Roomba Maker Plans to Sell Maps of Your Home

Megalith

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Do you own a Roomba? The little robot vacuum could have been mapping your home, and that data may be up for sale: Colin Angle, chief executive of Roomba maker iRobot, has admitted that the company is seeking a deal to sell its maps to one or more of the “Big Three” (Amazon, Apple, Google) in the next couple of years. The company released the Roomba 980 in 2015, a Wi-Fi model capable of collecting spacial data using visual localization, sensors, and more.

One potential downside is that selling data about users' homes raises clear privacy issues, said Ben Rose, an analyst who covers iRobot for Battle Road Research. Customers could find it "sort of a scary thing," he said. Angle said iRobot would not sell data without its customers' permission, but he expressed confidence most would give their consent in order to access the smart home functions.
 
I've got a 960 which maps my house. I'm not going to opt in. Besides, it only gets the floor that that the Roomba is on, and the doors are open to. So...it'll be rather lacking in info. It also thinks there are rooms that are just it going under couches
 
I've got a 960 which maps my house. I'm not going to opt in. Besides, it only gets the floor that that the Roomba is on, and the doors are open to. So...it'll be rather lacking in info. It also thinks there are rooms that are just it going under couches
There will be an update that will opt in for you automatically, then they'll issue an apology saying that this was a glitch, that's how this works.
 
So when the map database is hacked and the maps are sold on the black net to burglars that use them to more quickly steal your stuff or a child predator uses a map to break into your kids room, Roomba will make it all good? I really don't think some of these companies are considering the bad crap that can happen with some of this data. They just see $$$ after some freshly minted MBA pitches a proposal.
 
With free services like Google and Facebook, I can see a reason for selling your data, you're the product, not the customer.

But with a Roomba, something you paid hundreds of dollars for......F*** You iRobot.
 
If anonymously submitted, the spacial data is hardly a privacy concern.

Ha, the big three will get skewed feedback that 90% of homes worldwide are 3,000 cubic feet and larger based on the upperclass clientele that typically are the consumers of this kind of thing.
 
This is perfect! I'll get one of those refrigerators that will tell them what I'm actually cooking in the sous vide that's already providing them time and temperature. And one of those hair brushes that lets them know if I'm doing it right. Along with the shared data of my streaming service and browsing habits that they're already getting, I'll throw in a smart TV so they can listen in when we upgrade to Bluetooth sex toys that will upload motion data. Don't forget the Kinect so they can visually track me and my family. So why not complete it all with a mapped out floor plan? It'll be the fucking Truman Show!
 
Check out any of the long-exposure shots of a roomba going.

Example:
3522155656_7d0595a062.jpg

http://signaltheorist.com/?p=91

3516345388_41cb0e3853.jpg
 
Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.
 
Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.
Still what is the point of gathering data of every facet our lives by corporations?
 
Still what is the point of gathering data of every facet our lives by corporations?

So they can tailor what they're selling to what people want. The same reason every company does market research since the beginning of time. The only difference is the level of detail they can get these days.

In this case iRobot is selling it to Amazon/Google/Apple because they want the data for development of future "smart home" devices. (at least according to the article) I'm not a "smart home device" designer, so I can't say exactly how they'd use this data. Maybe tell you how many Amazon Echos you need to buy to cover your whole house. Or the best place to put your smart thermostat/TV/tablet combo to get the best microphone coverage. Or where to put your new wifi mesh nodes for the best signal house-wide.
 
Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.

Not only that but how would they know where I even live vs the map of my home. If I don't register my product, yea they have a map but they don't have an address. Ironically I bought a brand new home and my entire floor plan is on the internet anyways.

Then again... maybe i should put my address up...

 
If this is an opt-in ability, I'm ok with it. If they do it without asking, no.
I do use Amazon Echo is my house along with a Wink Hub. These devices are great for their convenience. However, I'm aware of what they could be collecting from me. I do not have any cameras in my house. I'm thinking about doing it for fun - see me in my undies once, you won't want to do it again (although possible I could end up on a Reddit subforum...)
 
imagine setting up a brand new Alexa one day.
She says "Dave, I'm in the wrong spot. I'd work so much better on top of the table next to your kitchen entrance."

I'd smash it so fast.

Or, after a week of frustratingly poor performance due to the terrible location you originally picked, you move it to the suggested spot and suddenly it works perfectly.

I can see some of the privacy concerns, but there'd be some benefits too in the case you described.

Or imagine you buy a couple mesh APs for your house...you run the configuration software, and click the "optimize based on floorplan" button, and it shows you exactly where to put the APs for the best coverage. Or the app tweaks the speaker settings on your home theater to get you the best sound based on the arrangement of your speakers, walls and furniture.
 
I'd like to buy a bunch, place them in a little box, let them bounce around the box, and opt-in to send fake data. :p
 
Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.

I could easily think of several scenarios where it could endanger your privacy and security. And I'm not going to spill them here to give people ideas.

If they are like any corporation they will automatically Opt-in you and to Opt-out you have to read the fine print in a 500 page EULA. That way they can claim, "Sure we got their consent because they didn't opt-out"
 
Screenshot_20170725-111426_zpsf8roqsz0.png


So...that's what they can get from my Roomba. Phantom rooms, weird designs. It can't tell what's a table, what's a couch, what size TV I have, what design anything is. What would concern me is if the little camera on top of the high end Roombas starts taking pictures and uploading those.
 
Or, after a week of frustratingly poor performance due to the terrible location you originally picked, you move it to the suggested spot and suddenly it works perfectly.

I can see some of the privacy concerns, but there'd be some benefits too in the case you described.

Or imagine you buy a couple mesh APs for your house...you run the configuration software, and click the "optimize based on floorplan" button, and it shows you exactly where to put the APs for the best coverage. Or the app tweaks the speaker settings on your home theater to get you the best sound based on the arrangement of your speakers, walls and furniture.

Receivers can do this best with their own built in analysis software and mics.
 
I could easily think of several scenarios where it could endanger your privacy and security. And I'm not going to spill them here to give people ideas.

If they are like any corporation they will automatically Opt-in you and to Opt-out you have to read the fine print in a 500 page EULA. That way they can claim, "Sure we got their consent because they didn't opt-out"

Spill them. I've been thinking for a while here, and I can't come up with any way they'd impact your security. Privacy? Sure, that depends on what you want private though. If your floorplan and where you put your couch in relation to your coffee table is private, then sure.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have an option to opt-out of the collection for people who choose to, I'm just honestly not seeing how this data could be used nefariously.

Receivers can do this best with their own built in analysis software and mics.

Sure, they can. But if they can get the data from another source, they don't HAVE to do it, making them cheaper. Or they can correlate their data and the second source for a more accurate final solution.
 
Spill them. I've been thinking for a while here, and I can't come up with any way they'd impact your security. Privacy? Sure, that depends on what you want private though. If your floorplan and where you put your couch in relation to your coffee table is private, then sure.

No I'm not. I said I'm not for a reason.


Sure, they can. But if they can get the data from another source, they don't HAVE to do it, making them cheaper. Or they can correlate their data and the second source for a more accurate final solution.
[/quote]

A room dimension can't tell you squat in terms of echo or frequency response, seating position or timing.
 
No I'm not. I said I'm not for a reason.

A room dimension can't tell you squat in terms of echo or frequency response, seating position or timing.

I mentioned I'm not a smart-home designer, I'm just tying to think of ways they might use the data. There's probably some things you could determine from knowing where the walls are, that does tell you something about echo response. You're not going to get a professional level tuning, but you can get something. Similar argument for planning a wifi layout.

On that same point though, the lack of detail is what makes it not a security concern, except for your secret unshareable ideas.
 
It be better if the robot could detect what type of products you use from the stuff if cleans up, then sell that data.
 
So...that's what they can get from my Roomba. Phantom rooms, weird designs. It can't tell what's a table, what's a couch, what size TV I have, what design anything is. What would concern me is if the little camera on top of the high end Roombas starts taking pictures and uploading those.

As soon as my roomba gets a picture of me masturbating, whoever is spying on me would move on to another house.
 
I mentioned I'm not a smart-home designer, I'm just tying to think of ways they might use the data. There's probably some things you could determine from knowing where the walls are, that does tell you something about echo response. You're not going to get a professional level tuning, but you can get something. Similar argument for planning a wifi layout.

On that same point though, the lack of detail is what makes it not a security concern, except for your secret unshareable ideas.

No it doesn't. You bass echo response based on frequency tuning (bass traps in corners) and first order reflection points which shift based on speaker placement and seating positions. And you can't do that with a room map.

To be honest the best speaker placement is in a room with non multiple dimensions (one dimension is not a multiple of another like 15x17 is good. 15x10 is not) And then you place the speakers 1/3 in the room width. And if that's not practical a 1/5th in. It doesn't require anything to map my room but a tape measure. Then you use the frequency waterfall graph using a spectrographic freq analyzer, or let your receiver handle it.

Wi fi tuning is questionable because antenna's use phase modulation tuning. And this is constantly shifting which might not indicate an accurate response from a simple spot reading. Besides the roomba is at ground level where things like tables and couches etc interfere. A more accurate setting would be about 30" off the ground.
 
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Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.

By itself, it isn't that useful. TFA mentioned iRobot's assumption that many smart home users will enable the data collection so they can have use of the smart features of their Roomba. Now imagine that the bad guys have a nice data dump of information gathered by your 'smart' crap.

Talk to Barbie: they know you have a 6 year old daughter named Sally and that uncle Bob visits on Fridays.
Samsung TV: They know what you watch and that you sometimes leave Sally watching Frozen while you go to the store for a few minutes.
Alexa, Siri, Cortana et. al. :They know where you live pretty well down to an exact address. All that crap you ordered on prime day went somewhere.
Google maps and many state land tax databases: a street view picture of your house + an overhead view.
Credit Card companies: records of all of your purchases.
Roomba: A map of your floor, at least the parts the gizmo runs around in.
Voter information: Party affiliation, how often you vote, etc.

Any ideas yet?
 
Screenshot_20170725-111426_zpsf8roqsz0.png


So...that's what they can get from my Roomba. Phantom rooms, weird designs. It can't tell what's a table, what's a couch, what size TV I have, what design anything is. What would concern me is if the little camera on top of the high end Roombas starts taking pictures and uploading those.

but i can clearly see where you store your huge ass sextoy..... man you are weird. :D
 
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No it doesn't. You bass echo response based on frequency tuning (bass traps in corners) and first order reflection points which shift based on speaker placement and seating positions. And you can't do that with a room map.

To be honest the best speaker placement is in a room with non multiple dimensions (one dimension is not a multiple of another like 15x17 is good. 15x10 is not) And then you place the speakers 1/3 in the room width. And if that's not practical a 1/5th in. It doesn't require anything to map my room but a tape measure. Then you use the frequency waterfall graph using a spectrographic freq analyzer, or let your receiver handle it.

Wi fi tuning is questionable because antenna's use phase modulation tuning. And this is constantly shifting which might not indicate an accurate response from a simple spot reading. Besides the roomba is at ground level where things like tables and couches etc interfere. A more accurate setting would be about 30" off the ground.

"Perfect" speaker placement requires more complex measurements, I do understand sound propagation. You need to know more about the surfaces involved, etc as well, which a Roomba can't tell you. BUT, if a given app can pull up a simple room drawing, it can give you "best guess" placement based on the outline. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing, and would meet the needs of the average consumer.

A similar explanation for APs. You need to know more about what the walls are made of, what frequencies are used, where the devices are located, what types of antennas, etc, etc to make a PERFECT map and recommendations. But, at the consumer level, a basic floorplan with "pretty close" measurements on room dimensions would be very useful for most people. The app producing those maps would know the antenna and amplifier characteristics of the APs at least, so they could produce a "good enough" set of recommendations.

These are just ideas that popped into my head anyway, I have no idea what Google/Amazon/Apple would actually DO with a floorplan of your house. That's just my personal ideas on what could be done with that sort of data.
 
By itself, it isn't that useful. TFA mentioned iRobot's assumption that many smart home users will enable the data collection so they can have use of the smart features of their Roomba. Now imagine that the bad guys have a nice data dump of information gathered by your 'smart' crap.

Talk to Barbie: they know you have a 6 year old daughter named Sally and that uncle Bob visits on Fridays.
Samsung TV: They know what you watch and that you sometimes leave Sally watching Frozen while you go to the store for a few minutes.
Alexa, Siri, Cortana et. al. :They know where you live pretty well down to an exact address. All that crap you ordered on prime day went somewhere.
Google maps and many state land tax databases: a street view picture of your house + an overhead view.
Credit Card companies: records of all of your purchases.
Roomba: A map of your floor, at least the parts the gizmo runs around in.
Voter information: Party affiliation, how often you vote, etc.

Any ideas yet?

  • Floor plan: I can tell where your bedroom and stairs are located. I can tell you have a potential gun safe in the basement.

  • Google aerial view: I can tell where your doors are and if you have fences. Are there obvious cameras?

  • Smart thermostat: Shifting signal strength of your phone collected by NEST to determine if you are home.

  • Smart watch: Health watch determines when you rest, and when you typically get up.

  • Smart Assistants: Alexa, Siri knows what you order. You order dog food, you have a dog that consumes XX/month indicating possible size. You also order beer which can determine your political orientation.

  • Smart Phone: You call a personal accountant which is known to handle wealthy investors.

So yeah, I see the problem.
 
Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.

Whenever I've needed a map of someone's house I've simply gone to the Assessor site, they will either have the blueprints or list the original builder, who likely had the floor plan listed on the website.
 
Someone explain to me how a spacial map of your home's floorplan and furniture layout could be used nefariously by ANYONE. This isn't a detailed picture of your home, this is essentially a line-drawing showing where the open spots on the floor are.

Clearly this is the final piece of information that big data needed to shows ads on webpages of things you didn't know you needed to buy and not things you ALREADY bought. Finally, ads will be personally tailored just for you.
 
So I do a lot of furniture restoration, sometimes it's recovering new things like a couch or rebuild a table. I often find RFID tags in odd places. Could these be tracked and used by the roomba? I guess these tags could issue the information to roomba , this way IKEA knows it's futon is located in a hall with 6 others knowing I am offering lodging for travelers on the AP Trail?? I dunno I don't like it and don't have one anyways.
 
Can't wait for the next news blurb about Roomba teaming up with Alexa and your smartphone to record your conversations to ruin your life. Let's not forget with all the microphones you'll soon have to pay patient royalties to whom ever owns your voice ;D People sure are buying crap they don't need.
 
  • Floor plan: I can tell where your bedroom and stairs are located. I can tell you have a potential gun safe in the basement.
  • Google aerial view: I can tell where your doors are and if you have fences. Are there obvious cameras?

  • Smart thermostat: Shifting signal strength of your phone collected by NEST to determine if you are home.

  • Smart watch: Health watch determines when you rest, and when you typically get up.

  • Smart Assistants: Alexa, Siri knows what you order. You order dog food, you have a dog that consumes XX/month indicating possible size. You also order beer which can determine your political orientation.

  • Smart Phone: You call a personal accountant which is known to handle wealthy investors.

So yeah, I see the problem.

Here's the problem...Most, if not all of that information can be had from other existing sources.

Second, anyone competent enough to collect all that information and compiled a detailed plan is also not the type of person who engages in home-intrusion break-ins.

Third, those are all potential risks (however small) of smart devices. None of them are the risks we discussed in the thread, of the Roomba-generated maps. A Roomba map can't tell a gun safe from a coffee table from a laundry hamper.
 
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