Receiving proper credit for a mod or idea.

Z

Zero_Distortion

Gawd
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
572
I'm curious how one would make sure to receive credit for a mod in a how-to section or other article. For instance there are many how-to articles on building a baybus or fanbus. Every article pays it's respects and mentions Cliff Anderson and how he pioneered the idea first. Let's say I have done something which if I show off WILL MOST DEFINITLY be copied by others because it is just such a simple idea everyone will say "man why didn't I think of that" So damn simple! Anyway I had a customer check out a machine that was being sent off and he mentioned to me what a simple yet ingenius idea that was. I said yea this was actually the first thing I ever did, It was over 5 years ago actually so Im confident I was the first to do so because I have yet to see another do it. I know you all are scratching your heads and wondering just what it is. Well keep scratching, when I'm done with my next mod which will also incorperate this idea you will see, Any input would be appreciated. Please keep the "what is it" comments off this thread please and just be patient.
 
Just ask politely. Most people will add your name when mentioning the mod. Others will not. Just the way the world works.
 
It's a shame I as well as a few others just end up keeping great idea's to ourselves. I had an interesting idea for an automotive product and I mentioned it to someone who I later found was filing for patent rights. Some people unfortunatly have no respect for others.
 
if its really a unique idea and you want credit, then patent it yourself
 
FLECOM said:
if its really a unique idea and you want credit, then patent it yourself
Click to expand...

Exactly.

My idea goes a little farther than that though. You might not follow the logic of what I'm about to say, but bear with me.

You may or may not have ever heard of the Invisbl Skrtch Piklz, a DJ group. Up until they came along, DJs used to cover up their labels on the records they used, and it was all about secrecy. The Piklz came along and opened it up, basically saying "Here's what we do, take it, learn it, and do it better", and that idea raised the art to a whole new level. The same thing has happened with Case Modding over the last few years, but invariably, some asshole always takes the really good ideas and patents them himself because no one else did it. I'd like to continue to see worklogs for really advanced and extreme units because I like to see people pushing the boundaries of whatever it is they choose to do, be it modding or any other creative area.

It's my idea that this same open and free attitude should be undertaken with anything creative. If I came up with a fantastic idea, I'd patent it and then give it away for people that want to use the idea non-commercially, thus preventing someone from mass producing it and selling it.
 
It's my idea that this same open and free attitude should be undertaken with anything creative. If I came up with a fantastic idea, I'd patent it and then give it away for people that want to use the idea non-commercially, thus preventing someone from mass producing it and selling it.
Click to expand...

Great idea, but slightly impractical. Patents cost big $$ to file and pursue. Unless you are independently wealthy and don't care about staying that way then go ahead and file a patent application and then defend your patents. Look at all the problems RAMBUS has caused and they were really sneaky bastards.
 
I really don't see what the issue is here. you shouldn't be worried about people "stealing" your idea and using it. If you're worried get a patent like somebody else said. It's not just about getting credit. Take art for example. People have been using other artists ideas for centuries, that's how art movements get started, a bunch of people studying and working together coming up with a similar style that others will eventually use. Do you think that every impressionist is well know or that every pop art artist is well known.

It's more about the sharing of ideas. you're idea might be the best thing in the world, but in a month after somebody sees your idea and makes an improvement that'll be the best thing. And you can take pride in helping to start that. Nobody gets anywhere when they keep secrets. and chances are with modding that it's already been done, or atleast a similar idea, by somebody who isn't getting credit for it.

Modding is more of an expression of the person doing the modding than of getting credit for coming up with an idea. If somebody copies you take pride in knowing that your idea is so good that others want to replicate it.

either start producing them and selling them and get a patent, or just do it and share.
 
The easiest (and cheapest, imho) way to ensure that you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your idea came along first is this:

1. Take pictures, REAL pictures (if you don't have a decent camera, get a disposable, they're good enough), while you're developing this idea, and have them developed.

2. Put copies of the photographs in an envelope (manila envelope, with a carboard insert is a good idea, since it helps prevent your letter carrier from bending it), and mail it to yourself.

3. When it gets to your house, do NOT open it! Put it in a safe place, and keep it sealed. If a question ever comes up about who came up with the idea first, you have a sealed envelope with a postmark on it, that contains pictures of your idea/mod.

Will it hold up in court? Probably not, since it would be easy to put a shadow of a doubt into a jury'd mind......but it might be enough to get the person that stole the idea to offer you part of the credit for it (and hopefully part of the $$$ too, if they're making bank off of your idea). :D
 
i am all for idea sharing. i could have a sick idea for a mod, but not have the cash to do it... someone else could take my ideas, and make them a reality, i would then be proud, etc...

i do think however, if you were to write up a "how-to", and it began showing up on other sites, that a link should be included with author name, email, etc.
 
Nivram said:
The easiest (and cheapest, imho) way to ensure that you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your idea came along first is this:

1. Take pictures, REAL pictures (if you don't have a decent camera, get a disposable, they're good enough), while you're developing this idea, and have them developed.

2. Put copies of the photographs in an envelope (manila envelope, with a carboard insert is a good idea, since it helps prevent your letter carrier from bending it), and mail it to yourself.

3. When it gets to your house, do NOT open it! Put it in a safe place, and keep it sealed. If a question ever comes up about who came up with the idea first, you have a sealed envelope with a postmark on it, that contains pictures of your idea/mod.

Will it hold up in court? Probably not, since it would be easy to put a shadow of a doubt into a jury'd mind......but it might be enough to get the person that stole the idea to offer you part of the credit for it (and hopefully part of the $$$ too, if they're making bank off of your idea). :D
Click to expand...

I've dealt with a lot of copyright issues (being an artist and musician), and personally know a patent attorney. This is a waste of time. Almost no court will even hear a case unless you've filed paperwork. Your case will be dismissed if you even make it in front of a judge. The "Poor Man's Copyright" is an urban legend. File the paperwork.

Also, juries have nothing to do with this, since it would be a civil matter, and jury trials are mostly, if not all, just criminal in nature.

If anyone happens to be genuinely interested, here's what you're allowed to patent and here's all copyright info you'll ever need.
 
I have a few neat ideas myself, both in the practical and aesthetic realms, that I haven't shared with anybody.

My strategy is that I won't divulge the ideas until I come up with an OUTSTANDING, MEMORABLE implementation of the ideas. That way, it will create a lasting impression on people, and it will naturally perpetuate the claim that I came up with the idea first. That way, any challengers to the claim would embarrass themselves by claiming otherwise. Think about it--even if I was technically first to come up with something, but the execution was poor, people would say "You were first... but so what?"
 
xonik said:
I have a few neat ideas myself, both in the practical and aesthetic realms, that I haven't shared with anybody.

My strategy is that I won't divulge the ideas until I come up with an OUTSTANDING, MEMORABLE implementation of the ideas.
Click to expand...

just don't wait so long that somebody else will come up with, and show off, the same idea before you do - then you'll be left screaming that you 'thought of it first'... and not much more :cool:
 
FLECOM said:
if its really a unique idea and you want credit, then patent it yourself
Click to expand...
You can't patent an idea without a working prototype, I've been looking into this quite extensively. Hopefully once I'm done you'll see my idea on new model vehicles! Cadillac has expressed interest!!!

bigbadgreen

Im not worried about others using my idea, just receiving credit for it. This wouldn't be a community if everyone never shared their idea's or insight.

derrick

thats exactly what Im after, just a link and acknowledgement

Thanx for yoru input guys.
 
Patents are wildly expensive and can take years to be approved without the help of patant lawyers. Like most things run by the government the process for filing a patent is overly complex to the point it is insane. Even with good patent attorneys working for you it can take a couple of years to be approved. If your idea is too close to somthing else on file they will deny it and all you have to show for it is a bill to your lawyers and the patent office. Patents are not average joe friendly, they have the stink of corporate domination all over them. Reforming the patent system comes up from time to time, support those who are trying to change it so maybe one day we might all be able to use it.
 
bonzanego said:
Patents are wildly expensive and can take years to be approved without the help of patant lawyers. Like most things run by the government the process for filing a patent is overly complex to the point it is insane. Even with good patent attorneys working for you it can take a couple of years to be approved. If your idea is too close to somthing else on file they will deny it and all you have to show for it is a bill to your lawyers and the patent office. Patents are not average joe friendly, they have the stink of corporate domination all over them. Reforming the patent system comes up from time to time, support those who are trying to change it so maybe one day we might all be able to use it.
Click to expand...

I knew a guy who worked at the USPTO that said that they were under orders to pretty much approve anything. I also believe the patent/copyright system needs major reform. Patenting business practices is stupid.
 
twyztyr said:
Patenting business practices is stupid.
Click to expand...
agreed, didn't amazon sue for the one click ordering thing? I wouldnt patent a STUPID idea, sometimes having a second page available to double check everything before an order is placed is a GOOD thing!
 
Another way to receive credit is to publish it. Not necesarily in a book or computer magazine (although that would be cool if you did), but get a website, put a complete writeup with pictures of your project. Then visit your site from archive.org's way back machine so that it will store (with a date) your content, that way you have evidence which will at least hold up against your modding peers if you want to prove you came up with an idea, although I doubt it would be legally sound.
 
Lol what's wrong with you.
You're not making royalties here, so why give a shit about getting credit when someone down the line 3 years from now does a MOd Similar to yours and was inspirited by your idea but failed to give you credit.

I host free information modding sites, and any ideas I come up with while not asking for credit or some respect that ppl wouldn't obviously do.

Just give us your ideas on the forums or whatever medium you chose, or keep it your "uber secret."

A post like this just shows your a vain person who wants something.
 
Nivram said:
The easiest (and cheapest, imho) way to ensure that you can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your idea came along first is this:

1. Take pictures, REAL pictures (if you don't have a decent camera, get a disposable, they're good enough), while you're developing this idea, and have them developed.

2. Put copies of the photographs in an envelope (manila envelope, with a carboard insert is a good idea, since it helps prevent your letter carrier from bending it), and mail it to yourself.

3. When it gets to your house, do NOT open it! Put it in a safe place, and keep it sealed. If a question ever comes up about who came up with the idea first, you have a sealed envelope with a postmark on it, that contains pictures of your idea/mod.

Will it hold up in court? Probably not, since it would be easy to put a shadow of a doubt into a jury'd mind......but it might be enough to get the person that stole the idea to offer you part of the credit for it (and hopefully part of the $$$ too, if they're making bank off of your idea). :D
Click to expand...
actually, to the best of my knowledge, that will indeed hold up in court. it's called "a poor man's copyright", and people have been doing it for years.
my little sister (RIP) wrote some sings awhile back, and they were good, i may be biased, but they made it to the front od Rolling Stone's web site....
anywyas, she did exactly that, except she sent them to her boyfriend. we still have the envelope, unopened.
what makes it legal is the date stamped on it. that's the P.O. that put that date there, a government institute, so yes, it would hold up in in court, since it was the government that put the date there in the first place!
 
I think the majority of you guys are way too paranoid about people taking your modding ideas.

The only way to stop this whole paranoia thing is to build a case or a mod the best it could possibly be. Even if someone tries to copy you, yours will still be the best and people will know that. It's not like you're going to make millions because of a case mod you did. Unless you plan on taking it all the way to the top (mass producing). And if that's the case, you shouldn't be blabbing (or bragging) about your ideas in the first place.

If you can't do the mod or you just randomly blurt out ideas, it's your own damn fault if someone uses it and doesn't give you credit.
 
Unoid said:
Lol what's wrong with you.
You're not making royalties here, so why give a shit about getting credit when someone down the line 3 years from now does a MOd Similar to yours and was inspirited by your idea but failed to give you credit.
Click to expand...
ofcourse I would be, if an invention of mine is used by companies they would ofcourse have to pay royalties or the rights to use said product. Not for a mod but it would be nice

I host free information modding sites, and any ideas I come up with while not asking for credit or some respect that ppl wouldn't obviously do.

Just give us your ideas on the forums or whatever medium you chose, or keep it your "uber secret."
Click to expand...
a mod is another thing entirely, like art you can't stop people from trying to make the same thing. Maybe I should have worded my question better

A post like this just shows your a vain person who wants something.
Click to expand...
unlike Einstein or Tesla who's inventions were meant to be freely used by people for good mine is more like Henry Fords, who did it for profit, Im sorry if that bothers you, Are you a Communist by any chance? I should tell everyone about my project which yes I do intend to sell. Guess Im a vain person then.

I kinda goofed and combined my mod credit q with some patent q's I was also thinking about at the time this thread was started.
 
Kerri Ann said:
actually, to the best of my knowledge, that will indeed hold up in court. it's called "a poor man's copyright", and people have been doing it for years.
my little sister (RIP) wrote some sings awhile back, and they were good, i may be biased, but they made it to the front od Rolling Stone's web site....
anywyas, she did exactly that, except she sent them to her boyfriend. we still have the envelope, unopened.
what makes it legal is the date stamped on it. that's the P.O. that put that date there, a government institute, so yes, it would hold up in in court, since it was the government that put the date there in the first place!
Click to expand...

Any patent/copyright attorney will tell you otherwise. I've also had friends directly involved in this. They played a show, someone claimed to be from a record label and recorded their show. They'd had the "poor man's copyright" already. The guy that recorded the show copyrighted all of their songs and tried to sell the rights back to the band. When they tried to take it to court, the case couldn't even get before a judge. because they never made an official filing.

The Poor Man's Copyright is also covered in the books "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About the Music Business by Donald Pressman, Legal Aspects of The Music Industry by Richard Schulenberg, as well as any other book dealing with topics of business or contract law, and many other websites.

The opinion is that if you can't be bothered to send in the proper paperwork, you screwed yourself. Whether it's fair or not is irrelevant, as we all know the real world is fair. If you're that worried, make the extra effort, spend the money, and file the paperwork. Alternatively, you could get famous for whatever it is you want to protect and make sure everyone knows about it. Someone else can still patent it if you don't, but at least everyone would know it was yours first. You'll get ripped off, but you'll still be famous.
 
Zero_Distortion said:
ofcourse I would be, if an invention of mine is used by companies they would ofcourse have to pay royalties or the rights to use said product. Not for a mod but it would be nice


a mod is another thing entirely, like art you can't stop people from trying to make the same thing. Maybe I should have worded my question better


unlike Einstein or Tesla who's inventions were meant to be freely used by people for good mine is more like Henry Fords, who did it for profit, Im sorry if that bothers you, Are you a Communist by any chance? I should tell everyone about my project which yes I do intend to sell. Guess Im a vain person then.

I kinda goofed and combined my mod credit q with some patent q's I was also thinking about at the time this thread was started.
Click to expand...
Capitalism at it's best. ;) Perhaps if this idea of your is so great (I'm so curious what it is) you could find a financial backer to support you for a share. Of couse they may steal the idea too, but business is all about risk. There arn't too many ways to make mad cash without taking risks.
 
xonik said:
I have a few neat ideas myself, both in the practical and aesthetic realms, that I haven't shared with anybody.

My strategy is that I won't divulge the ideas until I come up with an OUTSTANDING, MEMORABLE implementation of the ideas. That way, it will create a lasting impression on people, and it will naturally perpetuate the claim that I came up with the idea first. That way, any challengers to the claim would embarrass themselves by claiming otherwise. Think about it--even if I was technically first to come up with something, but the execution was poor, people would say "You were first... but so what?"
Click to expand...
lol.
That, or when someone else independently comes up with the same Idea and a decent execution thereof, it'll be YOU whinging 'I thought of it first!'


If a person hasn't got any intent or ability to make any financial gain from their Idea, then it is just childish nonsense to keep it 'secret'.


That said, if anyone knows of a 'turbine' mod like this:

turbine.jpg


that pre-dates Dec '01, I'd like to hear about it.
 
From waaay back,
n_2a.jpg

n_3a.jpg


I don't remember the site I got them from, but whatever. I'm sure you're not going to lose sleep over this.
 
xonik said:
From waaay back,



I don't remember the site I got them from, but whatever. I'm sure you're not going to lose sleep over this.
Click to expand...
Unauthorized hotlinking. Host is borked.
 
You don't see them?

Try copy-pasting the image locations,

http://www.supload.com/012005/n_1a.jpg
http://www.supload.com/012005/n_2a.jpg
http://www.supload.com/012005/n_3a.jpg
 
I think everyone's ignoring my first post because they want their ego stroked knowing they were the first for something.

Cmon guys, we're not 12 years old here. I think I passed the stage where I gave a shit if I was first long ago. It's not like these mods are groundbreaking in any way.... Being first ultimately means nothing in the world of modding. This is case modding, you make blowholes and flashy lights spring up out of yer asses. What possible good does being first do?
 
Qtip42 said:
I think everyone's ignoring my first post because they want their ego stroked knowing they were the first for something.

Cmon guys, we're not 12 years old here. I think I passed the stage where I gave a shit if I was first long ago. It's not like these mods are groundbreaking in any way.... Being first ultimately means nothing in the world of modding. This is case modding, you make blowholes and flashy lights spring up out of yer asses. What possible good does being first do?
Click to expand...
Am I missreading the Zero_Distortion? Isn't he talking about something other than modding, like with intent to capitalize off of it? In that case it isn't a matter of playing "who's first" but actual business.
 
I would have to admit that worrying THAT MUCH about recieving credit is pretty stupid. Its the whole chain "telephone" business that we used to do ages ago back in 4th grade. First, your going to make the idea, someone's going to copy it and give you credit. The next person is going to see person #2's copy of that idea and either, not read the part where credit is offered to you or diregard it. If that person #3 gives credit it is most likely to person #2 if any credit at all. And your fame and glory days of being credited for this mod will be over except for the few people that visit YOUR worklog and get the idea from YOU.

For instance. I used an idea from KodiakStar for my case and did indeed give him credit. After the next few posts of people telling me how wierd it was to first ask his permission and give him credit, he gave me permission, I used his mod and gave him credit in my post. The credit space was "Thanks to KodiakStar for letting me use his idea.." that's it. Now onto the point proved above. I didnt see a credit in his post for someone he got the idea from of the mod I gave HIM credit for, that could mean one of three things, I'm Person #3 who either disregarded him giving credit or didnt read it altogether, He didn't give credit in his post, or he was the first to come up with the idea. It could be any of those three. The main point is that I don't know if it was his idea, and if it was I pride myself in offering him credit. But what if it wasn't, then the person who did come up with it that he got his idea from is probably not going to know that I used it and if he found out, might come telling me that it was his idea and offer him credit as well.

Basically it all sums up to, unless you are so bent on getting your credit as to go as far as patenting it and sueing the poor people who didnt realize it was your idea in the first place and didnt offer you credit, then you can expect your accredation of the mod to last about a month, maybe 2 at most.

*EDIT* Everything stated in this post was with average, DIY case modding in mind. *EDIT*
 
Well I hope i don't piss anyone off. I'm working on a mod I know I've seen a couple of times before, but I havn't done the research to find the originator (been a few years since I last saw it) I'm not taking claim for the idea, and my influence for it is the same as the originals, so I'm looking at it like every one does for case windows. No one is asking anyone for permssion to put a window in cause no one remembers who did it first (as if it would even matter at this point). On that point, doesn anyone remember who did the first LED fan? It was someone on [H], where the LEDs where actually on the blades...now how come no one has mass produced these...hmm maybe I need to bring this back into style.
 
redhalo said:
Well I hope i don't piss anyone off. I'm working on a mod I know I've seen a couple of times before, but I havn't done the research to find the originator (been a few years since I last saw it) I'm not taking claim for the idea, and my influence for it is the same as the originals, so I'm looking at it like every one does for case windows. No one is asking anyone for permssion to put a window in cause no one remembers who did it first (as if it would even matter at this point). On that point, doesn anyone remember who did the first LED fan? It was someone on [H], where the LEDs where actually on the blades...now how come no one has mass produced these...hmm maybe I need to bring this back into style.
Click to expand...

Another valid point, say your idea is SO awesome that people start using it left and right, eventually everyone is going to think the same thing, "well I've seen this idea in a few hundred places, I don't have to mess with crediting."

On a side note: having LED's on the fan blades would be very cool, see if you can find me a link.
 
redhalo said:
Am I missreading the Zero_Distortion? Isn't he talking about something other than modding, like with intent to capitalize off of it? In that case it isn't a matter of playing "who's first" but actual business.
Click to expand...
No you didn't missread it, yes your right I am not talking about a mod, I goofed and mentioned a mod as well as patent rights here. Its not the mod I want achnowlegdement for.
 
MasterFrmMO88 said:
Another valid point, say your idea is SO awesome that people start using it left and right, eventually everyone is going to think the same thing, "well I've seen this idea in a few hundred places, I don't have to mess with crediting."

On a side note: having LED's on the fan blades would be very cool, see if you can find me a link.
Click to expand...
Damn shame the corporate world bastardized the design cause this was what originally made led fans so popular, but thats how you cut costs.Here a link to what i'm talking about:
http://www.uniquehardware.ca/guides/guide01/guide1.1.php
I wish I could remember the originator though...I wanna say he was/is a mod here.

So as to stay on topic...
Zero_Distortion said:
No you didn't missread it, yes your right I am not talking about a mod, I goofed and mentioned a mod as well as patent rights here. Its not the mod I want achnowlegdement for.
Click to expand...
I think the safest most somewhat garuanteed route to go would be a legit patent, but I understand that it isn't nesassarily practical, quick, or cheap, but as they say "It takes money to make money."

EDIT: I am somewhat curious what your idea is that Cadillac is so interested in, pm it to me if you want, but if your worried I'll steal it then I understand ;)
 
redhalo said:
Damn shame the corporate world bastardized the design cause this was what originally made led fans so popular, but thats how you cut costs.Here a link to what i'm talking about:
Click to expand...
That's strange. You look at is as a bastardization, while I see the original design stand out even more amidst a crowd of blander designs. The very fact that it was bastardized, versus making an identical copy, makes the original design seem more unique than before the manufacturers caught on.
 
xonik said:
That's strange. You look at is as a bastardization, while I see the original design stand out even more amidst a crowd of blander designs. The very fact that it was bastardized, versus making an identical copy, makes the original design seem more unique than before the manufacturers caught on.
Click to expand...
No doubt the original is awsome. Thats why I call the copys bastardized. But sadly few people remembers the originals because of such bastardizations taking such a hold.
 
FLECOM said:
if its really a unique idea and you want credit, then patent it yourself
Click to expand...

Agree...most electronics companies that build components we use have "cook books" and everyone copies those with little recognition given back to the company that created the IC or components used.

Hell I've got a stack of them in my cube and volumes of them in the corporate library...

MD
 
Zero_Distortion said:
I'm curious how one would make sure to receive credit for a mod in a how-to section or other article.
Click to expand...
Seems like everyone in here is offering you advice on the patent end of things. It's too bad the US Patent office has become so corrupt and antiquated. In these days of electronic information it's easier than ever to store and retreive documents. We don't even need these people anymore, but still the system persists to serve the rich.So the easiest thing to do is publish your idea in public forums like these, and the idea will never be patented by anyone else. As soon as you go public with no prior Patent office contact the idea becomes public domain. This is the only way people like us can get a name for ourselves. Be prepared to have others copy you. Like Qtip said, as long as yours is quality and your work speaks for itself, you are all set.
 
zeusenergy said:
Seems like everyone in here is offering you advice on the patent end of things. It's too bad the US Patent office has become so corrupt and antiquated. In these days of electronic information it's easier than ever to store and retreive documents. We don't even need these people anymore, but still the system persists to serve the rich.So the easiest thing to do is publish your idea in public forums like these, and the idea will never be patented by anyone else. As soon as you go public with no prior Patent office contact the idea becomes public domain. This is the only way people like us can get a name for ourselves. Be prepared to have others copy you. Like Qtip said, as long as yours is quality and your work speaks for itself, you are all set.
Click to expand...

Yet you have no means of of recovering any losses due to patent infringement...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top