Ronin hacked, $600M in Ethereum stolen

Lakados

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180895_Grumpy-cat-good-meme.jpg


Because somebody had to post it.
 

GiGaBiTe

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I'd normally feel bad for people that got hacked and robbed blind, but dare I say these guys deserved it. Reading into their company just a bit, they're as slimy and predatory as they get. They make EA and their loot boxes look benign.

They LITERALLY created a MLM/Pyramid Scheme in the form of a game. You're required to buy three "NFTs" that are completely worthless using real world currency made by other players already in the game. So unless there was some sort of trial period where they gave out free NFTs to seed the market, you have an automatic MLM scheme going back to the game developers themselves. The game's economy is entirely reliant on an constant and regular endless stream of new players to buy worthless NFTs on the game market, or the entire thing implodes in on itself, which is the other part of the MLM/Pyramid Scheme.

And the amount you pay for a game that looks like the bastard red headed stepchild of Street Fighter and Pokemon is utterly insane. As of this post, the minimum amount you're required to spend is $51, with the current maximum being $3.40652 × 10^62. Yes, that's right a number so astronomically large that it requires scientific notation to express. Or about several quintillion times the world's current GDP. And because they didn't want to pay ETH network transaction fees, they duplicated the block chain to create their own shadow chain with their own transaction and verification servers so they could keep all of that money. Why on earth would they go through that insane amount of work rather than just take normal currency directly is probably because there's some quasi-legal financial nonsense going on behind the scenes and the more they obfuscate, the less chance they'll be caught.

This is better than when Miniscribe was shuffling boxes of Colorado clay bricks around in inventory to inflate their sales numbers.
 

AceGoober

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So that is what was in the suitcase in Ronin. :D

Never heard of Axie Infinity until now. Not interested.
 

M76

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Can someone explain how is this game not a pyramid scheme? It literally starts by having to buy the "starter package" from those already invested in the "game".
 

Armenius

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Can someone explain how is this game not a pyramid scheme? It literally starts by having to buy the "starter package" from those already invested in the "game".
It's funny you mention that because there is another scene in the South Park movie where Butters is explaining it at an old folks prison and stacks Tupperware like a pyramid.



 

waderunner

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I wonder about whether public law enforcement resources should be spent on cases like this. As a tax payer (in the USA), I don't want to pay for securing unregulated markets, particular when a main aim of the market participants is to transact outside the bounds of recognized laws and regulations.

Looks like Sky Mavis is in Vietnam. To be honest, I haven't followed these kinds of cases, and have no idea how much law enforcement has involved itself in crypto crimes, in the US or elsewhere.
 

MrGuvernment

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I wonder about whether public law enforcement resources should be spent on cases like this. As a tax payer (in the USA), I don't want to pay for securing unregulated markets, particular when a main aim of the market participants is to transact outside the bounds of recognized laws and regulations.

Looks like Sky Mavis is in Vietnam. To be honest, I haven't followed these kinds of cases, and have no idea how much law enforcement has involved itself in crypto crimes, in the US or elsewhere.
People spend real money to get a product, if the company is registered in the U.S yes they absolutely should be investigated.

Doesnt matter if they bought NFTs or skins for a character, take the company to court, full investigation, look at incompetence and sue.
 

auntjemima

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I wonder about whether public law enforcement resources should be spent on cases like this. As a tax payer (in the USA), I don't want to pay for securing unregulated markets, particular when a main aim of the market participants is to transact outside the bounds of recognized laws and regulations.

Looks like Sky Mavis is in Vietnam. To be honest, I haven't followed these kinds of cases, and have no idea how much law enforcement has involved itself in crypto crimes, in the US or elsewhere.

You would pay less as a tax payer for the one off examples of this happening than you would for the new hires and department and constant monitoring of a regulated market.
 

idiomatic

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NFT Pay To Earn games are just gold farming, where gold farming is the main point of the game, and the gold farmers are indentured with debt to enter the game.

They made gold farming worse.
 

[Spectre]

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Japanese Samurai without a master have been hacked, How???????????
 

noko

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Can someone explain how is this game not a pyramid scheme? It literally starts by having to buy the "starter package" from those already invested in the "game".
I asked myself why was there even 600 million $ worth of assets that could be nabbed? And that is not even the whole amount of assets for a rarely in general played game -> I would suspect more a laundering scheme, washing Eth so to speak into fresh wallets.
 

LukeTbk

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I asked myself why was there even 600 million $ worth of assets that could be nabbed? And that is not even the whole amount of assets for a rarely in general played game -> I would suspect more a laundering scheme, washing Eth so to speak into fresh wallets.
According to this:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tren...rding to the report, Axie,the end of the year.

Expected to have around 10 millions players by 2022 (there were over 8 millions in 2021)

At some point it was over $100 to start a team according to this (and it was much more expensive, like 10 times at some other point and much less at other):
https://www.gfinityesports.com/cryp...-much-to-start-playing-axs-nft-slp-team-cost/

Making a 600 millions figure sound somewhat possible.

Disclaimer, I never heard any of this before now and that was a quick google.
 

next-Jin

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The vast majority of all of these are scams or have completely failed tokenomics. There are some great projects out there where the developers are known (with some even being in the United States making YouTube updates). They have a tangible product trying to solve a problem. Those I tend to look at early. And not solving a stupid problem either, everyone says they solve something which is bs. I’m talking about things that cause huge shifts (Amazon in 2000 for example).

Some like STRONG have known developers with backing but still have very shady entry conditions and don’t allow anyone to host a node. You have 0 control over anything. You buy STRONG which pays for the early adopters and hope more people come in to pay you. They have a roadmap for future third parties to utilize your nodes but that’s highly questionable since they are all in Singapore iirc.

I tend to avoid any DAO and gaming cryptos. Sure you might get lucky but unless you jump on as soon as it launches and sell your initial investment soon afterwards you’ll likely lose from what I’ve seen.

Unless you have a really deep understanding of crypto, the newest coding principles and designs, and a good understanding of economics and value trading you can loose everything very quickly.
 

kirbyrj

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The vast majority of all of these are scams or have completely failed tokenomics. There are some great projects out there where the developers are known (with some even being in the United States making YouTube updates). They have a tangible product trying to solve a problem. Those I tend to look at early. And not solving a stupid problem either, everyone says they solve something which is bs. I’m talking about things that cause huge shifts (Amazon in 2000 for example).

Some like STRONG have known developers with backing but still have very shady entry conditions and don’t allow anyone to host a node. You have 0 control over anything. You buy STRONG which pays for the early adopters and hope more people come in to pay you. They have a roadmap for future third parties to utilize your nodes but that’s highly questionable since they are all in Singapore iirc.

I tend to avoid any DAO and gaming cryptos. Sure you might get lucky but unless you jump on as soon as it launches and sell your initial investment soon afterwards you’ll likely lose from what I’ve seen.

Unless you have a really deep understanding of crypto, the newest coding principles and designs, and a good understanding of economics and value trading you can loose everything very quickly.

You're missing the point of a lot of the posters here. They don't care about crypto. They are complaining because they blame crypto for inflated GPU prices. The fact that it could possibly have any utility or value at all is lost on them.
 

auntjemima

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This is exactly why I can't ever "invest" in crypto... Mining is one thing, but knowingly giving an exchange your money hoping you'll make more is ludacris to me...
You knowingly give your money to corporations through stalks in the hope you'll make more. Ludacris!

See how silly that sounded? Calling crypto a scam and useless and whatever other adjective you felt like using in 2010ish, I might have supported you. But now? Nah.

The bigger issue with crypto is the lax security. Banks don't get hacked like this because they always think they will. Constantly worry and watching. Crypto came out and goes "lol blockchain go brrrr" with constant talk about how it's "on the blockchain and can be tracked", so I think people assume it's impervious to outside agents, when that's a horrible opinion to have of something so backed by technology.
 

NightReaver

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You're missing the point of a lot of the posters here. They don't care about crypto. They are complaining because they blame crypto for inflated GPU prices. The fact that it could possibly have any utility or value at all is lost on them.
Lol, a lot of the people supposedly "into" crypto don't care about it any further than "can I get rich from this?"

They don't care about the utility of crypto anymore than the average forum poster that blames it for gpu prices (it is A factor, just not THE factor).
 

kirbyrj

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Lol, a lot of the people supposedly "into" crypto don't care about it any further than "can I get rich from this?"

They don't care about the utility of crypto anymore than the average forum poster that blames it for gpu prices (it is A factor, just not THE factor).

I did say "value" in my post. That should cover the "can I get rich" people. Even if that's all they care about, "getting rich" is still utility in its own way.

The nonsensical posting of the grumpy cat "Good" meme is about as useful as the crypto faithful telling those people "have fun being poor."
 

NightReaver

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I did say "value" in my post. That should cover the "can I get rich" people. Even if that's all they care about, "getting rich" is still utility in its own way.

My point is the nonsensical posting of the grumpy cat "Good" meme is about as useful as the crypto faithful telling those people "have fun being poor."
Nonsensical to you, maybe. To those who are invested into it. But what about someone who isn't? Crypto does affect gpu prices. So to some people on a...oh, idk, hardware forum that mostly does with pc gaming who also happen to not financially rely on crypto, maybe it isn't so nonsensical.

The only silver lining is when maybe a bunch of used gpus get dumped on ebay for super cheap. Still have yet to see that happen this time around.
 

kirbyrj

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Nonsensical to you, maybe. To those who are invested into it. But what about someone who isn't? Crypto does affect gpu prices. So to some people on a...oh, idk, hardware forum that mostly does with pc gaming who also happen to not financially rely on crypto, maybe it isn't so nonsensical.

The only silver lining is when maybe a bunch of used gpus get dumped on ebay for super cheap. Still have yet to see that happen this time around.

Maybe the GPU shortage wasn't caused by crypto after all...hence you're not seeing a big GPU dump... People have been blaming the wrong boogey man for a year and a half. Not to mention, mining has been more profitable lately than any time in the past 6 months. BUT in the past two weeks suddenly you are seeing stock everywhere. People are falling over themselves to sell you a 3090 in FS/FT. 3090Tis are readily available. There is a $499 3060Ti available at Microcenter.
 

NightReaver

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Maybe the GPU shortage wasn't caused by crypto after all...hence you're not seeing a big GPU dump...
Don't recall saying anything about the gpu shortage. But yes, crypto is a factor in more sales per buyer. Why are you getting hung up on singular causes? Do you dispute that it is a factor at all?
 

kirbyrj

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Don't recall saying anything about the gpu shortage. But yes, crypto is a factor in more sales per buyer. Why are you getting hung up on singular causes? Do you dispute that it is a factor at all?

Minor factor...

Case in point: Next gen consoles. They haven't been readily available since launch, and you can't mine on them. If crypto were a major factor, consoles shouldn't be suffering from availability issues.

And the reason I'm even defending it is because I think the grumpy cat meme and the 25 people who liked the post are wrong.
 
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Nobu

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Minor factor...

Case in point: Next gen consoles. They haven't been readily available since launch, and you can't mine on them. If crypto were a major factor, consoles shouldn't be suffering from availability issues.

And the reason I'm even defending it is because I think the grumpy cat meme and the 25 people who liked the post are wrong.
I don't. In this case, it sounds exactly like a pyramid scheme. The sooner it's dismantled, the better.
 

MrGuvernment

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Minor factor...

Case in point: Next gen consoles. They haven't been readily available since launch, and you can't mine on them. If crypto were a major factor, consoles shouldn't be suffering from availability issues.

And the reason I'm even defending it is because I think the grumpy cat meme and the 25 people who liked the post are wrong.
Bingo!

People fail to realize that AMD is contractually obligated to provide I think 80%? of their supply to MS and Sony for consoles....and the shortages as you know, and sadly not enough other people, is due to supply chain issues in general, nothing to do with mining.

Now for NVIDIA..well that could be another story :D
 

Lakados

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Bingo!

People fail to realize that AMD is contractually obligated to provide I think 80%? of their supply to MS and Sony for consoles....and the shortages as you know, and sadly not enough other people, is due to supply chain issues in general, nothing to do with mining.

Now for NVIDIA..well that could be another story :D
Qualcomm has pulled their Snapdragon production from Samsung their internal memo’s stated their fab rate was as low as 35% and they are spinning up the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2’s at TSMC.
I really think Nvidia's biggest hurdle this gen was Samsung more than the Miners.
That said if MSI or Evga decided to send a pallet or two directly to a mining operation instead of a retailer that’s on the them not Nvidia.
When the miners hit their next upgrade cycle I’m going to be watching those used cards that flood the sites to see what brands they are, if it’s a completely random selection than it is what it is, but if they are overwhelmingly one or two brands that’s pretty showing that they were working together in my opinion.
 

next-Jin

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You're missing the point of a lot of the posters here. They don't care about crypto. They are complaining because they blame crypto for inflated GPU prices. The fact that it could possibly have any utility or value at all is lost on them.

Oh I know they don’t, I was sort of proving their point. I was just tipping my hat to the few projects that have some type of actual use case that makes sense. Not all crypto projects are GPU mining hogs.
 

HeadRusch

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You're missing the point of a lot of the posters here. They don't care about crypto. They are complaining because they blame crypto for inflated GPU prices. The fact that it could possibly have any utility or value at all is lost on them.

Well, take mining out of the equation and the only people buying high end gaming GPU's again will be nerd gamers like our lot and.....who?

There are plenty of good things that can be done with blockchain. Mining the crypto currency of the moment being one of them for some people, but I still can't shake the feeling that when a new unregulated digital currency can be created almost on a whim, that someone pitching me to invest in it may as well be pitching me to invest in a timeshare condo......that's me, your mileage may vary.
 

Armenius

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The vast majority of all of these are scams or have completely failed tokenomics. There are some great projects out there where the developers are known (with some even being in the United States making YouTube updates). They have a tangible product trying to solve a problem. Those I tend to look at early. And not solving a stupid problem either, everyone says they solve something which is bs. I’m talking about things that cause huge shifts (Amazon in 2000 for example).

Some like STRONG have known developers with backing but still have very shady entry conditions and don’t allow anyone to host a node. You have 0 control over anything. You buy STRONG which pays for the early adopters and hope more people come in to pay you. They have a roadmap for future third parties to utilize your nodes but that’s highly questionable since they are all in Singapore iirc.

I tend to avoid any DAO and gaming cryptos. Sure you might get lucky but unless you jump on as soon as it launches and sell your initial investment soon afterwards you’ll likely lose from what I’ve seen.

Unless you have a really deep understanding of crypto, the newest coding principles and designs, and a good understanding of economics and value trading you can loose everything very quickly.
What problem is the supposedly "good" products trying to solve? I and others have been asking that from NFT believers for months and we never get a straight answer. They dance around the question. I don't see any utility in NFT that existing processes and systems don't already handle without adding the needless complexity of blockchain.
 
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