Report Claims Huawei Tried to Steal Screen Hardening Tech

AlphaAtlas

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As we've said before, Huawei is in trouble outside of their home country. Last month, the DoJ charged Huawei and several executives with 23 crimes, but Bloomberg recently published a report claiming that U.S government is conducting an entirely separate investigation. The report alleges that Huawei tried to reverse engineer Akhan Semiconductor's proprietary screen hardening tech when the small company sent Huawei a sample. After talking to the FBI a few weeks later, they "took a very keen interest" in Akhan's problems, as the diamond coating used in their glass has potential military applications. Today, a Chinese official issued a fresh statement claiming that there's "No evidence Huawei a national security threat," but the Akhan investigation is still ongoing, and the company's latest statements say they "still have not recovered all of our product from Huawei, despite repeated written and oral requests and inquiries to Huawei."

The FBI raided Huawei's San Diego facility on the morning of Jan. 28. That evening, the two special agents and Assistant U.S. Attorney Kessler briefed Khan and Shurboff by phone. The agents described the scope of the search warrant in vague terms and instructed Khan and Shurboff to have no further contact with Huawei. Khan and Shurboff don't know how the story will end. It's possible that the government will conclude there aren't grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn't serious enough to seek charges. If that's so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something-anything-bad? On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. "I think they're identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business," Khan says. "I wouldn't say they're discriminating."
 

PenGunn

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This is because Huawei is kicking Apples ass quite seriously. I have a P10 and its a beautiful phone.
 

ir0nw0lf

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With all the things going on around the world, there just isn't ENOUGH POPCORN!!!
Gotta think big! [from movie Real Genius]

th?id=OIP.jH3J47IJlu4e4CHxitXBeQHaDy&pid=15.jpg
 

sMiLeYz

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You are that stupid. Did you know that every fucking package that leaves that phone goes through the nearest cell tower. Did you know those routers can inspect every package to a variety of depths. If no one has found a backdoor yet its very likely there is none as it would have been shouted from the rooftops.

Chicken Little ... the sky is not falling. ;)

Whatever you gotta tell yourself. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly computer security researcher.
 

PenGunn

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Whatever you gotta tell yourself. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly computer security researcher.
What does that even mean? Hell I'm a retired hacker. I have been many places I should not have been and that was cool once. Now its a fucking crime, so as I do not wish to maintain 5 deep, I quit fooling around.

Computer Security Researcher ... LOL.
 

PenGunn

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Chinese IP theft isn't real? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

You think there are any innocents in this field? Everyone steals from everyone else whatever they can in high tech land. The Chinese are certainly guilty of this, but so is the US.

This geopolitics, as Huawei has better and deployed 5G where it holds sway. Which is over a large part of the world. This is freaking out the US and probably should. ;)
 

PenGunn

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Chinese IP theft isn't real? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

You think there are any innocents in this field? Everyone steals from everyone else whatever they can in high tech land. The Chinese are certainly guilty of this, but so is the US.

This geopolitics, as Huawei has better and deployed 5G where it holds sway. Which is over a large part of the world. This is freaking out the US and probably should. ;)
I could say the same thing about your "retired hacker" statement. LOL... right..
Well done, you are firing on all cylinders.
 

kirbyrj

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You think there are any innocents in this field? Everyone steals from everyone else whatever they can in high tech land. The Chinese are certainly guilty of this, but so is the US.

This geopolitics, as Huawei has better and deployed 5G where it holds sway. Which is over a large part of the world. This is freaking out the US and probably should. ;)

But at the same time you don't really see many "American knockoffs" of Chinese products either. Just saying ;).
 

Comixbooks

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cut paste

“We had two elements,” she explains. “The interior, which we built on stage and that took about 40 tons of popcorn inside. Outside, waiting up in the wings, we had 100 tons of popcorn in 40 tractor trailers parked up the street. Then these huge vacuum machines would suck it out of the trucks, load it up into the house, and blow it out of the house. One take took 15 seconds. We had 15 good seconds on each shot of popcorn coming out and then you couldn’t go back, you had to keep going. Once you did the first take you could only progress because it took a whole day to clean up. To come back for take two of the same take you had to go away for a week then come back.”

Today's movies just CG everything pretty impressive.
 
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The Chinese trying to steal IP instead of developing it on their own? This isn't news. This is an everyday occurrence.

The electric light bulb, refrigerators, the internal combustion engine, the jet engine, the personal computer, the telephone, transistors and record players were all "stolen" by American inventors and companies. That's how industrial science has always worked, ideas get passed around and "stolen" endlessly until somebody puts the design into mass production. Even then the design gets passed around and whored out all over the place until somebody starts making whatever it is cheap.

China is leveraging its massive 300 million strong consumer base to "steal" IP just like the United States has done for over a century (that's what the patent system is actually for). The Chinese consumer base is expanding while the US is completely stagnant and set to start shrinking with rampant xenophobia and a shrinking middle class. The politicians that whisper your thoughts are trying to sell you this new line because it's watching American companies get drop kicked in R&D by China, especially in telecom. Worse yet Chinese companies don't need the US consumer base as much as US companies need the Chinese one, the US is seeing the tables turned. The demands are going the other way, now companies have to cozen to China to access their much more dynamic consumer base.

Now, while IP theft is a bit of a red herring (though not completely phoney) designed to enrage the base and create an enemy to keep them agitated and frightened enough to get out and vote, I'm still very much against doing business with Chinese companies like Huawei. The reason is something the American conservative voting base doesn't care about: Human Rights. If any country doesn't welcome Chinese companies they start rounding up people from whatever country as well as people connected in whatever country has crossed them. Of course, the US puts you on the big list 'o' sanctions if your country isn't open to American corporations and that kills millions of people. I guess China has learned well. Strong arm everyone that gets in the way of your corporate interests and then wipe out the local competition.

You notice that getting on the big list 'o' sanctions doesn't bite like it used to? That's because China has a huge consumer base to sell to and a huge manufacturing base to buy from, the United States is watching its power dwindle because a country is doing the same thing the United States has done since WWII. That's not a gleeful situation, there are no just desserts here. This is incredibly dangerous for the entire free world. A more pervasive and effective threat than any soldier, missile or spy could ever be.

If the western world doesn't band together to actually take on what is a totalitarian country, let's not forget, that is exercising huge power over our own companies then they will run us over. So what is the solution to banding together to take on a really serious threat? Nationalistic hand-fucking and brain dead populism! Because that's always worked in the past! Now we have an American government launching constant attacks on her allies, lashing out at everyone in reach like a bully in a playground who just found out he's not the biggest kid in school any longer so his friends are the only ones he can attack. This is the worst time to be falling back to the same behaviours that gave us the great depression and the second world war.

But at the same time you don't really see many "American knockoffs" of Chinese products either. Just saying ;).

Yes, you do, especially in architectural design and engineering. I proudly bought lovely little (not little at all and invented by the Swiss) cleated washers and flanges from a PA company full of people I love. I can't right now because all of the various tariffs on them have more than doubled the price so I have to buy them from a Hamilton company full of ass holes and used douche bags, unreliable ones at that. There's also a completely mind-blowing heated glass invented by Danes that a Colorado company ripped off that lead to suits filed, of course those suits went through America's kangaroo patent courts, foreign companies don't win there much. They were created to leverage the American consumer base for the sake of IP theft, after all. Those are just two products that I have actually had to purchase in my small company of under 100 employees.
 

dgz

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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win
 

sfsuphysics

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Maybe companies should stop sending samples to Huawei if they dont want them trying to reverse engineer it
 

Uvaman2

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Thing i don't get... Huawei this and that... Don't they still depeng on Qualcomm for their most important silicon?
 

piscian18

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Man, this thread got toxic. At any rate it sucks for them, Im a designer and I have to share my ideas and designs with a massive crowd of vendors and other folks in my industry. I'm always on the lookout for my shit suddenly popping up in someone else products. Its just a fact of life in my industry that we kind of work as a group to develop. Sometimes when you're shilling your work or co-developing your works gonna get lifted. Its funny giving so much shit to the chinese just reminded me of the fact that Sony lifted the Psxrearmed core for the Playstation Classic.

Yes I agree Hauwei is seriously bad news as Ive mentioned before a lot of engineering shops wont even let their sales reps passed security, however to say the chinese are the only ones lifting designs? Thats laughable.
 
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Whatever you gotta tell yourself. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly computer security researcher.

What does that even mean? Hell I'm a retired hacker. I have been many places I should not have been and that was cool once. Now its a fucking crime, so as I do not wish to maintain 5 deep, I quit fooling around.

Computer Security Researcher ... LOL.
lowly ? well they can blackmail or flip you to
1. plant incriminating files on your boss/colleague, then they will move on to your boss/colleague for further blackmail or just to get rid of them to prepare for a flipped replacement
2. make you plant software on every product you work on , then they will move on from there
3. they can just wait for 5,10 years time then activate you when you are already at a higher level or at a different company
4. secure intelligence for eventual blackmail / leverage if they decide to engage the company in a open-market business venture
5. or even something as simple as having you leak information on what type and version of software is installed, or leaking the contractor / client list

and it is not just direct IP theft. They could blackmail/flip you for financial data which they can capitalize to
1. come in as a angel investor when things go south ( ex: many Chinese linked venture capitalists in the Silicon Valley)
2. strategic purchase through a conglomerate
3. identify and pressure any adjunct partner/supplier/client that is compromised or Chinese allied. Then use that as leverage

or even something which seems innocuous as
1. research partnership with Chinese university counterparts can be leveraged

Man, this thread got toxic. At any rate it sucks for them, Im a designer and I have to share my ideas and designs with a massive crowd of vendors and other folks in my industry. I'm always on the lookout for my shit suddenly popping up in someone else products. Its just a fact of life in my industry that we kind of work as a group to develop. Sometimes when you're shilling your work or co-developing your works gonna get lifted. Its funny giving so much shit to the chinese just reminded me of the fact that Sony lifted the Psxrearmed core for the Playstation Classic.

Yes I agree Hauwei is seriously bad news as Ive mentioned before a lot of engineering shops wont even let their sales reps passed security, however to say the chinese are the only ones lifting designs? Thats laughable.

China's plan is far beyond just making a profit. That is the problem. ( re: China's 2025 masterplan and it;s offshoots )

On the other hand, It's just popcorn
if McLaren stole from Ferrari
 
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TheOne&OnlyZeke

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"I got your hardening tech right here." -she said
This is the direction this thread should have gone from the start

Not conspiracy theory central

I have a Huawei P20 Pro
Am I worried the chinese have my info?...meh...not like the google or bookface don't already have it
 

daglesj

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This is because Huawei is kicking Apples ass quite seriously. I have a P10 and its a beautiful phone.

I think this is it. They have taken over a huge chunk of the market very quickly and it's scaring a lot of other manufacturers. So smear away.

When people go "oh the kit is spying etc." I ask for specific proof of actual code, chips etc. etc. and...nothing. Just vague statement after vague statement from supposed security agency folks.
 

Trimlock

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Chinese IP theft isn't real? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

He'll probably not pay you, copy it and then keep it. Then the government will say theres no evidence that he copied your bridge.
 

sMiLeYz

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I think this is it. They have taken over a huge chunk of the market very quickly and it's scaring a lot of other manufacturers. So smear away.

When people go "oh the kit is spying etc." I ask for specific proof of actual code, chips etc. etc. and...nothing. Just vague statement after vague statement from supposed security agency folks.

Being ethnically Chinese and working in the InfoSec field, I find most westerner's naivety hilarious. In the west we're used to the Government and Corporations being separate entities, in China there is no such distinction.

Not gonna mince words. Huawei is a front for Chinese Military Intelligence.

When we trace malware back to APT's, some of the Command and Control infrastructure belong to Huawei. They're so brazen about it they don't care.



Think about it, a device in your pocket, that record you anytime even if you turn it off, track you and take pictures AND has your personal infomation, photos, and nudes that could be used to black mail you. It's a dream of any spy agency in the world to own the backdoor to that phone. Imagine if that backdoor is in the hardware, there is no way you can get rid of it short of getting a new phone.

At my company, if we had a guy who brought a Huawei phone in, that results in a immediate confiscation of said phone by CSO, and a talk from our internal security team. Nothing less.
 

daglesj

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Being ethnically Chinese and working in the InfoSec field, I find most westerner's naivety hilarious. In the west we're used to the Government and Corporations being separate entities, in China there is no such distinction.

Not gonna mince words. Huawei is a front for Chinese Military Intelligence.

When we trace malware back to APT's, some of the Command and Control infrastructure belong to Huawei. They're so brazen about it they don't care.



Think about it, a device in your pocket, that record you anytime even if you turn it off, track you and take pictures AND has your personal infomation, photos, and nudes that could be used to black mail you. It's a dream of any spy agency in the world to own the backdoor to that phone. Imagine if that backdoor is in the hardware, there is no way you can get rid of it short of getting a new phone.

At my company, if we had a guy who brought a Huawei phone in, that results in a immediate confiscation of said phone by CSO, and a talk from our internal security team. Nothing less.


So erm...proof, the chips, the firmware etc.

And I don't mean vague statements from Western Govt infosec agents.

I'd put money on this gear being too difficult for Western agencies to crack open.
 

sMiLeYz

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So erm...proof, the chips, the firmware etc.

And I don't mean vague statements from Western Govt infosec agents.

I'd put money on this gear being too difficult for Western agencies to crack open.

Ain't my job to personally convince you of anything. If you don't trust experts then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's like flat earthers asking me to prove the world is round or antivaxx asking me to prove vaccines are safe.

Tons of available info online, and years of research done.

Enjoy the Huawei phones, for the rest of with common sense, we'll go buy Samsung or Apple.
 
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Verge

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You think there are any innocents in this field? Everyone steals from everyone else whatever they can in high tech land. The Chinese are certainly guilty of this, but so is the US.

This geopolitics, as Huawei has better and deployed 5G where it holds sway. Which is over a large part of the world. This is freaking out the US and probably should. ;)

What has the US stolen in the last 20 years? Bold statement, i detect a bit of nationalism in there.
 

daglesj

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Ain't my job to personally convince you of anything. If you don't trust experts then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's like flat earthers asking me to prove the world is round or antivaxx asking me to prove vaccines are safe.

Tons of available info online, and years of research done.

Enjoy the Huawei phones, for the rest of with common sense, we'll go buy Samsung or Apple.

Fine, as I suspected.
 
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