Red Dead Redemption 2 shown running faster on Linux than Windows 10

Zarathustra[H]

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So, how do you suggest they do that well also maintaining backwards compatibility spanning 30 or so years?
They could mitigate any compatibility breaking side effects from doing the right thing by sandboxing and internally using some sort of compatibility mode utilizing VM's or something like that. They already do stuff like that to allow the running of older titles and software in Windows Vista and beyond. If the mostly volunteer comparatively small WINE project can get a workaround going for a majority of things, I'm sure Microsoft with their army of software engineers can as well.

In the end, most software will still work, and the stuff that doesn't the vendors will just be forced to patch.

You can't let really bad design stick around forever just because you are afraid of breaking compatibility. If that were the case we wouldn't have a number of features we depend upon today, including UAC, virtalized RAM addressing, etc. etc. etc.
 
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ManofGod

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This does not really mean a dang thing since I am unable to get it to run. I installed the modified proton build but, it does not show up in Lutris, at all. Sure, it shows up in Steam but, that is useless for this, since I purchased the Rockstar Store version, which will have to run through Lutris. Also, no one offered any help or solution, although I did reach out and ask.
Looks like someone helped after all:

Also, now I'm reading over some of the comments on the github thread, and sure enough:

I've got the proton version downloaded, both in the steam compatibilitytools.d directory, as well as in the Lutris runners directory. Lutris does not automatically detect this version of proton (however it does automatically detect 5.9 GE which is also in compatibilitytools.d). Lutris does give the option to chose a custom path to the runner, but I'm not sure which file to choose.
followed by:
Symlink or copy the 'dist' folder inside the proton config to ~/.local/share/lutris/runners/.
So there you go.

Have not tried this yet so, we will see.
 

ChadD

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Yea steam DRM gets cracked the day the game is released. What ever RS using for RDR2 still hasn't been cracked.
That is true the use of the launcher and server checks has worked out well for them thus far. No denying that. Its still one of the few uncracked games. So I stand by what I said... the vast majority of AAA games are cracked in days, and consumers are saddled with the crap ware for years.
 

HeadRusch

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Security ?
... better performance on Linux by bypassing security measures.
We could add that to Websters as a in use example under the definition of Oxymoron.
Sorry to offend, let's try it this way: Get computer, install new OS, install a half dozen add-ons, install game (possibly directly, possibly indirectly), jump through a few more hoops, get game running almost possibly 97% but with "a few quirks, sometimes". Gain 5fps.

What time does the parade start......?
 

ManofGod

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Sorry to offend, let's try it this way: Get computer, install new OS, install a half dozen add-ons, install game (possibly directly, possibly indirectly), jump through a few more hoops, get game running almost possibly 97% but with "a few quirks, sometimes". Gain 5fps.

What time does the parade start......?
Well, that and the fact that there is no directions on how to get the patched driver installed and working. Took me a while to figure out, with others help, to get it starting in Lutris but, it fails with a graphics driver error because I do not know how to install the patched driver. Therefore, despite what others may say, Windows games do not just work.
 

ManofGod

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If you use Steam it is pretty much plug and play. Sometimes you need short command options, but it's not that complicated. And some games still don't work, but most do.
The fact is, most games do not work but perhaps, greater than 50% may work. Far more than used to but still a ways to go. Also, I am not going to get RDR2 through steam, which means you have to run dual launchers. I just start the Rockstar Launcher in Windows and the game runs but, in Linux, I have yet to get it going so, not so simple, yet.
 

ManofGod

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Well if greater than 50% of games work, that is a majority of games and thus most, no?
Most means most, as in nearly all of them but, so far, that is not the case. However, that may change as time marches on but still, I find no instructions on installing the Mesa patch to get RDR2 running.
 

odditory

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My semi educated guess as to why RD2 may be a bit faster on Linux right now... it would be mainly that. Linux is stopping the DRM from really degrading performance. There may be more to it... but I'm sure if its running 8-10% faster in Linux 3/4 of that gain comes from sending the DRM into a userland loop of some kind. Clearly it works so it thinks its doing what it was designed to do... but I'm sure its busy doing a lot of nothing under Linux.
Doubt it. DRM and copy-protection don't demonstrably impact performance the way pirates wish people would believe.

Also RDR2 hasn't been cracked/pirated on PC yet - its been impervious going on almost 8 months now.
 
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5150Joker

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For gaming, especially multiplayer gaming, the last thing I want is more open source. In fact, I wouldn't mind having a closed off OS strictly for gaming where you can't install anything on it, it just d/ls encrypted data like XBOX/PS4 and the end user can't touch the files in any way. Hacking is so fucking out of control in MP games that it's literally the only way to stop it.
 

cybereality

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For gaming, especially multiplayer gaming, the last thing I want is more open source. In fact, I wouldn't mind having a closed off OS strictly for gaming where you can't install anything on it, it just d/ls encrypted data like XBOX/PS4 and the end user can't touch the files in any way. Hacking is so fucking out of control in MP games that it's literally the only way to stop it.
Sounds like you want a console, my friend.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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For gaming, especially multiplayer gaming, the last thing I want is more open source. In fact, I wouldn't mind having a closed off OS strictly for gaming where you can't install anything on it, it just d/ls encrypted data like XBOX/PS4 and the end user can't touch the files in any way. Hacking is so fucking out of control in MP games that it's literally the only way to stop it.
Sounds like you want a console, my friend.
I think there it is reasonable to want the benefits of PC gaming without rampant hacking.

Though I will say, I don't believe hacking is quite as rampant as some would suggest.

I remember back when I played Counter-Strike (beta 4 through Source) and was regularly called a hacker by players who couldn't believe that I had just gotten good through practice.

I think a combination between a lot of players having way too much time to spend playing games, and netcode compensation making things look weird is to blame for most accusations of hacking.

It does happen, but for probably 20 to 40 accusations of hacking, there is likely only one real player hacking. At least that's my sense.
 

ThreeDee

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A step in the right direction. I hope performance on Linux continues to shine. Great alternative to the system hog that is Windows. Screw paying $100 dollars for a key and having to call Micro$oft every time you have a system hardware change.
I'd love to see Linux become a go-to gaming platform .. but your misgivings towards Windows is pretty exaggerated. As mentioned, keys can be had for under $15 if you actually need one. And I have swapped out a plethora of hardware without having to call anybody since going to Windows 10. (windows 7 I've had to call many times though)

If Hunt:Showdown worked in Linux ... I'd be real tempted to run Linux as my main OS again
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I'd love to see Linux become a go-to gaming platform .. but your misgivings towards Windows is pretty exaggerated. As mentioned, keys can be had for under $15 if you actually need one. And I have swapped out a plethora of hardware without having to call anybody since going to Windows 10. (windows 7 I've had to call many times though)

If Hunt:Showdown worked in Linux ... I'd be real tempted to run Linux as my main OS again

Those under $15 windows keys aren't exactly legit. More often than not they are stolen from the plants that print those key labels, or stolen from OE machines in ways that is counter to the license terms.

If you are getting a Windows license for less than $100 it's fairly safe to assume it is not legit. It will likely activate, but still, do you want your argument to depend on buying stolen and/or illegitimate goods?

Generally, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
 

ThreeDee

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Those under $15 windows keys aren't exactly legit. More often than not they are stolen from the plants that print those key labels, or stolen from OE machines in ways that is counter to the license terms.

If you are getting a Windows license for less than $100 it's fairly safe to assume it is not legit. It will likely activate, but still, do you want your argument to depend on buying stolen and/or illegitimate goods?

Generally, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
a lot of them that I have acquired where OEM Win7 keys that were on machines that were going to be destroyed and worked fine with Win10.. either way, I don't care .. they work and I have never had issues with them. If I were a business and/or professional IT guy or whatever, then I'd care.

But that is another great thing about Linux ... licenses are a non issue for the most part.
 

deruberhanyok

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Yeah. Let’s not pretend gaming on Linux is somehow easier than windows. I said earlier - at best, for games with native linux functionality in Steam, it’s equally simple. For Windows games in Steam with Proton support, it's... nearly as easy.

for anything else there's still hoops to jump through. Sometimes it's a couple of small hoops, sometimes they're on fire and you have to jump in the gasoline puddle first. I've had good and bad experiences with Lutris. Usually there's cause to do a little dance when I get something working. :)

Have to agree with Zarathustra[H] about those Windows licenses. Yes you can get them for $15 or less, it might work, but it's not legit.
 

cybereality

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I mean, if you are buying something new at 1/10th the retail price, it's almost guaranteed it's stolen.

Not gonna lie, I've bought those $15 keys before. I'm not a saint, but it is kind of suspect.
 

ThreeDee

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I mean, if you are buying something new at 1/10th the retail price, it's almost guaranteed it's stolen.

Not gonna lie, I've bought those $15 keys before. I'm not a saint, but it is kind of suspect.
I don't know ... I get non BMW retail parts for waaay cheaper for my 2004 325i .. and I'm pretty sure they're not stolen... and incidentally , they too have worked just fine

..but that's the great thing about Linux! ... [insert great thing about linux to stay on topic]
 

Skull_Angel

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I don't know ... I get non BMW retail parts for waaay cheaper for my 2004 325i .. and I'm pretty sure they're not stolen... and incidentally , they too have worked just fine

..but that's the great thing about Linux! ... [insert great thing about linux to stay on topic]
It can be done for car parts. Specialty tooling can be patented and will need a license agreement to use/copy, same with specialty part designs. I only know this because a mustang performance parts site got dinged for replicating the original-discontinued king cobra clutch assemblies.
 

ThreeDee

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It can be done for car parts. Specialty tooling can be patented and will need a license agreement to use/copy, same with specialty part designs. I only know this because a mustang performance parts site got dinged for replicating the original-discontinued king cobra clutch assemblies.
...to switch gears a bit .. i don't think they would have gotten dinged if they were selling actual used king cobra clutch assemblies .. :sneaky:
 

Armenius

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I think I remember seeing a few years ago that some of the Metro games ran better on Linux than on Windows too. Don't recall where I saw that though.
The Metro games have native Linux versions and they run "better" because the graphics engine is cut down to work within the API layers on that platform when compared to Windows. I'd like to see how the Windows versions run in a modern version of Wine or through Proton, though.
 

d33g4n

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So the bypassing of security makes it faster? I have tried Linux before just for shits. Would i move from windows for a couple extra frames? Not likley.
 

IdiotInCharge

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I just cleared out more space on my boot drive to do a bit more Linux gaming (and other stuff, like perhaps learning Davinci Resolve and figuring out how to farm work out to my various other desktops / laptops / desktops imitating servers). Rig in sig will be it, 9900K at 5.0GHz (4.9GHZ AVX) with the 1080Ti at full tilt (2050MHz+ under load).

I will also say that I'm not looking forward to the 'tips and tricks' that will be required for getting stuff running on Linux. On Windows, the only real 'moving target' is GPU drivers; on Linux, there's at least a dozen different things that are on different development tracks that can cause stuff to work better or worse, or just not at all -- and with all the layers required to get native Windows games running, hunting down issues can be a pain.
 

DukenukemX

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I will also say that I'm not looking forward to the 'tips and tricks' that will be required for getting stuff running on Linux. On Windows, the only real 'moving target' is GPU drivers; on Linux, there's at least a dozen different things that are on different development tracks that can cause stuff to work better or worse, or just not at all -- and with all the layers required to get native Windows games running, hunting down issues can be a pain.
It's different for AMD, Intel, and Nvidia GPU's. If you use AMD and Intel then you just install the OS and you're done. You could try to go after bleeding edge beta drivers but that's probably not a good idea for a casual Linux user. With Nvidia you need to install their drivers since Nvidia doesn't have good working open source drivers. If you use Ubuntu or Mint then just run driver manager and select the Nvidia driver.

As for getting Windows games running you have two choices. One is Proton through Steam which works really well and does everything for you. The other is Lutris, which also makes it easy and doesn't require any effort. If you want to to be able to double click any application and install it like you would on Windows then install Wine Staging, though you will get better compatibility with Lutris.

As an AMD or Intel user there are some benefits to be had with Linux. For example as an AMD user Linux's OpenGL drivers are actually really good and competitive against Nvidia. To this day I can't run Citris the 3DS emulator at full speed on Windows but on Linux it runs super fast. For Intel graphic users who are on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswell you don't get Vulkan support on Windows but you do in Linux. Vulkan makes a big difference in game performance.
 

IdiotInCharge

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It's different for AMD, Intel, and Nvidia GPU's. If you use AMD and Intel then you just install the OS and you're done. You could try to go after bleeding edge beta drivers but that's probably not a good idea for a casual Linux user. With Nvidia you need to install their drivers since Nvidia doesn't have good working open source drivers. If you use Ubuntu or Mint then just run driver manager and select the Nvidia driver.
I really don't have a problem with Nvidia drivers on Linux. Or Intel. Or AMD.

As for getting Windows games running you have two choices. One is Proton through Steam which works really well and does everything for you. The other is Lutric, which also makes it easy and doesn't require any effort. If you want to to be able to double click and application and install it like you would on Windows then install Wine Staging, though you will get better compatibility with Lutris.
I expect to use both, we'll see what works better for what.
As an AMD or Intel user there are some benefits to be had with Linux. For example as an AMD user Linux's OpenGL drivers are actually really good and competitive against Nvidia. To this day I can't run Citris the 3DS emulator at full speed on Windows but on Linux it runs super fast. For Intel graphic users who are on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswell you don't get Vulkan support on Windows but you do in Linux. Vulkan makes a big difference in game performance.
My Sandy and Ivy laptops are as old as their architectures, yet I've gamed on them on Windows too. I don't expect to have too many issues here.


It's mostly the race between driver updates, kernel updates, game updates, and so on. Especially for online stuff.
 

AVATARAT

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Cheap Windows keys are legit but... in Europe because EU court said it and Microsoft lose on that point. Yes only specific versions but is something.
And come on, most of you will pay hundred $$ for games that will play 50-100-200 hours but are not agree to pay for OS that will use few years ???

About Linux and gaming, well Linux will become gaming OS when, and only when games start to be wrote for it. If someone trying to said that emulated gaming is fine on Linux just because they "run better" he must know that he is wrong. Because for gaming we need not only someone to emulate any game, eventually if he have free time or wish, but we need companies that write games to do it and for Linux and to sell them like for other gaming platforms.

When this happen - Linux will become gaming OS. Till then it will be just "yeee my game run fine under Linux".
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Cheap Windows keys are legit but... in Europe because EU court said it and Microsoft lose on that point. Yes only specific versions but is something.
That depends. The EU court ruled that it was legal to resell your old OEM Windows Keys, something which previously had been a violation of the license agreement.

If that is where the key came from, then it is legal in the EU, but not outside the EU.

Lots of the keys found on Kinguin and other sites (some even say the overwhelming majority) are not individuals old keys being resold though. They are frequently stolen keys from various plants and printing locations where keys are made. They still work, as often the controls on and deactivation of stolen keys are very poorly managed, but they are still stolen goods, and that is still illegal, even in the EU. :p
 

DukenukemX

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And come on, most of you will pay hundred $$ for games that will play 50-100-200 hours but are not agree to pay for OS that will use few years ???
I didn't agree to use Windows OS but I need to in order to play the games I want to play. The only reason my main system isn't running Linux just yet is because I still run into issues playing them on Linux. I only have 1 PC running Windows because it's also my main gaming PC. The rest run Linux Mint and when every game I throw on Linux works then I'm dumping Windows for good.

When this happen - Linux will become gaming OS. Till then it will be just "yeee my game run fine under Linux".
Gotta start somewhere dude and if people aren't using Linux to test things out then we'll never get there.
 

AVATARAT

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Gotta start somewhere dude and if people aren't using Linux to test things out then we'll never get there.
Before ~15 years there was working games via wine, now we have more games and a bit more software to make it easier to install/support "playing" games under Linux - cool. Maybe after 15 years we will have someone to develop for Linux - cool.
Before 15 years my main computer had dual boot Win/Gentoo, my working computer was only under Linux for maybe 10 years. Now I use Windows everywhere, just because is more comfortable and I can play (if I want) just any new game without waiting "someone" to port it and I have a tons of software to choose :)

If you looking for "security" under Linux to hide you - OK this is nice, but I am sure that you have smartphone and then in your "security" had a hole bigger than this one that you can have under Windows :D
 

ChadD

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I don't know ... I get non BMW retail parts for waaay cheaper for my 2004 325i .. and I'm pretty sure they're not stolen... and incidentally , they too have worked just fine

..but that's the great thing about Linux! ... [insert great thing about linux to stay on topic]
Any key that doesn't sell for the retail price is not legit...
If it was pulled form a scrap computer its not legit. Licence is clearly for one machine and one machine only, they are not transferable.
If it claims to be a key for some enterprise or educational version... if you do not work for that company or attend that institution, it is also not legit.

There is no such thing as inexpensive keys. The closest you get is a OEM key from a major part seller who isn't really supposed to sell you one unless you buy the components of a new machine.

I mean who cares it isn't strictly relevant to a Linux conversation. Windows isn't a free operating system, that isn't a knock its just the facts as of now.

Really though if you can't justify $139 for a copy of 10 home, or $199 for 10 pro... I guess your using the wrong OS. Linux isn't better because its free... its better because its better, that its free is just a bonus. :p lol
 

cybereality

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I've actually donated probably as much money to Canonical than I have paid for Windows keys in the last couple years.

I wanted to use Linux for many reasons, mostly in terms of freedom, not because the price was free (but that is nice too).
 

DukenukemX

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Sounds like you kind of ipso facto agree to use the Windows OS. You can't have one without the other.
I agree to use Windows applications, not the OS. Though running Windows applications on Linux is getting better every year, it just isn't 100% yet. Most Steam games seem to work just fine, with some requiring extra work to get it running. I can't think of many games that doesn't work on Linux right now, but it's mostly new games that has DRM issues. At this point I'd say that DRM is the final hurdle to overcome for Linux gaming to be manageable.

I wanted to use Linux for many reasons, mostly in terms of freedom, not because the price was free (but that is nice too).
Free is just a nice small bonus for using Linux. There are many good reasons why people should use Linux.
1. Everything updates when you update the OS, not just the OS and select few applications.
2. You update when you want.
3. Much more secure of an OS than Windows. So much so that even Microsoft uses Linux for Azure.
4. You have the power over the OS, not the OS over the user. You don't like it then use a different distro.
5. Open source drivers means no such thing as outdated drivers.
6. You can customize the OS to how you feel. You can make it look like Mac, Windows, or whatever.
7. Linux is very thin, as in it doesn't use many resources on your machine, unlike Windows.
8. Linux can make better use of your system resources, as we know Windows has lots of bugs.
9. You're not dependant on the hardware manufacturer for code. Valve's ACO for example is a nice performance boost over LLVM for AMD and Valve even helped develop the Vulkan driver for Intel.

There's obvious disadvantageous for using Linux but if any of this interests anyone then be my guess and try out linux. If you can't deal with certain applications not being compatible or maybe your hardware isn't supported like VR headsets then you can be sure that people like us are going to continue to evolve Linux until it gets good enough that you have zero reasons not to use it. Because it'll get there eventually, and when Microsoft charges a monthly fee for using Windows features then Linux will be here waiting, for free.
 

ManofGod

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I agree to use Windows applications, not the OS. Though running Windows applications on Linux is getting better every year, it just isn't 100% yet. Most Steam games seem to work just fine, with some requiring extra work to get it running. I can't think of many games that doesn't work on Linux right now, but it's mostly new games that has DRM issues. At this point I'd say that DRM is the final hurdle to overcome for Linux gaming to be manageable.


Free is just a nice small bonus for using Linux. There are many good reasons why people should use Linux.
1. Everything updates when you update the OS, not just the OS and select few applications.
2. You update when you want.
3. Much more secure of an OS than Windows. So much so that even Microsoft uses Linux for Azure.
4. You have the power over the OS, not the OS over the user. You don't like it then use a different distro.
5. Open source drivers means no such thing as outdated drivers.
6. You can customize the OS to how you feel. You can make it look like Mac, Windows, or whatever.
7. Linux is very thin, as in it doesn't use many resources on your machine, unlike Windows.
8. Linux can make better use of your system resources, as we know Windows has lots of bugs.
9. You're not dependant on the hardware manufacturer for code. Valve's ACO for example is a nice performance boost over LLVM for AMD and Valve even helped develop the Vulkan driver for Intel.

There's obvious disadvantageous for using Linux but if any of this interests anyone then be my guess and try out linux. If you can't deal with certain applications not being compatible or maybe your hardware isn't supported like VR headsets then you can be sure that people like us are going to continue to evolve Linux until it gets good enough that you have zero reasons not to use it. Because it'll get there eventually, and when Microsoft charges a monthly fee for using Windows features then Linux will be here waiting, for free.
Yada, Yada, Linux is great because it is not Windows, yada, yada........... :rolleyes: If someone uses something, using it because it is not something else is not going to last.

Edit: Oh, and what the hell does this have to do with running RDR2 in Linux, I have yet to see anyone here say they have got it going and this is what they did........
 

IdiotInCharge

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1. Everything updates when you update the OS, not just the OS and select few applications.
Assuming the application is in the repo. I haven't had to go far myself to find that out.
2. You update when you want.
If there were a 'consumer' version of Linux with any non-trivial install base, this wouldn't be true. They'd build it into the OS and make sure attempts to circumvent were overwritten. Unsecured consumer devices of any sort are botnet fodder.
3. Much more secure of an OS than Windows. So much so that even Microsoft uses Linux for Azure.
In a nuts and bolts sense, it was easier for Microsoft to strip a Linux kernel down for cloud use than to strip Windows down; and at that point, the OS is serving as a hypervisor, so it simply doesn't matter much. They could easily use a Windows kernel for Azure, but it wouldn't provide any benefit.
4. You have the power over the OS, not the OS over the user. You don't like it then use a different distro.
You can strip Windows down fairly well with PowerShell. You want a pure server version, well, Microsoft has those 'distributions' available as well.
6. You can customize the OS to how you feel. You can make it look like Mac, Windows, or whatever.
7
You can run different 'shells' on Windows, not that there's much point outside of folks incapable of learning.
7. Linux is very thin, as in it doesn't use many resources on your machine, unlike Windows.
Linux is indeed thinner as it can be stripped down further; Windows is more integrated and thus that'd take work that has no return. Set up for more or less the same purposes, though, the difference is within the margin for error.
8. Linux can make better use of your system resources
This depends. The hardware support actually has to be there in Linux, and well, that's just a different shitshow than it is for Windows, not really better or worse when it comes to modern hardware.

[ancient or extremely low-end hardware I'll give you, but as above with cloud, this is not an area that Microsoft targets with Windows]
9. You're not dependant on the hardware manufacturer for code.
Plenty of custom drivers have been developed for Windows users, sound cards coming to immediate mind...
At this point I'd say that DRM is the final hurdle to overcome for Linux gaming to be manageable.
Probably the final major hurdle, but there is a mountain of smaller stuff that needs to be addressed from a user experience standpoint. The best distributions so far manage by pulling an Apple; they use refined defaults and abstract the details away.

Hard part about that is these distributions are then harder to deal with than Windows (or power-user oriented distros) because of how well everything is hidden!
 

DukenukemX

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Yada, Yada, Linux is great because it is not Windows, yada, yada........... :rolleyes: If someone uses something, using it because it is not something else is not going to last.
I gave clear reasons why I think Linux is better, and not because it isn't Windows. Though with the way Windows is going that maybe correct either way. Windows has familiarity and compatibility with Windows applications. You can also be assured that any new hardware that comes out will automatically be working on Windows compared to Linux. But those are the only 3 reasons you'd want to use Windows over Linux.

VLlnLxp.png
Edit: Oh, and what the hell does this have to do with running RDR2 in Linux, I have yet to see anyone here say they have got it going and this is what they did........
I don't have RDR2 yet. I do use RADV with ACO, because who doesn't amiright? This is one of the benefits of running Linux in that the drivers are open source. At least open source on AMD and Intel drivers. AMD users have three Vulkan driver choices on Linux. AMDGPU-PRO is their proprietary driver that AMD won't release the source code. AMDVLK is AMD's open source Vulkan driver. RADV is the communities open source Vulkan driver with ACO being a project that Valve is donating their resources towards helping improve performance. BTW, Valve is not done with SteamOS and Linux gaming. When ACO is finished then RADV will probably be the better performing Vulkan driver for AMD users on Linux. In fact ACO can be even used for AMD's OpenGL driver to further improve its performance.

Exactly how many people from the community you see helping AMD/Intel improving their graphics driver on Windows by donating code? I'll give you a hint, it isn't greater than zero.
 
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