Ryzen AM4 mobo's with only HDMI 1.4 are stupid

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thingi

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I've noticed something by pouring over the specs of Ryzen MicroATX mobos (B350) and ATX X370 mobos:-

All boards have DVI, DP and HDMI outputs ready for Ryzen APU's to be released at some point in future. BUT there's a nasty catch to these APU's... None of the boards support HDMI 2.0 on the onboard connector. They are stuck at 4K @ 30Hz :( So no 4K output even for just bog standard Video via HDMI. That's NOT COOL for a product over six months away.

This is braindead thinking from AMD, It means no Ryzen APU HTPC's. It also begs the question of 4K Netflix on Ryzen CPU's. Do they have baked in DRM to play Netflix 4K content? From the mobo specs I'd say NO.

That's a big enough reason NOT to buy anything Ryzen based (even if the price/performance ratio is amazing), it makes current Ryzen mobo's and CPU's a dead end platform before they are even on sale.

If they supported HDMI 2.0 I'd be happy, but I honestly expected Ryzen APU & Mobo / Ryzen CPU + RX480/Polaris to support HDMI 2.0 at a minimum and 2.1 for Netflix content on TV's/Monitors.
 
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The APUs haven't been released yet. Why the hell would you buy an early AM4 board and sit on it for 6 months?

It's likely the chips aren't finished. And if Vega is to be incorporated, which also hasn't been released yet, it's likely the board makers don't have final specs yet.
 
You are just gonna have to wait for the MB to be released geared towards the APU's HDMI licenceing costs money and im guessing the 2.0 premium wasnt worth it for the initial run of MB's because none of the chips have graphics built in. I do agree it would be rather short sighted of AMD if they didnt factor in HDMI2.0 Adoption, but considering the Polaris based 460 has HDMI 2.0 Im quite confident the new APU's will have it. Up to the MB makers to cater to those HTPC folks.
 
Bowman15 said:
APU and 4K gaming?................GTFO

APU and 4K TV is fine since it's still a niche anyway.

Mobo's and APU's get updated.

Thread is misleading.
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I never said APU 4K Gaming, I'm talking about 4K Netflix video chappie.

It would appear currently Ryzen doesn't support Netflix 4K via an external gpu either. The only way to watch it on a PC @ 4K currently is via an Intel Kaby Lake iGPU with monitor/tv connected to the iGPU (not via a discrete 10*0 or RX4*0).

ARM based STB's and mobiles have better 4K output than any HTPC's at the moment and it's been this way for a while. It's embarrassing.
 
thingi said:
I never said APU 4K Gaming, I'm talking about 4K Netflix video chappie.

It would appear currently Ryzen doesn't support Netflix 4K via an external gpu either. The only way to watch it on a PC @ 4K currently is via an Intel Kaby Lake iGPU with monitor/tv connected to the iGPU (not via a discrete 10*0 or RX4*0).

ARM based STB's and mobiles have better 4K output than any HTPC's at the moment and it's been this way for a while. It's embarrassing.
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Still a "nitch" or small group of people for what you are asking. It will come chappie, and embarrassing, hardly. AMD has bigger fish to fry.
 
[QUOTE="thingi, post: 1042839132, member: 137412" STB's and mobiles have better 4K output than any HTPC's at the moment and it's been this way for a while. It's embarrassing.[/QUOTE]

I would place more blame on the DRM developers than AMD. BUT, I will say that I was hoping for an ARM chip alongside Zen to handle the mundane stuff like this. It would've also been used for encryption, etc.
 
Bowman15 said:
Still a "nitch" or small group of people for what you are asking. It will come chappie, and embarrassing, hardly. AMD has bigger fish to fry.
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It won't be 'niche' in six months. Time marches on.

As it stands at the moment I have to download torrents of 4K content to view it on my 4K Rig. When you have to 'Pirate' content you've already PAID for via subscription to watch it properly there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the industry.
 
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little of a sensational title and over reaction there buddy. it doesn't do something YOU EXPECT so its doa?! riiiight....
as stated, apus arent out so relax and don't be so quick to judge and maybe fix your tittle.
 
thingi said:
It won't be 'niche' in six months. Time matches on.

As it stands at the moment I have to download torrents of 4K content to view it on my 4K Rig. When you have to 'Pirate' content you've already PAID for via subscription to watch it properly there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the industry.
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LOL that's a pretty short time for 4K video @ 60Hz to become the mainstream standard or even a good percentage...good luck with that.
 
Bowman15 said:
LOL that's a pretty short time for 4K video @ 60Hz to become the mainstream standard or even a good percentage...good luck with that.
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Clearly you don't know what you're talking about, Even 24/30Hz 4K Netflix streams get downgraded to 1080p when using a HTPC (unless it's got a TV/Monitor connected to a Kaby Lake iGPU).

I don't feed trolls so won't reply any further to you.
 
I guess what I'm really trying to ask is why didn't they just make Ryzen mobos without HDMI, DP & DVI ports?

It would have reduced the BOM significantly (the lowered parts price could have been passed purchasers).

Everyone will need a PCIe GPU on these boards for at least six months so what's the point of under spec'ed (and currently unusable) HDMI Video output? There would have a been a point if Ryzen mobos did 4K @ 60Hz via HDMI as well as DP when APU's come along but they didn't.

It'll just mean confusion and unnecessary incompatibility when Ryzen APU's do come onto the market.
 
thingi said:
Clearly you don't know what you're talking about, Even 24/30Hz 4K Netflix streams get downgraded to 1080p when using a HTPC (unless it's got a TV/Monitor connected to a Kaby Lake iGPU).

I don't feed trolls so won't reply any further to you.
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Sounds even more niche than I thought! :wacky: Yeah OK, I'm the troll. :meh:
 
thingi said:
I guess what I'm really trying to ask is why didn't they just make Ryzen mobos without HDMI, DP & DVI ports?

It would have reduced the BOM significantly (the lowered parts price could have been passed purchasers).

Everyone will need a PCIe GPU on these boards for at least six months so what's the point of under spec'ed (and currently unusable) HDMI Video output? There would have a been a point if Ryzen mobos did 4K @ 60Hz via HDMI as well as DP when APU's come along but they didn't.

It'll just mean confusion and unnecessary incompatibility when Ryzen APU's do come onto the market.
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so that the mobo manufacturers don't have to redo all the boards when the apu launch. the cpu and apu platforms are now combined into just am4. the boards are "future proof" for when they arrive. your expectations are not those of the vast majority of the market.
 
pendragon1 said:
so that the mobo manufacturers don't have to redo all the boards when the apu launch. the cpu and apu platforms are now combined into just am4. the boards are "future proof" for when they arrive. your expectations are not those of the vast majority of the market.
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That's my point, they aren't future proofed with only HDMI 1.4 onboard. Its a perfectly reasonable expectation to have mobo HDMI 2.0 compatibility for a platform released now for APU's due six months. All GPU's released last year were HDMI 2.0 capable. There is no excuse for a product to not support it being released into the market now.

These boards are going to be in use for more like five or six YEARS.
 
pendragon1 said:
some have 1.4 some have 2.0 and 4k will depend on the cpu too, apparently.
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=874
"Support HDMI 4K@60Hz(HDMI 2.0) resolution"
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Now that's more like it. I was worried it was a platform limitation from all the mobo specs I looked at, your link has hopefully proved it's mobo/APU combo limitation which I'm fine with, I'll just avoid any board with crappy last-gen HDMI 1.4 only output (which was every one I looked at!).

The Netflix issue still won't be known till someone tests it but as Romeomium mentioned above that's really more to do with Netflix stupid DRM which still requires Kaby Lake at this point in time.
 
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I imagine the HDMI/DP specs listed are for the current AM4 Bristol Ridge parts as Raven Ridge has not been released.

They may not actually hold back Raven Ridge at all depending on how much of the output circuitry is integrated into the APU.
 
Premature analysis. Give it some time.

What I see so far is massive CPU processing ability for an incredible value.
 
Calling it 'dead end' because some of the products don't support a specific feature is pretty short sighted imo.
 
Emission said:
Calling it 'dead end' because some of the products don't support a specific feature is pretty short sighted imo.
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Well the platform does support the feature (as helpfully pointed out), but all the AM4 mobos listed without HDMI 2.0 support are a dead end for future APU's (with HTPC users in mind).

Fingers crossed there isn't an Intel/Netflix 'love-in' and we can all have a Ryzen based gaming box (with discrete gpu) that'll play 4K streamed content or a plain APU for 4K media and mild gaming for much less than what intel want for Crappy Lake.

I'd forgotten what 'platform' really means after being on intel for so long, the vast majority of 'new features' require a new socket/chipset/platform from intel for no damn good reason. On the other hand intel's way does make things more simple, It's easier to tell someone they need intel's 'x socket' and 'x cpu' for 'x feature' whereas a stable socket like AM4 introduces complexity with regards to supported features over time.
 
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How would you even verify DP1.4/HDMI 2.0 working on these boards with APUs half a year away? These ports are there for Bristol Ridges, for whatever stupid reason. And since Carrizo/Bristol is GCN1.2, no HDMI2.0 for ya.
 
Other option if it has to come down to it is to buy active DP to HDMI 2.0 adaptor:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...port_to_hdmi_2_adapter-_-12-232-065-_-Product

That BiosStar mobo with HDMI 2.0 support looks good, I hope HardOCP gets those BioStars mobo to go through. I actually like the less USB on the back and more headers on the mobo so I can get them to the front of the case where they are way more accessible and usable.
 
just wait a bit, once the mobo makers flex their legs, they will start making better stuff.
 
thingi said:
I never said APU 4K Gaming, I'm talking about 4K Netflix video chappie.

It would appear currently Ryzen doesn't support Netflix 4K via an external gpu either. The only way to watch it on a PC @ 4K currently is via an Intel Kaby Lake iGPU with monitor/tv connected to the iGPU (not via a discrete 10*0 or RX4*0).

ARM based STB's and mobiles have better 4K output than any HTPC's at the moment and it's been this way for a while. It's embarrassing.
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You lost me there:

- Since when Netflix does 4k 60hz? Every source i checked has somewhere around 25MB/s as minimal connection speed, which is not enough for half assed 4k 60Hz. Roku premiere is one of the few set top boxes that allegedly does 4k60hz, but i ask: from what content provider and over which connection?
-There is nothing stupid in Hdmi 1.4: having hdmi 2.0 would not make AM4 boards work with Netflix: it only works with kaby lake and windows 10.
- When netflix provide support for discrete GPUs amd other IGPs, including the upcoming Ryzen APus, 4k content can be streamed at 30hz, as Netflix has been doing since it started the 4k wave.

There may be a troll in room, but i think it is the troll that blames AM4 boards and Ryzen for something that is entirely Netflix's fault.
 
geok1ng said:
You lost me there:

- Since when Netflix does 4k 60hz? Every source i checked has somewhere around 25MB/s as minimal connection speed, which is not enough for half assed 4k 60Hz. Roku premiere is one of the few set top boxes that allegedly does 4k60hz, but i ask: from what content provider and over which connection?
-There is nothing stupid in Hdmi 1.4: having hdmi 2.0 would not make AM4 boards work with Netflix: it only works with kaby lake and windows 10.
- When netflix provide support for discrete GPUs amd other IGPs, including the upcoming Ryzen APus, 4k content can be streamed at 30hz, as Netflix has been doing since it started the 4k wave.

There may be a troll in room, but i think it is the troll that blames AM4 boards and Ryzen for something that is entirely Netflix's fault.
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If you've ever ran a 4K TV or Monitor over HDMI 1.4 @ 30Hz you'd know how horrible it is for simple things like browsing the web or even just navigating YouTube to play any SD/HD/4K content (you can by all means try it by lowering your refresh rate down to 30Hz if you so wish to experience the laggy pain).

There's no need to bring up the Netflix Kaby Lake requirement again because as stated previously Netflix needs a Kaby Lake CPU for the DRM + Video Codec.

Even with a Graphics Card (with the required codec support) will still require a Kaby lake processor for the DRM (GPU codec support isn't enough). No one has made public at this point if Ryzen meets the (secret) DRM requirement for Netflix or if Netflix will even enable their DRM on Ryzen.

The point i was making is that HDMI 1.4 on boards released now is insane considering all GPU's released last year supported HDMI 2.0 with good reason. This year is the year of 4K take-off (hello xbox one scorpio and PS4 Pro) and these boards will be in use for up to 5 years which is well into the point that 4K is mainstream/entry level for TV's. Read the rest of the thread before calling me a troll dude.
 
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I think someone fall for the netflix 4k scam:

-it at best a 4k 30hz stream, AFAIK. compressed to 4:2:2 or even more likely to 4:2:0
-the android set top boxes display netflix 4k at 30hz.
-watching video at 24hz or 30hz is the standard and most video content available natively mastered in 4k was NOT shooted at 60hz. upscaled 1080p video content looks like shit at 4k, more so if chroma is lost with the 4:2:0 shit they sell as 4k video.

Now comes the realization that you are not only blaming the wrong side of the issue, but that you are actually assuming you should get from ryzen something that netflix does not offer , at all, in any platform, namely: 4k 60hz, with 4:4:4 chroma.

netflix, or any other stream service, has not reached the image quality of the pecking duck video that promoted 4k years ago:

considering this originally was a 30hz video, that blows anything netflix sells today as 4k, your search for 4k 60hz streaming is misplaced, to say the least.
get gigabit internet to your house first, then flame foruns looking for a 4k60hz HTPC.
 
AMD's got to give people a reason to upgrade their boards to the new chipsets!
 
geok1ng said:
I think someone fall for the netflix 4k scam:

-it at best a 4k 30hz stream, AFAIK. compressed to 4:2:2 or even more likely to 4:2:0
-the android set top boxes display netflix 4k at 30hz.
-watching video at 24hz or 30hz is the standard and most video content available natively mastered in 4k was NOT shooted at 60hz. upscaled 1080p video content looks like shit at 4k, more so if chroma is lost with the 4:2:0 shit they sell as 4k video.

Now comes the realization that you are not only blaming the wrong side of the issue, but that you are actually assuming you should get from ryzen something that netflix does not offer , at all, in any platform, namely: 4k 60hz, with 4:4:4 chroma.

netflix, or any other stream service, has not reached the image quality of the pecking duck video that promoted 4k years ago: considering this originally was a 30hz video, that blows anything netflix sells today as 4k, your search for 4k 60hz streaming is misplaced, to say the least.
get gigabit internet to your house first, then flame foruns looking for a 4k60hz HTPC.
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I fell for no scam, I'm talking about running a Display Resolution Refresh Rate via HDMI 2.0 @ 60Hz not a Netflix video rate of 60Hz. Two different things.

Running 30Hz Display Output is god damn awful, go try it on your monitor. The difference between 4K @ 30Hz over HDMI 1.4 vs 4K @ 60Hz over HDMI 2.0 is like night and day. If you think otherwise you are clearly insane.

Whatever pulldown methods employed the higher the multiple of the source video refresh rate is the better since that equals more frames per sec to process. Some TV's do 24Hz HDMI 1.4 = 120Hz native display panel output. Most don't though.

I'm not asking for HDMI 2.1 (real variable refresh rate = real multiples so no pulldown required = better picture) on the Ryzen boards, but HDMI 2.0 should be a minimum as all grahpics cards from last year were.
 
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Why would they waste money on components no one purchasing the current motherboards will use.

It's more than likely the htpc centric motherboards will be out when the apu comes out.
 
pendragon1 said:
little of a sensational title and over reaction there buddy. it doesn't do something YOU EXPECT so its doa?! riiiight....
as stated, apus arent out so relax and don't be so quick to judge and maybe fix your tittle.
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Um ... NO .. .you're missing his point entirely and I suspect that's by design.

He is pointing out ... very clearly that it doesn't support HDMI 2.0 like ... every-fucking-one-else. They are 2 years behind on this.

That's a pretty valid reason if you ask me.

He doesn't need to fix anything. His tread his title. A lot of us share the same thoughts.
 
thingi said:
It won't be 'niche' in six months. Time marches on.

As it stands at the moment I have to download torrents of 4K content to view it on my 4K Rig. When you have to 'Pirate' content you've already PAID for via subscription to watch it properly there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the industry.
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You don't have to pirate it. Piracy is wrong. You don't have the equipment to watch it at 4k, so just watch it at a lower resolution. You're not entitled to take anything just because you want it.
 
Since there's no integrated graphics on Ryzen at the moment, a build based on onboard HDMI specifications is kinda, well, moot.

Besides, for any decent HTPC rig, its worthwhile to throw in a good silent GPU, like a very low power draw 4K ready GTX 1050, which will blow away any integrated graphics.
 
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