Rev's innovation alone may not guarantee success.

C

cb9fl

Limp Gawd
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http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=6263

Undoubtedly the controller is novel, and should work brilliantly for certain games types, offers Frontier's Braben. But there will be some resistance, particularly with established styles of games, for which new mechanisms will need to be found. There is also a potential downside - assuming it is a huge success, it could be a pyrrhic victory; I am not convinced that others - third or first parties - can't offer similar styles of controller for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, eroding the Revolution's advantage.
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I am all for the Revolution, but your title is pretty much self explanatory, and has been the case all along, as with ANYTHING that will ever come out.
 
Yup, like if there is at least no support for 16:9 widescreen in their games, it's gonna put a hurting on demand for it as well. I couldn't care less about it not having support for high definition resolutions, but 16:9 should be standard considering that tv's with this aspect ratio are the future.
 
In order for any game console to succeed it has to have one thing, good content.

The thing can wipe your ass and bring you coffee, but if the games aren't enthralling and an immersive enjoyable experience, it ain't gonna float.

Jaguar/Neo Geo anyone?
 
Also, notice how when people on these very forums don't like a new 360 game they say it's not "next-gen." At least nobody will be able to say that about the rev :p
 
BREAKING NEWS: XBox 360's 2 million sold may not guarantee its success in the face of the PS3 and Revolution!!!! :rolleyes:
 
What does a sales fact have to do with the Rev's conjecture?
 
steviep said:
BREAKING NEWS: XBox 360's 2 million sold may not guarantee its success in the face of the PS3 and Revolution!!!! :rolleyes:
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lol...whenever Halo 3 comes out you'll prolly be eating those words. there are good games for xbox, of course, but the halo franchise carrys the xbox on its back. almost like how the nintendo first party games carry the gamecube on their backs. you can't deny that cuz you know its true. most gamecube owners have more 1st party titles than 3rd...and then when you go to xbox...EVERYONE has at least one of the halo games and its prolly gonna be the game that they play 90% of the time. hopefully there will be that one game for rev or ps3 that will make it sell. otherwise their both gonna eat it. the 360 got such an early start and its gonna have a strong foothold to break.
 
Um... it was sarcasm. Sarcasm intended to bring out the inanity of the OP's post. Of course Halo will sell XBoxes and there will be more than "one game" for the Rev and PS3 that will sell them too, so you can stop "hoping" - nobody will be eating anything. :rolleyes:

CB9FL, a sales quote has nothing to do with anything. Just in the same way that an analyst's negative quote from a mostly positive article has nothing to do with anything either. You did chose the proper word to describe all of this, though: conjecture.

If you want to read an actual article, with some content behind it, try this one...
Excerpt:
The controller is a defining characteristic of the system, and for good reason. Granted, there are other defining traits of the system such as its physical design, approach to online gaming, even Nintendo's marketing strategy for the machine. However, this is ultimately a games console, and software sells hardware. It's the games that provide an identity. The Revolution's controller provides a unique appeal by itself in some sense, but in reality, it is lending a unique appeal to games. Honestly, the controller itself isn't very important; it's what the device can do in tandem with game play mechanics that makes it a noteworthy contraption.

Looking forward at the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, the situation remains mostly unchanged. The two systems share just as many similarities as their predecessors, if not more. Microsoft and Sony will remain cut-throat until the opposing side admits defeat or, in the very unlikely scenario, forced to co-operate to take down a larger threat. In regard to games, many publishers will be assigning developers the task of creating their games to run on two systems. Exclusive titles are assumed to be present, but given their atrociously expensive nature, will most likely be few and far between. Titles like Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Grand Theft Auto, and Dragon Quest, which once had enough exclusive appeal to give their home system a powerful identity, will make multiple debuts on multiple platforms in the next generation. If I speculate for a moment, from the consumer's point of view the thought may be, "why have both of these expensive systems on the market? They possess a lot of the same functionality, they have mostly the same games, the games play the same on either one for the most part, and they cost roughly the same. What's the difference?"

The difference is the whole point. If you lose your unique edge in this industry, the possibilities for problems start rising. Revolution, regardless of anything it might be lacking, sits in a seemingly comfortable position.
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Rich Tate said:
In order for any game console to succeed it has to have one thing, good content.

The thing can wipe your ass and bring you coffee, but if the games aren't enthralling and an immersive enjoyable experience, it ain't gonna float.

Jaguar/Neo Geo anyone?
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The Dreamcast had content...I don't see it on store shelves anymore ;)
 
Super Smash Brothers: Revolution is enough reason for me to buy the rev, as it was enough reason for me to buy a gamecube.
 
K600 said:
The Dreamcast had content...I don't see it on store shelves anymore ;)
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Marketing wasn't there which was Segas mistake. If the marketing was there, I'd still be buying games for it.
 
markt435 said:
Marketing wasn't there which was Segas mistake. If the marketing was there, I'd still be buying games for it.
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This is something that comes up on a monthly basis around here: why did the Dreamcast fail? Pick a few reasons: no support from EA, the coming PS2, the craptacular controllers, etc etc.
 
Sure it comes up all the time. But I think we all know one of the biggest reasons (if not THE biggest reason) is that Sega didn't market it well at all.
 
markt435 said:
Sure it comes up all the time. But I think we all know one of the biggest reasons (if not THE biggest reason) is that Sega didn't market it well at all.
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I remember seeing a lot of commercials for the dreamcast, but I don't think I've ever seen an xbox or 360 commercial.
 
Jason711 said:
there are ads for 360 games.. which advertise the 360
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Ah. Well, the fact that I only have basic basic cable (networks + community access) might have something to do with it :D
 
Slartibartfast said:
I remember seeing a lot of commercials for the dreamcast, but I don't think I've ever seen an xbox or 360 commercial.
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Honestly, I havn't seen a single Xbox360 commercial yet either. The only related one i've seen to date, is the Xbox360 version of Call of Duty 2 which aired a while ago on Fox
 
Slartibartfast said:
I remember seeing a lot of commercials for the dreamcast, but I don't think I've ever seen an xbox or 360 commercial.
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Sega advertised heavily before the Dreamcast was released to build momentum. The problem, Sega didn't advertise enough to 3rd party developers (console makers bread and butter is licensing games to be played on their systems). After the Dreamcast was released, Sega was going into a downward spiral management wise. They didn't have a clear vision of what their company wanted to be (Dreamcast only developer or 3rd party developer for everyone else).
 
So yah... the Revolution.

Excerpt said:
Pachter predicted that households today that own both a PS2 and an Xbox will be more likely to own either an Xbox 360 or a PlayStation 3 and a Nintendo Revolution
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I would have had the GameCube in my household too (I mean, it's cheap as hell and has great games) but the missus told me "I was at my limit". If I could afford a Xbox 360 or a PS3, I could definitely afford a Rev if their goal is a good price point like the GameCube was.
 
chojin_1999 said:
I would have had the GameCube in my household too (I mean, it's cheap as hell and has great games) but the missus told me "I was at my limit". If I could afford a Xbox 360 or a PS3, I could definitely afford a Rev if their goal is a good price point like the GameCube was.
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You can sneak the GC in, esp. if she never pays attention to your current consoles :D
 
Jaguar/Neo Geo
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Neo Geo had content, just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive, but it was awsome stuff ;)

jaguar completely lied about their console, 2x32bit processors does not = 64 bit, not to mention programming for dual cpu set ups was extremely limited back then, so i can see where that failed off the bat ... what did it have 3 games in total? totally in house produced?
 
Trimlock said:
Neo Geo had content, just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive, but it was awsome stuff ;)

jaguar completely lied about their console, 2x32bit processors does not = 64 bit, not to mention programming for dual cpu set ups was extremely limited back then, so i can see where that failed off the bat ... what did it have 3 games in total? totally in house produced?
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I'm not saying Neo-Geo sucked, but all it had were fighting and arcade games. Jaguar just had... well it had practically nothing...
 
Neo-Geo was straight ported arcade games, thats what was so apealing for them
 
Trimlock said:
Neo-Geo was straight ported arcade games, thats what was so apealing for them
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Not quite - NeoGeo and SNK arcade games ran on the exact same hardware (not ports). The cartridges were almost identical, but they were made differently so that you couldn't play arcade carts in the home system, and vice-versa. This is why a lot of SNK arcade cabinets had multiple games in them - they could have up to four (I think) cartridges in at a time.
 
i guess saying port was the wrong word for it, probably too used to saying it with all the current ports from console to pc
 
Erm... Revolution? :p

Excerpt said:
Sure, there are the kid games. THQ and Midway have them and, frankly, I expected more. But to my surprise, some third parties have really stepped up. Ubisoft's mysterious first-person shooter. Activision with a rumored version of Call of Duty that takes full advantage of the Revmote. Midway with a few "grown up" efforts of its own. And smaller studios like Atlus with Trauma Center. This is to say nothing of SEGA's sweet stuff or Capcom's sweet stuff. There's potential here. Lots. Oh, we know of a couple dozen titles in development, but we don't know anything about them.

I don't want to undersell the system's graphical ability. Games like Resident Evil 4 and Black came about on consoles five years old. Revolution is certainly more capable and therefore the potential for some gorgeous software is there. I'm quite certain that Retro's Metroid Prime 3 will be a stunner -- and it's going to play like no console game before it.
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Slartibartfast said:
I remember seeing a lot of commercials for the dreamcast, but I don't think I've ever seen an xbox or 360 commercial.
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I see those allllllll the time. At least one a day. As for DC...i could go months without seeing one.
 
*cough* Revolution? hehe
BTW, Matt almost confirms what I've been thinking all along. Rev IS probably capable of HD (since it's more powerful than the XBox1 of course, and XBox1 has some HD titles) however it will probably be at the developer's discretion what to use the CPU/GPU power for. Read between the lines here:

The Big N's self-described 'new generation' console, codenamed Revolution, will not regularly output high-definition visuals, which has some graphic junkies throwing a fit. Most, if not all Revolution titles will run in standard definition with the option for progressive-scan display.
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More excerpts from Matt's editorial:
One thing I've learned about some of my Xbox 360 games is that while the graphics are initially impressive, you eventually take them for granted, at which point gameplay returns to its rightful place as the most important factor. I'm finding that many of my 360 games look good, but play exactly like their predecessors. Fight Night. Need for Speed. Perfect Dark Zero. Project Gotham Racing 3. Cut away the prettier visuals and you're left with games that could have been made for Xbox. The gameplay is exactly the same. And this is partly why Revolution holds so much promise. The system's unique new controller may help both reinvent old genres and create brand new ones.
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We talk about the mainstream, but videogames have barely scratched the surface of what that really means. When Halo or Grand Theft Auto sell three million copies, we say they have mainstream appeal, and yet that figure is miniscule compared to how many sales a popular DVD may garner in a single day. Or, for that matter, how many people view a hit television show. Revolution is the first console targeting the real mainstream - the elusive gamer and the hardcore. Everyone from the person who played through Eternal Darkness three times to the 60-something grandfather who may have no understanding whatsoever of a traditional videogame.

Just this morning, I was going through a level in the first-person shooter Black - a spectacular looking title that could easily run on Nintendo's new generation console - and wondering how much more intuitive the experience would be with the Revmote, as people have taken to calling it. I'm confident that Metroid Prime 3 will show everyone how it's done. And when that inevitably happens, will seasoned gamers look upon traditional dual-analog control as a dated and clunky configuration? I think the answer is yes.
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It may not guarantee success nothing do. You can make a very solid machine like Dreamcast and fail anyway...

That PS2 have outplayed the Xbox is hardly because the PS2 is a superior console...

But for me as a PC Gamer I don´t see any reason whatsoever to get a Xbox 360 or PS3. Won´t give me anything I don´t already have and cost to much. Now I don´t know what the Revo will cost but I suspect it will be much cheaper. From what I have heard you can hook it up to a PC monitor. Don´t have a widescreen television. Though I understand that many people will not buy it because of that reason if they plan to game on a widescreen tv of course. That is a bit to be worried about.

But anyway for me the controller seems brilliant. I already have TrackIR I just hope they use it to develope more complex games and not simplify things as gamepad optimized games always are... Except fighting and platform games...

Now it won´t always be able to out compete the mouse/keyboard combination but I can see some titles that could run really well on it :). Now the problem will be as always the PC games looks so much better but that new controller may make it worthwhile...

It may not outsell PS 3. Xbox 360 don´t sell at all in Japan so I still think PS 3 will sell better though I don´t think it will be superior to the Xbox 360 in performance at all. Think the Revolution may be able to compete with the 360 on the global market though it will be though of course but don´t think any of these can touch Sony.

But it being cheaper to produce I think Nintendo will make money on it for sure.
 
oqvist said:
It may not guarantee success nothing do. You can make a very solid machine like Dreamcast and fail anyway...

That PS2 have outplayed the Xbox is hardly because the PS2 is a superior console...

But for me as a PC Gamer I don´t see any reason whatsoever to get a Xbox 360 or PS3. Won´t give me anything I don´t already have and cost to much. Now I don´t know what the Revo will cost but I suspect it will be much cheaper. From what I have heard you can hook it up to a PC monitor. Don´t have a widescreen television. Though I understand that many people will not buy it because of that reason if they plan to game on a widescreen tv of course. That is a bit to be worried about.

But anyway for me the controller seems brilliant. I already have TrackIR I just hope they use it to develope more complex games and not simplify things as gamepad optimized games always are... Except fighting and platform games...

Now it won´t always be able to out compete the mouse/keyboard combination but I can see some titles that could run really well on it :). Now the problem will be as always the PC games looks so much better but that new controller may make it worthwhile...

It may not outsell PS 3. Xbox 360 don´t sell at all in Japan so I still think PS 3 will sell better though I don´t think it will be superior to the Xbox 360 in performance at all. Think the Revolution may be able to compete with the 360 on the global market though it will be though of course but don´t think any of these can touch Sony.

But it being cheaper to produce I think Nintendo will make money on it for sure.
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As much as I love my keyboard+mouse for shooters... think of it this way. You've got your "mouse" (the revmote) but instead of WASD, you've got full analog control with the nunchaku attachment. I'd say, if it's pulled off correctly, it may even rival the keyboard and mouse since you've got full 3d movement capability AND analog walking/strafing :D

That said, the PC will still (and always) have superior visuals to any console, the PS3 included, if that's what you're looking for.
 
Yes but then precision is important. If there is lagg it will be hard to use it in fps games or if the precision lacks a bit. I tried the monsterGecko Pistolmouse and though it was very ergonomic I didn´t quite like it that much. Scroll wheel with no resistance and unrealistic y-movements. It acts like a mouse but looks like the real deal thus it gets annoying.

So yes I have no problems seeing it´s potential but I know how hard time naturalpoint has to convince game developers to add TrackIR support to their games. Also it puts higher demand on the AI and such. Converted Xbox or PS with stupid AI and auto aim and hitboxes fps games for example may be even worse for Revo because it get to easy...

I think most of us gamers are so stupid. Just give us a couch and gamepad we don´t need anything more.
 
The entire gaming press has said the controller is accurate and such (some have said moreso than a mouse), so I wouldn't worry. This was originally meant to be a gamecube peripheral, but instead they decided to make it a Revolution standard. They have been in R&D for a LONG time with it, so I think they would have perfected it by the time it launches.

There are already Revolution games in development that are multiplatform (i.e. Splinter Cell, Call of Duty) that will make use of the Revolution FPS control method without the need for ai stupidifying and auto-aim hitboxes as they will on the other 2 systems, according to Matt from IGN as well. A lot of things are going well for Nintendo at the moment.

I think most of us gamers are so stupid.
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And I'll end off with a QFFT! :D
 
steviep said:
As much as I love my keyboard+mouse for shooters... think of it this way. You've got your "mouse" (the revmote) but instead of WASD, you've got full analog control with the nunchaku attachment. I'd say, if it's pulled off correctly, it may even rival the keyboard and mouse since you've got full 3d movement capability AND analog walking/strafing :D

That said, the PC will still (and always) have superior visuals to any console, the PS3 included, if that's what you're looking for.
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That's true, but the question is at what cost? With people buying fewer and fewer PC games, even the quality of them could start going downhill as well. When you can spend $1200-1400 for an SLI, or $2400-2800 for a new Quad-SLI system for the video cards alone, it BETTER outperform a $400-600 console
 
A Conroe-based system with a single G80 or R600 based GPU (based on preliminary benches) that costs around $1200-1400 will easily outperform an X360 and have a lot more functionality. Cost is not an issue if you are a graphics whore. And if you're a graphics whore, you're going to spend top dollar on your computer anyway. That's not the point.

The point is that the Revolution is an interesting beast. It will no doubt (if they've pulled it off, as all gaming sites/mags have said) have superior controls to the X360 and PS3, but not as much horsepower. Will it be a similar case of DS vs PSP, or some other case? Time will tell, but many analysts and editors alike seem to think Nintendo is poised for a coup of the market and a revitalization of the currently stagnant state of all gaming.
 
steviep said:
Time will tell, but many analysts and editors alike seem to think Nintendo is poised for a coup of the market and a revitalization of the currently stagnant state of all gaming.
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......no. These are the people who don't mind trying quirky, dorky technology that has them waving their hands around. The people that drive the market as a whole are the 20-30 year old MEN who buy ea sports games year after year, not the people who read this forum, and not the people who edit video game websites. Even if it does turn out to be a critical success, it can completely fail if normal people dont take a liking to it. Therein lies nintendo's main problem.

I have no problem with this "stagnant state" myself, as ghost recon reminds me more of a movie than any game ive played in recent memory. Graphics dont make a game, but they certainly help envelop you in the game world, which is the same reason that special effects in movies have improved. A lot of us out there dont want this gimmicky, bizarre stuff- we're perfectly fine with ghost recon, oblivion, gears of war, ut 2k7, and anything else microsoft and/or sony wants to wow me with on my hdtv. Im not saying i wont buy a revolution, but holy crap lets wait til its released and enjoy what we have now. While you're posting every other response in this thread with new revolution articles to read, im sitting in front of my tv enjoying the games i have. To each his own, i guess.
 
Why does that 1 piece of misinformation about the Revolution keep coming up from people who are either uneducated or too lazy to read a bit more about it? How many hundred thousand times does it have to be debunked? To quote 1UP/EGM:

I first, I was standing up and swinging my hand all around to aim - and my arms got really tired really quick. But once I sat down and relaxed, resting my hands on my legs as I would with a normal controller, everything clicked.
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You're right about the endless speculation, yes. But it's all that the PS3 and Revolution have right now. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the few remaining good PS2/Gamecube titles I have yet to play that I want, a whole shitload of PC games, and wait for the real 'next-gen', or as it tends to be called nowadays, "new gen" to come.

Where you are wrong, however, is your assumption that 16-30 is what is truly the biggest market, and what Nintendo is doing with the DS is proving that wrong. If analysts are right, and journalists, and editors, and so many others are right... the untapped market is everyone BUT us in the "hardcore" and they are, incidentally, the MUCH MUCH bigger market. I'll let Slarti explain the "blue ocean" strategy to you, since I'm tired of typing :p
 
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