Ryzen 4000 APU / Zen3 News

drescherjm

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
14,927
I wish they would not use 4XXX for these since they are not Zen3 parts but I guess they have to go with the naming convention they set in the previous generations.
 

deton8

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
446
I wish they would not use 4XXX for these since they are not Zen3 parts but I guess they have to go with the naming convention they set in the previous generations.
Maybe they will go with a completely new naming convention for Zen 4?
 

Jandor

Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
594
Lisa Su confirms AMD Ryzen 4000 chips will be “coming in early 2020”

-> AMD is still sticking with its AM4 socket at least for this next generation of chips

-> Following the Ryzen 4000 APUs at the start of the year will then be the Zen 3-based CPUs, likely around the summer again. Using the 7nm+ design we can expect a 10% performance bump
Some leaks suggest 8% IPC bump and 100 and 200Mhz bump in speed against Zen 2, on pre-production which is generally way under final performance. So the difference will be huge about the same between Zen+ and Zen 2. And AMD needs that because Zen 2 only catches up with Intel Skylake IPC while Intel Ice-Lake has much better IPC and there is no doubt, even if not disclosed today, that Intel will have a big 10nm launch in the first half of 2020 for Desktops and HEDT.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
29,094
Some leaks suggest 8% IPC bump and 100 and 200Mhz bump in speed against Zen 2, on pre-production which is generally way under final performance. So the difference will be huge about the same between Zen+ and Zen 2. And AMD needs that because Zen 2 only catches up with Intel Skylake IPC while Intel Ice-Lake has much better IPC and there is no doubt, even if not disclosed today, that Intel will have a big 10nm launch in the first half of 2020 for Desktops and HEDT.

There is no big 10nm launch incoming. Just because one guy in the Canadian division of Intel says something does not mean that months and months of roadmaps and delays suddenly goes away.
 

Jandor

Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
594
There is no big 10nm launch incoming. Just because one guy in the Canadian division of Intel says something does not mean that months and months of roadmaps and delays suddenly goes away.
I don't know you but I would bet tons of money that it will happen one or two months after the new year in 2020. Just remember what I'm telling you. There are just so many indications...
Intel is sneakily moving because they have piles of CPU produced on 14nm if ever they couldn't make it to 10nm which they did. If you buy a 14nm CPU today you will be surprised by how much better its 10nm replacement will be in February. Maybe not at the same price and I bet the prices of the 14nm will go deep below what they are today even if you think the price is good, because even AMD will drop its prices.
 

kamikazi

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
1,168
I don't know you but I would bet tons of money that it will happen one or two months after the new year in 2020. Just remember what I'm telling you. There are just so many indications...
Intel is sneakily moving because they have piles of CPU produced on 14nm if ever they couldn't make it to 10nm which they did. If you buy a 14nm CPU today you will be surprised by how much better its 10nm replacement will be in February. Maybe not at the same price and I bet the prices of the 14nm will go deep below what they are today even if you think the price is good, because even AMD will drop its prices.

Brought to you by Shareblue
 

KazeoHin

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
8,381
I don't know you but I would bet tons of money that it will happen one or two months after the new year in 2020. Just remember what I'm telling you. There are just so many indications...
Intel is sneakily moving because they have piles of CPU produced on 14nm if ever they couldn't make it to 10nm which they did. If you buy a 14nm CPU today you will be surprised by how much better its 10nm replacement will be in February. Maybe not at the same price and I bet the prices of the 14nm will go deep below what they are today even if you think the price is good, because even AMD will drop its prices.

How much money are you willing bet? What are the terms?
 

SmokeRngs

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
17,480
I don't know you but I would bet tons of money that it will happen one or two months after the new year in 2020. Just remember what I'm telling you. There are just so many indications...
Intel is sneakily moving because they have piles of CPU produced on 14nm if ever they couldn't make it to 10nm which they did. If you buy a 14nm CPU today you will be surprised by how much better its 10nm replacement will be in February. Maybe not at the same price and I bet the prices of the 14nm will go deep below what they are today even if you think the price is good, because even AMD will drop its prices.

Intel isn't being sneaky about anything which could even remotely be positive. 10nm is years late and next to worthless and Intel has even admitted this. If Intel implemented some sort of solution which would fix the 10nm process they would be screaming it from the rooftops. The company cannot afford to hold back any sort of news like that and it would take something as revolutionary as a miracle fix for their 10nm process to be able to bring out something decent on 10nm. Intel also wouldn't be holding back on production of 10nm if it was fixed. The plan was to be on 10nm for CPUs years ago for more product from the same wafer space. That would have allowed Intel to keep up with demand including increased demand for anything on 10nm and free up 14nm fab space for anything which didn't need to be on 10nm as well as third party orders.

The fact of the matter is Intel 10nm is effectively dead and Intel stated this fact. You're not going to see anything new and decent until Intel gets 7nm out the door and working. It's even extremely likely that Intel has had the same problem as TSMC 7nm in that high clockspeeds cannot be achieved. That's going to amount to a regression of clock speed for Intel's top end stuff which is going to require a substantial increase in IPC just to achieve parity with current 14nm+++++++++++++++++++ chips. In case you haven't noticed, the only thing anyone has seen out of Intel 10nm are low power, low clocked and low core count mobile parts. The most likely reason for this is because that's the only thing Intel can get working with any sort of decent yield at this point. I suggest you consider that if you want any true indications of what Intel is capable of right now.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
29,094
I don't know you but I would bet tons of money that it will happen one or two months after the new year in 2020. Just remember what I'm telling you. There are just so many indications...
Intel is sneakily moving because they have piles of CPU produced on 14nm if ever they couldn't make it to 10nm which they did. If you buy a 14nm CPU today you will be surprised by how much better its 10nm replacement will be in February. Maybe not at the same price and I bet the prices of the 14nm will go deep below what they are today even if you think the price is good, because even AMD will drop its prices.

Do it...
 

Jandor

Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
594
Intel isn't being sneaky about anything which could even remotely be positive. 10nm is years late and next to worthless and Intel has even admitted this. If Intel implemented some sort of solution which would fix the 10nm process they would be screaming it from the rooftops. The company cannot afford to hold back any sort of news like that and it would take something as revolutionary as a miracle fix for their 10nm process to be able to bring out something decent on 10nm. Intel also wouldn't be holding back on production of 10nm if it was fixed. The plan was to be on 10nm for CPUs years ago for more product from the same wafer space. That would have allowed Intel to keep up with demand including increased demand for anything on 10nm and free up 14nm fab space for anything which didn't need to be on 10nm as well as third party orders.

The fact of the matter is Intel 10nm is effectively dead and Intel stated this fact. You're not going to see anything new and decent until Intel gets 7nm out the door and working. It's even extremely likely that Intel has had the same problem as TSMC 7nm in that high clockspeeds cannot be achieved. That's going to amount to a regression of clock speed for Intel's top end stuff which is going to require a substantial increase in IPC just to achieve parity with current 14nm+++++++++++++++++++ chips. In case you haven't noticed, the only thing anyone has seen out of Intel 10nm are low power, low clocked and low core count mobile parts. The most likely reason for this is because that's the only thing Intel can get working with any sort of decent yield at this point. I suggest you consider that if you want any true indications of what Intel is capable of right now.
You missed the announcement of the 38 cores Xeon based on ICe Lake architecture.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,556
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

Nightfire

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,280
Intel's 2020 10nm Desktop Launch: Cannonlake NUCs at a blazing 1.8Ghz.

Gotta dump some of that garbage 10nm stock to free up some of the primo 14nm shortages.
 

Nightfire

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,280
Back to topic, I am excited on the new Renoir APUs. Whether they use Navi or Vega, I am curious to see how they will increase bandwidth with DDR4. Perhaps they will have some sort of ESRAM akin to Xbox One, though hopefully more than 32 MB.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,556
Back to topic, I am excited on the new Renoir APUs. Whether they use Navi or Vega, I am curious to see how they will increase bandwidth with DDR4. Perhaps they will have some sort of ESRAM akin to Xbox One, though hopefully more than 32 MB.

Renoir rumored to have..
LPDDR4X-4266
 

Nobu

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
6,860
Of course the 4xxx series apus will be on am4, they're zen2 arch. As far as the 4xxx series cpus, we'll have to wait, but I'm expecting a new socket for zen3.

Regardless, can't wait to see what these APUs can do. I'm really hoping they were able to improve the graphics side and reduce the memory bottleneck a bit more. If it can beat my rx480 I'd happily upgrade, although I would miss the four extra threads I have a bit.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,556
Of course the 4xxx series apus will be on am4, they're zen2 arch. As far as the 4xxx series cpus, we'll have to wait, but I'm expecting a new socket for zen3.

guess u misses it. Zen3 aka series 4000 is am4.

“With both the Zen 2-based APUs and Zen 3 CPUs sporting the Ryzen 4000 nomenclature we’ll see a whole new generation of red team silicon flooding the market throughout the year. The good news is that AMD is still sticking with its AM4 socket at least for this next generation of chips so there’s no need to ditch your motherboard just yet.”
 

Nightfire

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,280
Of course the 4xxx series apus will be on am4, they're zen2 arch. As far as the 4xxx series cpus, we'll have to wait, but I'm expecting a new socket for zen3.

Regardless, can't wait to see what these APUs can do. I'm really hoping they were able to improve the graphics side and reduce the memory bottleneck a bit more. If it can beat my rx480 I'd happily upgrade, although I would miss the four extra threads I have a bit.

I guarantee it will not beat your RX480
 

Nobu

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
6,860
guess u misses it. Zen3 aka series 4000 is am4.

“With both the Zen 2-based APUs and Zen 3 CPUs sporting the Ryzen 4000 nomenclature we’ll see a whole new generation of red team silicon flooding the market throughout the year. The good news is that AMD is still sticking with its AM4 socket at least for this next generation of chips so there’s no need to ditch your motherboard just yet.”
Still just rumor for now. APUs will certainly be AM4 compatible, but AMD hasn't confirmed CPU compatibility.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,556
Still just rumor for now. APUs will certainly be AM4 compatible, but AMD hasn't confirmed CPU compatibility.



ok post back in a couple months then. The socket won't change. The change comes when the memory standard is changed with Zen4.
 

Jandor

Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
594
You do know that Ice Lake architecture is immense better than skylake. It starts at about 20% better IPC but goes up with the number of cores. I bet the 38 core is better than the 48 cores but Intel wasn't probably sure the 10nm will be ready so they made piles of 48 cores they have to sell, maybe at a smaller price than the 38 cores 10nm.
In fact ICe lake architecture has much better IPC than Zen 2.
 

allen200

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
119
Is there a final word on this stuff? Will there be more desktop APU's before AM4 is retired, or is the 3400G the best they will have? Mobile is nice and all, but rather hear about desktop news.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,888
Is there a final word on this stuff? Will there be more desktop APU's before AM4 is retired, or is the 3400G the best they will have? Mobile is nice and all, but rather hear about desktop news.

Pretty sure we'll see 4000 series APU's at CES, Su said "at least" this next generation will be am4, so I don't think there's any doubt at least 1 more generation of APU's (and CPU's) will be am4.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

Nobu

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
6,860
Pretty sure we'll see 4000 series APU's at CES, Su said "at least" this next generation will be am4, so I don't think there's any doubt at least 1 more generation of APU's (and CPU's) will be am4.
Yeah, 4000 series APUs will likely be zen2, so unless they decide to change the memory controller I don't see why it wouldn't be am4. If they skip zen2 for the next APUs, all bets are off.
 
D

Deleted member 89018

Guest
More cores for the APUs, definitely.

more cores in general? No idea - I don’t think anyone ever imaging just a few years ago, when quad core Skylake was king, that we’d be looking at a 16-core processor on a mainstream platform.

I can’t imagine having more than that with current system memory implementations. I think until we move to higher speed ddr5, like 6400+, 16 is probably tops.

(and you know the first ddr5 will be like... 3200 or something, because the standards organization doesn’t believe in speed).

Or i suppose if someone implements a quad channel memory controller for mainstream, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon. It’s a pretty big differentiator for HEDT/Workstation.

what I’m really curious about is whether and will take all that HBM2 expertise and throw some big “high speed cache” on the package with the integrated gpu. I doubt it, but an 8-core cpu with Navi and 4gb of onboard memory would be a real dream. And I mean, they did it with the weird kaby lake G processors and Vega, so maybe they could do it better with Zen2 and Navi. They’re already doing it with the next gen consoles, it seems, so maybe one day on the desktop...
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
29,094
You do know that Ice Lake architecture is immense better than skylake. It starts at about 20% better IPC but goes up with the number of cores. I bet the 38 core is better than the 48 cores but Intel wasn't probably sure the 10nm will be ready so they made piles of 48 cores they have to sell, maybe at a smaller price than the 38 cores 10nm.
In fact ICe lake architecture has much better IPC than Zen 2.

And you know this how? Reading a marketing slide? The kind where Intel will use old unpatched software to show their "competitive advantages."
 

N4CR

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
4,825
You do know that Ice Lake architecture is immense better than skylake. It starts at about 20% better IPC but goes up with the number of cores. I bet the 38 core is better than the 48 cores but Intel wasn't probably sure the 10nm will be ready so they made piles of 48 cores they have to sell, maybe at a smaller price than the 38 cores 10nm.
In fact ICe lake architecture has much better IPC than Zen 2.
I bet most of those gains are counting security speed cheat mitigations and best case standout IPC. Real gain probably ~10% and 10nm clocks are pathetic along with yield, so don't count your chickens yet...


Back OT, if the 8 core ccx rumors are true (i think so) then this may be an excellent apu. My main concern is Vega even with some of the navi functionality updates is getting long in the tooth, in wish they'd also focused there but I guess that'll be the 5000 series standout..
 
Top