(Rumor) Ryzen 7000 thermals are as hot as a neutron star

Dark12

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Nothing is click bait it ls called dry humor. Man this world is full of people who wake up seek a reason to be offended.

Do you for one second think anyone is stupid enough to actually believe a cpu can be as hot as neutron star which is millions of degrees C and or the Sun's Corona which is over a Million C? Wow and you call it click bait?

The title is hyperbole and nothing more. But they don't teach the meaning of that word in schools anymore, heck they don't even teach cursive anymore.
Yikes...

I'll wait for more benchmarks at release.
 

tangoseal

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That's a function of TDP, not CPU hot spot temp. A 10,000C CPU running at 20W TDP puts less heat into the room than a 40C CPU running at 300W TDP.
This seems true. Watts are watts are watts regardless of temperature.
 

DukenukemX

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There’s some truth to it, but nothing substantial enough to really matter. The chips are going to perform and higher power draw will always mean more heat. If normal temperature is in the 80’s and your mid to high end 360mm AIO isn’t saturating and the chip is reaching a sustained max and not a thermal max then it’s doing it’s job. I’m more worried for what the Zen4 EPYC’s are gonna run me because I’m in the market for a pair of them next year. I’m getting the impression they are going to be 240v as well (my Xeons already are) and the 240 circuit I have probably won’t handle the Intels and the AMD’s.
The rumor to me seems a bit sus as it was stated by AMD that this Zen4 architecture is substantially more efficient, but now it's also substantially hotter? Wccftech states "ES/QS samples" which means these aren't final. It was a power delivery bug through the bios according to rumors. If this is true then we'll be all over it. And no, 90C or 95C is not acceptable just because AMD said so. See what happens when you thermal cycle anything thousands of times.
 

Lakados

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The rumor to me seems a bit sus as it was stated by AMD that this Zen4 architecture is substantially more efficient, but now it's also substantially hotter? Wccftech states "ES/QS samples" which means these aren't final. It was a power delivery bug through the bios according to rumors. If this is true then we'll be all over it. And no, 90C or 95C is not acceptable just because AMD said so. See what happens when you thermal cycle anything thousands of times.
Yeah but AMD also said this last year: https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperatures-up-to-95c-as-typical-and-by-design/

"Yes. I want to be clear with everyone that AMD views temps up to 90C (5800X/5900X/5950X) and 95C (5600X) as typical and by design for full load conditions. Having a higher maximum temperature supported by the silicon and firmware allows the CPU to pursue higher and longer boost performance before the algorithm pulls back for thermal reasons," Hallock said.
 
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Digital Viper-X-

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The rumor to me seems a bit sus as it was stated by AMD that this Zen4 architecture is substantially more efficient, but now it's also substantially hotter? Wccftech states "ES/QS samples" which means these aren't final. It was a power delivery bug through the bios according to rumors. If this is true then we'll be all over it. And no, 90C or 95C is not acceptable just because AMD said so. See what happens when you thermal cycle anything thousands of times.
More efficient doesn't mean it's able to dissipate heat any better. Part of the problem is that you have 6 or 8 cores crammed into a fairly small chiplet, and from Zen3 -> Zen4 the chiplet got smaller, so you have the same or more amount of heat, in a smaller area.
 

Teenyman45

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Maybe he wants to minimize heat output into his room? Otherwise, /shrug.
Something could be burning 10-20w and still be 90+ centigrade depending on how the heat source is generated. A processor that consumes ~200 watts flat out is not the worst thing in the world as long as it has an appropriate level of performance for the energy consumed.
 

DPI

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why is anyone surprised? they almost doubled rated tdp over that 3950x

at lest the 8-core continues to tread water with zen 3 (but that 6 core is a bit hard to swallow!)
The only thing this frilly fracas makes me wonder, is whether there will turn out to be some merit to the idea that AMD shrinking the die and IHS further might have pulled it below a crossover point where getting the heat out of the die quickly enough may be bottlenecked by the IHS. I've been reading some discussions about that.
 
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GoldenTiger

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Something could be burning 10-20w and still be 90+ centigrade depending on how the heat source is generated. A processor that consumes ~200 watts flat out is not the worst thing in the world as long as it has an appropriate level of performance for the energy consumed.
I know, I meant as far as total wattage. Thanks though :).
 

Armenius

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But then we wouldn't have fanboy-charged typing practice threads- "AMD this, Intel that, Nvidia the other". Any of those brandnames in a thread title and its like catnip for bored geeks.

Please don't take that away.
The day Gamespot enforced no console wars on their forums was the day I stopped visiting Gamespot.
 
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Bowman15

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Intel and AMD high end cpu's are going to run hot....get used to it. That's all I got.
 

DPI

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Seems the link in OP wasnt lying. Running temp of 95C is "working as intended".

"Not a BIOS problem, not a cooling problem, these really are this hot and that's to be expected according to AMD"



SmartSelect_20220926_064459.jpg
 
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bigdogchris

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The GN review was interesting how it showed the CPU jump to 95C almost instantly. I wonder how many countless hours people are going to spend thinking they have a bad cooler contact lol.
 

Legendary Gamer

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There’s some truth to it, but nothing substantial enough to really matter. The chips are going to perform and higher power draw will always mean more heat. If normal temperature is in the 80’s and your mid to high end 360mm AIO isn’t saturating and the chip is reaching a sustained max and not a thermal max then it’s doing it’s job. I’m more worried for what the Zen4 EPYC’s are gonna run me because I’m in the market for a pair of them next year. I’m getting the impression they are going to be 240v as well (my Xeons already are) and the 240 circuit I have probably won’t handle the Intels and the AMD’s.
Just wait until the new Intel.... 13900K comes out. It's gonna dwarf the rumors of AMD's chips being hot by a lot. Everything is gonna be hot this generation. Everything has moved from any sort of efficiency to dumping in brute force and drawing all the power necessary to get there.

As the reviews state in the above & below videos from DPI & Jim Kim , the CPU will draw as much power as it can to achieve performance prior to reaching it's thermal threshold. So, gone is anything even resembling AMD caring about thermals or efficiency. Its all about winning and staying on top. Not about being better designed, running cooler or in a certain power envelope.
 
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DPI

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As the reviews state in the above & below videos from DPI & Jim Kim , the CPU will draw as much power as it can to achieve performance prior to reaching it's thermal threshold. So, gone is anything even resembling AMD caring about thermals or efficiency. Its all about winning and staying on top. Not about being better designed, running cooler or in a certain power envelope.
But to be fair, the idea of 7950X all 16 cores @ 5.1Ghz really guns my engine. Healthy uplift over 5950X 16 cores @ 3.853Ghz.

Screenshot_20220926_070513.jpg
 

NightReaver

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So, gone is anything even resembling AMD caring about thermals or efficiency. Its all about winning and staying on top. Not about being better designed, running cooler or in a certain power envelope.
TBF consumers brought this on. You talk about power draw or heat disappation and how many people go "lol buy a bigger PSU/cooler/ get an ac".
 

T4rd

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Intel and AMD high end cpu's are going to run hot....get used to it. That's all I got.

Pretty much. I see no issue with CPUs having a higher ceiling for thermals and thus allowing for more performance. If you're not comfortable with it, then leave PBO off and don't OC and enjoy your cooler CPU and lost performance.

Would you really rather AMD or Intel artificially neuter their CPUs just so they can run cooler and not even give you that option to run them up to 115C if you wanted to? These articles and video thumbnails with fire around their logo just seem hyperbolic to me.
 

toast0

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it was stated by AMD that this Zen4 architecture is substantially more efficient, but now it's also substantially hotter?
Yeah, it's both. For same performance as zen3, it uses less watts; for same watts as zen3, it gives better performance; it can also use a lot more watts for even more performance if you can deliver the watts in and out of the chip. It's diminishing returns at the top end, but I expect to see max TDP adjustments in firmware settings like we have in AM4. Edit to add: power efficiency (compute / watt) is going to be worse as you pull more watts above some baseline, and from skimming reviews, at peak performance it's worse than previous generations --- but you get more work done, so there you go; if you want power efficiency more than performance, you probably don't want to run at 170W TDP. Looks like Anandtech did one graph of cinebench multithreaded on a 7900X at 65W (search "7950X at 65 W" to get to that section of this page)
 
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NightReaver

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Yeah, it's both. For same performance as zen3, it uses less watts; for same watts as zen3, it gives better performance; it can also use a lot more watts for even more performance if you can deliver the watts in and out of the chip. It's diminishing returns at the top end, but I expect to see max TDP adjustments in firmware settings like we have in AM4.
That would be nice to see. Wonder if there's much room for undervolting.
 

kamikazi

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But to be fair, the idea of 7950X all 16 cores @ 5.1Ghz really guns my engine. Healthy uplift over 5950X 16 cores @ 3.853Ghz.

View attachment 513824
Why are they comparing to a 5950x at 3853 MHz? Doesn't it boost higher than that? Mine boosts pretty much exactly to that all core in Cinebench right now, but mine is screwed up. It used to go higher.
 

Legendary Gamer

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TBF consumers brought this on. You talk about power draw or heat disappation and how many people go "lol buy a bigger PSU/cooler/ get an ac".
I don't disagree. I just think about the "good old days" when these companies talked about efficiency. I'm guessing these systems won't be popular in California where you can't even run a toaster oven if you wanted to during certain hours... So happy I live in the armpit of the US.
 

Legendary Gamer

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Why are they comparing to a 5950x at 3853 MHz? Doesn't it boost higher than that? Mine boosts pretty much exactly to that all core in Cinebench right now, but mine is screwed up. It used to go higher.
What I'm wondering about is how long these CPUs will run well at those thermals. Seriously, the enemy of silicon and technology is heat.

It's kind of like how every generation of device ramps up it's speed and lowers it's endurance. Take HDDs for example. Moving from 4200 RPM to 5400 RPM then 7200 RPM seemingly had a detrimental effect on HDD durability for a good long while before things leveled off. But I recall hard disks running 20+ years at one point. Nothing does that now.

High tech stuff turns into E-Waste pretty quickly these days.

Look at the TBW thresholds of older SSDs (some) vs others. The faster they transfer data, the shittier they are for durability. I saw a huge drop from the PCI-E 4.0 5000m/s to 7000m/s with the newer drives being about a third of the durability of the former.

So, I'm wondering if these new CPUs will literally "expire" when their Factory Warranties do.
 
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LukeTbk

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Intel and AMD high end cpu's are going to run hot....get used to it. That's all I got.
With the capacity of those cpus more and more will be depending on what you do, for something like a 12900K full load versus a game was quite different, review could need to show idle, low usage, couple of game (a regular and a particularly CPU heavy one) than full load, AVX load, etc..

corei9-20211116-1.jpg


Did some review for the 7600x, 7900x split the temp-watts for different common work ?

First reflexion has DDR5 start to seem to matter and the price of the high end kit is quite high, reading-looking at reviews for a not all in top budget buyer became more complicated.

Like the 12700K-12600K seem to look really good price wise over the current offer, but with high end ddr5 kit with all that come with it, which make the gap less giant.
 

DPI

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Super thick IHS to maintain a not guaranteed compatibility. In other words, they may have made a big mistake.
I can foresee the "Ryzen 7000 Delidding" forum thread here, and derbauer selling lots of de-lid kits. The temp drop with a de-lid (90C -> 71C) is massive enough that some enthusiasts will happily void warranty to not only drop temp but gain frequency / OC headroom. Who knows, AM5 could end being a real tinkering and tuning platform together with all the other new tech (DDR5, etc).

AMD may never outright state why the IHS is thicker than previous, and is arguably bottlenecking heat transfer (at least relative to AM4), but I reckon their engineers would say "the delta doesn't matter, it won't make any realworld difference to most users, and we're gaining a degree of AM4 cooler compatibility".

Nevertheless, the idea of all 16 physical cores humming at @ 5.2 - 5.4Ghz @ 71C is making me feel something.

Screenshot_20220926_105754.jpg
 
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LukeTbk

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Would need to see the benchmark difference has well, do they perform much better ? That could be the answer, maybe they work well at 90-95 and are not able to do much with the extra.
 

NightReaver

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I can already foresee the "Ryzen 7000 Delidding" forum thread here, and derbauer selling lots of de-lid kits. The temp drop with a de-lid (90C -> 71C) is massive enough that some enthusiasts will happily void warranty to not only drop temp but gain frequency / OC headroom. Who knows, AM5 could end being a real tinkering and tuning platform with all the other new tech (DDR5, etc).

AMD may never outright state why the IHS is so much thicker than previous and appears to be bottlenecking heat transfer, but I suspect their engineers would say "the delta doesn't matter, most users won't notice the difference and we're gaining a degree of AM4 cooler compatibility". Head scratcher.

View attachment 513929
Maybe we'll see some of those neat copper aftermarket IHS kits lol.
 
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DPI

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Would need to see the benchmark difference has well, do they perform much better ? That could be the answer, maybe they work well at 90-95 and are not able to do much with the extra.
That'll be the next focus of his videos it seems - seeing how much performance can actually be gained from the de-lid and temp drop. He didn't do much OC testing in that video since he was working with bone stock ES X670 boards that don't even have heatsinks on the VRM's, but he did note greater stability at higher frequency after the de-lid and temp drop.

It could end up that all it nets is 100Mhz-200Mhz per core, but still worth keeping an eye on.
 
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I can foresee the "Ryzen 7000 Delidding" forum thread here, and derbauer selling lots of de-lid kits. The temp drop with a de-lid (90C -> 71C) is massive enough that some enthusiasts will happily void warranty to not only drop temp but gain frequency / OC headroom. Who knows, AM5 could end being a real tinkering and tuning platform together with all the other new tech (DDR5, etc).

AMD may never outright state why the IHS is thicker than previous, and is arguably bottlenecking heat transfer (at least relative to AM4), but I reckon their engineers would say "the delta doesn't matter, it won't make any realworld difference to most users, and we're gaining a degree of AM4 cooler compatibility".

Nevertheless, the idea of all 16 physical cores humming at @ 5.2 - 5.4Ghz @ 71C is making me feel something.

View attachment 513929
Not just de-lid kits, but mounting hardware as well. This isn't like Intel de-lid where you can reuse the mounting hardware. The mounting hardware on these literally prevents any sort of contact with the chips. Those looking to de-lid these need not only a de-lid kit but a completely new mounting solution or run the risk of not being able to use their chip at all.
 
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sfsuphysics

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Do you want CPUs to get faster and more efficient, or just more efficient? Almost nobody would buy a CPU that is just as fast as their last one, but runs 10C cooler.
I personally would have liked it if they just turned every chip into a x3D version and go in that direction. But 1) I realize not everyone wants gaming performance and 2) They probably feel like they need to match Intel because 'they got bigger numbers go brrrrrr so we need bigger numbers".

Faster, more efficient, cheaper, pick 2 law seems to be in full effect.
 

Lakados

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I personally would have liked it if they just turned every chip into a x3D version and go in that direction. But 1) I realize not everyone wants gaming performance and 2) They probably feel like they need to match Intel because 'they got bigger numbers go brrrrrr so we need bigger numbers".

Faster, more efficient, cheaper, pick 2 law seems to be in full effect.
TSMC is admittedly struggling with its stacking process and is still working with BESI on a solution, the yield rate is not something that can really handle a product-wide mainstream launch.
 

Axman

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So I just finished watching a delidding video and the dude said the heatspreader could be 1 to 1.2 mm thinner.

Makes me wonder: how thick will the 3D layer be?
 

Lakados

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So I just finished watching a delidding video and the dude said the heatspreader could be 1 to 1.2 mm thinner.

Makes me wonder: how thick will the 3D layer be?
I thought they choose the height they did so that it would remain compatible with the existing coolers on the market so they didn't need to redesign new brackets for everything.
 
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