Recon3D Fatality Professional/Champion Reviews??

DualOwn said:
you mean like the Asus, HT sound cards? and all the awesome DAC units?

yeah, you're right, by your logic everything does stink and the Recond 3d that im using and very impressed with is useless until review samples are send out.

Genius.
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Would you care to give specific examples of Asus refreshing their entire lineup without sending out one review sample? HT doesn't really advertise to gamers like Creative and Asus do. Creative has sent out review samples for every other card just look at the stickys at the top of this very forum, why not with the Recon 3d?

Do you want to have an intelligent discussion or just throw out insults? Typical fanboy.
 
DualOwn said:
you mean like the Asus, HT sound cards? and all the awesome DAC units?

yeah, you're right, by your logic everything does stink and the Recond 3d that im using and very impressed with is useless until review samples are send out.

Genius.
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If you are impressed with it that is fine. I personally want to see more than 1 persons opinion on something I am going to drop £100-150 on, rather than diving headlong into something. If they don't send out review samples, that makes it very hard.

Long story short, I tried modding my X-fi fatality card, as at the time I was using digital out to my hifi, not the analog side (so could live without it), the mod didn't go so good, so the analog out doesn't work anymore. The card continued to work for maybe 2 more years, then just stopped working. I believe it may of got a drop from my old WC onto it, the back looked a bit funny, but the paper wasn't discoloured (I used blue anti-freeze in the mix). So I have a dead old X-fi.

However, if the reviews are not there to read, would rather drop some dosh on something I know performs well, over something that is an unknown. A lot of the other cards have a "reputation" and I would rather go with one of those.
 
Liggywuh said:
But seriously, I am wondering which way to take with a soundcard, I am using onboard, and would really prefer to have a PCI-e card, have 1 slot free above the video cards, and 1 below, I have 1 PCI card slot, but that is right below the top card. Wanting better positional audio for gaming, thinking maybe an X-fi Titanium (maybe HD?), or one of the new Recon cards, or even a STX.

Would like some proper reviews!
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A couple of the Asus cards are PCIe - the DX is, and either the D1 or DS also, can't remember which. I had a DX and was happy with it.
 
Well I went ahead and picked up one of these from the local Tiger Direct store since they had some in stock. I figured if I didn't like it I can throw it in my wife's PC or my backup gaming PC. I replaced my X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro with it and gamed for about 3 hours. I can tell you for sure that gaming on my 5.1 THX Z-5300 speakers the clear winner here is the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. The sounds come across with more crisp and louder sound, I guess from the higher SNR or maybe having a DAC? I tried to get as much as I could out of the settings available but couldn't get it to compare to the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro's output.

This card is a for sure upgrade over on board though, but if you have a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or higher X-Fi card STICK WITH IT! I guess this is the best card to get for $100 but if you plan to upgrade and spend more than that go with a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or another high end X-Fi card that meets your needs.
 
Golbez said:
Well I went ahead and picked up one of these from the local Tiger Direct store since they had some in stock. I figured if I didn't like it I can throw it in my wife's PC or my backup gaming PC. I replaced my X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro with it and gamed for about 3 hours. I can tell you for sure that gaming on my 5.1 THX Z-5300 speakers the clear winner here is the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. The sounds come across with more crisp and louder sound, I guess from the higher SNR or maybe having a DAC? I tried to get as much as I could out of the settings available but couldn't get it to compare to the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro's output.

This card is a for sure upgrade over on board though, but if you have a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or higher X-Fi card STICK WITH IT! I guess this is the best card to get for $100 but if you plan to upgrade and spend more than that go with a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or another high end X-Fi card that meets your needs.
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I'm sure you are probably right. I'm not a fanboy, and I was only using onboard sound so I can't speak for the X-Fi cards vs the Recon3D cards. All I know is this thing blows away onboard sound in all ways, hands down. My Sennheiser HD558's can be heard downstairs at 60% volume or higher. Honestly I've been wearing them around my neck at around 40% while playing TOR and I can hear absolutely everything perfectly. On my head, 30-35% volume is about all I can handle for long periods. Blaster fire and NPC speech is quite loud. I think the recon3d "wins" the contest if you are using headphones. If you are using speakers, it sounds like the X-Fi card is more than likely ahead of the Recon3d. There really isn't another card to put directly against the Recon3D. Yes, you could say the Asus Xonar Essence STX, but it seems to be primarily geared towards music, and not games. It does not have anything like the Scout mode which is AWESOME for games like Counter Strike where hearing footsteps can give you a definitive edge.
 
Golbez said:
Well I went ahead and picked up one of these from the local Tiger Direct store since they had some in stock. I figured if I didn't like it I can throw it in my wife's PC or my backup gaming PC. I replaced my X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro with it and gamed for about 3 hours. I can tell you for sure that gaming on my 5.1 THX Z-5300 speakers the clear winner here is the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. The sounds come across with more crisp and louder sound, I guess from the higher SNR or maybe having a DAC? I tried to get as much as I could out of the settings available but couldn't get it to compare to the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro's output.

This card is a for sure upgrade over on board though, but if you have a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or higher X-Fi card STICK WITH IT! I guess this is the best card to get for $100 but if you plan to upgrade and spend more than that go with a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or another high end X-Fi card that meets your needs.
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Both cards have a DAC, it is that which converts the digital 0's and 1's into an analog signal we can amplify and hear. Were the settings on both cards "the same"?

You didn't have CMSS 3D on one card, and not on the other or anything like that?
 
Well CMSS 3D is only supported on the X-Fi. The Recon3D uses the TruStudio Pro stuff for surround sound, so that's one key big difference between them right there. I did toy around a lot with all the Recon3D settings trying to get them to sound as good.

I think another big difference is the speaker/headphone setup of what people are using. In some instances like any of my 2.1 speakers or my gaming icemat audio headphones that I have I wasn't able to tell that big a difference between my two cards. When it came to my high power THX certified 5.1 speakers you can tell quite a difference between the cards. Granted mine are analog speakers, the DAC on the X-Fi also might have a lot to do with that. The Recon3D does of course have a DAC since it wouldn't be able to put out analog otherwise, but it's "integrated" instead of having a hardware one on the card, which means your CPU is doing all the work instead of the soundcard, as previously mentioned.
 
Golbez said:
Well I went ahead and picked up one of these from the local Tiger Direct store since they had some in stock. I figured if I didn't like it I can throw it in my wife's PC or my backup gaming PC. I replaced my X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro with it and gamed for about 3 hours. I can tell you for sure that gaming on my 5.1 THX Z-5300 speakers the clear winner here is the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. The sounds come across with more crisp and louder sound, I guess from the higher SNR or maybe having a DAC? I tried to get as much as I could out of the settings available but couldn't get it to compare to the X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro's output.

This card is a for sure upgrade over on board though, but if you have a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or higher X-Fi card STICK WITH IT! I guess this is the best card to get for $100 but if you plan to upgrade and spend more than that go with a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro or another high end X-Fi card that meets your needs.
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your story smells very fishy, one has a dac and other doesnt? WHAAAAT?????????????:confused:
 
Saw the Champion version in stock on the Egg last night. This morning it is $26 cheaper!! By end of the month it may be free...
 
Creative's crap capacitor choice does it for me. They filled those cards with the failing, Chinese G-LuXon caps they used on some X-Fi's again. Get the Xonar STX. It's full of Japanese, Nichicon (these are very good) fine-Gold caps. That alone is enough to base your decision on, considering the effect those cheap caps will have over your SQ after a few years, and for the reliability of the card.

Wait... even the PCB looks so poor in comparison. Fuck Creative.

PS-Recon3D%20PCIe_Top.png


large_s_7.jpg
 
johnnydoe said:
Creative's crap capacitor choice does it for me. They filled those cards with the failing, Chinese G-LuXon caps they used on some X-Fi's again. Get the Xonar STX. It's full of Japanese, Nichicon (these are very good) fine-Gold caps. That alone is enough to base your decision on, considering the effect those cheap caps will have over your SQ after a few years, and for the reliability of the card.

Wait... even the PCB looks so poor in comparison. Fuck Creative.

PS-Recon3D%20PCIe_Top.png


large_s_7.jpg
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I would hope that the ASUS would be more reliable. God forbid you have to deal with their tech support. Ever attempt trying to get a replacement for a faulty part? I'll never buy another motherboard from these guys again. That being said, no clue what creatives customer support is like, because I've never had an issue with one of their products breaking or coming DOA.
 
johnnydoe said:
Absolutely, it's way more reliable. It even has film (transistor-like) capacitors backing itself against the cheap liquid caps of the Creative. Many Creative cards died and still keep on to die due to those Jamicon/G-LuXon caps.

BTW, you might want to wait for this. I'm after it from now on. ;)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158389
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That looks very good. Just hope their drivers improve (a lot of people complain about them).
 
johnnydoe said:
Absolutely, it's way more reliable. It even has film (transistor-like) capacitors backing itself against the cheap liquid caps of the Creative. Many Creative cards died and still keep on to die due to those Jamicon/G-LuXon caps.

BTW, you might want to wait for this. I'm after it from now on. ;)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158389
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Ok now that looks freaking awesome. Any release date info on that? I would just give the old card to my brother or something.
 
johnnydoe said:
Absolutely, it's way more reliable. It even has film (transistor-like) capacitors backing itself against the cheap liquid caps of the Creative. Many Creative cards died and still keep on to die due to those Jamicon/G-LuXon caps.

BTW, you might want to wait for this. I'm after it from now on. ;)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158389
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Says:
"Headphone output and microphone output are handled by a Realtek ALC889 codec"

What's up with that?
 
That's a bit messed up, not sure why would they put that chip on it. The C-Media chipset should be able to handle all outputs. But it wouldn't affect all the connectors, could be to add two digital outputs instead of one (to switch between different sound sources).
 
EPOQ said:
Says:
"Headphone output and microphone output are handled by a Realtek ALC889 codec"

What's up with that?
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Where'd you see that? This is all I saw about the Realtek:

The primary DAC for headphone/front-out channel of the ROG Phoebus is TI-BB PCM1792A, with stellar signal-noise ratio (SNR) of 127 dBA. Other main channels are handled by Cirrus Logic, probably the CS5381, with SNR of 120 dBA. There's also a tertiary Realtek ALC889 (110 dBA) CODEC that probably handles an independent set of audio channels, or handles the digital outputs, since it's licensed with a few Dolby technologies. On the AMP side, we spy bleeding-edge OPAMPs, a Texas Instruments 6120A2(?) AMP chip (for the headphones channel), etc.
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johnnydoe said:
Absolutely, it's way more reliable. It even has film (transistor-like) capacitors backing itself against the cheap liquid caps of the Creative. Many Creative cards died and still keep on to die due to those Jamicon/G-LuXon caps.

BTW, you might want to wait for this. I'm after it from now on. ;)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158389
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Its probably going to cost close to three times what the base model recon3d goes for as well. I should hope that its more reliable.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Its probably going to cost close to three times what the base model recon3d goes for as well. I should hope that its more reliable.
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Just by looking at the PCB circuit alone you can tell it's easily more reliable. Having used a Bravura, wouldn't let that Recon or whatever garbage come on top of my board. Compared to the cards such as HT Omega Halo's, or even Creative's own X-Fi Titanium HD, that Recon is built like garbage. Do some research on the capacitors used on them. Add that the PCB is nearly completely empty. It looks like a total waste.
 
The PCB size could've been reduced to fit low profile easily for the general lack on it.
 
johnnydoe said:
Just by looking at the PCB circuit alone you can tell it's easily more reliable. Having used a Bravura, wouldn't let that Recon or whatever garbage come on top of my board. Compared to the cards such as HT Omega Halo's, or even Creative's own X-Fi Titanium HD, that Recon is built like garbage. Do some research on the capacitors used on them. Add that the PCB is nearly completely empty. It looks like a total waste.
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I'm not a pro when it comes to sound cards, and I'm not an audiophile. All I know is switching from the newest Realtek codec on an expensive motherboard, to the Recon3D, absolute huge difference in every way. Also the software and drivers run flawlessly, something that apparently cannot be said of ASUS.
 
EPOQ said:
All I know is switching from the newest Realtek codec on an expensive motherboard, to the Recon3D, absolute huge difference in every way.
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That's true of almost any add-in sound card, and should be especially true of one costing in excess of $100.

EPOQ said:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/22199/asus_unveil_rog_sound_cards_xonar_phoebus_pcie_sound_card_thunderfx_usb_external_sound_card/index.html

It's in this article. Has pictures of the chips.
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It seems improbable that they would put the other high-end components in the card, and then use the Realtek chip for the headphone output. I have an easier time believing the part about using it for Dolby/DTS.
 
Forceman said:
That's true of almost any add-in sound card, and should be especially true of one costing in excess of $100.
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Note I'm using headphones, so only comparable to other sound cards with 600ohm headphone amps. Not to mention the software like Scout Mode which I don't believe anything else has. The card is made for gamers. Yes, music sounds awesome too and the thing is loud as hell on my Sennheiser 558's. But even for a card made for gamers, I noticed a good difference moving from 192kbs to FLAC on most of my albums. With the Realtek I listened to them both and I really didn't hear it.
 
johnnydoe said:
Just by looking at the PCB circuit alone you can tell it's easily more reliable. Having used a Bravura, wouldn't let that Recon or whatever garbage come on top of my board. Compared to the cards such as HT Omega Halo's, or even Creative's own X-Fi Titanium HD, that Recon is built like garbage. Do some research on the capacitors used on them. Add that the PCB is nearly completely empty. It looks like a total waste.
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Yes and in a couple of weeks I bet that it will settle at around $75 which is a lot less than any of the cards that you just mentioned. Its a mainstream sound card and you're comparing it to a $200+ HT omega and a $150 Titanium HD. I think that something like a xonar dx is a more fair comparison.
 
johnnydoe said:
that Recon is built like garbage. Do some research on the capacitors used on them. Add that the PCB is nearly completely empty. It looks like a total waste.
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Recon3d is the best sound card i've used so far, i used numerous creative, asus and ht sound cards.

but you go ahead and troll all you want.
 
I Had fun reading this thread, I found out about that ASUS ROG sound card which is cool. I am surprised ASUS is releasing a new model of soundcard rather than a stand alone Xense. It must be part of the agreement with Sennheiser.

As for the Recon3D, people should not be comparing it to the STX. They are not for the same thing. The Recon3D seems to be all about the various technologies that card supports, like the THX, crystalizer and scout mode etc... If those are what you want then this is the card you want. If you want to listen to Wagner on your 400 dollar headphones or 2000 dollar stereo system, then the Xonar STX is for you.
 
DualOwn said:
THX Surround(Recon3D) is much better than the previous XFi 3DMSS(TitaniumHD) in everything i threw at it, games, music, voice chat, recording, etc.

Recon3d is based on whole new hardware setup, you should read it about it, its a brand new sound processor, and it has 4 dsp's instead of one like from previous sound cards.
.
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Such blatant ignorance.
its a single chip reimplementation of the original Quartet DSP and DAC.
it isn't entirely new hardware.

"quad-core" moniker doesn't refer to there being four processing cores on the sound card, but a set of four DSPs, not necessarily hardware-accelerated
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The Quartet DSP was first introduced on the XFI (http://www.anandtech.com/show/1776/4)


realistically, its not much better than a Soundblaster Live 24bit in its hardware capabilities, given Recon3D entirely lacks the emuXk effects processor

DualOwn said:
ROFL, ROFL, ROFL.

you dont have a clue what you're saying.
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No Sir, that would be YOU.
 
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djoye said:
If the 7.1 model doesn't work with ALchemy (DSound acceleration) then I'm sure as hell not getting it.

I can't get 7.1 in any Valve/Source engine games without ALchemy and, knowing Valve, they probably won't be changing their engine any time soon.
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You seem to be behind on the times, source engine doesn't require alchemy for surround mixing anymore.

Oogle said:
I've been using rightmark 3d sound from the rightmark site to test the 3d audio on my recon3d (non-fatality). It seems like it's hw accelerated. I had to use Alchemy to get it to work though otherwise it wouldn't show the extra devices (e.g. speakers and spdif-out).
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Unfortunately, this isn't the case.
Alchemy can trick a program into believing Hardware Acceleration is available, it does it with XFI MB devices (non creative sound drivers such as the AD SoundMAX on certain Asus mainboards) via the Software AL device

There is no way of knowing if the native Creative openal device on the system is hardware accelerated or not, i would believe not, as the processing of hardware accelerated al and effects were handled by the Emu2k effects processor which this sound card does not have.
 
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diceman2037 said:
Such blatant ignorance.
its a single chip reimplementation of the original Quartet DSP and DAC.
it isn't entirely new hardware.




The Quartet DSP was first introduced on the XFI (http://www.anandtech.com/show/1776/4)


realistically, its not much better than a Soundblaster Live 24bit in its hardware capabilities, given Recon3D entirely lacks the emuXk effects processor



No Sir, that would be YOU.
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wrong, wrong and wrong.
 
I guess we're going to have to bust out the wikipedia on this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundblaster#Sound_Blaster_Recon3D

The Recon3D series were released in August 2011 and include PCI Express x1 cards such as Recon3D PCIe, Recon3D Fatal1ty Professional and Recon3D Fatal1ty Champion. The cards use the new integrated Sound Core3D chip, which features the Quartet DSP from the X-Fi series as well as integrated DAC, ADC and I/O interface in a 56-pin package.
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I also put the integrated DAC in italics for whoever didn't believe this was the case on the Recon3D. If you don't have high end headphones or speakers to push with your soundcard you should be happy with it. I didn't notice a difference until I was using 200watt THX certified surround sound speakers.

Please show us your evidence otherwise, I would tend to believe Anand and Wiki over some dude on a forum.
 
diceman2037 said:
You seem to be behind on the times, source engine doesn't require alchemy for surround mixing anymore.
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I know that Source engine will do 5.1 surround in Windows 7 without ALchemy but if you want 7.1 surround you must use ALchemy, use "snd_legacy_surround 1" in the game's console, and restart the game to make it work properly.

I know because I've experimented with it lately from Half-Life 2 all the way to Portal 2. I haven't played DOTA 2, though.

I think the Source engine is using an antiquated version of Miles Sound System and even though the options have 7.1 shown it doesn't work; I'm guessing it only works properly in Windows XP without the help of ALchemy and snd_legacy_surround.
 
Golbez said:
I guess we're going to have to bust out the wikipedia on this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundblaster#Sound_Blaster_Recon3D



I also put the integrated DAC in italics for whoever didn't believe this was the case on the Recon3D. If you don't have high end headphones or speakers to push with your soundcard you should be happy with it. I didn't notice a difference until I was using 200watt THX certified surround sound speakers.

Please show us your evidence otherwise, I would tend to believe Anand and Wiki over some dude on a forum.
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going by that logic every Intel "quad core" cpu's are the same because it has a word "quad", rofl.

Quartet DSP in recon 3d is a much improved design over the older X-FI model from 2005.

Quartet only means that the DSP is broken up into numerous segments, it doesnt mean that the Quartet tech in X-fi from 2005 is the same as in today's Recon3d, rofl.

do you have any common sense about tech?
 
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djoye said:
I know that Source engine will do 5.1 surround in Windows 7 without ALchemy but if you want 7.1 surround you must use ALchemy, use "snd_legacy_surround 1" in the game's console, and restart the game to make it work properly.

I know because I've experimented with it lately from Half-Life 2 all the way to Portal 2. I haven't played DOTA 2, though.

I think the Source engine is using an antiquated version of Miles Sound System and even though the options have 7.1 shown it doesn't work; I'm guessing it only works properly in Windows XP without the help of ALchemy and snd_legacy_surround.
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Alchemy fakes the 7.1, do a positional audio test with it and you'll find the rear and sides are outputting the same stuff when alchemy is used :(

Quartet DSP in recon 3d is a much improved design over the older X-FI model from 2005.
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No, its exactly the same.

Creative aren't the saints you believe them to be. If they can get away with shrinking the Quartet in its original form down and slamming it together with an SoC DAC/ADC and IO bridge, be sure they will do it, sell it at a premium and be sure as to not directly identify key differences. You had to dig hard on their website to even find that comparison jpg which identifies the lack of accelerated openal and directsound.

Many a person has been stung by Creatives marketting practices, with the SB Live 24bit (no emu10k1 processor) and the audigy value (cmedia dsp and no emu10k2 processor) and the Xtreme Audio (cmedia dsp and no emu20k1 processor)

do you have any common sense about tech?
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hey, you're the kind of guy that believes politicians when they promise the world, aren't you :|
 
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Come on guys most of you are not proving anything and just going back and forth "yes it is, no its not. yes it is, no its not". And since NO ONE knows whats inside the chip (yet) let it go lol

Then some toss in the word "audiophile" .. now if you really are a "audiophile" you would not be using any of these cards you listed. They all can go in the same bag.

People buying Recon3d is for mostly playing games and listening to music. Which is does a great job. And really? Most people could careless if its 100 or 120 db dac's.

So if your playing allot of games using your mic this is a great card.. price might be a tad high but the drivers are spot on. I have 3 pc's and two using x-fi and man drives mess up all the time.

Anyway I know people would like to believe as times change you can just have one chip and its the same.. lol not even close. Got to admit Creative did a awesome job with one chip.. pop off that red plastic and the chip is really small..

Oh and where did Creative say this is one of or the BEST EVER MUSIC GAMER card? Never..

just my 2 cents..
 
diceman2037 said:
Alchemy fakes the 7.1, do a positional audio test with it and you'll find the rear and sides are outputting the same stuff when alchemy is used :(
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When playing a game using ALchemy and I move around a static object making a sound, the sound from that object moves discretely between all 7 speakers. Some games just don't support 7.1 at all, ALchemy doesn't up-mix those games to 7.1, they stay 5.1 even when using ALchemy. I don't use virtual surround or up-mixing.

ALchemy's purpose is to restore the DirectSound functionality that was removed in Vista/7, not to up-mix or do virtual surround. If a game used DirectSound for surround sound and it worked properly in XP, there's a good chance that it won't properly do surround sound in Vista/7 so ALchemy intercepts the game's DirectSound calls (that Vista/7 would otherwise ignore) and properly directs them to the sound card to restore that surround and EAX functionality in Vista/7.

I used ALchemy with Rightmark 3D sound test and it properly plays sound in each individual channel.

If you have ever had ALchemy output to the side and rear channels simultaneously in what should have been a discrete/individual channel test then perhaps your equipment was configured incorrectly.

ALchemy is not up-mixing software.
 
Hey guys I've read this thread and have a related question. I have sen 555s and play quite a bit of games. I have an old Audigy2 ZS from years ago and a set of klipsch promedia 2.1s I play my games with the headphones and can't really any difference between the onboard Realtek sound of my P67 Pro or via my Audigy2 ZS.

I think my headphones plugged into my klipsch sound better but is that because the klipsch amp is driving the headphones or would a dedicated sound card amp like the recon3d be a good upgrade?
 
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