Red Light Cameras Are The Ultimate Scam For Drivers And Cities

Megalith

Megalith

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As if you needed reminding, red light cameras are more about profit than safety. I didn’t even realize these were shut down in my state in 2014—are they still going in yours?

Many drivers are familiar with receiving the dreaded automated traffic enforcement photo for running a red light. While red light cameras have been reported to reduce broadside crashes, it has been shown these cameras increase rear-end collisions as well. In addition, numerous tickets aren't going to people running straight through red lights, but drivers failing to make a complete stop while turning on red. Safety is touted as the biggest concern but there are better long term solutions than municipalities installing red light cameras. Building more roundabouts and lengthening yellow lights are just two of several cheaper alternatives to red light cameras.
 
I see red light cameras where I live in Canada but have no idea if they are operational or not. I just assume they are and never run a red light.
 
rezerekted said:
I see red light cameras where I live in Canada but have no idea if they are operational or not. I just assume they are and never run a red light.
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So you're stating that the only actual reason that you do not or would not run a red light is simply because you think you might get caught in the process of breaking the law... right? Right? You'd run the red light if you knew for a fact that you wouldn't get caught, right? Right?

That's sure how it seems based on your statement.
 
Tiberian said:
So you're stating that the only actual reason that you do not or would not run a red light is simply because you think you might get caught in the process of breaking the law... right? Right? You'd run the red light if you knew for a fact that you wouldn't get caught, right? Right?

That's sure how it seems based on your statement.
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LOL, that is not what I meant at all. What I mean is that I am extra careful not to run a red light. I have never run a red light in my life. NEXT!
 
A longer delay between the red and green would also help. Lengthening yellows won't really work though as you always have people trying to beat the yellow.
 
I don't run red lights but it's the yellow lights I've been pulled over for. Supposedly you aren't allowed to run a yellow light, and should treat it like a red light?
 
DukenukemX said:
I don't run red lights but it's the yellow lights I've been pulled over for. Supposedly you aren't allowed to run a yellow light, and should treat it like a red light?
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Um wat? Really? You got a ticket for crossing during a yellow?
 
DukenukemX said:
I don't run red lights but it's the yellow lights I've been pulled over for. Supposedly you aren't allowed to run a yellow light, and should treat it like a red light?
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Well, it's a bit grey, you are supposed to stop at a yellow light unless it is unsafe to do so. Just dispute it and claim it was unsafe to stop at the yellow light because your car was travelling too fast and too close to the light to stop in such a short space.
 
rezerekted said:
Well, it's a bit grey, you are supposed to stop at a yellow light unless it is unsafe to do so. Just dispute it and claim it was unsafe to stop at the yellow light because your car was travelling too fast and too close to the light to stop in such a short space.
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It actually varies by state and country. In some states, it is legal to enter the intersection as long as the light is yellow, regardless of circumstance. In others, you're supposed to stop if its safe.
 
Tsumi said:
It actually varies by state and country. In some states, it is legal to enter the intersection as long as the light is yellow, regardless of circumstance. In others, you're supposed to stop if its safe.
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Ok, I live in Canada so it is as I said. A yellow is a warning that the light is going to turn red so it doesn't make sense for it to have the same rules as a green light.
 
Seems like most cops run red lights by default all the time lol. I just hate the signal lights with super short yellow periods.
 
If they have the 1/4 mile pre-light flashing "Prepare To Stop" I slow down in preparation and stop..
Otherwise, if the light turns yellow and I can stop without all of my groceries ending up on the floorboards I do.
If I am very close and stopping would make my seat belt lock and squeal the tires on my non-ABS car I will continue through a yellow light.
I will say that sometimes at a busy street you can't help but 'yield' at a red if you're turning right, different situation though since you're only traveling a few MPH and could stop easily if need be. I guess that's where they get ya.

Roundabouts are very nice, now only if everyone knew how to use them. Seems every time I encounter one there is someone holding up traffic, white knuckled and wondering what the hell they are supposed to do.

Now if they could only time lights so you don't have to stop at... every.... single.... intersection. Maybe then we wouldn't have red light runners? Hard to account for grandmas and acceleration lag though. :D
 
I would fear for my life on this roundabout.

The Magic Roundabout - Swindon's white knuckle ride! SwindonWeb guide

We have a few roundabouts here in Canada but very few and they are just small roundabouts. I know how to use them properly because I researched how to use them properly after a friend gave me misinformation on the correct signally process on roundabouts. Many people here don't have a clue how to use them correctly.
 
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rezerekted said:
I would fear for my life on this roundabout.

The Magic Roundabout - Swindon's white knuckle ride! SwindonWeb guide

We have a few roundabouts here in Canada but very few and they are just small roundabouts. I know how tom use them properly because I researched how to use them properly after a friend gave me misinformation on the correct signally process on roundabouts. Many people here don't have a clue how to use them correctly.
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Roundabouts are becoming much more common in Ontario. The MTO is building a new one on #21 this summer. Lower tier municipalities are also building them.
 
You actually don't have to pay them since an officer didn't give you the ticket personally, but you got to know what forums to fill out and that info is few and far between.
 
I live near a small/medium city South-East of Montreal and they just installed our first one ~2 weeks ago at the biggest intersection in the city.
I'm sure it'll bring $ to the city. I started to avoid that intersection as much as possible in fear of getting rear ended by someone not paying attention.
 
xmadror said:
I live near a small/medium city South-East of Montreal and they just installed our first one ~2 weeks ago at the biggest intersection in the city.
I'm sure it'll bring $ to the city. I started to avoid that intersection as much as possible in fear of getting rear ended by someone not paying attention.
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Why in Quebec can't you turn right on a red light like the rest of Canada? I went to Quebec and turned right on a red light in Quebec City, never got caught but didn't even know that was illegal in Quebec until after I left there.
 
I happen to like red-light cameras. Nothing pisses me off more than some self-important piece of shit cruising through a red.

It seems like all of the arguments against red-light cameras have nothing to do with the red-light cameras themselves.

-Money and corruption? This is legit but the solution isn't to eliminate the cameras. Either eliminate the corruption or change the money end of the equation. Maybe have all money gathered from red light cameras go to a federal repository where it can then be used to compensate cities for the costs of their cameras, assuming they can prove those costs.

-Read-end collisions? It's the responsibility of every driver to make sure that they leave enough room between their car and the car in front of them to be able to stop, *even if* the person in front of them slams on their brakes as hard as they can. I don't really see how this would be any different than any other rear-end collision, and the problem certainly isn't the camera... If anything it's a net positive since these fuckers who tailgate are getting their rear-end collision filmed so they can't just BS their way out of it.
 
GotNoRice said:
I happen to like red-light cameras. Nothing pisses me off more than some self-important piece of shit cruising through a red.

It seems like all of the arguments against red-light cameras have nothing to do with the red-light cameras themselves.

-Money and corruption? This is legit but the solution isn't to eliminate the cameras. Either eliminate the corruption or change the money end of the equation. Maybe have all money gathered from red light cameras go to a federal repository where it can then be used to compensate cities for the costs of their cameras, assuming they can prove those costs.

-Read-end collisions? It's the responsibility of every driver to make sure that they leave enough room between their car and the car in front of them to be able to stop, *even if* the person in front of them slams on their brakes as hard as they can. I don't really see how this would be any different than any other rear-end collision, and the problem certainly isn't the camera... If anything it's a net positive since these fuckers who tailgate are getting their rear-end collision filmed so they can't just BS their way out of it.
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Most cities around my house have gotten rid of their red light cameras.
Then there is the city near by that just had thousands of red light tickets voided (if you know and go to court) because the yellow light was too short (shorter then the minimum required by law based on the traffic).

Putting a small 2 second delay after light turns red and before the cross light turns green does far more to eliminate accidents than a red light camera, but it doesn't raise revenue like a red light camera.

The reason most the cities have gotten rid of their cameras, is that they ended up loosing money on them. The state made too many regulations, like the minimum yellow light timing, etc. Besides, 95% of the tickets where for people who did a rolling stop on a right hand turn. I have one intersection in a neighboring city with a camera I needed to go through occasionally. I always made sure I stopped and counted to 3 before turning right if the light was red. Many time I have people almost rear end me or blare their horns at me because I actually stopped. I wasn't about to get a $500 ticket over 3 seconds.

As much as I hate red light camera, I wouldn't have a problem if they only sent ticket to people ACTUALLY blowing thought a red light. But then that wouldn't turn a profit.....
 
nutzo said:
Putting a small 2 second delay after light turns red and before the cross light turns green does far more to eliminate accidents than a red light camera
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Problem then is when people start to realize there is a gap, it will encourage more to run reds as they will know "herp derp i still have 2 seconds before the other light turns green!". Also, I don't believe in laws meant to accommodate bad behavior, I prefer laws that help eliminate bad behavior.

nutzo said:
95% of the tickets where for people who did a rolling stop on a right hand turn.
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Rolling =/= stop. Anyone who feels that they are special and don't need to stop, even when making a right on red, should get a ticket.
 
Tsumi said:
A longer delay between the red and green would also help. Lengthening yellows won't really work though as you always have people trying to beat the yellow.
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I timed one popular light in our city. It's a left hand turn light across a 4-lane. It is green for 10 seconds, yellow for 3 seconds, then turned red.

How are you supposed to go through that? Most of the time, the very first car is the only one that makes it through "safely" and just barely, if they are on it the instant it turns green. The second car is already in on yellow and probably on red before they are through the intersection (which technical counts as running a red), and the third (and fourth if they are dumb) car always hit on red.

Your right, people always try to beat the yellow, but it's gotta at least be some reasonable length. The yellows are just retardedly short where we are.
 
I only stop on yellow if I know that the light will be red before I exit the intersection. I have a time or two, sped up to get through them.
 
rezerekted said:
Why in Quebec can't you turn right on a red light like the rest of Canada? I went to Quebec and turned right on a red light in Quebec City, never got caught but didn't even know that was illegal in Quebec until after I left there.
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IIRC its legal everywhere but in Montreal.
There are also a lot of exceptions when indicated so by a panel near the traffic light.
 
OLD NEW; but this is something I have been saying for YEARS.
This whole SCAM was ginned up and sold to municipalities as a money making scheme. Literally companies like RedFlex were telling city managers "You are leaving millions on the table!"
In Tennessee they had to SUBVERT the state constitution to make it legal. Knoxville was one of the first cities to install these.
Studies show they either cause more accidents than anything.
PURE SCAM.
 
This is one of those technologies that COULD improve safety and target the blatant offenders if public officials cared about safety. But most of these are sold as revenue devices not safety devices. For a safety device, you could ignore the ticket aspect all together and use the camera records to prove who is at fault when an accident occurs.
 
Probleminfected said:
You actually don't have to pay them since an officer didn't give you the ticket personally, but you got to know what forums to fill out and that info is few and far between.
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In Ontario the Highway Traffic Act was amended so that the evidence they produce has the validity of a Provincial Offenses ticket. The certificate with photo is valid evidence of an offense being committed. The police are not required to appear in court.

Law Document English View
 
I mean honestly I dont see what the big deal is. They use them in my city and the solution to being ticketed is to obey the speed limit and come to a near complete stop at red lights, even if you are turning right. I see them flash at night when it's late and the coast is clear and some guy tries to make a right hand turn at 20 mph. When I approach these intersections I just slow down to like 2mph, or nearly stopped, and then proceed. Is that so hard? Also regarding the whole "they increase rear end collisions", no, idiot drivers increase rear end collisions by panic stopping. Dont fucking do that and you'll be fine. They utilize a threshold for where you are in the intersection to determine if you really ran a red light or not. If the light is yellow when you cross and it turns red while you are 50% across the intersection you will not get a ticket. Blaming cameras for slamming on the breaks is as bad as blaming Pokemon for people walking into traffic. Just dont be fucking stupid, dont drive 10+ over the limit, and come to a complete stop at an intersection and you'll be fine.
 
If I'm not mistaken, red light cameras have had a negligible, and perhaps even negative, effect, here in Chicago. Rear end collisions have increased by some measure, and I can attest to having seen more than a few. Biggest issue is that there seems to be yellow light manipulation on more than a few blocks, as the timings aren't consistent throughout the city. Many lights also have yellows that don't even meet the required 3 second duration. The mayor, in all his incompetency, had the gall to state that a few hundredths of a second doesn't matter when accounting for yellow lights. I don't think he's ever cruised at 30-40 mph in a 4 lane avenue.

Of course, I don't think its been any sort of secret that these cameras, at least in Chicago, have been nothing more than a cash grab.

"Lets dump the outcome of our financial misadventures on the populace." Works every time.:rolleyes:
 
Brian_B said:
I timed one popular light in our city. It's a left hand turn light across a 4-lane. It is green for 10 seconds, yellow for 3 seconds, then turned red.

How are you supposed to go through that? Most of the time, the very first car is the only one that makes it through "safely" and just barely, if they are on it the instant it turns green. The second car is already in on yellow and probably on red before they are through the intersection (which technical counts as running a red), and the third (and fourth if they are dumb) car always hit on red.

Your right, people always try to beat the yellow, but it's gotta at least be some reasonable length. The yellows are just retardedly short where we are.
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That's an issue with the people that decide the timing of your lights being unable to recognize the flow of traffic, and has nothing to do with safety due to timing of lights. A longer yellow only makes people more inclined to think they can beat it. A 2-4 second delay between the light turning red and the other lights turning green gives time for cars to clear the intersection, preventing t-bone accidents due to attempting to beat the red.
 
nysmo said:
I mean honestly I dont see what the big deal is. They use them in my city and the solution to being ticketed is to obey the speed limit and come to a near complete stop at red lights, even if you are turning right. I see them flash at night when it's late and the coast is clear and some guy tries to make a right hand turn at 20 mph. When I approach these intersections I just slow down to like 2mph, or nearly stopped, and then proceed. Is that so hard? Also regarding the whole "they increase rear end collisions", no, idiot drivers increase rear end collisions by panic stopping.
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Slowing down or nearly stopping is a good way to get one of these tickets in the mail. It may vary by state, but in California you must come to a complete stop, which is sometimes interpreted as 2-3 seconds.

I always stop at red lights, and at yellow lights if it's safe. I try to keep track of the cars behind me and take that into consideration when deciding if it's safe to stop.
However, a couple times I've had people lay on their horn, swerve around me, and speed though the light that was red before they even made it into the intersection. That's the type of driving that should be rewarded with a ticket, not someone who did a rolling stop before safely turning right on a red light.
 
The city I live in recently had public consultations regarding red light cameras. Some of the arguments against red light cameras are hilarious and absurd. People claim red light cameras cause accidents, particularly rear end collisions, as people are stopping short. This, of course, is completely false as if you are driving with proper separation you will have time to stop.

It is disgusting how many people run red lights where I live. I see it on a weekly basis at the intersection to the school I work at. As far as I am concerned put them up and let the bad drivers cry about the tickets they get for driving like assholes.
 
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Draax said:
The city I live in recently had public consultations regarding red light cameras. Some of the arguments against red light cameras are hilarious and absurd. People claim red light cameras cause accidents, particularly rear end collisions, as people are stopping short. This, of course, is completely false as if you are driving with proper separation you will have time to stop.

It is disgusting how many people run red lights where I live. I see it on a weekly basis at the intersection to the school I work at. As far as I am concerned put them up and let the bad drivers cry about the tickets they get for driving like assholes.
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Those reasons are correct however, no matter what you think of them. In many location yellows are extremely short, because of this people in most cases would choose to pass through the intersection, just barely catching the red light (ticket), however when people know there is a redlight camera they unsafely pull an emergency stop, which should NOT be done, take any sort of driving safety or defensive driving classes and they will all repeat this. Others are assuming they were going to keep going, rear end them, you also then have the people who will run red lights anyway and rear end people because they were going to go no matter what. And tickets stop red light runners? Nope. Most of these people do it ALL the time, and they know full well (in most places), nothing is going to happen if you do not pay them as they are use to dealing with the system. The normal Joe however is going to pay up, I have never run a red light before, I have been in an intersection as it changed red, which had it had a camera I would have been ticketed, and I have had once turning right on red, big open area, can see far down both sides, not a whole lot of traffic ever, I come to a stop, but it seems you have to wait at least 3 seconds at this light or it will trigger anyway. I then found out someone I work with was a serial red light runner because I was talking about it at work and he is the one that gave me all the information about it, because he "does it all the time".

Spiking crashes because you feel serial red light runners should be ticketed is unGodly stupid, the whole reason to be mad at these people is for causing crashes, so if the "fix" actually increases that crash rate, it is no fix at all.

Lets also not forget the few cities that have been sued because after the installation of red light cameras they actually reduced the yellow time so they could get more income from the cameras, resulting in a massive spike in crashes. Sadly I do not believe anyone had criminal charges brought up on them for this.
 
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GotNoRice said:
Rolling =/= stop. Anyone who feels that they are special and don't need to stop, even when making a right on red, should get a ticket.
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Having to completely stop makes absolutely no sense in a practical way. It increases pollution, it increases congestion, for what? You only need to do a full stop if it's not clear to proceed. If it's clear doing a full stop will do a great big nothing for safety. Actually it might make someone rear end you more easily.

Laws are supposed to be helping, if a law is not helping anything then it needs changing.
 
Draax said:
The city I live in recently had public consultations regarding red light cameras. Some of the arguments against red light cameras are hilarious and absurd. People claim red light cameras cause accidents, particularly rear end collisions, as people are stopping short. This, of course, is completely false as if you are driving with proper separation you will have time to stop.

It is disgusting how many people run red lights where I live. I see it on a weekly basis at the intersection to the school I work at. As far as I am concerned put them up and let the bad drivers cry about the tickets they get for driving like assholes.
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It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be. Sure keep a mile long following distance, in case crazy harry in his little red car decides to slam on the brakes because it just turned yellow. And the cars able to cross the intersection with one turn of signals will be halved. Is that really what we want? I personally can't wait for self-driving cars to take over the roads. And have no more taking 5 seconds to start at the green, and keep ten car lengths of safety distance at 10mph. The biggest pros of self driving cars is that reaction time can be excluded from the equation reducing following distance, and by that increasing traffic flow.
 
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