Rumor: The Odd Gentlemen used stolen funds to develop King's Quest.

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Stiler

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https://www.reddit.com/r/homestuck/comments/3c56jt/the_odd_gentlemen_stole_kickstarter_money_for/

https://web.archive.org/web/2015070...ure-that-everyone-has-noticed-by-now-that-the


Apparently the Odd Gentlemen (developers of the new King's Quest reboot) were contracted a while back to develop a kickstarter game called hiveswap, based on the Homestuck comic series.

See the kickstarter here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14293468/homestuck-adventure-game

A quote from the original post that is from the webarchie link:

WP gave 788k to TOG in 2012 to develop hiveswap. they then proceeded to do next to nothing, completely blowing off the dev schedule that they agreed to. (the game was supposed to be done by oct 2014. instead, that was when WP ended up having to switch to in house development and start from scratch.) the doc included a detailed rundown of everything TOG actually did. in summary:

“Over 8 months of development, TOG produced exactly one “playable build”. It is a single room, involving one character, no animation, and almost no other key features. Virtually nothing works properly. It was submitted in February of 2014, and no improvements or additional versions were submitted beyond that date.
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In a promotional video for King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen allude to them being on another project and then going to King's Quest instead, go to 1:05 in thie video here:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/20/84...quest-is-in-good-hands-with-the-odd-gentlemen


I was REALLY looking forward to this new King's Quest game to, it looked so charming and like it'd be fun to play, but to take money from a kickstarter, not do the work you are being paid to do and then spending it on another project (Which has the backing of fucking ACTIVISION?!??!) is absurd.

If this is true these devs need to be fired.
 
My take from reading that is that the whole idea was probably Activision's stealth way to crowdfund whatever.
 
Not surprised that Kickstarter is mentioned in the same sentence as stolen funds.
 
When apple does this it is called innovation but when anyone else does it it is called theft. I keed I keep, sucks that they acquired those funds through dubious means and never fulfilling their original contract.
 
Climber said:
When apple does this it is called innovation but when anyone else does it it is called theft. I keed I keep, sucks that they acquired those funds through dubious means and never fulfilling their original contract.
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Odds are that there's more to this story. Given the litigious society we have in the US you can pretty much assume that there would have been legal action if there was indeed a breach of contract. Since there doesn't appear to be any pending litigation the plebs have got it wrong.
 
Weird, but at the end of the day I'm not sure why anyone would kick start a game being developed by someone whos not attached to the kickstarter. So I'm gonna pay you so you can pay someone else to make a game and then you own it. It's sounds like the comic owner took an amaturish dive into something and got burned. If I was funding a game like that out of my own pocket I'd be there everyday pushing buttons until its done. Looking at Odd gentlemen, they're talented but it's basically just a couple of college kids.

Even according to that poorly written blog he didn't seriously check in on his own game for almost a year. Even the kickstarter looks amaturish.

I actually think kickstarter is great when you fund people that actually know what they're doing, even doe-eyed Tim shafer got his game done, but you need to be clinical about it. the benefit of Double adventure was Tim's main goal was to film the project and pass or fail make a documentary about development life. A half-hour long episode came out every month where you could watch them and at least have a clear idea as to why it was getting pushed back.

You can't just gloss over a poorly run kickstarter like Uwe Bols Rampage 3 kickstarter which was completely unrealistic and didn't make any sense from the outset.
 
piscian18 said:
Weird, but at the end of the day I'm not sure why anyone would kick start a game being developed by someone whos not attached to the kickstarter. So I'm gonna pay you so you can pay someone else to make a game and then you own it. It's sounds like the comic owner took an amaturish dive into something and got burned. If I was funding a game like that out of my own pocket I'd be there everyday pushing buttons until its done. Looking at Odd gentlemen, they're talented but it's basically just a couple of college kids.

Even according to that poorly written blog he didn't seriously check in on his own game for almost a year. Even the kickstarter looks amaturish.

I actually think kickstarter is great when you fund people that actually know what they're doing, even doe-eyed Tim shafer got his game done, but you need to be clinical about it. the benefit of Double adventure was Tim's main goal was to film the project and pass or fail make a documentary about development life. A half-hour long episode came out every month where you could watch them and at least have a clear idea as to why it was getting pushed back.

You can't just gloss over a poorly run kickstarter like Uwe Bols Rampage 3 kickstarter which was completely unrealistic and didn't make any sense from the outset.
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I don't think you understand the kickstarter.

Homestuck is an online comic series. The creator (Andrew Hussie) is not a game developer and no one expected the kickstarter to be a game developed by him.

The kickstarter he made was so that he could get a developer to make the game based on his webcomic series, no one expected him to somehow do it on his own.

It's like if say, Jim Lee (comic book artist) wanted to make a video game on his own series, he'd obviously have to hire an actual game company to make it.

Also that "Blog" that I linked? That's not his blog, it's from a friend of his, his friend is the one that leaked this info (before it got deleted at the request of Andrew), that's why it's an archived post now.
 
These people just don't know how to write contracts and work with outside developers. The YogCast game failed for similar reasons:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/25/5937013/yogscast-kickstarter-yogventures-tug-nerd-kingdom

Contracts need to be structured so that the outside employees get a small amount of cash upfront, then receive additional payouts for hitting targeted milestones. Handing over huge piles of cash upfront is asking for problems.
 
It is poor management and incompetence period. When that kind of money is involved, whether at Yogscast or this "WP," any good manager or management team is going to find good lawyers in that field to make a contract for them, not google it, pull up some generic forms on the internet, and try to customize them. The people involved with the kickstarters are just as equally accountable for their poor/lazy management.
 
GearChoices said:
It is poor management and incompetence period. When that kind of money is involved, whether at Yogscast or this "WP," any good manager or management team is going to find good lawyers in that field to make a contract for them, not google it, pull up some generic forms on the internet, and try to customize them. The people involved with the kickstarters are just as equally accountable for their poor/lazy management.
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One of the most inane drivels I've ever heard.

You obviously have never been to court.

It's WP's fault that their contracted developer took their money, shit all over doing their work, then spent part of that money on another game???

If you don't understand, they already reached an agreement.

When something like this happens you end up having two choices:

1. You can settle out of court, getting a smaller payout usually but not having to drag it out in court for years+lawyer fees that add up.
2. Go to court and fight it (which takes years usually) on top of costing even more money.

For a small person that is why many corporations end up "settling" out of court, the small person can simply not afford to waste the years to fight it on top of all the legal cost/lawyers and everything else. They instead will take a smaller payout faster then wait years and spend money on a bigger payout, because they simply can not afford to waste that time and money.

Especially in this case, when they needed to still actually MAKE the game and deliver it (they didn't fold this kickstarter, the guy buckled down and got others on board to make it). He took the smaller settlement and agreement (which is why this info never came out until now, part of the settlement most likely meant that he couldn't take about it to the general public, only investors (IE kickstarters) and through kickstarter, which is how this leaked.


I just love how you try and blame the guy for the dev studio fucking him over. Like if someone broke into your house and robbed you blind it's your fault, blame the victim not the person who did it eh?
 
Stiler said:
One of the most inane drivels I've ever heard.

You obviously have never been to court.

It's WP's fault that their contracted developer took their money, shit all over doing their work, then spent part of that money on another game???

If you don't understand, they already reached an agreement.

When something like this happens you end up having two choices:

1. You can settle out of court, getting a smaller payout usually but not having to drag it out in court for years+lawyer fees that add up.
2. Go to court and fight it (which takes years usually) on top of costing even more money.

For a small person that is why many corporations end up "settling" out of court, the small person can simply not afford to waste the years to fight it on top of all the legal cost/lawyers and everything else. They instead will take a smaller payout faster then wait years and spend money on a bigger payout, because they simply can not afford to waste that time and money.

Especially in this case, when they needed to still actually MAKE the game and deliver it (they didn't fold this kickstarter, the guy buckled down and got others on board to make it). He took the smaller settlement and agreement (which is why this info never came out until now, part of the settlement most likely meant that he couldn't take about it to the general public, only investors (IE kickstarters) and through kickstarter, which is how this leaked.


I just love how you try and blame the guy for the dev studio fucking him over. Like if someone broke into your house and robbed you blind it's your fault, blame the victim not the person who did it eh?
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Did WP actually pursue legal action against TOG? Someone further up in this thread implied they had not even attempted legal action against them, which, as someone else said afterwards, would mean their contract was so poor that a lawyer could not find a way to pursue legal action against TOG with any likelihood of success. So unless their own original lawyers, if any, ripped them off too, it was the case of irresponsible/incompetent management trying to perform business activities (legal/contractual) on their own that they had no business trying to perform without outside help, especially when risking such a large sum of OTHER PEOPLE's money.

If you're saying that they successfully pursued legal action and settled out of court, you never have mentioned that in this whole thread, even after two other people implied that did not happen. If that is the case, then yeah, WP did nothing wrong. And even if WP did do something wrong, where did I defend TOG? They are obviously just as bad.

But just because you're the "small guy" does not excuse blatant mismanagement of funds. If you do not have experience in something, you surround yourself with people, whether small names or big names, that DO know what they are doing in that area, before making decisions/acting, especially with other people's donated money.

Now as I said, if they successfully pursued legal action, then ok, it's all 100% on TOG if what they say is true.
 
I agree with everything you said, GearChoices.

My first thought on reading about this was "wow, somebody put up a Kickstarter campaign with the intention of taking the money and giving it to SOMEONE ELSE to make it???" Unbelievable. If there was ever questionable activity to be found within Kickstarter, this is it. At least they didn't fold, as already mentioned.
 
Stiler said:
Like if someone broke into your house and robbed you blind it's your fault, blame the victim not the person who did it eh?
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It is absolutely your fault if you leave the door open and a big sign saying "I got 788K in cash inside this house" on your front lawn while being away for the evening.

Lack of experience doesn't excuse lack of common sense. Hire a lawyer for $150/hour to look your contract over, even if you have to pay him/her 1.5k for a days of work that's still better than being out three quarters of a million.

Yes, the "victim" is at fault. There's actually a legal term for this: contributory negligence, though it applies more so to tort rather than contracts, still, the principle that the "victim" is partially to blame still holds.
 
They should have tied the disbursements to milestones. You don't just pay the lump-sum up front, that's just asking to be taken and also tends to hinder motivation.
 
Hussie doesn't even seem to give a shit about Homestuck anymore. Why would he give a shit about a game about a comic he doesn't give a shit about? He gave up on everything and the game is just another casualty of his neglect. Blaming this on the developer is stupid when the original creator clearly didn't care.
 
GearChoices said:
Did WP actually pursue legal action against TOG? Someone further up in this thread implied they had not even attempted legal action against them, which, as someone else said afterwards, would mean their contract was so poor that a lawyer could not find a way to pursue legal action against TOG with any likelihood of success. So unless their own original lawyers, if any, ripped them off too, it was the case of irresponsible/incompetent management trying to perform business activities (legal/contractual) on their own that they had no business trying to perform without outside help, especially when risking such a large sum of OTHER PEOPLE's money.

If you're saying that they successfully pursued legal action and settled out of court, you never have mentioned that in this whole thread, even after two other people implied that did not happen. If that is the case, then yeah, WP did nothing wrong. And even if WP did do something wrong, where did I defend TOG? They are obviously just as bad.

But just because you're the "small guy" does not excuse blatant mismanagement of funds. If you do not have experience in something, you surround yourself with people, whether small names or big names, that DO know what they are doing in that area, before making decisions/acting, especially with other people's donated money.

Now as I said, if they successfully pursued legal action, then ok, it's all 100% on TOG if what they say is true.
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Yes, they already settled it out of court hence why WP can't "talk about it" and asked the original poster to take the post detailing this down. The settlement is mentioned in the main post on this whole thing, in the webarchive post since the original got taken down.

For a more detailed part on the "legal" part of this you can read this info on it from a paralegal here:
http://snarp.tumblr.com/post/123239687201/quick-primer-on-the-confidential-settlement-thing
 
Colonel Sanders said:
I agree with everything you said, GearChoices.

My first thought on reading about this was "wow, somebody put up a Kickstarter campaign with the intention of taking the money and giving it to SOMEONE ELSE to make it???" Unbelievable. If there was ever questionable activity to be found within Kickstarter, this is it. At least they didn't fold, as already mentioned.
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Questionable?

It said clearly in the kickstarter:
" I'll work with an independent game developer to create a game involving a new story based within the Homestuck universe--assuming this project is funded, of course."

No one backed this kickstarter expecting the comic creator to develop a game, they knew full well he was going ot hire an independent game developer to handle the game development with the comic guy being over story and things.


Spidey329 said:
They should have tied the disbursements to milestones. You don't just pay the lump-sum up front, that's just asking to be taken and also tends to hinder motivation.
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Sure, in hindsight that would have been smart. Does that however excuse TOG for using the money on another game and not fulfilling their contract?

The logic that WP is to blame because they didn't have this or that in the contract even though TOG are the ones that stole money and didn't do what they agreed to is just....makes me said for our society, where the people are quick to lay blame at the victim instead of actually wanting the ones whole stole or did the wrong thing to be punished instead.
 
The Steam forums were all in flames about this.......still looks like a decent game they didn't just make it cause they hated the series.
 
Stiler said:
Questionable?

Sure, in hindsight that would have been smart. Does that however excuse TOG for using the money on another game and not fulfilling their contract?

The logic that WP is to blame because they didn't have this or that in the contract even though TOG are the ones that stole money and didn't do what they agreed to is just....makes me said for our society, where the people are quick to lay blame at the victim instead of actually wanting the ones whole stole or did the wrong thing to be punished instead.
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For one, it's not really hindsight. It's Business 101 level of thinking. You don't need a degree in contract law to realize that your risk goes up for every dollar you prepay into the deal.

Two, most of us aren't absolving TOG for what they did, quite the contrary. We're just pointing out that there were mistakes made on the initiating parties side. Too much trust given or just neglect to think it through? None of which absolves TOG from what looks to be fraud.
 
As far as I can tell it's a baseless rumor with no real evidence backing it...unless there is more proof or something more creditable than an article some dude wrote or reddit etc, then yeah not gonna stop me from buying the new KQ.
 
People poured 2.5 million into a game, for a trailer that looks like it was created in MS Paint?
 
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