Yes a GPU does have a lot to do with the speed of games. But it still runs into the same limits of transistors size & cost. Of course a GPU can make better use of parallelism, so while throwing more cores at a CPU gives you less than doing similar to a GPU, there is still only so much you can gain. RTX had a large die... 7nm should allow more transistors in the same space. This isn't perfectly linear of course, so 30% transistor density doesn't automatically mean 30% more performance. It needs more bandwidth to feed it and who knows how much more was set aside to improve raytracing, etc. Unless they increased the die by 40%, you aren't going to see a 70% increase. And if they increase the die 40% on a smaller node, you can expect $$$ increase. I think 30% is decent given these constraints. Unless you want $2500 video cards, I wouldn't be surprised selecting to many 70% increases, it's just not realistic at this point. I mean, I would be happy to be wrong, but unless they come up with a better mouse trap, brute forcing by adding more CUs will only get you so far. Increasing memory bandwidth is also required if you have that much more compute/raster performance... So again, $$$.
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Rumor: 3080 31% faster than 2080 Ti
- Thread starter imsirovic5
- Start date
Yep its pricing that killed this generation The performance bump was the usual 30-40% which is acceptable. The 2080 super is closer to 60% faster than the 1080 in the latest games.
Why do all of you keep referring to 30 to 40% being the usual? Again the two previous generations before Turing both gave over 70% increases.
DooKey
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That is a low price compared to the 2080 Ti it would be replacing. Not too shabby.
The non founders 2080ti was also $999. Of course it was almost impossible to ever get one at that price but that same issue could happen with a 3080 also. So essentially that wouldn't change the market at all then but hell we already see one user here that would have been happy with only 5 or 10% improvement.
I did. I have a Titan XP that I paid $1200 for, upgraded from the 980 Ti and it was a huge increase in performance. I skipped the 2080 Ti because I'm not paying $1200 for 30% generational upgrades.For those that think 30% is not enough of an performance increase, the easy answer is skip this gen.
If the 3070 has a 30% increase compared to my 2070, I'll take it. Gladly. But more than likely I'll just take the 3080
30% is fine.
Obviously the 3080 and 3090 will likely be >60% or more faster than what I have now, finally, I'm just bitching about the slowdown in the pace of advancement.
DooKey
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Hmmmm, let me see for those that can't.
Maxwell 28nm
Pascal 16nm TSMC, 14nm Samsung
Turing 16nm TSMC (tweaked process called 12nm)
Ampere (gaming per rumors) 10nm Samsung (tweaked process called 8nm)
I can see the huge increase Maxwell to Pascal. I can see the small increase Pascal to Turing. I can see the not large increase Turing to Ampere if rumors are true.
Maxwell 28nm
Pascal 16nm TSMC, 14nm Samsung
Turing 16nm TSMC (tweaked process called 12nm)
Ampere (gaming per rumors) 10nm Samsung (tweaked process called 8nm)
I can see the huge increase Maxwell to Pascal. I can see the small increase Pascal to Turing. I can see the not large increase Turing to Ampere if rumors are true.
Mode13
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Checking my post for the word "happy" next to 5-10%. Also this thread topic is an x80 vs an x80ti, so you're miles off away from relevance here Ricky.
How much better is the 980 relative to the 780ti? Is it 75%?
1080 vs 980ti?
You keep quoting the two most amazing gpu generational leaps in modern history (Maxwell and Pascal) and assuming that will be the continuing norm.
We're sorry you're so terribly disappointed but we all knew it was coming. I'll assume this guy is just trolling moving forward.. waste of time
How much better is the 980 relative to the 780ti? Is it 75%?
1080 vs 980ti?
You keep quoting the two most amazing gpu generational leaps in modern history (Maxwell and Pascal) and assuming that will be the continuing norm.
We're sorry you're so terribly disappointed but we all knew it was coming. I'll assume this guy is just trolling moving forward.. waste of time
And I assume you are trolling or either you did not read what I actually said. The title may be the 80 series but nobody knows if it's the ti model or not. I was as clear as I could be when I'm referring to flagship to flagship so if this is not the ti model then it is not as big of an issue.
Mode13
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Show me how many people in this thread happily celebrate 30% flagship to flagship as if it's a glorious new thing.
Everybody is just accepting it because it's what we all expected to begin with.
its not a huge deal, its a video card. If you don't like it, wait another generation. You were told that 50 times.
You keep telling us we're happy about it
when noone is celebrating and insulting just about every sane post made.
Think about it.
So playing the obtuse game I see. There have been people in this thread that have acted like 30% is perfectly acceptable and there have been people that indicated they would be happy with that. Maybe go back and look at the posts yourself before making ridiculous comments acting like I'm a troll.
Mode13
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Lmao..
People are saying 30% from a 2080ti to a 3080 (not flagship) is perfectly acceptable and/or exciting. You turned that into something it's not. I'm playing no game, you insult everybody in this thread and ignore educated replies and yet you then expect the whole discussion to somehow shift to some arbitrary point you're failing to convey.
Maybe a 3090 will be 30% better than a 3080 and we can all be happy.
We are probably months from release and this performance "leak" of an un-named card could be kind of meaningless by then.
If the die rumors are to be believed, this time x80 will be based on the biggest gaming die, while for the last three generations x80 was based on the next smaller die.
Implications are that x80 could be a relatively better performer this time around, but could also incur a relative increase in price. Which kind of fits with what NVidia did with Turing. Which makes the 3080 name being attached to the performance kind of moot.
If it costs $999 for this level of performance, does it matter all if it's called a 3080, 3080 Ti, or a Rose?
If the die rumors are to be believed, this time x80 will be based on the biggest gaming die, while for the last three generations x80 was based on the next smaller die.
Implications are that x80 could be a relatively better performer this time around, but could also incur a relative increase in price. Which kind of fits with what NVidia did with Turing. Which makes the 3080 name being attached to the performance kind of moot.
If it costs $999 for this level of performance, does it matter all if it's called a 3080, 3080 Ti, or a Rose?
Mode13
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Well that brings us right back to praying AMD or Intel can do anything at all to drive prices down.. no disagreement on the hefty price tags
... Round and round she goes
kirbyrj
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That wasn't the card that was released though. That was the mid-cycle refresh. At launch, the 2080 was marginally better than the 1080Ti and cost more. I had one pre-ordered and canceled it after reading reviews.
Lol, Intel... That's funny. AMD is a long shot to even come close... Intel isn't even a bench warmer yet. Here's to $1500 cards this generationWell that brings us right back to praying AMD or Intel can do anything at all to drive prices down.. no disagreement on the hefty price tags
.
5150Joker
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I would suggest people temper their anger and outrage and wait until we have official numbers and benchmarks. This is just some random 3dmark benchmark with an unknown card and a ton of speculation to go with it.
kirbyrj
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Thanks for your opinion on how to spend my money without knowing what I do with my computer. I don't know where I'd be without it!
/S
Criticalhitkoala
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I'm pretty excited. I've been using the 2070 I bought from Kyle, and can't wait to retire it into the streaming machine so it can be used 100% for Nvidia's RTX Voice and other streamer friendly stuff. I'm in for a 3080 or 3090. It's time for a big card again.
Well that brings us right back to praying AMD or Intel can do anything at all to drive prices down.. no disagreement on the hefty price tags
Exactly. Without a strong competing product I can't see NVidia delivering more than 30% improvement on perf/$.
Even 30% improvement on perf/$ would be pretty damn good. We got nowhere near that with Turing.
Nebell
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AMD might not be the competition we want, but the new consoles are so high powered they are putting Nvidia GPUs to shame.
A lot of people dismiss this question.
But seriously. Why should I spend tons of money for gaming when the new consoles will beat the shit out of PC performance at 4k, which not even 2080Ti is able to run properly?
At a fraction of price.
I wouldn't do this last gen because PS4 and Xbox were outdated, but this year is different.
I might even sell my PC and get a "good enough" laptop for photo editing and just get the two new consoles.
It would be cheaper and I'd have the best of all worlds.
While Greedia can go fuck themselves.
A lot of people dismiss this question.
But seriously. Why should I spend tons of money for gaming when the new consoles will beat the shit out of PC performance at 4k, which not even 2080Ti is able to run properly?
At a fraction of price.
I wouldn't do this last gen because PS4 and Xbox were outdated, but this year is different.
I might even sell my PC and get a "good enough" laptop for photo editing and just get the two new consoles.
It would be cheaper and I'd have the best of all worlds.
While Greedia can go fuck themselves.
I paid $550 for my 1080Ti. I'm waiting for an actual upgrade from the 1080Ti in that price range. I have not been at all impressed by the 20XX line. Fingers crossed for big Navi. Without competitive pressure, nVidia is not going to improve their price/performance offering.
Auer
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I have edited a lot of images on laptops over the years because of various reasons and it's never my first choice.
It gets old, trust me. Unless youre traveling for work or similar, avoid it.
GameLifter
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At this point we don't know for sure how good the new consoles will be at running 4K games. Assassins Creed Valhalla may not run at 60fps and a lot of the games showed at the PS5 reveal weren't running at 60fps and we don't know if they will or not at launch. The new Little Big Planet game was running at 60fps but it's not running at native 4K. Also, the Demon's Souls remake is going to have a performance mode that disables graphical features to hit 60fps.
My point is that the consoles may not be the 4K/60fps powerhouses that people are making them out to be. It's best to wait and see, just like with the new video cards coming from Nvidia and AMD.
Geforcepat
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I'd be very happy if there was a 30% increase in x80 category as 1080ti ($699) equivalent 2080 ($699) didnt have any increase in performance whatsoever. Here I am 4 years after my initial purchase and pretty much the only better "consumer" gpu is 2080 ti which is 50% more expensive for 30% more performance.
The cards will take time to trickle down from the top of the stack.
I expect by March next year, if the 2080 super is still available, then it could sell for $500 (as there should be an equivalent card from AMD)
T4rd
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Would be awesome if the 3080 is 30% faster than the 2080Ti, but not at the cost of another proportional price hike for that series of cards. I'm not willing to spend more than $700 on a card typically. I got my 2080 on sale for $650 last year and have been happy with it so far and planned on upgrading to the 3080 the first time it goes on sale as well, unless it's actually somehow priced reasonably when it launches.
You have to put your foot down and vote with your wallet at some point. I wonder where that line is for many enthusiasts here; what if the next "ti" card is $2000, or $3000? How stupid will you let it get before you don't buy it? One thing is for sure, AMD needs to start bringing the heat in the GPU arena as they have on CPUs or Nvidia is just going to keep running away with their prices.
You have to put your foot down and vote with your wallet at some point. I wonder where that line is for many enthusiasts here; what if the next "ti" card is $2000, or $3000? How stupid will you let it get before you don't buy it? One thing is for sure, AMD needs to start bringing the heat in the GPU arena as they have on CPUs or Nvidia is just going to keep running away with their prices.
Future Fun
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A halving of feature size gives 4 times the transistors so there are something to pay for higher costs. We have seen a separation of price vs cost everywhere, through, it is easy to, increase cost, invest or hide money. Being happy about that is silly, but then, there are a reason to have more money. The reason there isn't any more complaining , are just, it isn't much fun. So don't take the internet as a good measurement of what people think. I "read" free audio books from Librivox, helps keeping my media spend down.
RPGWiZaRD
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I'm guessing it's the normal RTX 3080 and Ti version to be 50~55% or so faster. I think that would neither be amazing or bad, based on the little info we have so far, pretty expected.
More interesting is how the pricing will be this time around... will it continue to skyrocket or will there be some better competition this time around...
More interesting is how the pricing will be this time around... will it continue to skyrocket or will there be some better competition this time around...
I figured the only question was performance and skyrocketing prices was pretty much a given. They can pack more transistors on board, but they aren't getting cheaper like they used too. So increases are going to cost. At least that's my limited viewpoint. This is why we didn't get a 5800xt/5900xt, the price/perf just wouldn't have been there.
The 980ti wasn't 70% faster than the 780Ti.
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They going to be even more expensive. $1000 for 3080. $1500 for 3080ti. $2k+ for the 3090. I don't see AMD releasing something more powerful then a 2080ti.
Delicieuxz
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There are some reasons why we might expect the 3000-series to be priced much better than the 2000-series was:
- RTX didn't turn-out to be as big a deal and a card-seller as Nvidia had hoped. It doesn't help that its performance is terrible to the point that many people simply don't want to use it.
- Nvidia's BS about their large surge in GPU sales not being from crypto-miners blew-up in their faces, with Nvidia being left sitting on a mountain of unsold 2000-series stock.
- The new consoles are going to release this autumn and every sale of a console is profit for Nvidia's main competitor, AMD. Nvidia will surely aim to stymie console purchases by both releasing their 3000-series ahead of them, and offering a more attractive price on them. Otherwise, the new consoles are going to eat into Nvidia's potential profits.
- Due to covid-19, many people are low on funds and can't afford the obscene and abusive prices the 2000-series was listed at. If Nvidia increase prices further at this time, or even if they don't decrease them a bit, it's likely to be seen as callous and offensive by potential customers.
It's also possible that Nvidia upcharged the 2000-series as a last-chance at a cash-grab, knowing that they'd have to drop prices down again with the 3000-series due to the arrival of new consoles.
So, I think there's a chance that we'll see lower prices for the 3000 series. And we should see them because the 2000-series prices are unjustifiable and pure greed.
But, offsetting all these sound logical reasons to lower prices for the 3000 series is the fact that the company in question is Nvidia, which has shown itself to be divorced from rationality and unaware of its surroundings.
- RTX didn't turn-out to be as big a deal and a card-seller as Nvidia had hoped. It doesn't help that its performance is terrible to the point that many people simply don't want to use it.
- Nvidia's BS about their large surge in GPU sales not being from crypto-miners blew-up in their faces, with Nvidia being left sitting on a mountain of unsold 2000-series stock.
- The new consoles are going to release this autumn and every sale of a console is profit for Nvidia's main competitor, AMD. Nvidia will surely aim to stymie console purchases by both releasing their 3000-series ahead of them, and offering a more attractive price on them. Otherwise, the new consoles are going to eat into Nvidia's potential profits.
- Due to covid-19, many people are low on funds and can't afford the obscene and abusive prices the 2000-series was listed at. If Nvidia increase prices further at this time, or even if they don't decrease them a bit, it's likely to be seen as callous and offensive by potential customers.
It's also possible that Nvidia upcharged the 2000-series as a last-chance at a cash-grab, knowing that they'd have to drop prices down again with the 3000-series due to the arrival of new consoles.
So, I think there's a chance that we'll see lower prices for the 3000 series. And we should see them because the 2000-series prices are unjustifiable and pure greed.
But, offsetting all these sound logical reasons to lower prices for the 3000 series is the fact that the company in question is Nvidia, which has shown itself to be divorced from rationality and unaware of its surroundings.
I expect ego to trump greed.
Nvidia, at any cost, will not let AMD take the higher ground. either via consoles or "big navi".
Gideon
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At those prices the consoles will be the only thing selling, that is way beyond what anyone is willing to spend except for a few. Heck even I wont spend more then 600 on a card and I feel no need to upgrade either with my 1080 at 1440p as it works just fine.
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Zarathustra[H]
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...and those two were extreme outliers.
~30% has been the typical generation over generation improvement for decades. In some cases it was much smaller.
So same as last release, where people keep buying NVidia cards, while others complain...