recommendation for a UPS (uninterruptible power supply)

cmge

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so ive been contemplating lately in getting a UPS for both my desktop and home server.. the specs as follows:

desktop
i7 3770k @ 3.5ghz
asus p8z68-v
corsair 16gb ddr3 1600
msi gtx 680 lighting
x-fi fatal1ty titanium champion
dvd writer
2x SSD (128gb and 256gb)
1x wd black 2tb
corsair ax850

server
i3 3220 @ 3.3ghz
asus p8h77-i
kingston 8gb ddr3 1600
5x 4tb 5400rpm
(planning on adding 2 more 5400rpm drives and 2 laptop drives 5400rpm)
corsair 500m



id like to plug them in the same UPS if possible and just really want them to shutdown properly in case of power outtage.. not really sure which brand to go for APC or Cyberpower or etc.

also would it be recommended to have UPS for a home theatre setup? or will a surge protector suffice?

any recommendation would be appreciated... thanks
 
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blazemonkey

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Definitely look for a full sine-wave UPS as most PC PSU's will not work otherwise. If you have the cash, I would suggest APC over cyberpower as the latter seem to be cheaply made. That being said, I've had two Cyberpower CP1350PFCLCD's running 24/7 for two years now, and they do work fine. The batteries seem to be in good shape too. You might have luck finding a quality used one for cheap, especially if the batteries are dead. They shouldn't cost much to replace.
 

Nexillus

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I would second the notion of getting APC over cyberpower. I have 2x APC for the last year and they have been rock solid.

For recommendations, we need the PSU being used on both the computer and server. (didn't see it on the list)

Second, it would probably be cheaper to purchase two seperate units depending on overall usage. As I know mine is a 865watt and ran me about $180.
 

FnordMan

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Definitely look for a full sine-wave UPS as most PC PSU's will not work otherwise.
Got a source for that? Aka: I don't believe you, every last one of my UPSes are stepped approximation and i've had zilch problems with any PSU plugged into them.
 

StoleMyOwnCar

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I'm using a used APC SUA1500 that I got off Ebay for 125 bucks with the battery. I had to replace the battery recently, but that was after 8+ months of problem free operation. IMO it's a pretty good deal. Puts out pure sine wave so you don't have to worry about it, and it's a very reliable UPS. These things are probably built like tanks and last for tens of years if I had to guess.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-Smart-U...erruptible_Power_Supplies&hash=item2a409d66af

Here's one. You'll have to replace the battery though.
 

Pylor

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From what I've read, I don't believe a pure sine wave is necessary for anything other than extremely sensitive equipment. People have debated it for years though, just google it and you'll see threads going back 6 or 7 years. I've always used APC line interactive, stepped sine approximation UPSes and I've never had any issues. I've also worked for 2 companies that used small APC UPSes exclusively (talking 1000s of these things) and there was never a single instance that they ever mentioned a problem had occurred due to the UPS. Nor did I ever see any issues (other than them beeping at people for new/low batteries) with the devices.

I currently use an APC BR1300G with my desktop and server listed below. I've never had any issues with it or an older APC UPS from ~6 years ago (aside from the batteries dying in it, but that's expected). The ethernet->USB cable can be plugged into a computer and from there (atleast in Windows) it will detect the UPS and you can setup power options. I have my server set to shutoff if the UPS gets to 50% or lower, and my desktop is never on unless I'm actually there for the most part so that's not an issue.

That being said, the cyberpower UPSes claim pure sine output. Never used one but if I were to get a new one today I'd give them a try.
 
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cmge

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For recommendations, we need the PSU being used on both the computer and server. (didn't see it on the list)

my mistake. :S

i added the PSU to the specs list. corsair AX850 for the desktop and CX500M for the server
 

Nexillus

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I would recommend two seperate ones. I'm guesing you use 75% at MOST at load for your PSU

For the AX850 If you know you do not use a load above 780 watts you can get away with this one to save about $30. I personally would recommend the first one if you want to extend time as you can plug a external battery pack to it to add more time.
For the 500m.

Also know that surge protection on most consumer UPS do suck, so I plug mine into a surge protector to give protection from lightning strikes. It says not too but only has 300-400 joules protection for a lightening strike is just terrible.
 

dandragonrage

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APC's Back-UPS line is no better than Cyberpower or other less trusted brands... If anything, Cyberpower might be better than APC Back-UPS.

I recommend a Liebert Powersure for an entry-level transformerless UPS, or something made by Eaton for a higher-end unit, including some Dell models which were made by Eaton. Liebert GXT2/3 are also good but I think they are only in rack form factor and they are loud. But I did use a GXT2 in my bedroom for a while with a fan mod.

Honestly I don't even recommend APC Smart-UPS when you could just get a still-better Liebert or Eaton...
 

StoleMyOwnCar

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How much better are those Eatons and Lieberts than APC's Smart-UPS line? I'll note that with the current going price on Ebay for a used SUA1500 (which is what I got), you can get an SUA1500 + a brand new battery for it for <200$. Most of those models you linked that I looked up were 400-1000$+, if they were even in stock (most are discontinued).
 

drescherjm

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I use these:

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...=UTF8&qid=1406144668&sr=8-2&keywords=sine+ups

They are "simulated" sine waves but user-uploaded oscilloscope photos show it pretty damn clean looking.

I agree that APC makes a higher quality unit.... but that's really relative to your needs. No similar APC unit exists (to my knowledge) and the next step up would cost nearly double.

These do cost a little more than what I expect to pay for a refurbished SmartUPS 1500 units (eBay / RefirbUPS ...) with new batteries. These are server grade and have 2 times the battery capacity. But not as energy efficient.
 

faugusztin

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desktop - unless you missed the graphics card that setup won't go near the 200W with full CPU load
server - might peak around 200W at boot (2A per drive x 7 drives x 12 volts = 168W for HDD spinup), otherwise you are well bellow 150W with full CPU load.

That means you would ideally need a 400W (650VA) UPS or better. Even if you missed the graphics card from your initial setup, i don't think you will have to go above 500W (850VA) UPS.

Considering my experiences with cheap APC BackUPS and Eaton Ellipse UPS, i would recommend you to get Eaton for one simple reason - Eaton has better reporting than APC. Both are highend UPS brands, but the cheap APC units report UPS load information only when the input power is missing; Eaton reports it all the time. So with APC, you are unlikely to create charts like this one :) :
nutups2_eaton_charge-day.png
 

dandragonrage

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How much better are those Eatons and Lieberts than APC's Smart-UPS line? I'll note that with the current going price on Ebay for a used SUA1500 (which is what I got), you can get an SUA1500 + a brand new battery for it for <200$. Most of those models you linked that I looked up were 400-1000$+, if they were even in stock (most are discontinued).

I have a Dell 1000W (yeah, watt, not VA) Eaton-made unit that I got for something like $125 that I like. I bought a Liebert Powesure (I think it was a PSa) 1000VA on Amazon for under $100... basic but I trust it. The one I had before was a GXT2 1500VA which was great but too loud (fanmod was fine... 2 or 3 80mm case fans in there). The GXT2 is enterprise-grade whereas the Powersure is consumer-grade. I use my Powersure for my game consoles and stuff and the Dell for my PC.

Batteries in our higher-end Eaton units at work have been lasting a lot longer than the APC units they've replaced.

I also found my APC SUA2200XL to be absolutely useless in a power failure (Hurricane Irene a few years ago knocked out my power for something like 5 days) because it refuses to work without draining your batteries down as a calibration... I was able to charge 2 car batteries elsewhere and bring them home, but I could only use them with a small 150W inverter I had because the SUA2200XL just refused to do anything without draining them back down for calibration. And yes the voltage was correct (and they weren't stupid gel cells which use different voltages). I want power in an emergency more than I want to have an accurate estimate for runtime... Seriously? And our units at work always wanted calibrations (to the point that they became disruptive) as well.

I've also actually read more bad stuff about APC than most other brands lately. But after the calibration issues... never again. I've never had another brand of UPS refuse to work without a calibration.
 

StoleMyOwnCar

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Batteries lasting longer could be due to anything, such as you having less power failures.

It sounds to me like you just had a bad experience with that SUA2200XL and you're letting it color your view on the brand as a whole. I haven't had any issues with my SUA1500 working. I did several tests with it right after I got it with the battery it already had in it... worked fine. I had some short (1-2 second) power outages that happened recently after I installed the new battery. Again, absolutely no issues. Protected everything hooked into it (which is a hell of a lot) just fine in both cases. Fan kicked up every time, that showed that it was definitely working. The USB out lets my computer know how long it has, too. It does estimates on the fly instead of doing calibrations.

Also not sure why you're emphasizing the 1000W. The SUA1500 provides 980W, which is just 20 below that. That being said, sounds like you got a good deal on that Eaton unit, supposing it's really enterprise grade. My main point is simply that these Smart-UPS units are widely available on Ebay and if you look hard you can get a good deal and pick up a battery to go with it for <180-200$ total. And they're enterprise-grade, too. The price for these used units is less than the inferior mainstream brands out for sale right now.
 

Zepher

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I would use 2 UPS units as I am not sure how easy it is to make the main rig tell the server to shut down when there is an extended power outage..
My APC 1300 ups only communicates with my main rig so the main rig can be shut down with the APC software.
My main rig, htpc, xbox 360, Alesis powered speakers, 3 monitors, switch router and modem, run off of the APC 1300.
 

faugusztin

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I would use 2 UPS units as I am not sure how easy it is to make the main rig tell the server to shut down when there is an extended power outage..
My APC 1300 ups only communicates with my main rig so the main rig can be shut down with the APC software.
My main rig, htpc, xbox 360, Alesis powered speakers, 3 monitors, switch router and modem, run off of the APC 1300.

Depends on the OS/software used. But if he uses NUT ( http://www.networkupstools.org/ ) he can just inform the client running on the other computer that UPS is in battery mode, switch off.
 

blazemonkey

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Got a source for that? Aka: I don't believe you, every last one of my UPSes are stepped approximation and i've had zilch problems with any PSU plugged into them.

Yes, I do. This has been a well known fact for quite a long time. Many highend PSU's have active PFC components which do not work well with non-sine wave power sources. Here is the manual for the PSU in my signature which specifically states that it is not compatible with non-sinewave UPS's, and I have unfortunately confirmed this when I bought one. Also, my Antec earthwatts 500w PSU would not work with it either. I also have an Antec HCP 1300 which I'm willing to bet isn't compatible either. Of course, the PC's ran fine on that UPS when it was on A/C power, but soon as I flipped the breaker to test the battery function, the Enermax just shut off, and the antec malfunctioned. It didn't harm the PSU's, but it didn't work nonetheless.

Edit: the enermax 720 used to be in my signature.
 

Bluesun311

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K but my Seasonic 1000 Platinum APFC unit does fine with stepped sine wave and the manual doesn't say not to use one. So not all PFC PSUs require pure sine.
 

ep0x73

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Where are Liebert's made?

The one version I looked at states:

Output Waveform: Stepped approximation to a sinewave

Basically the same thing a APC pro does.

Now their $700+ units probably are pure if you have that kind of coin.
 

Nexillus

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K but my Seasonic 1000 Platinum APFC unit does fine with stepped sine wave and the manual doesn't say not to use one. So not all PFC PSUs require pure sine.

Same PSU I have and the other PSU is a 750 Seasonic and neither have had a problem going back and forth between UPS and standard power.
 

Angus

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I have always bought refurbished UPS's with new batteries..

Never had any issues.. I personally bought off upsforless but im sure their are lots of places out there..

I went with all liebert's.. refurbed they weren't that much more.. and I wanted the full sine wave, and also with the true online they are in essence always running through the battery/inverter so this way I can be sure that my power is good..
 

dandragonrage

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Now their $700+ units probably are pure if you have that kind of coin.

You don't seem to understand that nobody here would buy one new. I've seen TONS of GXT2 deals for $100ish and GXT3s can probably be found for $200 or less by this point. There is no reason to make an argument against them based on price when people are comparing used APC prices to new Liebert prices.

To the guy who said I'm applying my opinion of my SUA2200XL to APC as a whole... WTF? I've used at least 3 APC units (not all that unit) that were ridiculous about calibrations, and I've never had this issue with ANY UPS of ANY other brand... My view on APC is 100% valid. Ignore the faults of the product if you want. Hell, assume that I have no idea what I'm doing if you want. But you'd be wrong. People here just love to make excuses for APC. I ranted about my SUA2200XL at the time and lots of people responded telling me that a power protection product can't be relied on in time of power failure. Riiiiight.

Ignore the stupidity and just go for a Liebert or Eaton. They are still better than APC even if you foolishly believe that APC is in the right in regards to calibration.
 
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Mackintire

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The general rule is 1.6 times the wattage that your PC can pull.

The specifics are measuring the power consumption and reading the fine specs of the UPS to determine what will actually last the 10-15 minutes you'll need to properly shut down your PC.

10-15 minutes is the guideline and covers...the windows update you didn't install and provides the required overhead when the batteries are old and not fully charging any more. So the UPS might actually function correctly 4-5 years later when you're supposed to change the batteries.
 

cmge

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sorry guys, i neglected to add which vidcard im running

msi gtx 680 lighting @ stock settings.
 

faugusztin

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@cmge: sub-300W then for your main computer. I got a 2600K/GTX670/watercooling combo, which uses ~240W with furmark and occt running.
 

Pylor

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Ignore the stupidity and just go for a Liebert or Eaton. They are still better than APC even if you foolishly believe that APC is in the right in regards to calibration.

I own two APC units, one is ~6 months old and the other is 4 years (both are BACK-UPS). Neither has required any calibration, ever. We also used to get pallets of UPSes and batteries at my office when I was desktop support (these were cheaper APC UPSes) and never calibrated anything, nor at my other job where we had the SMART-UPS for remote servers. The only time they would beep would be when the battery died after ~4 years of usage. Just saying that different people have different experiences.


As for Liebert and Eaton, I've never used those products so I couldn't comment on them, nor could I comment on buying used/refurbished UPSes. Tbh I wasn't even aware that this was something that people did before this thread.


Also, I've never had any problems with my APC units with either of my power supplies (both happen to be seasonic). I don't have many power outages (really I don't have any at all for the most part), but I've had to shut off my breaker a few times recently and nothing shut down.
 
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ep0x73

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I can't find anywhere on Eaton's site if the S3 or S5 are pure or stepped approximate.
They look like decent units, just odd they offer very little documentation.
Spec and whitepaper doc's say nothing.

The S5 least has VR, not the S3.
 

JJ91284

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I own quite a few and depending on your budget and how much run time you need, it varies on brand.

All of these are pure sine wave units and I feel are one of the best in this price segment. If your looking for a new smaller unit that looks aesthetically pleasing, go for either of these cyberpower units below. If you don't care about aethetics go for the big industrial duty apc smart ups units. The smaller APC units are inferior to the smaller cyberpower units. The Cyber power unit that is good for 900 watts would work for you

Up to 900 watts ( I use this for my Haswell Setup)
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...qid=1408813510&sr=8-3&keywords=cyberpower+ups

Good to 1980W (I use this for my LG OLED Curve, and my Klipsch RF-7 II Home theater setup and have no issues, I also have a nice home theater pc hooked up to this and it works wonderful)

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-PR...813896&sr=8-1&keywords=cyberpower+pr2200lcdsl

Now if you want really durable rack UPS then I'd recommend the APC Smart UPS Line. I use these for work as they are great and quite heavy (around 90 lbs) and are built solid.

An example would be like an APC sua2200rm2u or a sua3000rm2u. I'd look to buy these used on craigslist or ebay and then if the batteries are bad, replace them for $150-$200 (quality B&B batteries, lots of crappy brands that fail at high load) and you'll have a rock solid power supply for years. I have both of these units running 90+ % load for 3 years and no issues.
 

ep0x73

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NE sells the Liebert powersure pure sine but not a single review, odd.
Then again nothing on Amazon either.
Either they are not popular or nobody knows about them?

The price is on par with APC pro which are stepped so in that sense the PSA is a better deal.

2 year warranty is kinda low though.
 

Booyaah

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I'm also looking for a UPS in the $150-$250 price range. I'm pretty sure I have active PFC power supplies. An 850w, 450w, router and switch that I would need to hook up. I don't think my 1000w gaming rig would be on this as it's in another room.

I was kind of wanting something rack mountable. Hard to find a 1500VA 900W for under $400.

Liked this one, but not for a rack: http://bitly.com/CP1500

Was considering this, but it uses simulated sine wave: http://bitly.com/avr1500

I might just end up going with this one: http://bitly.com/CPOR1500
 
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Destruya

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I would recommend two seperate ones. I'm guesing you use 75% at MOST at load for your PSU

For the AX850 If you know you do not use a load above 780 watts you can get away with this one to save about $30. I personally would recommend the first one if you want to extend time as you can plug a external battery pack to it to add more time.
For the 500m.

Also know that surge protection on most consumer UPS do suck, so I plug mine into a surge protector to give protection from lightning strikes. It says not too but only has 300-400 joules protection for a lightening strike is just terrible.

I use the BR1500G with the BR24BPG pack. The 1500G has a three year warranty on it. As soon as you purchase it, contact APC with your date of purchase and serial number, and ask them to amend the warranty coverage to the day you bought it. That'll usually buy you an extra 3-6 months of coverage.

The BR24BPG pack has a two year warranty, but the boost it gives to the BR1500G is phenomenal. Without the pack, my system, which draws something close to ~500W under load, claimed an uptime of ~28 minutes. With the pack plugged in, that jumped to ~70. Obviously these numbers aren't spot-on accurate, but the extra pack is certainly worth considering.

Also - never rest the 1500G on its side. The model that preceded it, the BX1500, was specced for rackmount use with an adapter. I stored my first BR1500G sideways and inactive for a while, and I think it might've spoiled one of the batteries, which overheated badly and almost needed to be pried out of the unit for warranty replacement. The new one with the expansion pack is actually *cold* to the touch and is running like a goddamned rock. *knocks on wood*

Again, as Nexillus said - the surge protection on these UPSes suck. I have mine plugged into a four-outlet Tripp-Lite ISOBAR surge protector with a shock rating of a little over 4000 joules. They cost extra, but they're also worth the money. Applying for the APC warranty also gives you access to the "up to $150k" equipment warranty (which I'm sure you'd have to prove a *lot* of stuff to get reimbursed for your loss).

And if it helps you make a decision - my RMA experience with APC was excellent. I validated my unit's warranty, and they sent me out a brand new (not refurbished) unit free in exchange for my old unit (sans batteries to save on shipping) so I lost no uptime. The RMA tech I talked with on the phone even kept up communication with me until closure of the ticket.
 

burningrave101

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Can you use a surge protector like the Tripp-Lite ISOBAR with a UPS and them both function properly? We live in an area with a lot of lightning strikes and so that's always my first concern but I'm wanting to get a good line conditioning UPS for my expensive hardware.
 
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Zarathustra[H]

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I've been doing some research, and the APC SUA1500's seem to be the most bang for the buck in my price range.

I have a few questions for those with experience though:

1.) Many of the units on eBay do not have batteries (thew ones that do, are expensive to ship) What type of batteries do these use? Are there any good local sources for replacements?

2.) What is the compatibility of network management cards? Will any of the <$30 Smart-Slot cards I can find on eBay work, or are there specific model numbers I should be looking for?

3.) From the pictures there appears to be a battery port on the back. What is this used for? Is it to connect additional batteries? If so, what can be connected?

4.) Someone above was talking about plugging in car batteries? How is this done? Is it generally safe, or could I blow something?

it's really surprising to me how few of these units include rated WH in their specifications. How else is one supposed to know how much uptime to expect?

Much obliged,
Matt
 
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Destruya

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Zarathustra[H];1041057525 said:
I've been doing some research, and the APC SUA1500's seem to be the most bang for the buck in my price range.

I have a few questions for those with experience though:

1.) Many of the units on eBay do not have batteries (thew ones that do, are expensive to ship) What type of batteries do these use? Are there any good local sources for replacements?

2.) What is the compatibility of network management cards? Will any of the <$30 Smart-Slot cards I can find on eBay work, or are there specific model numbers I should be looking for?

3.) From the pictures there appears to be a battery port on the back. What is this used for? Is it to connect additional batteries? If so, what can be connected?

4.) Someone above was talking about plugging in car batteries? How is this done? Is it generally safe, or could I blow something?

it's really surprising to me how few of these units include rated WH in their specifications. How else is one supposed to know how much uptime to expect?

Much obliged,
Matt

1. Presuming that you live in the US, you should have a Batteries Plus store somewhere near you. Their prices are ~$10-20 more expensive than online (plus tax), but buying UPS batteries online is a shady affair since you 1) can never be sure if you're getting a refurb (or heavily-used/near-death one they cleaned to look new), and 2) you never know if you're getting the exact model/brand you want. B&M stores have an incentive to keep you from coming back by selling a product that's unlikely to have to be returned. Also, the eBay UPSes don't have batteries in them because they make the units a hell of a lot more expensive to ship, and the sealed lead acid batteries make shipping companies twitchy.

2. I have no expertise on this, so I'll defer to someone else.

3. The 'port' you're referring to on the back of the SUA1500 is a 'battery release' catch. It's ambiguous in the sense that it says "Battery Connector," but I assure you, it's a 'connector' that has to be *disconnected* to get the battery out. Also, should you buy a used SUA1500 and be flummoxed on where the battery goes in...you get to that compartment by taking the front off...*not* opening up the unit and potentially putting yourself in a situation where you could brush up against something still possibly holding a charge. The only UPS I know that has a dedicated expansion battery *port* is the BR1500G and its predecessor, the BX1500 (and of course, the option of buying two UPSes and balancing the load between them). I will also tell you that while getting the batteries in and out of a BR1500G is easy as hell (there are two joined by a connector assembly), the batteries in the expansion pack are *in* the expansion pack - there is no simple way to get them out or change them. It should also be said that while the BX1500 and BR1500G have two batteries apiece, the expansion packs have *four* batteries in them.

4. Some people take *extreme* steps towards maximum uptime. Car batteries aren't as well-suited for power backup applications as they're designed primarily to do two things: provide the initial power for the alternator/ignition, and temporarily keep your car's assorted electronic crap running when you kill the engine and just sit listening to the radio. The batteries the ~hardcore~ guys use are deep-cycle batteries (usually for boats) actually *designed* to be fully-discharged.

Another (non-APC) option: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=SMART1300LCDT

Also, evidently there is a version of the SUA1500 that has an expandable battery port: http://aircon.digdice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/apc-battery-external-pack-598x300.jpg
 
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sblantipodi

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Br1500gi from APC Is The best choice.
Good price with excellent quality.

Really no need for pure sine wave, stepped approximated sine wave is more than enough for a PC PSU.
 

MrGuvernment

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With all this UPS talk, here in CR we have power outage, quick 10-15 runs right now in rainy season, not as often as it used to be..

I have a laptop, cable modem and an Asus router.. what kind of watt's would i need to keep those 3 things up for say... 20-30 mins?

i think total draw is less than 250w for all 3, and that would only be if i was gaming on my laptop as it has a 230w power brick (sager NP8278)
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Yeah, figures. A UPS was next on my shopping list.

Fingers crossed that this outage didn't kill anything...
 

drescherjm

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With all this UPS talk, here in CR we have power outage, quick 10-15 runs right now in rainy season, not as often as it used to be..

I have a laptop, cable modem and an Asus router.. what kind of watt's would i need to keep those 3 things up for say... 20-30 mins?

i think total draw is less than 250w for all 3, and that would only be if i was gaming on my laptop as it has a 230w power brick (sager NP8278)

An APC SmartUPS 1500 would give you at least that much run time with that load. Look for refirbished units with new batteries on eBay for less than $200 US.
 
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