RIAA Says Personal Copies Are “Unauthorized”

soulfoot

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
89
so, I cant copy the cd onto a different medium ie hard drive, ipod, etc

I cant broadcast the cd to the public

I cant download the song and copy it to a different medium

so, i'm breaking the law if i do anything other than listen to my cd on my cd player with my headphones.

heck i dont even own a cd player unless you count my pc and the one in my car.

I wonder.. is it illegal to copy a song off of the radio, if so Sattelite radio companies like XM and Sirius are selling products that allow us to break the law even further

lets all go to jail.
 
R

ring.of.steel

Guest
so, I cant copy the cd onto a different medium ie hard drive, ipod, etc

I cant broadcast the cd to the public

I cant download the song and copy it to a different medium

so, i'm breaking the law if i do anything other than listen to my cd on my cd player with my headphones.

heck i dont even own a cd player unless you count my pc and the one in my car.

I wonder.. is it illegal to copy a song off of the radio, if so Sattelite radio companies like XM and Sirius are selling products that allow us to break the law even further

lets all go to jail.

I dont think its quite that extreme :p.
 

MartinX

One Hour Martinizing While You Wait
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
7,187
If I play the CD, and remember the music and lyrics, is the copy in my neurons illegal too?
 

himmy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
1,794
I think poeple need to actually read what the RIAA said.

They said ripped to mp3 and placed in his shared folder.

There is the key, AND placed in his shared folder.

It isn't converting to mp3, putting it on your computer, etc. It is doing it AND putting it into your shared folder for a p2p program.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
13
They're actually completely within the limits of the law to asser that. Buying a CD does not grant you a license (implicit or otherwise) to make a copy of a CD.

Similarly, every Tivo and other DVR device also infringes copyrights.

It may be ridiculous, but that's the law. Read the copyright act. There's no "first sale" doctrine on the content, just the physical object itself.

For example: buy a book; you can re-sell the book to a friend. You can't make a photocopy of the book to replace the book. The idea is that you're buying the CD to listen to the music in the CD player. If you want the songs in another medium, you pay for another medium. Of course, no one does that, but that's the way the law recognizes copyright, and that's the way the studios want it, obviously.

Fair use covers things like research and criticism, not "personal use." There's never been any "fair use" for any remotely personal use aside from the Betamax case, which many agree was wrongly decided for many reasons, and has a very thoughtful dissent by Justice Blackmun.
 

markt435

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
7,592

not exactly funny. the bands and artists get way more money from touring than they can ever hope to get from selling CDs. if you wanna support an artist directly, go see them in concert and pay the $50 for a ticket. whats even cooler is some bands now burn cds of the concerts you go to and you can pick up a copy on your way out the door. soooo totally worth it. not to mention getting merch helps them directly as well.
 

Sunin

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2008
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
3,421
Bring it on RIAA I'll make sure I walk away with a good million of your dollars! I buy the media and songs... if I want to listen to them on my computer or Ipod I should be able to. I should not have to pay for a single song 3 times... sorry go F yourself!
 

ICOM

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
2,194
I just stopped buying CD's altogether.

Winner!

Today's music (and the last 6 or so years) is simply terrible. Independent stuff is the only place to go. Listen to the Black Angels. :cool:

Oh yeah! The RIAA has feces for brains.
 

kumquat

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
5,269
I actually went and read the brief from the RIAA (21 pages), and I can *not* find where they claim that merely making a copy of a CD onto your hard drive constitutes infringement. Their claim is that, if you copy a CD to a P-2-P "shared" folder, then that constitutes infringement. It isn't the act of making a copy that they object to, but the act of making a copy that is then freely available to download. The entire thrust of their argument is that putting a copy of their stuff in your shared folder is, by definition, distribution of content (which is arguable, but does have some legal backing).

I *do not* like the RIAA for the stuff they pull, but the claim they are making is much less drastic that what the story makes it appear.

I haven't searched this "instance" but here's a quote from October:

"When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," [Sony BMG head of litigation Jennifer Praiser] said.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...lawyer-copying-music-you-own-is-stealing.html
 

supergrover

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
169
In Canada we pay a tax on every blank CD/Media to cover the cost to the music industry for piracy (whether music is on the media or not...:rolleyes: ). The courts here decided long ago that downloading is legal here, but sharing or uploading is illegal...similar to this case it seems.

However, a few politicians up here are trying to get copying to any media made illegal and they are now talking about it. I don't think anyone is safe from RIAA pocketbooks..
 

PurduEE

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 9, 2000
Messages
1,788
I actually went and read the brief from the RIAA (21 pages), and I can *not* find where they claim that merely making a copy of a CD onto your hard drive constitutes infringement. Their claim is that, if you copy a CD to a P-2-P "shared" folder, then that constitutes infringement. It isn't the act of making a copy that they object to, but the act of making a copy that is then freely available to download. The entire thrust of their argument is that putting a copy of their stuff in your shared folder is, by definition, distribution of content (which is arguable, but does have some legal backing).

I *do not* like the RIAA for the stuff they pull, but the claim they are making is much less drastic that what the story makes it appear.

Agreed, on both counts.

Everyone is misquoting the statement in the brief. The statement is:

Once Defendant converted Plaintiffs’ recording into the compressed .mp3 format and they are in his shared folder, they are no longer the authorized copies distributed by Plaintiffs.
(emphasis added)

The statement is A+B=C. It does not mean that A=C - converting recordings into compressed format results in unauthorized copies. Moreover, this is a brief. You argue all kinds of things in a brief that may or may not have a basis in reality.

The biggest thing that will screw this defendant is the spoliation of evidence (deleting his hard drive when asked to maintain it). The finder of fact (judge or jury) will likely just interpret his destruction of evidence as destruction of damaging evidence. He'd have been better off leaving it on his hard drive.

I'm no fan of the RIAA, but it's important to get the facts straight before going crazy about this. I would like to believe that I would fight this kind of a suit were I the plaintiff, but average billing rates for an attorney with a chance of winning are probably $300-$400 per hour. Win or lose, you are facing financial ruin if you are not willing to settle out. Sucks, but it is the truth.
 

Tim Wardlaw

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 13, 2002
Messages
360
Soon enough you will be buying ITune cards with "20 more plays" on them.

"Damn, I really wanted to listen to that again, guess I will need to buy another license to listen card":D
 

Farva

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
38,155
You are not going to believe this one. The RIAA claims that copying your legally purchased CD to your PC is an infringement. Huh?!?! I am quite literally astounded that there hasn’t been a national uprising against these guys by now...or at the very least, a nationwide music boycott to send a message loud and clear that we are not giving up our rights to fair use.

This is precisely why I have boycotted music for many years now (besides all the crap out there).
 

MurphysLaww

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
182
It's ok, it's the last gasp of a group that will be inconsequential soon. The labels know their time is limited, and that artists will be releasing their music on their own soon, with no need for a label.
 

Hurdler

Gawd
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
986
Yeah maybe but it is nowhere near as bad as the situation you have over there.

Oh really? Isn't it across the pond that there's a lawsuit over a radio being played to loud?

Similarly, every Tivo and other DVR device also infringes copyrights.

No, they don't. If they did, do you think they could actually be sold? This crap was dealt with when the VCR came out. If you record it in your own home, you can watch it in your own home. Granted you can't show it to a crowd, but the fact remains. This is why no one has gotten in trouble for downloading TV shows. If you download the DVD of the TV show, then that's a problem, but not individual episodes.


If the recent posts are right, and it says that you can't make a copy and put it in a P2P shared folder, then this may be a great example of media blowing something out of proportion. I'm not blaming the [H] though, they're not the ones who wrote the article.
 

matrix563

Fully [H]
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
19,144
Soon enough you will be buying ITune cards with "20 more plays" on them.
"Damn, I really wanted to listen to that again, guess I will need to buy another license to listen card":D


why i've always said, "Free song my (___][___).."
 

mustang_steve

c[H]ewbacca
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Messages
10,891
I learned it's best to just ignore them, and buy music from those who haven't lined the pockets of these troglodytes.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
578
You can blame the stupid old white men in mainstream media that dont care about this enough to write a story. They probably dont even know what mp3's are, so why would they think this is a big deal?
 

Ardrid

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
153
This is when I wish I had 5-10 years of legal practice under my belt instead of just starting out. I would love to be able to help some of the defendants in cases like this and smash the hell out of the RIAA's argument, which is completely baseless as all of you have already stated. Apple needs to write a nice amicus curiae brief (or better yet help the defendant since he's pro se at the moment) since the RIAA is in effect calling every last one of Apple's customers, and by extension Apple itself, criminals. God, I hate these bastards.
 

Ardrid

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
153
They're actually completely within the limits of the law to asser that. Buying a CD does not grant you a license (implicit or otherwise) to make a copy of a CD.

Similarly, every Tivo and other DVR device also infringes copyrights.

It may be ridiculous, but that's the law. Read the copyright act. There's no "first sale" doctrine on the content, just the physical object itself.

For example: buy a book; you can re-sell the book to a friend. You can't make a photocopy of the book to replace the book. The idea is that you're buying the CD to listen to the music in the CD player. If you want the songs in another medium, you pay for another medium. Of course, no one does that, but that's the way the law recognizes copyright, and that's the way the studios want it, obviously.

Fair use covers things like research and criticism, not "personal use." There's never been any "fair use" for any remotely personal use aside from the Betamax case, which many agree was wrongly decided for many reasons, and has a very thoughtful dissent by Justice Blackmun.

No. The ability to create personal backups/copies are strictly the province of fair use per the Copyright Act and the DMCA. Moreover, I think the staple article doctrine, utilized in Betamax, might have something to say about your argument. Fair use extends beyond mere research and criticism, hence the reason the courts utilize a 4-part test. Like it or not, Sony v. Universal is valid law and legally binding precedent. The RIAA is completely wrong, as is your argument regarding TiVo and DVRs.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
20,958
Funny because the CANADIAN government says otherwise, so go fuck your selves RIAA!!


problem is no one has the balls, well, cash, to try and go against the RIAA, I think an association should be formed for those against the RIAA

PWBARIAA

People With Balls Against the RIAA
 

TTjd

n00b
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
9
It's almost sad. To think that you pay $17 or more for an album that 3 years later will be 5 bucks. how about giving the consumer something for listening to some of the $%#@ they pawn off as MUSIC. Next will be time codes so you can only listen to the songs at certain times of the day or how about that great idea that Sony had to make game discs only playable on one PS3(yeah theyve since dropped that dumb arse idea) so you can only listen to the CD on one player. No more borrowing the CD, if you do, lets say, the disc goes up in flames and a wireless signal is sent to RIAA that some one other than the CD's owner is trying to use it.
Why dont they spend their money on makeing better music and music people are willing to pay for? Oh and I'm sure out of the millions of dollars one album makes, they companies can afford to take a little loss. Second when are they gonna produce albums that are worth spending 20 bucks on. Thought music was about the music not about the money.
 

jwp27577

Weaksauce
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
77
Since the brain is basically a form of electrical media does that mean remembering the song is also illegal (of course I actually wish I could erase from my mind the crap the industry has been pushing on us the last few years).

Anyway, in a few years everyone will be saying "RIAA, what is that?" All of this is just a last gasp of a dying industry.

Today bands can make a home recording stuido for next to nothing. They can sell their songs on the Internet and it costs next to nothing. And even if only 1% of downloaders actually pay for the songs, they still make more than they would through a label.

The RIAA just wants the average joe to be so scared of downloading anything that they stay away from the legit downloads that will lead to the collapse of the current label system. That is really what all of this is about.
 

Farva

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
38,155
Just remember, "Happy birthday" is copyrighted. So don't forget to pay the RIAA when you sing it at the next birthday party you are at. ;)
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
3,954
If I play the CD, and remember the music and lyrics, is the copy in my neurons illegal too?


Soon,very soon !



It's ok, it's the last gasp of a group that will be inconsequential soon. The labels know their time is limited, and that artists will be releasing their music on their own soon, with no need for a label.


There will always be a need for big labels.
 

theDreamer

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
2,513
So...if I buy a CD then what exactly am I paying X price for if I can not do what I want with the music? I basically just bought a used CD which I can not write anything to, can not take the contents off because it is "illegal?"
 

repoman0

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
1,266
This is precisely why I have boycotted music for many years now (besides all the crap out there).

Way to let the RIAA screw you out of buying ALL music, even that which doesn't support them at all :rolleyes: It's stupid to just stop buying music even if the label isn't affiliated with the RIAA - that's like boycotting all computers because you don't like Intel's business practices.
 

kumquat

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
5,269
So...if I buy a CD then what exactly am I paying X price for if I can not do what I want with the music? I basically just bought a used CD which I can not write anything to, can not take the contents off because it is "illegal?"

If the record companies have their way, you are paying for the right to listen - by yourself - to the CD via a CD player. That's where your rights end.
 

jstnomega

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Messages
1,706
Face it: cracking a game or ripping a music CD is more satisfying than even pr0n. :)
 

NeghVar

2[H]4U
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
2,643
via a few links through riaaradar and then to riaa's site. I saw the list of their board of directors

Anyone know of a good hit man or assassin
 

NeghVar

2[H]4U
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
2,643
If the record companies have their way, you are paying for the right to listen - by yourself - to the CD via a CD player. That's where your rights end.

correction. You'd be paying for every time you listen to each song
 

SamuraiInBlack

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 10, 2003
Messages
5,772
I don't see the point in buying music anymore. None of the bands out there really perform well enough to make a full CD, start to finish, that sounds good across every song. Very few bands do and those few I will support by buying their CDs. But outside of that, heh, fuck everyone else. I hear these bands that get my CD money being very capable at putting out music that kicks ass from start to finish. Why can't the rest?

Music is not what we have today anymore on our shelves. What we have today is a giant selection of overpriced garbage with little to no option to pick and mix, or grab the good parts and leave the rest of the shit on the shelf where it belongs. We've allowed artists who lack originality to essentially become tribute bands/singers putting out cover after cover of previously recorded songs. And then to top that off we have these other ones who can't sing for crap, to be hoisted up for their 'talents' (aka their looks and near pornographic sexual appeal) and we applaud them in their medicore performances and their less than stellar range of music. To be honest, I think the last time real music was being played anymore, was when MTV was still about music.
 
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