Rumor Mill: PlayStation 4 and Xbox 720 to no longer support Used-Games

[FrEaKy]

PlayStation 4

Backwards compatibility

When the original PS3 unit shipped, it contained a chip that gave it the ability to play PS2 games. Subsequent iterations of hardware omitted this chip and so the backwards compatibility was condemned to death.
Current rumours suggests that the PS4 will completely ignore the possibility of backwards compatibility and focus firmly on the next generation. So if you want to continue playing your PS3 games, keep hold of your PS3s, kids.
Second-hand games on the way out?

More rumours suggest that Sony is going in the same direction as Microsoft in that it wants to kill off the second hand games market. Current industry wisdom suggests that future PS4 games might be tied to your Sony Entertainment Network account and will thus then have no resale value. That's a similar approach as used by PC developers using Steam so we reckon this is a likely development. Doesn't mean we're happy about it, though. But again, perhaps will find out more on this side of things on February 20.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/ps4-release-date-news-and-rumours-937822

Xbox 720

The forthcoming “Xbox 720”, as the follow up to the Xbox 360 is known, will compel owners to sign in online every time they play and register games to their account, according to developers.
The claims were reported by Edge, a leading video games magazine. Although Microsoft's new console will always be connected to the internet, games could still be sold on physical media, it said, as it will include a Blu-Ray drive. The main source is likely to be an online store, however, allowing more flexible pricing.
“It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user,” Edge reported.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...fts-Xbox-720-to-block-second-hand-gaming.html


Now again, these are just rumors, and we will know for sure in a week regarding the PlayStation 4 when Sony makes its official reveal on Feb. 20th in New York. As for Microsoft, they really have been trying to keep a lot of things secret regarding this, but in regards to second hand games, companies like GameStop who make the largest majority of their profit from second hand games, will this mean the end?

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

Been discussed many times already in the Edge "new xbox" topic.

Sony is also expect to reveal this tiny bit of info on Feb 20, when they reveal the specifics publicly of the PS4

 

[SeymourGore]

Not looking good for the Used Games market but I do like the idea of having my games tied to my account (Steam-style). Hopefully issues such as offline play, logging in and being able to use the game temporarily on another console (friend play), and license transfers (moving content to a new console) are looked into and implemented.

 

[JoeUser]

Not looking good for the Used Games market but I do like the idea of having my games tied to my account (Steam-style). Hopefully issues such as offline play, logging in and being able to use the game temporarily on another console (friend play), and license transfers (moving content to a new console) are looked into and implemented.

Why??? What good comes from having games tied to your account than what we already have? All you are adding is more BS that doesn't need to be there. I mean, what is the benefit of having a game tied to your account? You can ALREADY play online with a game, play offline, have all local saves, chat in game, etc...I don't see any benefit from what you propose other than unnecessary things.

You work for Sony or Microsoft? Trying to act like one of those "normal" people to convince others that this is a good idea?

 

[Q-BZ]

Doesn't make sense.


For example:

If I flip a copy of Madden on the used market after I've played it, EA and then either Sony or MS get more money on the next person who HAS to sign up their own account to access ANY online features.

Easy revenue stream. Why would they cut it off?

 

[Kinsaras]

I have trouble seeing "no used games". Could be wrong but I don't see MS or Sony going that drastic yet.

What I can picture is having some activation code, pretty much like online passes now but for single player as well. Meaning if you do buy used, you may need to pay a little extra to get a pass.

Not that either is a good thing

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

Doesn't make sense.


For example:

If I flip a copy of Madden on the used market after I've played it, EA and then either Sony or MS get more money on the next person who HAS to sign up their own account to access ANY online features.

Easy revenue stream. Why would they cut it off?

A lot less people than you think are online, or play online multiplayer.

 

[SeymourGore]

Why??? What good comes from having games tied to your account than what we already have? All you are adding is more BS that doesn't need to be there. I mean, what is the benefit of having a game tied to your account? You can ALREADY play online with a game, play offline, have all local saves, chat in game, etc...I don't see any benefit from what you propose other than unnecessary things.

You work for Sony or Microsoft? Trying to act like one of those "normal" people to convince others that this is a good idea?

I may or may not be receiving compensation for my views!

My thing is I'm all for digital distribution, if the game's tied to my account hopefully I'd have the option to redownload it in the future to free up space on my HDD, never having to worry about a broken or lost disc. There's still a lot of 'What Ifs' (worthwhile digital sales, offlineplay, friendplay, license transfers) to really sell it to me, but I'm okay with the basic idea of it.

Does this mean that I want to see used video games disappear? No, not at all. I'd be concerned that AAA publishers will take even less risks with their games, stifling innovation further, because there's no used video game market where normal consumers might be more inclined to purchase a game that's not as 'recognizable'.

 

[zero2dash]

I hope these stay rumors, but if this is indeed the case - I flat out refuse to buy a console that doesn't allow non-new games. This not only kills used games, but the idea of taking games to a friend's house to play on their console as well. If they do this, it's a deal breaker, and I'll take any set aside "new console funds" and use them on another graphics card instead.

 

[bazylik]

They will shoot themselves in the foot with this.. For me it means I will think three times before I buy a game, research it and make sure 100% that I want that game.. No more buying games on impulse, meaning that I can resell it if I don't like it.

And I'll be laughing if I start reading articles about companies scratching their heads why their games sell less copies

 

[Katalysis]

If I was Sony or MS, I would hold off and wait until I saw what the other one is announcing this round. If Sony comes out and says PS4 locks out used games, MS should come out and not do it, or vice versa.

That's likely a huge coup of good will against the other company, and the large install base from people who refuse to buy locked consoles. Moreover, if this move is just being done to appease the developers, those developers will have no choice but to release games for the dominant console regardless of whether it locks used games out or not, so it seems like upside to me.

 

[Godmachine]

Still don't believe either will do this. Its more likely they will force online DRM than this. The used game market not only benefits retailers and encourages sales in general , gamers have been used to selling off their used games for decades.

ANYTHING that hurts your audience in a way that involves taking away something they've become so used to over time is going to be met with a horrible reception. If they simply must have greater control over the used gaming market then they could just force you to spend $10-15 to pay to play if the game is a big MP style game. I would accept this model ..

But if they both strip away used games then that will be it for me. I will for the first time , pass on consoles and stick strictly with PC. Selling my used games on Ebay is a boon for me and allows me to afford this hobby and keep up with the latest consoles games. If Sony or MS don't like that they can blow me.

 

[stockwiz]

I don't mind this if it causes the games to drop dramatically in price as time goes by due to being able to download them.

For example, on steam you can find a lot of older titles like Bioshock for as little as $2.50 on sale. In this price range... $2.50 to $15 or so, it's a no brainer decision on a lot of these games and the developer can still make money, which they would not do on used games circulating around. As a person who originally pirated games back in my youth, I can now purchase them and have purchased them ALL on steam because of the low prices.

However, if they try to keep the price of the games above $25-30 years later, then that will be somewhat .. irritating.. like record labels still trying to milk sales of 30-50 year old music and suing people who get in their way.

I use steam and enjoy the steam style setup, particularly because i wait until games have been out a year or two then buy them at half price. The one exception to this rule is Skyrim, I bought that release day. I guess there are not that many new games I feel a pressing need to play right away.. Skyrim was one, and worth the money. Perhaps when they stop making the PC ports as an afterthought.

Let's face it.. who owns a console but does not have high speed internet with a home router? I'd imagine the numbers are so small as to not worry the producers of these consoles. How often does the steam service or one's internet actually go down? As long as they implement this properly (not cutting people off in the middle of the game if their internet goes out) this won't be a big deal.

 

[MrCrispy]

I don't mind this if it causes the games to drop dramatically in price as time goes by due to being able to download them.

For example, on steam you can find a lot of older titles like Bioshock for as little as $2.50 on sale. In this price range... $2.50 to $15 or so, it's a no brainer decision on a lot of these games and the developer can still make money, which they would not do on used games circulating around. As a person who originally pirated games back in my youth, I can now purchase them and have purchased them ALL on steam because of the low prices.

However, if they try to keep the price of the games above $25-30 years later, then that will be somewhat .. irritating.. like record labels still trying to milk sales of 30-50 year old music and suing people who get in their way.

I use steam and enjoy the steam style setup, particularly because i wait until games have been out a year or two then buy them at half price. The one exception to this rule is Skyrim, I bought that release day. I guess there are not that many new games I feel a pressing need to play right away.. Skyrim was one, and worth the money. Perhaps when they stop making the PC ports as an afterthought.

Let's face it.. who owns a console but does not have high speed internet with a home router? I'd imagine the numbers are so small as to not worry the producers of these consoles. How often does the steam service or one's internet actually go down? As long as they implement this properly (not cutting people off in the middle of the game if their internet goes out) this won't be a big deal.

Lots of people still buy consoles for single player. And broadband is not so common as you think.

And this is a huge deal. Requiring always on Internet+DRM for SP games is the start of very very bad things. Next to follow is a subscription model for SP, locking out content, micro payments, DLC, hacks, all sorts of bad stuff.

 

[SeymourGore]

You know, instead of 'banning used game sales', they could probably make new game sales more appealing by offering a 'Club Nintendo'-style rewards program. I had no idea that Nintendo even offered such a program, and I've been busy registering all of my products and found out I have enough 'Coins' for free swag. Basically you input a PIN that's included in your retail package, that's a one time use deal (separate from your system's serial number) and get 'Coins'.

It'd be nice if I could use the coins for more than just what Nintendo currently offers under the program (though Paper Mario's pretty sweet), but there are some cool stuff to be found there.

Anyhow, by using a system like this (and advertising it well) they'd be giving consumers more incentive buying new versus used.

 

[zero2dash]

For example, on steam you can find a lot of older titles like Bioshock for as little as $2.50 on sale. In this price range... $2.50 to $15 or so, it's a no brainer decision on a lot of these games and the developer can still make money, which they would not do on used games circulating around.

1) Steam sales are 10000x greater than even the best bottom bargain basement sales that end up on consoles. The cheapest new console games on massive discount are still typically $10+ in the "bins" at Walmart. $10 at Walmart buys you a Madden title from two years ago; $10 on Steam (typically) buys you 2+ great games depending on the sale. You can't really try to compare the two because there is no comparison.

2) Developers make money from sales but the revenue pales in comparison to what they want/need. Case in point - THQ bundle. 885,251 bundles earned $5 million but that didn't go straight to THQ, and it sure the hell didn't save them from bankruptcy. The average paid there was $5.76. Comparatively, if they sold the same amount of bundles for $15 (your high figure), they would have made $13,278,765 (nearly 3x as much). If those games were $50 a piece on release (9 games in the bundle) x bundle count - the revenue is $398,362,950. Think about that for a minute and tell me again that $15 sale prices make these companies revenue, after you factor in the R&D, programming, beta testing, and employee wages on top of publishing and packaging costs along with advertising.

Companies make money on sales, sure; it's better than the games being 100% pirated in which they make nothing. But the fact is, even on the sale deals, they're making nothing compared to what they paid to actually make the game. It's a case of "better than nothing", and that's about it.

 

[stockwiz]

Lots of people still buy consoles for single player. And broadband is not so common as you think.

And this is a huge deal. Requiring always on Internet+DRM for SP games is the start of very very bad things. Next to follow is a subscription model for SP, locking out content, micro payments, DLC, hacks, all sorts of bad stuff.

I doubt it. If they tried more people will simply pirate their way around it or vote with their wallets. I'm not paying for any game with installation limits, games which are pay to access items such as weapons or armor unless the game itself is cheap to free, and they already do DLC.. solution to that is to buy the game a year or two later with all the DLC packs included. Don't get me wrong, I favor not requiring internet access for single player, but they are gonna do what they are gonna do.. they've mostly ignored gamers suggestions and have continued to put intrusive DRM into their PC titles even though it does nothing to stop them from being pirated. I expect much of the same here.

The first thing I did when I bought Bioshock 2 on steam was to crack it so I did not have to sign up and use games for windows live to save the game. That type of garbage, along with the garbage they put into Grand Theft Auto 4, I will not use, and will not buy the game. A steam type system, I have no problem with, something that's compatible with all titles and does not require an 'account' for any particular game. That's me though, some are going to fight tooth and nail for their right to own the game and play without any internet access. More power to them.

What would worry me is them releasing games in a more 'beta' state which they are already doing to a degree, but they could not get away with in the past because you simply could not 'patch' an old N64 game due to it being released with bugs.

More half finished games like Far Cry 2 rushed out the door due to development time constraints by the publishers and the like....

In any case whatever they do, I just hope they make them as powerful as economically possible, and not 'cool, small, and efficient' .. I want them to be $600 monsters the first 6 months that they still might lose money on the first year.. nintendo can be small, cool and efficient. We'll have to live with whatever quality they can put out for another 8 years, so may as well get it right... within the law of diminishing returns. I'm sure they'll get it right. I said it in another thread, you don't need big sales numbers the first year. Make it expensive, let component costs come down, while we get some developers pumping out some games.. after 12 months drop the price to $500, then $400 after 24 months... with such a long life cycle, the first year need only be a transition year.

 

[teletran8]

It's 2013 last I checked and if your not online that's a personal problem? YOUR OBVIOUSLY NOT A GAMER!

 

[Nostram]

Fact mill: If rumor mill holds true less people will adopt new system due to number of families that buy used games due to financial reasons.

I know more than one family that get consoles for the family that really can not afford it and when they do get additional games it is primarily a used game purchase. Hard working + hard times for some, things like this and the "online pass" really do hurt some people and their gaming experience. I understand the reasoning behind it, but to completely block second hand gaming is such a dick move that it would hurt the companies more than help them.

I am type type of idiot that tends to preorder collector editions and "uber editions" of games and have a bookshelf collapsing under the weight of hardcover guides that usually get enough use to go from the store to said shelf and to do something such as that would have me cease console gaming on principal. Granted the xbox in this house gets more use as a netflix & dvd player by the wife and me and more gaming use from the kids these days. MechWarrior online stole my console time *grins*