“Rogue One” Reviewed: Is It Time To Abandon The “Star Wars” Franchise?

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    *SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILER*
    Suicide mission. Virtually everyone you see on film, mostly middle-eastern in appearance, dies in their suicide attack, Jihad style.

    The only confusing part for me that didn't fit, and maybe because I don't know enough about Star Wars, is that I recall them saying that "the Bothan's died to bring us this intel", and yet nobody in Rogue One was specifically identified as being "Bothan". Bothan's, I thought, were supposed to be dog looking people, and there were no dog looking people.
     
  2. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    What I was trying to say is that a script like you seem to believe existed wouldn't even have survived until principal photography started, much less all the way until the reshoots were done earlier this year. Principal photography is what the primary filming of a movie is called. So I'm saying that Disney would have forced a rewrite of an overly political script before the movie would have even started initial filming. We know the ending of the movie was reshot. Beyond that I have some theories on what was reshot but I'd need to rewatch the movie to try and verify my suspicions, but a lot of scenes where some of the effects feel off seem likely candidates for rushed reshoots so close to the movie coming out.

    Suicide missions aren't exclusive to the Middle-East. They're not an uncommon trope in movies that want to give war or a mission some kind of impact. Don't forget that the movie was originally written with Jyn and Cassian surviving. The setting of the movie kind of forced them into a situation where the characters had to die. They were all new characters that were never mentioned or shown anywhere else in the franchise. They had to die or be put in a situation where their absence wouldn't completely ruin already established canon. You want to give impact to the challenge of getting the Death Star plans? Well, you kill off the entire team that got them. In a less rushed, less massively reshot, movie the characters would have had more character and we would have actually cared about the two leads, but they tried. Also, I don't think you quite understand the movie making process. There is little chance that the script specifically called for middle-eastern extras as the random cannon fodder and writers aren't in charge of casting. So unless you're going to claim that the casting director and the actual director are also part of this big conspiracy you're making up......
     
  3. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Of course not, but your obtuse pretense is tiring. Your argument is akin to "dogs aren't the only four legged animals", which is true. And add "Dogs aren't the only animals that like to chew on bones and bark." Then top it off with "Dogs aren't the only animals with wet noses and a good sense of smell". Then "Dogs aren't the only animals that like to play fetch and are man's best friend."

    Independently, none of the myriad of examples are exclusive to the middle-east, but when you take them all together, as a whole, its hard to see anything but that, just as the dog descriptions could be anything taken individually, but as a whole we all know you're talking about a dog. I know you know this, so stop pretending.
    "Conspiracy you're making up"... you mean, what the writers themselves have said they intended, and goes far beyond a few middle-eastern extras as was already explained to you. The imagery is saturated throughout the film, from crashing two Imperial ships into buildings, IED-like random explosives, urban desert city assaults on troops, militant religious cave bases, black hoods in kidnappings, etc. I don't think you know what the word "conspiracy" means. If I'm the writer and say that the Empire is supposed to represent white supremacy, and is intentionally cast as only white males, that's not a conspiracy to repeat what they are saying. "Conspiracy theory" is simply a tired catchphrase overused by the ctrl-Left when they don't like what they are hearing.
     
  4. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Stop taking what people in Hollywood say at face value. The Empire in R1 is no different than the Empire in A New Hope 40 years ago. The writers can claim whatever they want, but they're not writing a radically different Empire than has always existed. There are parallels to every oppressive government that has ever existed. The Rebellion has parallels to every rebellion in recorded history. There is nothing unique about it that specifically ties it to modern issues. The movie could have been made in the 70s and they wouldn't have to change a thing about the story. You are still seeing only what you want to see.
     
  5. pxc

    pxc [H]ard as it Gets

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  6. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, except there is... I posted paragraphs worth of effort they went to to draw a picture. The writers have also spelled it out. And there's precedent, where previous Star Wars films per George Lucas himself were meant to make you feel sympathy for the Viet-cong.
    You realize that's what I'm telling you about yourself, right? When the subtext is so apparent, and the people making the movie tell you that's what they meant, and you still refuse to see it... its not everyone else that's wrong.

    Reminds me of the liberal mindset towards militant Islamists...
     
  7. GilmourD

    GilmourD [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's amazing how many of you fell for Megalith's news trolling.
     
  8. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wrong Death Star.

    I mean, really... if you don't even know what movie/storyline is being discussed maybe you should take your trolling elsewhere. I can tell you're trying really hard, but the SJW trolling strategy only works if you actually know enough about the topic to not be an obvious phony. I'm sorry if somebody posting a picture of a diaper pin on twitter hurt your feelings, but trolling his thread isn't going to get you revenge for that or whatever it is that crawled up your butt about R1.
     
  9. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It's amazing how many people here still fall for Ducman69's gaslighting.
     
  10. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Wew, lad! Talk about triggered... as I said, 'maybe because I don't know enough about star wars'. I've watched all the films, but its been many years since seeing the originals, but I watched Rogue One the other day (not sure about you, but I remember stuff from yesterday better than 1997). Take a deep breath, bro.

    If it makes you feel any better, as I said before, political agenda aside, its a great movie with awesome action scenes and CGI. Especially the ending with Vader was awesome.
     
  11. naib

    naib [H]ard|Gawd

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    Many bothan died to get the 2nd deathstar plans.

    The scrolling words at the start of a new hope describe the daring rebel attack to steal the plans for the 1st death star.
    Rogue1 ends about 10mon before ANH starts
     
  12. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    Cool film, really enjoyed it. Essential watching for anyone remotely into Starwars.
    I'm getting it on Blu Ray, welcome to my seatshaker, mwahhhahahaaa.
     
  13. aeonrevolution

    aeonrevolution 2[H]4U

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    Arguing anything about the reshoot is a moot point. The reshoot was done to ALLOW the writers to kill off everyone in Rogue One.

    http://collider.com/rogue-one-original-ending/

    So, like, anyone using a vague and ambiguous "reshoot" bit of evidence to further a political argument is just making shit up at this point.
     
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  14. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Why did they have to bring back the ENTIRE cast for reshoots, if they only reshot the ending scene? Riz Ahmed even stated, "There were a ton of reshoots", and fact that so much was different in the early trailers from the final film shows that more than just the ending was changed.

    So, like, anyone claiming that only the ending was "reshot" to counter the obvious political argument that the writers themselves say were intended is just making shit up at this point.
     
  15. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    A lot more than the ending was reshot. Reshooting a couple ending scenes would take a couple days and writing it would be a simple process. Tony Gillroy was paid upwards of $5 MILLION to rewrite portions of the script for the reshoots. $20k-ish per day is around the average going rate for that job according to what I've heard. He also spent several weeks, if not a couple months, reworking the script. He was also on hand to help edit and finish the movie, getting final cut decision along with the director. While Disney, Edwards, and Lucasfilm are downplaying it it has been reported that as much as 40% of the movie might have been reshot. The movie wasn't even finished until the end of last month. The only thing confirmed is that the ending was reshot to remove Cassian and Jyn escaping, but you don't pay someone $5m and give them equal control over a movie for just a minor change like that.

    However, anyone claiming they know what the film was before the reshoots is lying. No one knows outside of the people involved with the movie and making claims to the contrary are pointless. Unless they put deleted scenes on the disc release or someone reveals what the original script was like we will never truly know why Disney wanted extensive changes. Just watching the movie makes it obvious a lot of stuff was changed and cut, so much feels disjointed and massive leaps of "character" development happens with no provocation. Then there are some very obviously unfinished effects shots with some way too obvious models that look like they were shot quickly.
     
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  16. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    One thing I just stumbled upon, which might be old news to some, is a fan made Star Wars film called IMPS:



    Its interesting, because if you think about it, the Storm Troopers in most Star Wars films have been portrayed as peace keepers, protecting civilians and commerce from criminal elements like pirates and bandits and the like. They don't just shoot on site, and typically investigate first and try to place under arrest and, well, act kind of like cops or US/UN troops in warzone areas.

    But the rebels shoot Storm Troopers on site, without any feeling or remorse whatsoever, and they are really dehumanized, making the audience forget that these are people with families and lives of their own just trying to do their jobs to maintain law and order (even if some of their chatter in this fan-production is a bit over the top, heh). So this is really cool.
     
  17. CSI_PC

    CSI_PC 2[H]4U

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    Just seen the film today, yeah late to the party :)
    To me this is a great film that captures the essence of Episode IV, not just with the sounds/effects but also aspects of the highs and lows and with a script/directing that compliments the original film very well.
    Shame we will not have the same director/writers for Episode VIII, I appreciate the director of Looper could be good but this team did a great job with Rogue One.

    On a slightly different tangent, anyone else find it sad that this film is actually darker-violent than effing Suicide Squad :(
    Depressing state when the Suicide Squad feels more like a kids action film when it was meant to be closer to Deadpool, with this Disney film also being grittier.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  18. evilsofa

    evilsofa [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Star Wars IX will now have to be very substantially rewritten for the simple reason that Carrie Fisher was going to play a major starring role.

    Obviously, she was assassinated by Darth Trump and StormTrooper Bannon.
     
  19. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

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    Nah they could just CGI her in like they did young her and Tarkin in Rogue One.
     
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  20. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    They took out $45 mil insurance on her so yep, they can afford the CGI tax.
    (edit $41 mil in truth)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  21. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Actually, Suicide Squad was known for having virtually zero humor in it originally. They did some heavy reshooting to give it some humor because the fans were concerned it was too dark and gritty. This is why parts of the film seem incongruent with the rest of the movie. Rogue One is the darkest Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back without a doubt.
     
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  22. pxc

    pxc [H]ard as it Gets

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  23. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    I know you say that in jest, but really with all the praise of a strong female lead in this movie I don't see it. Sure, the plot and motivation is anchored to her character's history, but in my opinion there really was no lead in this ensemble cast. Every character moved the plot forward in some significant way and it seemed to me no one character got more screen time than anyone else.
     
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  24. CSI_PC

    CSI_PC 2[H]4U

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    Ah that is interesting.
    TBH I do not mind humour but I found Suicide Squad's action-dialogue-characters just not that mature-gritty (or even that dark) and what one should expect from a Suicide Squad film (my expectations were also unfortunately skewed as there was talks about how they could get close to Deadpool but with the PG-13), does look like the producers chickened out of sticking to what it should be and one reason I think it will fail when compared to Deadpool and Rogue One; the latter two showed they were fully committed to what the story-film needed.
    Cheers
     
  25. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ummm, you just left the theater after watching the movie "walked out of the movie"?

    or

    You just got the hell up and left in the middle "walked out of the movie"?
     
  26. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Actually, I don't get that at all.

    See, now I am not a crazy in the weeds Star Wars fan so I could easily be wrong, but in the first movies I thought of the Storm Troopers as regular soldiers, and then came the pre-sequels and they dropped the clones on me and I was like wow, all the Storm Troopers are clones, they are all Boba-Fets. And then that starts making a lot of sense to me, that the Storm Troopers are a clone army. Then here comes The Force Awakens and I am back to WTF ! Over ? Here's a clone who's not a clone?

    So yes, they got this old man a little confused, and I watched the first one back in 75 in the theaters so I am not new to it all. Still, I always find a way to enjoy them.

    Perhaps I was born to be pleasantly confused
     
  27. whateverer

    whateverer Gawd

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    Right, the first thing I said to the people I went with was, "they got a great cast together and managed to pull off an excellent dark movie." Nobody in particular stood out, and that's how a side-story should be.

    The second thing I said was: "ZERO Bothans died to bring us this information :D"

    Too bad they ditched the intrigue for a big glorious battle, but it worked well enough. Apparently this film wanted to glorify humans and Mon Calamari as the only true saviors of the galaxy.
     
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  28. farscapesg1

    farscapesg1 2[H]4U

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    My wife laughed at the way the Empire was still using "tape storage" while the rebels had "USB" technology, in reference to the death star plans :p

    Other than that, i didn't really walk out of the theater thinking "that was great". When the favorite character in the movie was K-2SO... eh, something was just ho-hum. I like to get "attached" to characters in movies, and that didn't happen for any of them. In the end, I didn't really care what happened to them (except for poor K-2SO).
     
  29. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I was reading where all along during filming they kept expecting Disney would tell them that they couldn't kill off all these new characters, cause this is Disney and they just don't do that kind of stuff, but in the end they allowed it. Maybe the director and others did this on purpose, tried not to encourage viewers to bond with the characters so there wouldn't be such an emotional downer when they all got killed off.

    I didn't like it when the blind Jedi was killed, or K-2SO, but the rest, it was like "so what". I think it was on purpose. I'll give them credit for it anyway.
     
  30. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Thought Rogue One was substantially better than The Force Awakens.

    That being said, that storage facility was a little wtf. Hand manipulating levers to pull out magnetic hard drives in 1,000 foot high storage...hmm.
     
  31. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    I wondered about that, too...I was expecting to see some Bothans. :(

    Actually, though, it was a line in RotJ referencing the second Death Star, so I guess it makes sense.
     
  32. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wasn't that from Return of the Jedi where they even mention Bothans?
     
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  33. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    How the hell could you see the hand things if it went around the back of the pillar?
     
  34. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    Yeah, I edited my post right after. ;)
     
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  35. Ducman69

    Ducman69 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not your fault, as the movies don't really explain it, but the cartoons do (and are actually quite entertaining).

    Basically, the clone troopers came first (Jango Fett though, as Boba was one of the unaltered clones he adopted as a son), and actually fought under the leadership of Jedi. Palpatine reveals himself as the Sith lord though, and issues command 66 to the clone troopers (via a chip implanted in their heads), who then execute all the jedi (well most, anyway). Now the empire is born, and the clone troopers become storm troopers, but no new clones are ever made and the clones are gradually phased out with volunteers from the empire. Supposedly Jango Fett's DNA was getting old and the empire was huge so it was easier just to recruit people from within the empire, and volunteers that believed in the empire were more stable and loyal than the clones turned out to be.

    And Force Awakens is even later and technically not the empire but the first order, who are basically just white supremacist space-nazis and overall kind of lame and as believable as bad guys as Rey was believable as Mary Sue heroine. The first order apparently does some kind of brain-washing, but the whole movie doesn't really make sense, so its best not to think too much about that movie.
     
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  36. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ha, great question. Since they're purposefully building the most user-unfriendly storage system in the Galaxy, perhaps there is a 2nd room on the other side of the facility to access those...good things our protagonists chose the right one!
     
  37. CaptNumbNutz

    CaptNumbNutz Bulls[H]it Master

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    1. Almost all that crap in the Star Wars Universe is controlled by droids which leaves an easy excuse for these things.
    2. There were computer terminals there. I'm assuming trained techs and droids would know how to use the system properly so they wouldn't have to eyeball it.
    3. There was a droid in the hallway hacking into the system, the base was on lockdown. Maybe the usual user-friendly systems got locked out due to security?
    4. Someone else mention other rooms, possibly with their own set of robot arms.

    The droid downloaded the map to the facility and told them which room to pick if there was in fact a different room. We never got good camera angles to see if that was the case.
     
  38. CaptNumbNutz

    CaptNumbNutz Bulls[H]it Master

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    Perfect short explanation. So many people missed the Clone Wars TV show. What's crazy is the CGI TV show was infinitely better done than any of the Prequels and filled in massive plot holes that were created in the universe. Now Star Wars:Rebels (on Disney XD channel) is starting to fill in quite a few more pieces of the puzzle, including where the Death Star was actually assembled (Geonosis...that bug planet from Episode 2) and that the super laser was powered by Kyber crystals that were used in the light sabers.

    This part isn't fully correct. The backstory for Episode 7 is being fleshed out right now in various books and comics all for the sake of the almighty dollar. I hate that they did it this way since it leaves so many people in the dark.

    The First Order IS what is left of the Empire. The best analogy I can give is if the Empire was the Nazis, then the First Order would be the remaining SS if they didn't surrender and created a 4th Reich in Argentina.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  39. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    I loved Clone Wars but Rebels hasn't really grown on me...watched a few eps and didn't really go back to it.
     
  40. piscian18

    piscian18 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You can skip most of it, go watch episodes 218-219 I believe. Mainly 219 it's the season finale. It's pretty crazy *cough cough Vader cough Asoka cough*

    Frankly while I still enjoy maybe 1 in 3 episodes I will openly admit its so-so, however really recommend watching the last couple episodes of season 2. Shit gets dark.
     
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