Red Dead Redemption 2 shown running faster on Linux than Windows 10

erek

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Excited?

"The benchmark results show RDR2 using the Vulkan API running faster in Linux than either Vulkan or DirectX 12 versions in Windows 10. At the widest gap, there is a 10 frames per second difference, with around a 14 percent advantage in favor of Linux.

One of the people who commented on the video claim "the benchmark results imitate what I got on Far Cry 5 using an RX5700," with the performance being a little better in Linux compared to Windows 10.

That's interesting, even if anecdotal. Incidentally, Linus Tech Tips also recently took a look at gaming on Linux and found that the experience is better than ever, though he didn't dive into benchmark comparisons."


https://www.pcgamer.com/red-dead-redemption-2-shown-running-faster-on-linux-than-windows-10/
 

kirbyrj

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I generally get better results running vulkan with my 5700 in Windows also, but the fact remains not every game I play runs vulkan (so I still need Windows). Also, not every game runs better in vulkan than DX.
 
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DukenukemX

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I generally get better results running vulkan with my 5700 in Windows also, but the fact remains not every game I play runs vulkan (so I still need Windows). Also, not every game runs better in vulkan than DX.
In Linux, everything runs Vulkans. EVERYTHING!
 

Zarathustra[H]

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That's pretty remarkable.

It wasn't that long ago Phoronix did a Linux Windows gaming comparison showing HUGE average deficits in Linux, in many cases 25-50% slower. This wasn't unexpected in games running under wine/dxvk, as emulation/translation layers are never perfect, but even native ports were a huge disappointment.

Now what I am trying to get a understanding of is how much of a corner case this is. Is this just an oddball title with very specific hardware, or can we expect performance parity on average (and advantages in some cases) on AMD and Nvidia hardware in most titles now?

It might be time to retire the good old Windows dual boot.

In Linux, everything runs Vulkans. EVERYTHING!
In most cases via the DXVK translation layer, and translation layers almost always have performance and compatibility implications.
 

LodeRunner

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So, what I don't see here is the settings that were used. Am I just being blind? One would assume equal, or at least equivalent, settings were used, but without it being documented I can't say. I would certainly be interested in a platform with no licensing cost to me that also yields better performance.
 

defaultluser

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I assume you can't recreate this event running Nvidia's hardware?

The "Miracle" of better Linux performance simply comes down to how much time the developer spent optimizing their hardware interface for AMD graphics cards in the Windows Vulkan port versus the Linux port. It also helps that AMD has outsourced it's graphics driver development on that platform, so of course a year later it's now better-performning (that's the other half of making hardware-access drivers work well).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they did the Vulkan port for AMD on Windows, then a few months later they did the Vukan for Linux, with lessons learned. I doubt they updated the Windows version in the process (hey, that costs money!).

Show it to me running on Nvidia as well, in multiple games, and I'll believe the Linux is faster hype :D
 
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Krenum

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A step in the right direction. I hope performance on Linux continues to shine. Great alternative to the system hog that is Windows. Screw paying $100 dollars for a key and having to call Micro$oft every time you have a system hardware change.
 

DrezKill

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I think I remember seeing a few years ago that some of the Metro games ran better on Linux than on Windows too. Don't recall where I saw that though.
 

cybereality

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It's for real, and it's not just one game.

Most of the time I am getting comparable performance in Linux versus Windows.

I think some games are plus or minus a few fps but in the same range.

I've only been seriously gaming in Linux for a little over a year, so I'm not sure how bad it was historically. But it seems okay now.

The only major issue is that not every game works 100% out-of-box. Many (most?) do with no problem.

Enough work that it's not a problem though and, worst case, I can boot into Windows (for example, to play Control since RT isn't in WINE yet).
 

deruberhanyok

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Surprised there’s no PCMR types in here yet proclaiming the superiority of windows.

ive been playing pc games on Linux for a couple years now - just one windows PC left in the house and it’s the one we use for video calls, so I just haven’t got around to putting Ubuntu on it.

If the game is on Steam it’s just as easy to install and play as it is in windows; if not it is definitely more involved, but there are applications like Lutris you can install that help to handle all the complicated stuff at least (like setting up wine and enabling dxvk, etc).

performance has always been the big advantage, but with dxvk improving performance for some games, and more games being easily supported by wine / proton, and drivers continually improving, it has been a slow but steady improvement there too.
 

AVATARAT

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Seems interesting but not enough to give it a try (again).

Gaming industry is industry that create games for money, if there is a way to do it on Linux, Linux will become platform for that and will support many games in future. But if they continue to cannot make money, Linux will continue to be just for enthusiast and testers as it is at moment (I talk about home users).
 

ManofGod

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This does not really mean a dang thing since I am unable to get it to run. I installed the modified proton build but, it does not show up in Lutris, at all. Sure, it shows up in Steam but, that is useless for this, since I purchased the Rockstar Store version, which will have to run through Lutris. Also, no one offered any help or solution, although I did reach out and ask.
 

ManofGod

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A step in the right direction. I hope performance on Linux continues to shine. Great alternative to the system hog that is Windows. Screw paying $100 dollars for a key and having to call Micro$oft every time you have a system hardware change.
More like a stumble in the right direction since, unless you are using the Steam version, good luck.
 

Criticalhitkoala

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A step in the right direction. I hope performance on Linux continues to shine. Great alternative to the system hog that is Windows. Screw paying $100 dollars for a key and having to call Micro$oft every time you have a system hardware change.
You can get keys from [H] members for Windows for $6~$10. From my experience keys with the trusted computer thing, Windows keys have been pretty much attached to a machine which has helped resell value for me also. And it's easy just to get another key with a new system. Windows might be a system hog to those who really nit pick about the fine details, but for those who want to play games and just do general clean up and maintenence to keep their machine running incredibly well....I don't think Windows is a bad thing.

If this is a victory to Linux users though, that's awesome. Linux gaming would be a wonderful thing to see increase. The state of it for things like SteamOS and so forth about 3~4 years ago was Meh, and I haven't looked at it since cause it was pretty inconvenient.
 

ChadD

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I assume you can't recreate this event running Nvidia's hardware?

The "Miracle" of better Linux performance simply comes down to how much time the developer spent optimizing their hardware interface for AMD graphics cards in the Windows Vulkan port versus the Linux port. It also helps that AMD has outsourced it's graphics driver development on that platform, so of course a year later it's now better-performning (that's the other half of making hardware-access drivers work well).

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they did the Vulkan port for AMD on Windows, then a few months later they did the Vukan for Linux, with lessons learned. I doubt they updated the Windows version in the process (hey, that costs money!).

Show it to me running on Nvidia as well, in multiple games, and I'll believe the Linux is faster hype :D
This has nothing to do with Linux or Rockstar. This isn't a port.

This is running windows code (RD running the vulcan path) in Linux via Wine (Linux open windows api). By running native Vulcan there is no need of DXVK (directx->Vulcan translation layer) there for this is comparing the Microsoft closed source windows API (windows 10) vs the Linux windows open source clean roomed API (wine).

Wine almost always runs windows code faster then windows..... although no one will deny its not 100% compatible. Wine ignores some pretty terrible performance killing crap game developers like to use like low level DRM that MS allows to talk directly to their kernel. Linux will never allow userland software to talk directly to the kernel. The wine team has found interesting ways to keep those bits of code happy while not really allowing them to Screw with anything low level. (in some cases... some games with DRM work some will not... Wine and Valve are constantly updating the wine code adding support)

So if your comparing a game that is running in wine/vulcan vs one running windows native... yes Linux will almost always be faster if for no other reason then its sending the DRM software into a userland loop of some kind instead of letting it mess with the kernel and degrade performance, and its also potentially doing the same for anti cheat type stuff. Anti cheat and DRM are pretty much the only reason at this point that some games will not run on Linux. With out DRM or Anticheat basically every windows software would run under Linux... some slightly slower some slightly faster depending on what parts of the windows API they use. Crap software on windows that tries to talk directly to their kernel is the main issue. Comes down to Microsfts lax take on OS security. If Microsoft had a real operating system that would never allow a program to hook itself into the OS at a kernel level.... Linux would have had 100% compatibility ages ago already.
 

ChadD

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Doesn't RDR2 have DRM?
The wine/Valve guys have found away to send some of them into time sinks.... not touching anything kernel of course. Wine has no ability to link to kernel level stuff.

My semi educated guess as to why RD2 may be a bit faster on Linux right now... it would be mainly that. Linux is stopping the DRM from really degrading performance. There may be more to it... but I'm sure if its running 8-10% faster in Linux 3/4 of that gain comes from sending the DRM into a userland loop of some kind. Clearly it works so it thinks its doing what it was designed to do... but I'm sure its busy doing a lot of nothing under Linux.
 

HeadRusch

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So if its getting better performance on Linux by bypassing security measures, you think more devs are going to embrace it or actively work against it now............
 

IdiotInCharge

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Normally, I'd just blame crappy AMD drivers. But for their drivers to somehow be less crappy on Linux...

;)
 

socK

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This has nothing to do with Linux or Rockstar. This isn't a port.

This is running windows code (RD running the vulcan path) in Linux via Wine (Linux open windows api). By running native Vulcan there is no need of DXVK (directx->Vulcan translation layer) there for this is comparing the Microsoft closed source windows API (windows 10) vs the Linux windows open source clean roomed API (wine).

Wine almost always runs windows code faster then windows..... although no one will deny its not 100% compatible. Wine ignores some pretty terrible performance killing crap game developers like to use like low level DRM that MS allows to talk directly to their kernel. Linux will never allow userland software to talk directly to the kernel. The wine team has found interesting ways to keep those bits of code happy while not really allowing them to Screw with anything low level. (in some cases... some games with DRM work some will not... Wine and Valve are constantly updating the wine code adding support)

So if your comparing a game that is running in wine/vulcan vs one running windows native... yes Linux will almost always be faster if for no other reason then its sending the DRM software into a userland loop of some kind instead of letting it mess with the kernel and degrade performance, and its also potentially doing the same for anti cheat type stuff. Anti cheat and DRM are pretty much the only reason at this point that some games will not run on Linux. With out DRM or Anticheat basically every windows software would run under Linux... some slightly slower some slightly faster depending on what parts of the windows API they use. Crap software on windows that tries to talk directly to their kernel is the main issue. Comes down to Microsfts lax take on OS security. If Microsoft had a real operating system that would never allow a program to hook itself into the OS at a kernel level.... Linux would have had 100% compatibility ages ago already.
Uhhh, you don't get to arbitrarily escalate to kernel mode in Windows. You need a driver, which you as the administrator allowed to be installed.
 

ChadD

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So if its getting better performance on Linux by bypassing security measures, you think more devs are going to embrace it or actively work against it now............
Security ?
... better performance on Linux by bypassing security measures.
We could add that to Websters as a in use example under the definition of Oxymoron.

Will they actively work against Linux... ya they have been. This isn't a new thing... many games with Vulcan paths run faster under Linux and its not just a AMD thing. DRM is a performance killer and a Anti Consumer security hole.

Valve offers DRM for free to any developer that wants to use it that works in userland and is 100% compliant with the proper way Linux (and Apple frankly) do things. The game publishers prefer their own black ops versions... just pray they don't alter the deal any further MS allows them to pretty much get anything they want from your OS.
 

ChadD

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Uhhh, you don't get to arbitrarily escalate to kernel mode in Windows. You need a driver, which you as the administrator allowed to be installed.
Users should not be allowed to install such things... that is MS fault. No company should have ever been allowed to get into their heads that if they force a consumer to click accept the keys are now theirs. MS has allowed that. First with incompetence and later as a willful choice when they added the ability to disallow it and put a end round in.

I doubt enough people will stop buying video games with draconian DRM schemes for the Ubisofts of the world to reconsider. They have little reason to abandon them. IMO all games should be DRM free... wtf is the point of DRM anyway. I can't think of more then 1 or 2 titles in the 1000s of AAA titles released every year that aren't cracked in the first couple days of their release anyway. DRM doesn't protect sales anyone claiming it does is full of shit... so that only leaves one logical reason all the major publishers love their system compromising software. Paying customers shouldn't have to find DRM cracks to get decent performance out of their purchases.... and frankly as a Linux user I can tell you its often easier to just crack games before running them in wine as well. The wine guys have been good fixing some of the broken DRM stuff... but 9 times out of 10 its just easier to crack it and have it run properly.
 

vegeta535

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Security ?
... better performance on Linux by bypassing security measures.
We could add that to Websters as a in use example under the definition of Oxymoron.

Will they actively work against Linux... ya they have been. This isn't a new thing... many games with Vulcan paths run faster under Linux and its not just a AMD thing. DRM is a performance killer and a Anti Consumer security hole.

Valve offers DRM for free to any developer that wants to use it that works in userland and is 100% compliant with the proper way Linux (and Apple frankly) do things. The game publishers prefer their own black ops versions... just pray they don't alter the deal any further MS allows them to pretty much get anything they want from your OS.
Yea steam DRM gets cracked the day the game is released. What ever RS using for RDR2 still hasn't been cracked.
 
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No one cares about you minority crusade...the majority of Windows users don't care about linux...never will.
Funny how you care about what windows users think and feel.

/out
I'm a windows exclusive player, but that's because of laziness. Work has given me the opportunity to get more comfortable with Linux so for me gaming habits are going to start changing in favor of Linux. I do have my own dual boot Ubuntu install on my gaming PC. Anyways the more Linux makes success the more MS will cater to gamers which is a win for windows gamers too.
 

socK

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Users should not be allowed to install such things... that is MS fault. No company should have ever been allowed to get into their heads that if they force a consumer to click accept the keys are now theirs. MS has allowed that. First with incompetence and later as a willful choice when they added the ability to disallow it and put a end round in.
Users can't, administrators can.

If you elevate privilege and do something dumb, there's nobody to blame but yourself.
 

Aegir

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I can't wait to switch to Linux.
I've always experimented with it, but I always return to Windows for that nice, padded experience.

But Linux is certainly advancing more and more each day.

Go and try a modern Linux distro and then post a review of your experience.
 

UltraTaco

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A step in the right direction. I hope performance on Linux continues to shine. Great alternative to the system hog that is Windows. Screw paying $100 dollars for a key and having to call Micro$oft every time you have a system hardware change.
You buy a new motherboard every few weeks? Because changing a hard drive, cpu, or gpu doesn't trigger that.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Users can't, administrators can.

If you elevate privilege and do something dumb, there's nobody to blame but yourself.

On most home machines (where most games are played and media consumed on PC's) the user is the administrator.

Since the OS allows for this it allows the game vendors to me the demand. Install our garbage or you can't run our game.

If that function were absent from the OS they couldn't make that demand, and life would be better for all users.

Otherwise as a more capable user who cares about these things you have to rely on the lowest common denominator to actually give a shit (unlikely) or just miss out on a large number of titles, which isn't cool.
 

socK

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On most home machines (where most games are played and media consumed on PC's) the user is the administrator.

Since the OS allows for this it allows the game vendors to me the demand. Install our garbage or you can't run our game.

If that function were absent from the OS they couldn't make that demand, and life would be better for all users.

Otherwise as a more capable user who cares about these things you have to rely on the lowest common denominator to actually give a shit (unlikely) or just miss out on a large number of titles, which isn't cool.
If you want to implement a stricter elevation, create a privileged account and demote your own. Takes all of 30 seconds.

Most Linux distros are nice enough to ask if you want to throw your own account in the sudoers group at install, which I agree is better behavior.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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If you want to implement a stricter elevation, create a privileged account and demote your own. Takes all of 30 seconds.

Most Linux distros are nice enough to ask if you want to throw your own account in the sudoers group at install, which I agree is better behavior.
It's not about what you CAN do. I know how privileges work, and in the name of security I have maintained separate administrative accounts for years, which I only use when I need to configure something.

That isn't the point here.

The problem is that Windows allows direct access to the kernel with admin access, and because of this these shitty software developers can demand that privilege be granted to them in order to run their software. If that weren't possible, they wouldn't be able to demand it.

Windows really ought to exercise much more strict separation of user space and kernel space, to the point where this is not posible with any level of privilege.
 

Stoly

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A step in the right direction. I hope performance on Linux continues to shine. Great alternative to the system hog that is Windows. Screw paying $100 dollars for a key and having to call Micro$oft every time you have a system hardware change.
I can't remember when was the last time I had to call MS to reactivate Windows.
 

socK

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You cannot call the underlying kernel API outside of a driver. Doesn't matter if you're Administrator.

At that point, why would you not be free to install a driver or do whatever the fuck you want to the system? You elevated, you own it.

In Linux you can just go sudo dd over some memory and panic your kernel in one line.
 

ManofGod

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It's not about what you CAN do. I know how privileges work, and in the name of security I have maintained separate administrative accounts for years, which I only use when I need to configure something.

That isn't the point here.

The problem is that Windows allows direct access to the kernel with admin access, and because of this these shitty software developers can demand that privilege be granted to them in order to run their software. If that weren't possible, they wouldn't be able to demand it.

Windows really ought to exercise much more strict separation of user space and kernel space, to the point where this is not posible with any level of privilege.
So, how do you suggest they do that well also maintaining backwards compatibility spanning 30 or so years?
 

ChadD

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Users can't, administrators can.

If you elevate privilege and do something dumb, there's nobody to blame but yourself.
Do something dumb... you mean like install a modern AAA game. ok
 
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