Rift now that controllers are out? or Vive?

harsaphes

harsaphes

Supreme [H]ardness
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Trying to make a decision about where to spend my money on one of these systems. I'm all set to jump into the Vive world but I want to hear what the community here has to say now that the Rift controllers are out (or coming).
Stick with original choice or go to the Darkside?
 
So who's the "Darkside" here??? It's also kind of hard for people to recommend a system based on controllers that are not widely available yet. From what I've heard and read, the Rift has the more comfortable HMD and controllers. I've got a Rift and it's great for what it does but I'm hoping that adding controllers will kick it up a notch.
 
USMCGrunt said:
So who's the "Darkside" here??? It's also kind of hard for people to recommend a system based on controllers that are not widely available yet. From what I've heard and read, the Rift has the more comfortable HMD and controllers. I've got a Rift and it's great for what it does but I'm hoping that adding controllers will kick it up a notch.
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Dark side is a joke aimed at those who fear the Facebook integration....Are you happy with the game selection?
 
harsaphes said:
Dark side is a joke aimed at those who fear the Facebook integration....Are you happy with the game selection?
Click to expand...

Very happy. So far Oculus has the most "Complete" games in the VR space vs what's available for Vive - never mind the fact that the Rift can play Vive games as well.

I've played The Unspoken at Best Buy a couple weeks ago. It's one of the games that's set to be released for free with Touch preorders along with Dead and Buried. I'm very much looking forward to playing it at home.
 
I think rift vs vive is shaping up to be somewhat like console vs PC.

Valve looks to be taking an iterative approach on hardware and there will be completely new controllers, lighthouses, and wireless adapters (though those should theoretically work for rift as well) from them and their partners next year as well as who knows what kind of crazy stuff from 3rd parties. You will be able to stay on the cutting edge with vive as incremental updates are released, but you will pay more for it.

I think once Touch is released, the Oculus HW will be pretty stable until the full Rift 2 is released. I don't have any solid evidence for that but that seems to be their path based on what they've said. Oculus has an unquestionable advantage on games. It will soon have access to the entire SteamVR library in addition to the Oculus funded exclusives on their own store. As a vive owner I haven't minded the controller based exclusives so far, but the motion control ones will bother me if they don't eventually make it to Steam. Oculus has stated that games not completely developed by them are only meant to be timed exclusives or "first on rift", but we'll see how that actually pans out.

A space that needs a third camera for rift roomscale where 2 suffices for vive is a non-trivial advantage for vive. It will be interesting to where the upper limit is on volume that a 2 camera rift system can reliably handle.
 
pj- said:
I think rift vs vive is shaping up to be somewhat like console vs PC.

Valve looks to be taking an iterative approach on hardware and there will be completely new controllers, lighthouses, and wireless adapters (though those should theoretically work for rift as well) from them and their partners next year as well as who knows what kind of crazy stuff from 3rd parties. You will be able to stay on the cutting edge with vive as incremental updates are released, but you will pay more for it.

I think once Touch is released, the Oculus HW will be pretty stable until the full Rift 2 is released. I don't have any solid evidence for that but that seems to be their path based on what they've said. Oculus has an unquestionable advantage on games. It will soon have access to the entire SteamVR library in addition to the Oculus funded exclusives on their own store. As a vive owner I haven't minded the controller based exclusives so far, but the motion control ones will bother me if they don't eventually make it to Steam. Oculus has stated that games not completely developed by them are only meant to be timed exclusives or "first on rift", but we'll see how that actually pans out.

A space that needs a third camera for rift roomscale where 2 suffices for vive is a non-trivial advantage for vive. It will be interesting to where the upper limit is on volume that a 2 camera rift system can reliably handle.
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There's something worth pointing out here that seems to cause a lot of confusion - Valve does not make VR hardware. They come up with technology (patents) and license them out to hardware developers who are willing to pay to use them. Right now HTC is the only company licensed to use Valve's VR tech, but there will more than likely be more in the future.

Valve owns Steam and OpenVR*. Valve wants to make as much money as possible from Steam, and therefore supports any/all VR headsets including Rift, Vive, OSVR, and almost any other HMD that is willing. Oculus' VR API also works with Steam, and there are a few games on Steam that only work with Oculus HMD (Obduction being one of them), but all applications written in the OpenVR API work with the Rift.

Bottom line: If you want the VR headset with the most games/applications available, get a Rift+Touch controllers.

The motion controller that showed up at Steam Dev Days this year is an early prototype. Everything that I've read states it at least two years away from consumer release. It's expected that we'll be seeing 2nd gen HMDs from both HTC and Oculus by then.

*Not actually an open API despite what the name suggests
 
Valve doesn't currently make VR hardware, but they very well could. Controllers are a lot easier than a full system. The new lighthouses will probably be made by HTC, and the wireless company they've invested in is Nitero. Not to diminish their contributions in design and manufacturing, but making an analogy to phones; HTC is more like Foxconn to Apple than Samsung to Android.

There are already licensees of steamvr tech, as sessions of their $3000 steamvr training class have been completed. The licensees have not yet released products though since those classes started like 2 months ago

I haven't read anything that indicates 2+ years for those prototype controllers to come to market. It would be crazy for them to be "behind" Oculus Touch for that long. The tracking functionality is done and control functionality is mostly there (capacitive grip detection works but they may add individual finger tracking). Ergonomics isn't going to take 2+ years. I would be shocked if they weren't out by July of next year, and I would not be shocked if they were made in the factory that makes steam controllers.
 
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TheSmJ said:
Very happy. So far Oculus has the most "Complete" games in the VR space vs what's available for Vive - never mind the fact that the Rift can play Vive games as well.

I've played The Unspoken at Best Buy a couple weeks ago. It's one of the games that's set to be released for free with Touch preorders along with Dead and Buried. I'm very much looking forward to playing it at home.
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I'm shocked by this post....I believe you...but I'm surprised there isn't more of a vocal group of Rift supports here...I mean look how active the Vive thread is.
 
harsaphes said:
I'm shocked by this post....I believe you...but I'm surprised there isn't more of a vocal group of Rift supports here...I mean look how active the Vive thread is.
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Facebook has dumped hundreds of millions into VR software development, so they're going to have some good games to show for it.

A lot of people dislike oculus for selling out to facebook. or dislike their policy on exclusives and not supporting vive in their store, or dislike Palmer Luckey for his many non-truths about the direction of oculus, or dislike Palmer Luckey for his alt-right ties and racist girlfriend..

I personally don't care about which company I support. I bought a vive because the preorder wait was shorter and it had motion controls from day 1.
 
Have both, both are good, but I'd say the Rift's controllers will be a bit better overall, plus with the Rift you'll have a larger selection of games to pick from.

Just got this email:
--------------------------------

Your Order Is Shipping Soon
We’ll be shipping Oculus Touch very soon! Please take a moment to check that we have your correct information on file.
In the confirmation email you received when placing your order, or on your order history page, please review the following:
  • Do we have your correct billing and shipping information?
  • Is your payment information accurate?
If either of these items need to be updated, please log-in to your Oculus account to supply the correct information on your order. Have questions or need to cancel your order before it ships? Feel free to reach out to Oculus Support at https://support.oculus.com.
Thank you for being part of the Oculus community!
Remember, Oculus Touch is an Rift accessory only.
Rift headset required and sold separately.
-------------------------------------

Woot! Not long to go now!
 
Not seeing a lot of controllers out just yet....

Order Status
Pre-order
Congratulations: your prior Rift preorder qualifies you to have a preferred place-in-line for your Touch preorder!
Estimated shipping: Dec 06 - Dec 15
Tracking Numbers
(TBA when your order ships)
 
More confused after reading my own thread about what to buy. To me it seems the sets at this point are almost exactly the same and that those who posted here love their rift, but I continually see more posts on HARD about the Vive, in fact the first page on this forum hardly mentions it. Hmm.
 
Ok, off the top of my head since I own both:

Rift Pros:
Easier to put on/take off
High quality built-in sound via integrated headphones
Better focused across the entire field of view
Lighter / slightly more comfortable to wear
Cable is lighter/integrated all in one
Camera is easy to setup
Better quality, full blown games availability then the Vive for now
If you buy the Touch controllers, they seem better designed than the Vive wands for VR

Rift Cons:
Touch controllers are a separate purchase - without them it isn't a complete VR solution and limited to seated/standing use.
Slightly smaller FOV (Field of view) than the Vive - but less screen door effect as a plus because of this
Doesn't do room scale unless you buy the Touch controllers with the second camera and even then, the Vive does it better.

Vive Pros:
Complete VR solution - no separate controllers to purchase
Does roomscale well
Larger back catalog of demos and early access games
Not affiliated with Facebook

Vive Cons:
Headset is slightly awkward to put on / take off
Headset is a bit heavier / less comfortable to wear
No built-in headphones - comes with crappy earbuds
Image is blurry in periphery, smaller central sweet spot which is focused
Takes longer to properly install/setup and configure lighthouses
Not as many big titles / complete games


Bottom line: Without the Touch controllers, the Vive is the better choice. With Touch controllers, I'd lean towards the Rift as being a slightly better VR overall product. But, you really can't go wrong with either.
 
Vive has a new cable now, similar to the rift's. I'm not sure if you're guaranteed to get the new one when you buy a vive but you can definitely get it from the accessories page.

I got one and it's a fairly nice upgrade from the original one.
 
TheSmJ said:
... never mind the fact that the Rift can play Vive games as well.
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Can the Rift actually play everything the VIve does or select list? I see there is revive, a tool to use the Viva with the Oculus dreamdeck and Oculus exclusives, but can be buggy. Didnt know Oculus can play Vive games. I love The Blu demo for the vive.
That can influence my choice as I do want hand controllers. I did like Vive wands actually. Hope they have the demo of the Touch controllers soon as I plan to demo both again mid December.
 
SteamVR supports oculus, so the default behavior is that any game using SteamVR should automatically support rift/touch.

Developers are free to actively block rift, but I think the only instance of that so far is Google Earth VR. That was quickly defeated by several people though.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
Ok, off the top of my head since I own both:

Rift Pros:
Easier to put on/take off
High quality built-in sound via integrated headphones
Better focused across the entire field of view
Lighter / slightly more comfortable to wear
Cable is lighter/integrated all in one
Camera is easy to setup
Better quality, full blown games availability then the Vive for now
If you buy the Touch controllers, they seem better designed than the Vive wands for VR

Rift Cons:
Touch controllers are a separate purchase - without them it isn't a complete VR solution and limited to seated/standing use.
Slightly smaller FOV (Field of view) than the Vive - but less screen door effect as a plus because of this
Doesn't do room scale unless you buy the Touch controllers with the second camera and even then, the Vive does it better.

Vive Pros:
Complete VR solution - no separate controllers to purchase
Does roomscale well
Larger back catalog of demos and early access games
Not affiliated with Facebook

Vive Cons:
Headset is slightly awkward to put on / take off
Headset is a bit heavier / less comfortable to wear
No built-in headphones - comes with crappy earbuds
Image is blurry in periphery, smaller central sweet spot which is focused
Takes longer to properly install/setup and configure lighthouses
Not as many big titles / complete games


Bottom line: Without the Touch controllers, the Vive is the better choice. With Touch controllers, I'd lean towards the Rift as being a slightly better VR overall product. But, you really can't go wrong with either.
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Awesome summary. Very helpful. I was almost moving back to the Rift knowing Touch is available, but then....I was going through each one, and two things against the Rift came up.

1. The sensors on the rift seem like they would have to be connected to each other....no wireless syncing.
2. The number of USB ports required. With Vive, I am counting 1. With the Rift, I am getting 3 or 4; HMD, Sensor, XBOX Controller. What about the remote or other sensors for room scale?
 
aliaskary77 said:
Awesome summary. Very helpful. I was almost moving back to the Rift knowing Touch is available, but then....I was going through each one, and two things against the Rift came up.

1. The sensors on the rift seem like they would have to be connected to each other....no wireless syncing.
2. The number of USB ports required. With Vive, I am counting 1. With the Rift, I am getting 3 or 4; HMD, Sensor, XBOX Controller. What about the remote or other sensors for room scale?
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Interested in this information also.
 
Each rift camera is connected to the Pc. For roomscale it's hmd + 2 or 3 cameras, 3-4 USB ports.
 
...and the touch controllers? cant seem to find if they have a receiver that needs a USB port. Granted many machines now have 8 to 10 USB ports, but USB 3 is usually limited to 4.
more than that, I cant imagine having wires running everywhere. I don't have a dedicated room, so wife approval factor is critical lol.
 
aliaskary77 said:
...and the touch controllers? cant seem to find if they have a receiver that needs a USB port. Granted many machines now have 8 to 10 USB ports, but USB 3 is usually limited to 4.
more than that, I cant imagine having wires running everywhere. I don't have a dedicated room, so wife approval factor is critical lol.
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Touch controllers will have built-in batteries that power them and then they are tracked by the IR array on the rings on them. Not sure if they've mentioned how controls will be handled. I could see them utilizing the cameras and specific IR emitters for control input (ie a button press triggers a specific array or blink pattern that is picked up by the camera) but I haven't heard how they'll handle it....probably a wireless dongle. Though keep in mind, if you have Touch controllers, you probably won't have the Xbox controller plugged in. The wireless remote does not require a dongle....and now that I think about it, it's signal is picked up by the HMD so that's probably how the Touch controllers will work on button presses.
 
Yeah, the touch controllers will talk wirelessly to the headset. Same as Vive
 
Looks like mine are on the move.

Hi Kyle,

Your order has been processed! Look for a shipping confirmation email with tracking information soon.
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pj- said:
Vive has a new cable now, similar to the rift's. I'm not sure if you're guaranteed to get the new one when you buy a vive but you can definitely get it from the accessories page.

I got one and it's a fairly nice upgrade from the original one.
Click to expand...

I bought the new cable too as the old cable bunching up was probably my number 1 complaint about the Vive. I'd already invested enough in VR, I figured 40 bucks for a better cable was money well spent and it definitely has less issues.
 
harsaphes said:
Haven't bought yet...waiting for the reviews here.
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I think if you already have the Rift, it's a safe bet to get the Touch controllers.

I doubt there are a lot of people (other than review sites like Kyle) that are buying both headsets, so if you already have a Vive, I don't see many people also getting a Rift because of the Touch controllers.

If you don't have either...there are a ton of reviews out there (even before Touch was widely available) comparing the two.
 
MavericK said:
I think if you already have the Rift, it's a safe bet to get the Touch controllers.

I doubt there are a lot of people (other than review sites like Kyle) that are buying both headsets, so if you already have a Vive, I don't see many people also getting a Rift because of the Touch controllers.

If you don't have either...there are a ton of reviews out there (even before Touch was widely available) comparing the two.
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Maybe so but how about room scale between the two? Comfort moving around? In addition to add on's that you can get to enhance the experience plus who supports more games or better games?

Any word on when the next generation is expected to be out?
 
noko said:
Maybe so but how about room scale between the two? Comfort moving around? In addition to add on's that you can get to enhance the experience plus who supports more games or better games?
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Room scale is smaller on the Rift. "Comfort" I'm guessing is about the same, though I hear the Rift headset cable is quite a bit shorter than the Vive. I think SteamVR has more games currently but many should work on both, and Oculus has their walled garden bullshit so there are going to be some exclusives there (not sure about if eventually Vive will get them, but there is always ReVive).

noko said:
Any word on when the next generation is expected to be out?
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Not any time soon according to HTC. Not sure about Rift.
 
Roomscale is definitely "bigger" and more reliable as to tracking over the entire space with the default Vive setup vs the default Rift + Touch setup. I have an extra Rift camera on order to see if it improves things, which I believe it will. With the Touch's extra camera, I'd rate the Rift's room scale experience inferior to that of the Vive, but only for really large roomscale settings and for games that require lots of 360's. The Rift does great so long as your are forward facing and have the recommended parallel facing camera setup though. If you face away from the cameras with the Rift, tracking can suffer. I think the 3rd camera will clear that up, hence I ordered one. To be honest though, most games are fine and don't require you to go spinning in circles. Where and how you mount the Rift cameras seems to be a big factor as well in ensuring good tracking. The Vive's opposite room corner setup does a great job of covering the entire play space. With the Rift, it seems there are several configuration options - especially with the 3rd camera in the mix. I definitely like the Touch controllers better than the Vive wands/sticks though.
 
Supercharged_Z06 said:
The Vive's opposite room corner setup does a great job of covering the entire play space. With the Rift, it seems there are several configuration options - especially with the 3rd camera in the mix. I definitely like the Touch controllers better than the Vive wands/sticks though.
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Based on what I've read on Reddit, many users who are using an opposite-corner approach to the Rift cameras are reporting a great experience and aren't have any tracking issues in room scale games and don't plan on buying another camera. Those with larger play spaces (seems like 9x9' or more) have reported perfect tracking after adding a third. Mounting the sensors as high as you can (7' or more above the floor) and angling them downward, similar to what you would do with the Vive's lighthouses gets you the best results.
 
Got my Rift controllers yesterday, haven't had a chance to try them. My company is using both Rift and Vive for product demo. We were liking FOV on Rift but touch controls on Vive so I am very interested if the addition of controllers will push Rift ahead of Vive for our purposes
 
My extra two cameras should arrive today. My experience with Every Optical Tracking System Ever Produced (OK, hyperbole, but go try finding someone operating an optical mocap system who will tell you "if only I had less cameras/emitters my system would work so much better!") is: the optimum number of tracking cameras/basestations is whatever the system max is, or whatever you can afford, whichever is higher. Constellation, Lightohuse, Vicon, Optitrack, Phasespace, whatever.
Currently, the system maximum for Constellation is 4 cameras (one of which must be USB3, the others can be USB2). For lighthouse, the system max is 2 basestations for the Vive and controllers.
Expanding Constellation to more cameras is a software issue, limited only by USB bandwidth. Mitigating this would require limiting bandwidth, which can be done the same way the Wiimote did for its camera: threshold and centroid-find on-board, then just stream the centroid coords back to the host.
Expanding Lighthouse to more basestations cannot be done without new HMD & controller hardware (confirmed by Alan Yates), and the maximum number of basestations is limited by maximum rotor speed (due to exclusive TDM operation). This limit can be relaxed by using FDM to allow multiple lasers in flight, but this requires a new sensor architecture to allow for frequency discrimination (basically you need multiple photosensors per 'sensor' with different narrow band-pass nIR filters). AFAIK, no scanning laser based position tracking system (e.g. Arcsecond/Nikon's iGPS) has demonstrated FDM in operation. Another option by be using chirped scans with keyed diffraction gratings and correlating sensors, but this imposes much harsher timing issues, and you are impacted by off-axis sensor anisotropy and much more vulnerable to partial occlusion and reflections than Lighthouse already is.
 
I was pleasantly surprised that I did not need an extra USB 3 port for the Touch controllers. The second sensor went into the port the x box game controller occupied. Kyle, have you tried Super Hot yet?

Quick update. The Touch controllers are very sturdy. I've slammed them now into a lamp, a desk and a few monitors before I set up the boundary. Not a scratch. The round shape nicely bounces of objects. Played thru Super Hot and am replaying it without guns. Nice little workout. Can't wait for a boxing simulator.
 
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Got my Touch controllers last night and played around with them for a couple hours. (I have a pinched nerve in one arm or would have done more) Tracking is great, love the button placement vs. the Vive controllers and presence detect for the thumb and index finger is nice.

Need to try moving the sensors around some to see how large of an area I can get it to cover. Also have not tried to used it under Steam VR. If I can get it working in SteamVR and area close to the Vive area I'll likely get rid of the Vive as I like the headset and controller ergonomics better on the Oculus.
 
I believe the Rift has the slight advantage when comparing controllers, but the Vive still rules Roomscale. Also the Vive is open to 3rd party controllers so we could see some instesting developements shortly. Competition is good for us consumers.

http://uploadvr.com/vive-vs-oculus-rift-touch-roomscale/
Ultimately, if you’re looking for the better roomscale VR experience, then the HTC Vive is still the way to go. Setting aside the content questions (the Rift enables both Oculus Home and Steam VR games and applications, the Vive is limited to just Steam without a hack) and just focusing on the roomscale capabilities renders a clear edge to the HTC Vive, even after the Touch controllers are out and you purchase an extra sensor on top of that. For Vive, you get it all for $799. For Rift, you need the headset ($599), the Touch controllers and second sensor ($199) and a third sensor ($80). That comes out to approximately $100 more for a comparable, but still slightly inferior, roomscale experience.

The frustrating cord length, abundance of USB ports and extra cables, added price tag for a third sensor, and finicky tracking precision all add up to the Oculus Rift still not quite measuring up to the relative ease and simplicity of roomscale VR through the HTC Vive. It’s also worth noting that the entire prospect of roomscale VR was something that HTC coined with the creation of the Vive and for a piece of technology that wasn’t and still isn’t primarily designed to offer such an experience, the Rift is more than capable.
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Putting a new build together over the holidays and then will have to make a decision.
 
I'm in the same boat. demoed both again but one didn't go smoothly...hdmi issues for the rift demo setup. might have to try both again.
was hoping to see what kyle had to say by now, but almost leaning towards waiting till next summer/fall.
 
Room scale would be nice, IF I had an empty room in the house.
I would have to move the rift and computer in the living room if I wanted lots of space. The 5ft area in my room works fine.
 
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