Mangina was born. :D
 
Played Bad Company 2 on the PS3 and was impressed.
Played Bad Company 2 on the PC and was amazed.
Played Bad Company 2 on the PC in Eyefinity...I jizzed.
 
TheToE! said:
While I think these type threads can get old fast I cant help but kinda feel sorry for the OP
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You have to feel sorry for us, too, for being subjected to the repetitive cycle of short-sighted kids that say the same things year after year. We get the same thread every week with a slightly different and meaningless angle for each one. The wear of hearing it for two or three decades after it gets proven wrong every time gets to you after a while, you know?

Most PC gamers are perfectly happy with PC games today. If someone thinks that every game is just a console port, then they must only be playing games published by Activision, Ubi, and EA. If the posters of these threads looked outside of the juggernaut publishers, they'd find a vast and lush gaming landscape.

The people who start these threads need to get together and form a game company that embodies everything they ever ask for in every one: ridiculously high graphics and impossible difficulty.
 
Fire488 said:
Kyle I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and your reviews. I am not sure if that was directed at me.
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I am pretty sure it was. OP = original poster which was you.

Fire488 said:
Licensing costs affect both console and PC games so that’s a wash there. The cost of development for a console over the PC is significantly cheaper and easier just because the hardware is the same for every unit.
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You design for the API. You don't make different code paths for every single graphics card and or CPU.
 
Also, maybe there should be a sticky for this?

How many times are we going to have to read through this exact same thread? We could put it alongside the '360 vs PS3' thread, and the 'controller vs mouse and keyboard' thread. And let's not forget about the 'Nvidia vs ATI' thread or the 'PC vs Mac' thread. I think we should sticky a DRM debate thread somewhere too, since we seem to rehash that one every four months or so. and while we're at it, a growing number of people seem to think that Steam is evil, while an equal number of people seem to believe that Steam should rule the world, so maybe we ought to sticky that too.
 
WabeWalker said:
Also, maybe there should be a sticky for this?

How many times are we going to have to read through this exact same thread? We could put it alongside the '360 vs PS3' thread, and the 'controller vs mouse and keyboard' thread. And let's not forget about the 'Nvidia vs ATI' thread or the 'PC vs Mac' thread. I think we should sticky a DRM debate thread somewhere too, since we seem to rehash that one every four months or so. and while we're at it, a growing number of people seem to think that Steam is evil, while an equal number of people seem to believe that Steam should rule the world, so maybe we ought to sticky that too.
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yeah, there's so much arguing on this vs that.

am i weird that i would gladly enjoy gaming on my pc, ps3, xbox 360 and wii and enjoy the best each has to offer?
 
WabeWalker said:
Also, maybe there should be a sticky for this?

How many times are we going to have to read through this exact same thread? We could put it alongside the '360 vs PS3' thread, and the 'controller vs mouse and keyboard' thread. And let's not forget about the 'Nvidia vs ATI' thread or the 'PC vs Mac' thread. I think we should sticky a DRM debate thread somewhere too, since we seem to rehash that one every four months or so. and while we're at it, a growing number of people seem to think that Steam is evil, while an equal number of people seem to believe that Steam should rule the world, so maybe we ought to sticky that too.
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No, I think these threads are like gaming clan introductory threads. Like

" Hi I'm such and such" but I think the assumption on H is that you get more friends quicker if you incite a flame war.
 
The whole point of this post was to express my sadness at the way the PC gaming industry is going with console ports vs true PC games. I never said PC gaming was dying, Steam was great or evil, nothing.
As usual the people that are replying here never took the time to read the original post. they just responded to what other people said that did not read the original post either so the whole meaning was lost midway down page 1.

UNCLE! I GIVE! YOU WIN! Please enjoy your console ports [H].

I will enjoy my true PC games and keep on urging hardware companies to keep their collective noses to the grind stone in urging game developers to develop some true PC games again...

I have a good rep here and have NEVER trolled or flamed a post. I did not mean for this post to go in that direction either.

If possible can an admin/ moderator remove or lock this post.
Thanks.
 
I agree with you completely for what its worth. I too want games that are developed exclusively for PC hardware. I am sick of ports. Give me a game that pushes my hardware and that a console couldn't even dream to play. I really don't understand the responses that you got here today. One in particular.
 
I doubt anyone had a problem with you voicing your disappointment. But when you’re stubbornly claiming that your son’s Xbox 360 and his Black Ops game is mysteriously different from what everyone else is playing — that’s something people, unsurprisingly, will have a problem with.

Even the shoddiest port to PC looks better than its console counterpart, just for the sole fact that you’re allowed to change to a higher game resolution, contrary to console — where the games use a set native resolution. On console, demanding titles like Black Ops, are rendered at lower than 1080p, your TV being in 720p or 1080p doesn’t matter, that’s just upscaling and nowhere near the quality you can achieve with higher resolution on PC.

In the case of Black Ops, its resolution on Xbox 360 is a meager 1040x608, on the PS3 960x544. In other words, well below the true 1920x1080+ resolutions the PC can run the game at. Just looking at that information, it’s a given that the PC version will have a clarity the consoles just can’t match. In addition, individual game textures are of higher resolution, on console ranging from 256x256 to 1024x1024, while on PC anything up to 4048x4048. There’s more, but those two things alone makes for a big difference in image quality.

If you can’t see that, you’re doing something wrong.
 
erikbc said:
I doubt anyone had a problem with you voicing your disappointment. But when you’re stubbornly claiming that your son’s Xbox 360 and his Black Ops game is mysteriously different from what everyone else is playing — that’s something people, unsurprisingly, will have a problem with.

Even the shoddiest port to PC looks better than its console counterpart, just for the sole fact that you’re allowed to change to a higher game resolution, contrary to console — where the games use a set native resolution. On console, demanding titles like Black Ops, are rendered at lower than 1080p, your TV being in 720p or 1080p doesn’t matter, that’s just upscaling and nowhere near the quality you can achieve with higher resolution on PC.

In the case of Black Ops, its resolution on Xbox 360 is a meager 1040x608, on the PS3 960x544. In other words, well below the true 1920x1080+ resolutions the PC can run the game at. Just looking at that information, it’s a given that the PC version will have a clarity the consoles just can’t match. In addition, individual game textures are of higher resolution, on console ranging from 256x256 to 1024x1024, while on PC anything up to 4048x4048. There’s more, but those two things alone makes for a big difference in image quality.

If you can’t see that, you’re doing something wrong.
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I cannot prove to you what i said about the XBox to PC comparison, but on my honor I swear to God almighty that CoD Black Ops and only that game looks better on my son's XBox than on my PC. That is what I see. The view distance is far better and the picture just looks better over all. This test was done on the same PC monitor as I have stated in the past. It is true and I am not being stubborn. My son's Xbox 360 is new and renders 1080P. My PC is 1680 x 1050.
Did you do the same test that i did? Or are just assuming this to be true?
 
Fire488 said:
If possible can an admin/ moderator remove or lock this post.
Thanks.
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You don't even need a moderator. You can delete your own words.

And we're not trying to force you into submission; we are just sick of your kind. Nothing personal.

A lot of us read through your original post and found that none of your points are as original or different as you seem to think they are. Please don't be offended when we use unoriginal arguments to counter unoriginal thoughts. We hear you and your type loud and clear. "We want better graphics! We want more complex games!". Maybe the better graphics isn't out there, but the more complex games are most certainly there...the fact that you complain that everything is a console port indicates that you're not playing anything but games from major publishers who do nothing but port console games.
 
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your son's 360 is scaling it to 1080p but it's not rendering the game at 1920x1080. only a select few 360 games actually render at native 1080p on the 360. sacred 2 is one of them that comes to mind.

i've tested a couple games on my 23" monitor (1920x1080) and compared the 360 version to the pc version, and the difference was night and day. the 360 version looked obviously scaled compared to the pc version which rendered it natively at 1920x1080.
 
Fire488 said:
My son's Xbox 360 is new and renders 1080P. My PC is 1680 x 1050.
Did you do the same test that i did? Or are just assuming this to be true?
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No, it renders 608P in the case of this game.
 
Fire488 said:
I cannot prove to you what i said about the XBox to PC comparison, but on my honor I swear to God almighty that CoD Black Ops and only that game looks better on my son's XBox than on my PC. That is what I see. The view distance is far better and the picture just looks better over all. This test was done on the same PC monitor as I have stated in the past. It is true and I am not being stubborn. My son's Xbox 360 is new and renders 1080P. My PC is 1680 x 1050.
Did you do the same test that i did? Or are just assuming this to be true?
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Your XBox 360 DOES NOT RENDER AT 1080P!!! There's a difference between being scaled to 1080p and rendering at 1080p. I can maybe name 5 games at best on both the PS3 and XBox 360 which render at 1080p and are not Indie games. Your PC though can render at whatever resolution it's capable of.

As I stated in an earlier post, I have a perfectly capable PC (I need to update my sig, which is using older hardware), and also can screen capture the XBox 360 in digital mode to get a true 1080p demonstration of what the image trully looks like. YouTube doesn't help because it horribly compresses the images. Sorry, the only game I have on the PC and 360 and PS3 is Oblivion, and being a first gen 360/PS3 game, the graphics are kind of horrible, and don't stand up to a base PC comparison. But I'll gladly rent one game and give you a screen by screen comparison if you want to name it. True 1080p digital comparison. Yet I still don't think even with the truth blaring straight into your eyes that you'll give up these falsities you cling onto...
 
We have so many ways now to differentiate the experience. Push your machine with an Eyefinity/Surround setup. Get a higher resolution display. I think blaming the consoles for games not hermorrhaging your machine is a bit off target. Hardware has been growing at such an exponential rate for so long that eventually it had to surpass the software we had available. At least from my perspective, we've hit that. The traditional gaming application (23-24" monitor) just doesn't push it. This is not the software developers problem but the hardware being so overpowered. We now get to stretch the boundaries of what's possible. Higher resolutions, more displays, it's a wonderful time to game.
 
and being a first gen 360/PS3 game, the graphics are kind of horrible
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Who are you kidding the games even today still look Horrible with the Exception of a couple. Jagged edges, Washed out colors, Painted Sky & backgrounds, No Real Detail to Bricks & Surroundings. I have both PS3 & 360 & ive played them to death. They are not impressive by any means.

Gears comes to mind on the 360 Very well done & Uncharted/GOW comes to mind for the PS3.
 
Nytegard said:
Your XBox 360 DOES NOT RENDER AT 1080P!!! There's a difference between being scaled to 1080p and rendering at 1080p.
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Almost everyone on internet forums could make this their sig and people still would not get it. It crushes my soul when normally intelligent friends/coworkers of mine fall into this trap and also think their console natively renders everything in 1080P :(
 
4LC4PON3 said:
Who are you kidding the games even today still look Horrible with the Exception of a couple. Jagged edges, Washed out colors, Painted Sky & backgrounds, No Real Detail to Bricks & Surroundings. I have both PS3 & 360 & ive played them to death. They are not impressive by any means.

Gears comes to mind on the 360 Very well done & Uncharted/GOW comes to mind for the PS3.
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I'm talking about in comparison to the rest of the system. First gen games of a console will typically look worse than second/third gen. Usually many first gen games were games going to be designed on the previous gen of a console, and at the last minute were ported over. As such, they're typically rushed (more than most games), and use inferior versions of the SDK's.

But coming from my end, outside of a few Indie games, Oblivion is the only game I have on the PC and XBox and PS3. Why would I spend money on Black Ops for a console when I have it on the PC?

I have no problem renting a game (but not more than one, as it really will be a pointless exercise of futility) to do a digital 1080p shot by shot comparison. Videos on youtube really can't do justice as YouTube tends to horribly compress the videos. My BlackOps and MoH videos I've posted on YouTube look absolutely dreadful. (I could post them on my website with lossless compression, but that's designed for professional use, and not HardForum Troll quelling). And true, comparisons already exist on the internet, but often times they're limited to 720p images, which doesn't give a realistic view of what 1080p would give and how bad the consoles look in comparison.
 
I see where the OP is coming from. What made PC great back in the day were the countless mods for games such as Quake 2 and Half Life via Quake Hotel and what not from Neil Manke for Half Life.

Looking at older games from moddb such as Doom 3 and Crysis brings back lack luster results.

The problem with PC gaming these days is the modding community isnt what it used to be. I probably played Rogue Spear for a good 3 years solely due to mods

I definitely still enjoy playing PC only games such as Killing Floor and on the RTS side Starcraft 2
 
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Sixthsense said:
I see where the OP is coming from. What made PC great back in the day were the countless mods for games such as Quake 2 and Half Life via Quake Hotel and what not from Neil Manke for Half Life.

Looking at older games from moddb such as Doom 3 and Crysis bring back lack luster results.

The problem with PC gaming these days is the modding community isnt what is used to be. I probably played Rogue Spear for a good 3 years solely due to mods
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Modding got a lot more complex and time consuming as games themselves got a lot more complex and time consuming to develop. There are a lot of modders out there and a lot of mods, but less and less games are offering modding tools and its simply not possible or not worth the effort to hack some of the games to make them moddable.
 
4LC4PON3 said:
WOW never thought id see the great Kyle in here :)
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BROWNNOSER.png
 
Sixthsense said:
I see where the OP is coming from. What made PC great back in the day were the countless mods for games such as Quake 2 and Half Life via Quake Hotel and what not from Neil Manke for Half Life.

Looking at older games from moddb such as Doom 3 and Crysis brings back lack luster results.

The problem with PC gaming these days is the modding community isnt what it used to be. I probably played Rogue Spear for a good 3 years solely due to mods

I definitely still enjoy playing PC only games such as Killing Floor and on the RTS side Starcraft 2
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Crysis actually has a huge amount of user made mods.
 
All kidding aside, games have become MUCH more complex. It may not necessarily be as easy to just dive in and start modding games as it used to be.

I do miss the good ol' days though
 
Fire488 said:
As usual the people that are replying here never took the time to read the original post.
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Your original post WAS rather long.

Some of us - I think a lot of us, actually - visit forums such as this during our workday. Five minutes spent at the Hardforum every couple of hours can be nice. I can't read through every post of every thread, especially when the post is THAT long. LOL!

"... well, then, Wabe, if you aren't going to read it, then maybe you shouldn't respond to it."

Yeah, well, shoot me.
 
Not sure if this thread is locked yet, still on page 3, but the chart on this page is truly amazing. Spilled Rockstar on my keyboard (work comp so its ok).
 
RyanLucier said:
All kidding aside, games have become MUCH more complex. It may not necessarily be as easy to just dive in and start modding games as it used to be.

I do miss the good ol' days though
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I think that PC gamers come in two basic variaties. One's who care about hacking games and ones that love the power that PC games provide. The OPs remark about Black Ops for instance. While it doesn't work out of the box Black Ops on Surround is amazing and the 3D has quirks but it's still pretty jizzy looking. The console versions are PAINFUL for me to look at.

When you play games on a modern $5000 PC there's just nothing a console will do for you afterward.
 
Also, while I think there are many flaws with the OP's statements, I also miss the quality of games that we used to get. For me, that is regardless of PC/Console, there is just less quality games (IMO). I guess I just think of it as, less companies around striving to make awesome games, and more companies pushing out games to have bigger numbers on a report of a bigger company.

Anyways, I game on a PC because it is fun to me, it was and still is. When the day comes when it is no longer fun, I will stop. Game on fuckers.
 
fattypants said:
You don't even need a moderator. You can delete your own words.

And we're not trying to force you into submission; we are just sick of your kind. Nothing personal.

A lot of us read through your original post and found that none of your points are as original or different as you seem to think they are. Please don't be offended when we use unoriginal arguments to counter unoriginal thoughts. We hear you and your type loud and clear. "We want better graphics! We want more complex games!". Maybe the better graphics isn't out there, but the more complex games are most certainly there...the fact that you complain that everything is a console port indicates that you're not playing anything but games from major publishers who do nothing but port console games.
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What do you mean, "my kind”? I am a tried and true PC gamer and I take offense to that. I have an impeccable reputation on every board that post on and moderate I actually care about PC gaming and its community on a whole. I would not have made a post like this if I did not care. The entire post was taken out of context and as a troll or flame post and my intent were not meant to do that.

I don’t see a problem, nor will I apologize for demanding better. I do want better games that demand better hardware and I realize that my thoughts are not original. I never said they were you did. I did indicate that I ONLY play first person shooters from the get go. I purchase just about every FPS that comes out and I review them that is true. They are not at all what they used to be.

I don't like adventure games or WOW type games.

My last PC build was close to $5000.00 in 2008 I want a game that will take advantage of what my PC can do and console ports just cannot. The PC that I am about to build will cost considerably more when I am finished.
 
soul555top said:
Also, while I think there are many flaws with the OP's statements, I also miss the quality of games that we used to get. For me, that is regardless of PC/Console, there is just less quality games (IMO). I guess I just think of it as, less companies around striving to make awesome games, and more companies pushing out games to have bigger numbers on a report of a bigger company.

Anyways, I game on a PC because it is fun to me, it was and still is. When the day comes when it is no longer fun, I will stop. Game on fuckers.
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I agree that i made many flaws on that post and all I was trying to do was say what you just did. PC gaming is just not the same anymore.
 
Sixthsense said:
I see where the OP is coming from. What made PC great back in the day were the countless mods for games such as Quake 2 and Half Life via Quake Hotel and what not from Neil Manke for Half Life.

Looking at older games from moddb such as Doom 3 and Crysis brings back lack luster results.

The problem with PC gaming these days is the modding community isnt what it used to be. I probably played Rogue Spear for a good 3 years solely due to mods

I definitely still enjoy playing PC only games such as Killing Floor and on the RTS side Starcraft 2
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This is a topic I think is a bit more appropriate than the OP's. More and more AAA publishers are locking down games so that you cant mod them. Valve is currently the king of mod community friends publishers and Activision being the worst. Thats one reason I cant wait for RAGE because Id is really good about MOD's and farming out their engines.

The community is there its the DEV/publishers that get mad when we make our own damn maps.
 
Fire488 said:
My last PC build was close to $5000.00 in 2008 I want a game that will take advantage of what my PC can do and console ports just cannot. The PC that I am about to build will cost considerably more when I am finished.
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You're building a rig at least equal if not better than my sig. I'm telling you straight up, even console ports like Black Ops are AMAZING on this kind of hardware, the console version looks NOTHING like it.

$5000 PC hardware by default gives console ports abilities and beauty far beyond consoles these days.
 
Let me just state my apology to all of you for my conduct on this post.I get very emotional about PC gaming because I love it.

I realize now after speaking to an admin here that there were mant posts similar to mine on this board in the past and I did not search before making it. I do not want to beat a dead horse here. I do value your opinions as i always have.

Disregard the post and let's hope for the best with PC gaming in the future.
 
heatlesssun said:
You're building a rig at least equal if not better than my sig. I'm telling you straight up, even console ports like Black Ops are AMAZING on this kind of hardware, the console version looks NOTHING like it.

$5000 PC hardware by default gives console ports abilities and beauty far beyond consoles these days.
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I'll let you know, but I am now going with the SandyBridge setup when released thanks to Kyle's post and review of them.
My system specs are in my sig and that is what i put up against the Xbox 360 in 1080P.
 
You're still not getting that on the 360, the game you are talking about renders in ~608p, which is then upscaled. If the game on PC didn't look better, then the setting were toned down or your PC monitor isn't any good.
 
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