Rude PM's from a user over my shipping policy.

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Zoson

Zoson

Supreme [H]ardness
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In my thread, I state that I provide USPS with DC, which comes with $50 in insurance free. I also state that if you want more insurance, you have to pay for that.

That is to say, for any item worth less than $50, you don't pay for any shipping at all, and for anything over $50, I'll still pay for that part of the shipping and you just pay for the additional insurance cost. Honestly in my experience, the additional cost of insurance is pretty nominal, and most people simply ask me how much it would be for the additional insurance up to a specific value.

Today a user sent me a message stating that I was totally wrong and should pay for all of the cost. He pretty much called me dense/stupid in his PM, and then started attacking me for accepting amazon as a form of payment as if it were the only form of payment I was willing to receive(it's not).

I've been doing things this way for the last 14 years and have never received a complaint. I guess it's been obvious to people that they are, in fact, receiving a discount on shipping.

Yes, the onus is on me to get the item safely to the buyer. I always have, and people constantly comment on my heat how well my items are packed.

I'm going to come out right now and say: it's NEVER been precedent that the seller pays all shipping cost and insurance cost. Shipping and insurance cost is mutually exclusive from proper shipping and packing/getting the item safely to a buyer.

I feel like the alternative to this is just drop my free shipping entirely and simply say that the buyer pays all shipping cost?

Mind you, this person has never bought anything from me, he just randomly sent me a PM. Not inquiring about an item. Just to harass me.
 
Dude, never mind that guy. If he doesnt like it. Give him price without shipping and tell him he choose the any shipping company he wants, and insure it as much as he wants. It is your belongings and you ask whatever you want for them
 
It's your stuff. You sell it however you want. They either accept the terms or don't. Send him a pm telling him to fck off and add his username to your ignore list. Haters gonna hate. I have no patience for those kind of people and quite frankly its not worth the bother.
 
I'd tell him where he can shove it ;) sounds like quite the jackass.

Bad attitude like that is one of my "i really shouldn't be doing deals with this person" red flags...
 
You should out him/her so no one sells to them ever again ;)

They sound like a jerk, what do they care anyways if they aren't even buying something.
 
Insurance/tracking/signature protects the seller and I think Amazon payment between users is dead.
 
kyang357 said:
Insurance/tracking/signature protects the seller
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This isn't the point, and nobody's disputing this fact. All I'm saying is I pay for part of the shipping, and the buyer will pay the rest. Also, as was already mentioned, I give a buyer the option to pick another shipping method and then pay for all the shipping.

kyang357 said:
and I think Amazon payment between users is dead.
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There's no reason not to accept amazon payments as a seller. If someone wants to use amazon to send me money, I have no reason not to accept it.
 
Zoson said:
This isn't the point, and nobody's disputing this fact. All I'm saying is I pay for part of the shipping, and the buyer will pay the rest. Also, as was already mentioned, I give a buyer the option to pick another shipping method and then pay for all the shipping.
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I get what you're saying. Buyer pays the rest of the insurance if they want it. You're going to have to find a buyer who is willing to do that. Most buyer will pay just the shipping. If your item has a value of $200, and you insure it for $50, it's on you if something should happen to it during transit. It's going to be quite difficult to say "well, you could have insured it but decided not to so tough luck." I don't know if that would fly. The buyer would open a dispute and you would lose.

For the above scenario, let's say that the buyer doesn't insure and your items do not arrive. Do you cut him the $50 and call it a day or you send him the $200 he paid? If $200, then I suggest you insure it for $400. That way, you get yours and he get his.


Zoson said:
There's no reason not to accept amazon payments as a seller. If someone wants to use amazon to send me money, I have no reason not to accept it.
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How are you still accepting money via Amazon Payments/Webpay?

As of October 13, 2014 Amazon WebPay is no longer be available to send, receive, or request money from other Amazon Payments users. link
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Zoson said:
This isn't the point, and nobody's disputing this fact. All I'm saying is I pay for part of the shipping, and the buyer will pay the rest. Also, as was already mentioned, I give a buyer the option to pick another shipping method and then pay for all the shipping.


There's no reason not to accept amazon payments as a seller. If someone wants to use amazon to send me money, I have no reason not to accept it.
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What he's trying to say is that Amazon doesn't offer that service anymore.
 
Ignore them, as long as you live up to your end of the deal, I don't see an issue. The problem arises when people claim damage and want a refund. You would have to eat the loss and deal with possible shady buyers. For me, the nominal extra cost is well worth it. For me, I just pay the extra so I don't have to deal with horseshit buyers. I simply let USPS deal with them and the insurance claims because if they are trying to pull a fast one, they typically have to turn the item in to USPS and show proof. Most aren't willing to go that far unless they know you didn't insure it and you have to deal with them.
 
Ah, I missed the fact that Amazon stopped the user to user payments.

However, just to be perfectly clear... The guy in the PM's wasn't saying that. He specifically said that it provides the buyer no protection and (in more words than this) I must be a scammer because I take those payments.

All I wanted to do was drive the point home that shipping COST is totally unrelated to the onus of the seller getting the item safely to the buyer. Which basically all of you have echoed.

The user in question has been here for awhile and responds to TTT threads regularly, so I know he's seen this discussion. Which is also why I don't want to out him immediately - give him a chance to learn from his mistake.
 
Zoson said:
Ah, I missed the fact that Amazon stopped the user to user payments.

However, just to be perfectly clear... The guy in the PM's wasn't saying that. He specifically said that it provides the buyer no protection and (in more words than this) I must be a scammer because I take those payments.

All I wanted to do was drive the point home that shipping COST is totally unrelated to the onus of the seller getting the item safely to the buyer. Which basically all of you have echoed.

The user in question has been here for awhile and responds to TTT threads regularly, so I know he's seen this discussion. Which is also why I don't want to out him immediately - give him a chance to learn from his mistake.
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He hasn't even bought the item yet and he's already calling you dense/stupid. He's not the sort of person to do business with. Ever. Simply tell him, "Thanks, but I'll wait for another buyer." and sell your item to someone else. Problem solved with little to no drama.

If he decides to get offended, post his PMs here for the world to see so they, too, know he's acting like an asshat.
 
He didn't even inquire about buying an item! He literally sent me a PM out of nowhere and started this crap.
 
kyang357 said:
For the above scenario, let's say that the buyer doesn't insure and your items do not arrive. Do you cut him the $50 and call it a day or you send him the $200 he paid? If $200, then I suggest you insure it for $400. That way, you get yours and he get his.
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I just read this. This is fraud. If the item is worth $200, you cannot insure it for $400.

The seller already would have received the $200, and the insurance is only to cover the buyer.
 
Zoson said:
I just read this. This is fraud. If the item is worth $200, you cannot insure it for $400.

The seller already would have received the $200, and the insurance is only to cover the buyer.
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WTH was I thinking, you're right.. :eek:

Insurance is to cover the seller. The buyer would do a dispute/chargeback and get his $200. You would then have to file the insurance and get your $200. So, yes, insure it for $200.
 
It was me. Please by all means add me to the list of not buying or selling to me. The only point was him selling a item for $200 and only putting $50 on the insurance. It doesn't make it or gets damaged. He is then out the $200 and only gets to recover $50 off the insurance, paypal fees and shipping on top of that. It is not our job to pay for insurance to begin with. It is the seller that has to get the item to us. Do what you must do. I wasn't being mean or disrespectful to the guy. I just asked a question.
 
First off, he did this via PM. He sent you a PM pertaining to your selling practices. It does NOT warrant this thread being created bitching about it. He did not thread crap, he did it the right way.

Next... Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. If you sell me an item and insure it for $50 and its worth $200, you will receive $50 from USPS when the item does not arrive to me. I will receive a full refund from paypal so I really could give a flying fuck whether you insure it for the full value.

If you sell me an item that is in working condition, you are guaranteeing that it will make it to me and in the condition in which it was sold. If neither of those things happen, you are to refund me my money when I return the defective item or refund me when its decided that the package was lost.

Dont ask for additional money for insurance. That is super douchebag and cheap. I buy insurance to protect myself as a seller. I dont buy insurance as a buyer just to protect the seller.
 
KILLER_K has a point, if it is the seller that is insured. Informative thread was informative! I think it was alright for OP to clarify with more input.
 
As was already mentioned, that point was never in dispute, ever. See 2:28pm.
 
Sticks and stones may break my bones
But words will never hurt me.
 
I see what you said at 2:28 but in your OP you state that you provide (due to default by USPS) $50 insurance and if someone wants additional insurance, they must pay for it. So again, if you understand in your post at 2:28 that its the sellers responsibility for an item to arrive and safely and that the insurance protects the seller, why would you ask for someone to pickup the insurance cost? No buyer should do that unless they like to piss money away.

Regardless, I still believe that KK was just trying to state this point that I have stated and did it via PM rather than thread crap. He did it the right way (although from your OP state that he may have gone about it wrong with what he said) by contacting you through PM. This is what should happen when someone has a question about a sellers practice.

Ive PM'ed many sellers asking about their pricing, or shipping, due to something being brand new and cheaper. Some sellers enjoy trying to rip people off and will wait for that 1 sucker to come along every month.
 
This was all I said in my post. Again the $200 dollar post and my pm to him of the $100 dollar was just general prices I made up to pm him about in general. It doesn't reflect anything he has for sale. It is what it is though. Thanks for the support and thanks for all the negative post towards me also. it makes me a stronger person.

---Quote (Originally by KILLER_K)---
I ship via USPS with free DC. This comes with $50 insurance.

Additional insurance is NOT included and will only be added at the buyer's expense.
===============================================
You do realize it is your responsibility to get the item to the buyer right? It is not their place to put insurance on your item you are selling.

Look at it this way. If you sell a $100 dollar item. It gets damaged or doesn't make it. You not only have to give the buyer back a $100 dollars. But also lose $50 on your sale plus shipping.

So you are going in the hole more and more by not covering your items with the correct insurance. Not none of my business but your rules are backwards for a seller. Just what you are doing makes no sense though.

Thanks
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Zoson said:
Yes, the onus is on me to get the item safely to the buyer.
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This is true. But if you understand that, why don't you insist on insuring the package to whatever its value (whoever may actually pay for it)?

Are you saying that you understand that you are responsible for getting the package there intact, but since you don't require (or care) that your packages are insured, that you'll pay for any in-transit damages out of pocket? If that's the case, then why do you give the buyer the option of paying for your insurance?
 
doz said:
First off, he did this via PM. He sent you a PM pertaining to your selling practices. It does NOT warrant this thread being created bitching about it. He did not thread crap, he did it the right way.

Next... Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. If you sell me an item and insure it for $50 and its worth $200, you will receive $50 from USPS when the item does not arrive to me. I will receive a full refund from paypal so I really could give a flying fuck whether you insure it for the full value.

If you sell me an item that is in working condition, you are guaranteeing that it will make it to me and in the condition in which it was sold. If neither of those things happen, you are to refund me my money when I return the defective item or refund me when its decided that the package was lost.

Dont ask for additional money for insurance. That is super douchebag and cheap. I buy insurance to protect myself as a seller. I dont buy insurance as a buyer just to protect the seller.
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If that is true then why even bother the seller. Its not your or my job to police what others do because they might take offense. You can't judge good intentions in an email. A lot of times you come of being a dick when your not trying to be...either way he called out the seller on something that wasn't his concern.
 
So helping others fix their selling practice is now policing the forums? Interesting outlook you have on the forum threads. When you have people with low heatware like you (12). People that have been doing it longer has better ways of doing things. Sharing technics, thoughts and suggestions is a good thing. But you seem to be just one sided.

Me on the other hand like to get information of things. If someone can help me with something. I will be glad to get the help, tips or suggestions. Same reason we have this forum. Is for people to share their thoughts on shipping, items sold and scammers. But I guess that makes every one that replies with tier opinion or suggestion policing the thread. Being nice will never cost you a thing.

pcjunkie said:
If that is true then why even bother the seller. Its not your or my job to police what others do because they might take offense. You can't judge good intentions in an email. A lot of times you come of being a dick when your not trying to be...either way he called out the seller on something that wasn't his concern.
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Yes, the onus is on me to get the item safely to the buyer. I always have, and people constantly comment on my heat how well my items are packed.
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As long as you understand what you said here and are willing to eat the loss when a damaged item is received after your buyer opts to not pay for the extra insurance and then files a paypal claim against you.

I'm not saying what you're asking of your buyers is wrong. You can ask whatever you want. I'm just telling you what will happen that one time. And it doesn't matter what your policy is on shipping, paypal is going to give the buyer his money back in this instance.

The only thing I can do is suggest what a lot of other people do - price your items including ALL shipping costs, including the insurance. If you're unsure of what the total shipping will be to location X, Y or Z, ballpark the expected cost to the farthest location you can think of and go to USPS.com and calculate it. If you're wrong, eat the couple dollars you'll lose. Trust me, it saves the headache you'll deal with down the road. Again, this is only a suggestion. You're going to do what you're going to do, but it's better to be aware of the likelihood of what's going to happen in the worst case scenario than keep your head in the sand.
 
You guys are missing one key bit of information - if something's value is greater than $50 I always ask if the buyer wants more insurance. By asking if they want additional insurance it becomes part of the transaction. Paypal will side with the seller in this case. Every time.

Again, 99% of the time this doesn't even ever happen because the buyer will just ask how much additional insurance is... and it's usually under $5 for the additional insurance. So again they recognize that they're getting a deal because the basic shipping is usually >$15.

Edit: All three of my last transactions the buyers paid $3.30 in insurance.
SSDX 480GB and 12GB Mushkin Redline 999052 - $5.95 in shipping


GTX 770 - $12.65 in shipping


GTX 770 - $12.65 in shipping


He, literally, has no argument. Buyers choose to insure their stuff if they know they're getting a good deal. And that's exactly why people are willing to pay for the insurance. My prices are good.

Now if only I could get the guys who bought the GPUs to leave heatware.

Just realized the guy who asked for $150 paid the same $3.30 as the guy who asked for $200 on the GPUs. That's something learned. I wonder how much insurance you can get on a Medium FRB with $3.30?

And really, lets just put this in perspective again. 14 years without a single sent item getting broken in transport.
 
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As a seller that utilizes shipping insurance in order to protect myself, I never underinsure my sold items. Most payment transfer conduits (PayPal, Credit Card banks, etc) will almost always favor the BUYER when a dispute arises, which means that the buyer gets all of their money back (usually at the expense of the seller), and the seller is left trying to make a shipping insurance claim to get their money back for the actual value of the item. If I underinsure, then I am only screwing myself over in the very rare case (statistically) that a shipping problem occurs.
 
KILLER_K said:
It was me. Please by all means add me to the list of not buying or selling to me. The only point was him selling a item for $200 and only putting $50 on the insurance. It doesn't make it or gets damaged. He is then out the $200 and only gets to recover $50 off the insurance, paypal fees and shipping on top of that. It is not our job to pay for insurance to begin with. It is the seller that has to get the item to us. Do what you must do. I wasn't being mean or disrespectful to the guy. I just asked a question.
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I just shipped a $450 item teh first class :p
Did it get there in one piece? It most certainly did :p
fer $3.35

Oh..and I just received a $450 box..with it looks like 0 insurance. :D
and the lid's all tore up :eek:
 
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You guys are missing one key bit of information - if something's value is greater than $50 I always ask if the buyer wants more insurance. By asking if they want additional insurance it becomes part of the transaction. Paypal will side with the seller in this case. Every time.
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Time and again, no. No, and no.

Especially with forum transactions. Paypal has proven that they won't accept forum correspondence as valid "proof of transaction" on multiple occasions. But again, if you as the seller are willing to take that gamble, it's on you.

Again, it is much simpler to price it into your product rather than nickle and dime your buyer. Then you get to avoid threads like this in the first place.
 
SunnyD said:
Time and again, no. No, and no.

Especially with forum transactions. Paypal has proven that they won't accept forum correspondence as valid "proof of transaction" on multiple occasions. But again, if you as the seller are willing to take that gamble, it's on you.

Again, it is much simpler to price it into your product rather than nickle and dime your buyer. Then you get to avoid threads like this in the first place.
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Please explain how selling 770's for $200 and then the buyer paying $3.30 for insurance is nickel and diming when the exact same GPUs still sell brand new for almost $300.

It's simply not. And again the argument is really nonexistant since I can't even remember the last time someone said no when I asked them if they wanted additional insurance.
 
If you are willing to skip a sale over $3 by trying to force the insurance cost onto the buyer, then you are wrong. Simple. It is YOUR job to get the item to the buyer, period. It is NOT the buyers responsibility to get insurance coverage. Stores don't ask you to cover insurance, they just do it knowing if the item doesn't arrive, they are in the hook to get them another one or cover the loss.
 
If someone doesn't want to pay for insurance, it's a pretty big tell that they're dishonest, so yeah I'll skip that sale. If that makes me wrong, oh well. I'm still perfectly happy with never having a problem in 14 years.
 
Zoson said:
It's simply not. And again the argument is really nonexistant since I can't even remember the last time someone said no when I asked them if they wanted additional insurance.
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Because you're implying that if they do not, they'll be out of luck if anything happens to their shipment. The typical buyer isn't going to know any better, so you're just scamming them out of a couple extra bucks.
 
I would opt out of the additional insurance as well. If the item shows up, great. If it doesn't PayPal pretty much always sides with buyers so I'll get my money back in a few days. Either way, the insurance for an item isn't my problem or responsibility.

And before someone points out my heat, I do very little buying/selling here but I have done plenty on camera and paintball forums.
 
Zoson said:
If someone doesn't want to pay for insurance, it's a pretty big tell that they're dishonest
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Said the pot to the kettle.

Once again, it's your responsibility to make sure the item is received intact. If not it's your responsibility to pay the buyer back, not the buyer's responsibility to pay the buyer back.
 
Sorry Zoson

When I ship items, I insure for the amount of the item, that is MY personal insurance for an item that is not yet in the buyers hand. If something happens to the item, you refund the buyer total cost, but you only get $50 for insurance since its still your item until buyer has it in hand. Your job as seller is to make sure the item makes it to the buyer, not the other way around.

That insurance is for the sellers benefit!
 
DyNamiC. said:
I would opt out of the additional insurance as well. If the item shows up, great. If it doesn't PayPal pretty much always sides with buyers so I'll get my money back in a few days. Either way, the insurance for an item isn't my problem or responsibility.
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This. I'll work with the seller and help in anyway I can but in the end it's the sellers responsibility that I get the item in the described condition I paid for.

Zoson, what's so difficult about including the cost of insurance in your price? If the buyer tries to dicker you down in price just explain to him the costs of shipping and insurance.
 
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Zoson said:
If someone doesn't want to pay for insurance, it's a pretty big tell that they're dishonest,
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thanks for the laugh...but its time to shut this down as its obviously not going anywhere
 
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