Axman
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People are having problems running current-gen video cards on older PSUs, they're going to have to upgrade for these no matter what.
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RTX 4xxx / RX 7xxx speculation
- Thread starter Nebell
- Start date
People are having problems running current-gen video cards on older PSUs, they're going to have to upgrade for these no matter what.
Nah plenty would have bought new for Ampere like myself, I’m pretty sure it can handle a 4090. I’m not going to buy another just to get a pcie 5 connector and I’m sure there will be an adapter in the box.
Axman
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Which means you upgraded from an older PSU...
Yes and? I’m not going to do it again so my comment about old plugs is still relevant.
Baasha
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If they release the "Titan" version that is 48GB VRAM it will be an absolute monster - I'd buy it day one. however, the other big news nobody seems to be talking about is that SLI / NVLink for the desktop side of things is all but dead and the 4000 series will be the final nail in the coffin.
My rig with the 2x 3090 Ti already hits > 1400W in many cases and that's near the edge for the 1600W PSU.
My rig with the 2x 3090 Ti already hits > 1400W in many cases and that's near the edge for the 1600W PSU.
Gideon
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It was already dead, your twin 3090 Ti really is not doing much most of the time in games. Without mgpu support it's mostly useless. If your using it for productivity software then it may be far more useful.
DooKey
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That never happens. I'm so surprised. Not.
TaintedSquirrel
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kopite posted some 3dmark scores.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...-get-preliminary-3dmark-performance-estimates
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...-get-preliminary-3dmark-performance-estimates
GoldenTiger
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They're his own speculation based on specs, not actual scores, just FYI.
pendragon1
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hes just pulling shit out his ass.
"i dont care" yet seems to enough to make guesses...
"i dont care" yet seems to enough to make guesses...
If he actually had the RTX 4090 score, it is a bit more than that, I imagine it is quite speculative to work just from specs, but if you start with actual performance of a very similar/same architecture card than it has something to it.
GoodBoy
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Next gen cards will be faster than previous gen cards.
lol, it's not rocket science.
Going to laugh in a few months when the 4xxx cards are out in 2022. I can see a 1 months delay, 2 months max, MAYBE.
When AMD's cards come out, so will nVidia's.
So if AMD can take a big hit for 1 quarter and get it over with, then nVidia might as well. If either of these companies do this, expect it to come out in shareholders meeting/board meeting AHEAD of time. So actual news, not youtuber speculations.
They could also release this year, but just come out with less than typical quantities, since these new cards are competing with the previous gen cards as well as against each other. This is probably the smart thing to do as they don't know for certain what amount of product the market can absorb that is also competing against larger than normal volume of the previous gen. But in my mind, used 3xxx cards it will all depend on the price, and some people do not shop for used. Some 4xxx cards can easily sell this year regardless of the used card volume.
But more likely, the (new stock) 3xxx cards pricing will just get adjusted down, about $100 over what the used cards are selling for. They've all made good profits on the 3xxx cards, and mining crashes causing a surplus is nothing new. They can do this.
If AIB's still have new 2xxx cards in stock, then the prices haven't come down as much as they needed to. A small number for warranty purposes makes sense. And that quantity should be X% of that cards' total sales. Not sure what that percentage would be, depends on the failure rates, but a good guess is probably between 2% to 4%. SO, if the 3xxx cards sold incredibly well (I believe they did), then some amount of inventory is needed just to cover upcoming warranty claims. Maybe these dumb AIB's still using the 3 fan not as good as a founders 3xxx series heatsink/fan, will do somethingcrazyamazing and extend the warranties on their existing 3xxx product line. An extra 3 years or something. Something that would be of value to consumers and justify the purchase of those 3xxx series cards, in at least enough quantity to get the stock levels down to ~5% of each cards' total sales so far. The rest can be retained for warranty claims for the next 6 years as per normal. Oh and they really need to come up with a better heatsink design like nVidia did on the 3xxx FE's...(exhausts heat out of the back of the case and less inside of the case). Innovate people...
Anyway, my guess is we will see 4xxx this year.
What is this? Watercooled mining rig? No, looks like only the CPU is being watercooled...
lol, it's not rocket science.
Going to laugh in a few months when the 4xxx cards are out in 2022. I can see a 1 months delay, 2 months max, MAYBE.
When AMD's cards come out, so will nVidia's.
So if AMD can take a big hit for 1 quarter and get it over with, then nVidia might as well. If either of these companies do this, expect it to come out in shareholders meeting/board meeting AHEAD of time. So actual news, not youtuber speculations.
They could also release this year, but just come out with less than typical quantities, since these new cards are competing with the previous gen cards as well as against each other. This is probably the smart thing to do as they don't know for certain what amount of product the market can absorb that is also competing against larger than normal volume of the previous gen. But in my mind, used 3xxx cards it will all depend on the price, and some people do not shop for used. Some 4xxx cards can easily sell this year regardless of the used card volume.
But more likely, the (new stock) 3xxx cards pricing will just get adjusted down, about $100 over what the used cards are selling for. They've all made good profits on the 3xxx cards, and mining crashes causing a surplus is nothing new. They can do this.
If AIB's still have new 2xxx cards in stock, then the prices haven't come down as much as they needed to. A small number for warranty purposes makes sense. And that quantity should be X% of that cards' total sales. Not sure what that percentage would be, depends on the failure rates, but a good guess is probably between 2% to 4%. SO, if the 3xxx cards sold incredibly well (I believe they did), then some amount of inventory is needed just to cover upcoming warranty claims. Maybe these dumb AIB's still using the 3 fan not as good as a founders 3xxx series heatsink/fan, will do something
Anyway, my guess is we will see 4xxx this year.
What is this? Watercooled mining rig? No, looks like only the CPU is being watercooled...
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https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/S...tion-a100-system-architecture-white-paper.pdf
2.5 A Better Way To Cool Down
Similar to previous generation DGX Station, the DGX Station A100 is designed to be operated quietly in an office environment within a nominal operating temperature ranging from 5oC - 30oC. However, unlike the previous generation it now features a new and improved refrigerant based cooling system which can not only handle higher GPU/CPU component temperatures, it can do this completely maintenance free. This means no more water level checking and refilling. No chance of system damage should a leak develop in the cooling system and it's completely environmentally safe and non-toxic with no user serviceable parts to worry about.
The refrigerant system consists of a single circulation pump, cold plates which are mounted to the GPUs and system CPU, plumbing to interconnect the various system components, and heat exchanger unit which includes a refrigerant reservoir to evacuate the heat. Three low speed fans provide the airflow to the condenser to whisper quietly (<37dBm) and displace the heat collected into the surrounding ambient air.
The other side of the coin, Nvidia releases early before a further used market stock pile builds up and price drops. Gets the jump, hype, fomo of the new top skews. While AMD/Intel release new CPUs, have a new top end GPU to go along with them, only new GPU available -> coming from Nvidia -> I would give Jensen Huang a 10 for best strategic move. Since top skews only and typical Nvidia ridicules prices will help AIBs maintain higher prices for the remaining Amper cards while also making money with Lovelace. 4090 first, late September with 4080 announcement for like a December release, price pending could be a play. The beast, Titan or whatever called, new upper Tier creation, crazy power/price/performance. Hey one has to make a new reason to spend even more for the same damn thing right?
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TaintedSquirrel
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3dcenter has compiled kopite's data into a handy chart.
https://www.3dcenter.org/news/gerue...m-47-bzw-65-schneller-als-ihre-ampere-vorgaen
4070, +47% over 3070.
4080, +65% over 3080.
4090, +86% over 3090.
Looks like the 4080 is again going to be the big seller this generation. Much more impressive performance uplift over the 4070, presumably 16 vs 10 GB VRAM, more reasonably priced than the 4090 presumably. The complaints about 10/12 GB not being enough are gone. Just need some pricing estimates to really look at it.
Maybe we will see a 4060 Ti with more appeal. But the 4070 looks quite disappointing in this data, both perf and power usage. "3090 performance at $500" would be good for marketing though... Deja vu.
https://www.3dcenter.org/news/gerue...m-47-bzw-65-schneller-als-ihre-ampere-vorgaen
4070, +47% over 3070.
4080, +65% over 3080.
4090, +86% over 3090.
Looks like the 4080 is again going to be the big seller this generation. Much more impressive performance uplift over the 4070, presumably 16 vs 10 GB VRAM, more reasonably priced than the 4090 presumably. The complaints about 10/12 GB not being enough are gone. Just need some pricing estimates to really look at it.
Maybe we will see a 4060 Ti with more appeal. But the 4070 looks quite disappointing in this data, both perf and power usage. "3090 performance at $500" would be good for marketing though... Deja vu.
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If those numbers are correct with regards to the final product then the x070 seems to have been downgraded permanently to x060 position. The 70 cards used to be around 80% of the 80 cards performance and the 60 cards would be around 60% of the 80 cards performance.
Hope the power targets are not true though. I can cool a 500w card itself with ease, but even a 350w card heats up my computer room too much for around 3-4 months of the year so hope AMD comes out with something more power efficient with similar performance. Would love a sub 300w card with 50% more performance than a 3080. Granted I don't need to upgrade for the foreseeable future as only cyberpunk makes my 3080 struggle at 1440p, but there might be something released in the next 24 months that creates a need for an upgrade.
GoodBoy
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Yea, that could likely be the strategy nVidia follows. And I wouldn't underestimate Jensen.
As far as the prices the 4xxx will command, all depends on performance compared to 3xxx.
I don't want a card with 48Gb ram. I could likely handle a 600W GPU on my existing 1000W PSU, assuming I can find cables that fit the new GPU power connector for my Seasonic PSU (prefer not to use any adapters as I think those reduce the current capacity on the connection a little). But also I am not sure I can justify it until I get a faster LCD, as mine can only go 100Hz.
Still, there is no doubt a market for 4xxx in spite of all of these points.
GoldenTiger
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4k120+ is basically the only one. I run 4k60 still and am happy as a pig with my 3080. No killer apps look to be on the horizon for anything else at my res and refresh that would drive me to drop more cash on a new card.
If I look Pascal up the xx80 do not seem to be the big seller of their generation, if the steam hardware survey is any indication
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
(the super, Tis, etc.. and the 1650 type making that a bit cumberson, but to keep it very simple because I am not able to copy and paste it in excel)
1060: 7.45%
1070: 2.13%
1080: 1.29%
2060: 5.32%
2070: 1.39%
2080: 0.65%
3060: 2.78% (Ti at 1.82%), 4.60% total
3070: 2.13% (Ti at 0.96%), 3.09%
3080: 1.53% (Ti at 0.67%), 2.20%
I would imagine that the xx60-xx70 would again be multiple time more popular than the xx80 one, with how much cheaper a 160 bits 10 gig card could be versus a 256 bit - 16 gig one the 300w vs 420w and the number of games that a 4070 would have an issue to run on the mass monitor people play on.
If you mean hard to get your hands on, because the most popular among enthusiasts and demand relative to volume made for the direct sales, yes I would imagine that it would be again be the case too.
PS 3060/Ti and 3070/Ti combined seem to have finally took over the pure 1060 alone.
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The other aspect if Jensen can strike first is to get the notion out that the 4000 series is so good that it drove the previous generational prices into the dumpster.
Not because of the true reason of massive mining card sells.Same boat, looking for a worthy monitor to even take advantage of the 3090.
TaintedSquirrel
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You guys know what time it is, that's right, time for new specs. 4070 this time.
TL;DR - kopite says the previously leaked "4070 Ti" is actually the regular 4070, and it's actually 300W not 400W.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...now-rumored-with-more-cores-and-faster-memory
https://twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1555053945151975425
TL;DR - kopite says the previously leaked "4070 Ti" is actually the regular 4070, and it's actually 300W not 400W.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...now-rumored-with-more-cores-and-faster-memory
https://twitter.com/kopite7kimi/status/1555053945151975425
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Furious_Styles
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I haven't been keeping up, are they still supposed to launch the 4090 in sept.?
Not sure. I am still holding out hope we do. 3090 Tis keep dropping in price and it is very very tempting. One youtuber "in the know" is telling people they may delay another year. Said youtuber is paid by AIB so we all think they are still trying to tell people that 4090 is not coming so that people will buy the massive stock of 3xxx that still exists.
GoldenTiger
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Rumors say Oct for availability.
Absalom
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Jayztwocents says an Nvidia launch is likely a year from now:
Isn't speculation fun?
TheHig
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AMD is trying to launch something RDNA3 before years end so there is no way Nvidia will hold everything until 2023.
Upper end from both parties at least by the holidays is what seems likely. Now availability? Who knows.
Upper end from both parties at least by the holidays is what seems likely. Now availability? Who knows.
Gatecrasher3000
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I really don't understand the "buy 3000/6000 series cards now" consideration. The best time to buy the 3000/6000 series is AFTER the 4000/7000 series comes out. If you can wait a little bit you will get a killer discount, and you will also know if upgrading to the newest cards is worth it to you.
Comixbooks
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Not delayed but scalped for maybe two years so in 2024 after going to the EVGA que site 450 times you might be able to get one.
That obviously a possibility, but to take a recent example the best time to buy a Turing card was just before and not just after the 3000/6000 series came out too right ?
There is a possibility that:
4000/7000 will be lesser than anticipated/rumored
Harder to buy than anticipated
2 factor that could rise the price of 3000/6000 once those with stock get convinced they will be able to sell all of them because of the 2 elements above, not lesser it and obviously the crypto X factor
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Yes the best time to buy Turing was right after the announcement of Ampere because people panicked and listed their 2080 ti for the 3070 MSRP. Then Ampere availability sucked and the mining craze happened and prices went up accordingly.
Alternatively the new series are out of stock everywhere and only available via scalpers; Then suddenly those previous generation cards goes up in price. It could go either way.
harmattan
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Having gone through 15-20 of these cycles over the years, the best time to buy a card is 1-2 weeks before a launch, especially in the used market. After the release the last gen card prices notmalize to price/performance, then trend upward as supply dwindles.
This is how people were scooping up 2080 tis for $600, 1080s for $350, 980 tis for $400 before launches.
Comixbooks
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Was wondering who the leaker called KopiteKimi the Nvidia leaker I know I'll never figure it out. But I did a Youtube search this racer came up who is also nicknamed the Iceman. I figure he can leak all he wants cause he's a position where it doesn't even matter. Makes for good speculation anyway.
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TaintedSquirrel
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kopite has lowered the 4080 to 320W and the 4070 to 285W.
Also rumored a 20 GB AD102, 4080 Ti most likely.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...er-specs-mysterious-20gb-model-also-mentioned
Also rumored a 20 GB AD102, 4080 Ti most likely.
https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...er-specs-mysterious-20gb-model-also-mentioned
Does that mean they are confident the 4080 won’t get stomped by AMD so they don’t have to push power to compete or is the 4080 becoming a 4070?
DooKey
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It means he was fed garbage at the beginning and is trying to play CYA as release gets closer.
Axman
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Both AMD and Nvidia have leaked 500+ watt figures, although at least for AMD their leaks are for halo cards, not the whole top end. Also, those were probably for the multi-GPU parts that seem to have vanished from the consumer side of things.
It's all a game of chicken, I'm sure.
TaintedSquirrel
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The specs probably change a lot during the development cycle. As long as his final leaks before announcement are right, then I think that validates him.