Ray Tracing Allegedly Won't Launch With RTX Graphics Cards

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by AlphaAtlas, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas Gawd Staff Member

    Messages:
    549
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    PCWorld claims that Nvidia's RTX graphics cards won't launch with ray tracing enabled in any games. Nvidia senior VP of content and technology Tony Tamasi says that Microsoft's Ray Tracing API, which Nvidia's RTX is built on top of, isn't available in Windows 10 yet, implying that we'll have to wait for the October 2018 update for official support. However, PCWorld also says that developers have had access to ray tracing though Windows Insider Builds for some time. Windows users can sign up for public insider preview updates on Microsoft's website, and it's unclear if slow ring or fast ring users will have access to ray tracing before those builds go mainstream.

    Tamasi said we’ll see ray traced games appear about a month after the GeForce RTX 2080 and RTX 2080 Ti launch. Perhaps not so coincidentally, Microsoft has also teased the perfunctorily named Windows 10 October 2018 Update, the second big Windows update of the year, though it hasn’t committed to an exact release date. Expect the first ray traced games to appear shortly thereafter. And if you preordered a custom GeForce RTX 2080 or RTX 2080 Ti graphics card, don’t expect to play with its marquee new feature when it arrives on your doorstep.
     
  2. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    LOL Pre-order.
     
    F.E.A.R., tetris42, lostin3d and 12 others like this.
  3. thebufenator

    thebufenator Gawd

    Messages:
    1,001
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
  4. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas Gawd Staff Member

    Messages:
    549
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Also, as a future warning to others, run Windows 10 preview builds at your own risk.


    I'm in the fast ring on one computer atm. It's mostly problem free, but when I did run into trouble, I got into even more trouble switching back to a mainstream build. I had to load a backup and just stay in the fast ring.
     
  5. fightingfi

    fightingfi Look at Me! I need the attention.

    Messages:
    2,275
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    LULZ...........im still thinking even with rtx and the games coming out what if the game sucks no big deal to use or have rtx then basically.......
     
  6. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,944
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2007
    So now; if you ever get fixed up on a blind date; and when you meet you see she is fugly. Just yell "RTX ON!" and enjoy your date.
     
  7. thenapalm

    thenapalm Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    358
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Just when we thought Apple had the market cornered on courage... a challenger appears.
     
    F.E.A.R., Kinestron, Dayaks and 11 others like this.
  8. Brokennails

    Brokennails [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,706
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    I'd wait for real in game testing on RTX stuff if that was my main reason for getting one of these. Remember back when Physx was new and all these amazing screen shots came out and then real world game play was nowhere near what was shown. One of the ones I remember being that way was Cryostasis. There were others but that was one that stuck in my mind...
     
    Kinestron and DedEmbryonicCe11 like this.
  9. collegeboy69us

    collegeboy69us [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,233
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    meh - no preorder here im waiting till Newegg as some instock AIB type cards regularly in stock.

    So odds are I won't have to even worry about putting the trigger still December or later. Plenty of time to see how RTX hits the ground running or or just walking. 1080Ti's in the meantime means I'm in zero rush.
     
  10. chaos4u

    chaos4u Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    294
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    and bam! just. like that all previous versions of win 10 obsoleted just like that. should have been a simple direct x upgrade but no... they have to force a all new os on you.
     
    Kinestron, tunatime and LightsOut41 like this.
  11. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Um... It's an October UPDATE. Not Windows 11.
     
    F.E.A.R., yumnmycandy, Dayaks and 5 others like this.
  12. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,244
    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    I'm not surprised in the least on this. Driver implementation and API use are always a step that needs to be taken. New feature = updated API. But you have to have the install base of hardware present first. I don't see the big criminal here.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  13. GoodBoy

    GoodBoy [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,026
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Lol... well, the first rounds of reviews are likely (hopefully) just going to be done at normal settings so we can compare to the older cards, and get %increase measurements in old games as a baseline, raytracing aside. The benchmarks with Raytracing enabled can come a little later, and then we can compare Raytracing on vs off. Going to take multiple types of reviews to really see the whole picture on these cards anyway.

    Plus, games we know will have raytracing like Battlefield V, are only out in Beta atm... I haven't researched how many games will have raytracing capabilty on the Day 1 that these cards launch, but it is probably going to start out as a small pool if any. Well I suppose with this announcement, we can say that 0 games will "be able" to run Raytracing on Day 1 launch of these cards if Windows will not officially support it just yet. Myself I have learned to stay away from the 'early access' windows builds... shit goes wrong and you wind up having to reload Windows...
     
  14. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Yes, you're right. But I think his point was that it shouldn't be tied to an OS upgrade at all, even a free one, as a new DirectX runtime would suffice.
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  15. viper1152012

    viper1152012 Gawd

    Messages:
    894
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Cant wait for the multiple driver updates required to get the feature working correctly.

    Thnx
     
    LightsOut41 and N4CR like this.
  16. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017

    So the DirectX upgrade is in the update. BFD. You know MS doesn't operate with incremental DIrectX updates anymore. Hasn't for years, that's how they sold Win10 with DX12.
     
    Armenius and IdiotInCharge like this.
  17. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    "mostly" ...lol
     
  18. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,733
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    It's really unfortunate that there are no "killer apps" available at launch for the ray tracing. This may be really incredible technology but the launch is just botched. They should have held the launch until they could offer some RT games or demos on day one.
     
  19. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Why bother when "Lemmings" are eating up pre-order on Jensen fake ray tracing? That whole Nvidia presentation was a big fat sales pitch. Suckers born every minute.
     
  20. R_Type

    R_Type [H]Lite

    Messages:
    98
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Yeah the whole thing smells of "will be big in 2020 not before"
     
    LightsOut41, Flogger23m and jnemesh like this.
  21. HorseproofBacon

    HorseproofBacon Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    266
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2016
    I want PeteTracing, JohnTracing, TracyTracing. Why does Ray get to do all the tracing?
     
  22. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

    Messages:
    7,508
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    I don't see it as botched- if you're buying a 2000-series card this early, you're buying it for the raw performance increase and the potential for using ray tracing as games are released. But mostly for the raw performance.

    There are plenty of high-end use cases for that already.
     
  23. R_Type

    R_Type [H]Lite

    Messages:
    98
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Lol AWFUL
     
    HorseproofBacon and motqalden like this.
  24. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,733
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Botched in the sense of Nvidia has chosen to be responsible for the push into ray tracing. This is kind of a religious issue for all gamers. It's extremely vital that the transition into Ray Tracing happen properly and if done wrong enough could doom us to another decade or more of rasterization.

    They NEED to have RT software in the hands of gamers on day one but that's already impossible. So now it's going to be an uphill battle to prove to the average joe it's a necessary feature and not a gimmick.

    It should be the other way around. We should be launching with a massive WOW factor that makes everyone who cant real-time ray trace wish they could right away so they can experience it for themselves.

    That's what I meant by botched. It SHOULD still turn out ok since the tech will largely sell itself but any product or feature can be lost to history if the marketing is done poorly enough.
     
  25. viper1152012

    viper1152012 Gawd

    Messages:
    894
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    I am for ray tracing look up tables saving time and cranking out decent simulations of real time tracing (as I understood the tech demos), but I was hoping they would offer it on a node shrink and have some great performance increase.

    The 1080ti to the 2080 just seema like a small gain with a new trick added to get you to buy it.

    Certainly the "hold outs" I know with 1080 cards are skipping this gen... Not enough to make them open their piggy banks.
     
  26. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,403
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Considering it took almost a year before the NV drivers and anniversary or creators update(don't remember which one) played nice with each other for either 4k or 4k/HDR it ought to be interesting to see how long until RT becomes truly usable after hearing this. I remember I was running 378.24, or some such, for most of that year because Windows changed something in the API and it took that long before NV got it right. Now NV is depending on them and it's not even out on launch day-talk about ass backwards.
     
  27. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

    Messages:
    7,508
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    They really don't.

    They need the hardware out there and the engine support, and that's going to happen regardless of the amount of 'reeeeeeeeeee!' going on.
     
    Dayaks, Armenius and GoldenTiger like this.
  28. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    They do, because NV is pissing of their best customers by screwing them with essentially vaporware until it is in and working, NV has been taking bad lessons from the gaming industry by releasing an unfinished product,

    Did you preorder?
     
  29. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

    Messages:
    7,508
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    They're releasing a faster card, their customers are buying a faster card.

    You really think that people are expecting day 1 ray tracing support? For games that aren't released yet?
     
    GoldenTiger, Armenius and heatlesssun like this.
  30. Advil

    Advil [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,733
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Uh, yes.

    I expect to be able to run a couple of demos to see it for myself at the very least.

    There is a whole massive chunk of silicon on this GPU die just for this purpose and it's launching with no way to even see it work.

    And yes, I have preordered as of today.
     
  31. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    idk. If I preordered an RTX and was reading this - I would feel taken advantage of and a little pissed off. Maybe someone in that position can let us know. Are you not a little surprised that those candy eye features that Jensen rambled on and on about are not actually ready? I'm sure a lot of people assumed they would be, How would that make you feel ponying up 800 bucks or whatever on a preorder and find out this?

    This is the wrong thing to do to your customers. Your acceptance of this just promotes this bad corporate behavior.

    Here is your new car, oh and btw your fourth wheel is still in the development phase, maybe you will get it next month, maybe not,
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  32. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge Not the Idiot YOU are Looking for

    Messages:
    7,508
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Me?

    I didn't expect them to be ready. The games aren't ready, and those are known- what use is RT till then?

    If I preordered, it would be for the performance I could get in what I'm running now. And the 1080Ti isn't fast enough for everything now, so I absolutely get why some have preordered.
     
    GoldenTiger and Armenius like this.
  33. Mega6

    Mega6 Gawd

    Messages:
    1,012
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Welp looks like one pissed off customer already at least.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  34. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Gawd

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I honesty do not understand why anyone would pre order such an expensive item of hardware based on 'apparent' performance speculation provided By Nvidia of all companies? Is it really that important that you be so bleeding edge that you go against every whim of better judgement before waiting for independent reviews to hit the internet?

    The simple fact that Nvidia are going all out with NDA's highlights the potential for disappointment regarding cost vs actual real life performance benefits and apparent new features.
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  35. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,108
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    If you have to ask that question, the card wasn't meant for you. There will always people who will preorder before official review comes out, some people just want the latest and greatest and money is not an issue for them.
     
  36. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Gawd

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Personally, I think if you have to ask that question than common sense is strong with you. ;)
     
    LightsOut41 and Chimpee like this.
  37. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,108
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    Common sense is not common, but to be fair, pre-ordering doesn't carry much risk for the buyer, since if the card isn't on par to their expectations, they can easily cancel an order or at worse, return the product if it shipped already.
     
  38. Nanogrip

    Nanogrip Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    376
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    It's kind of like having the entire game installed, but you cannot play it because the launch date is a few days away. ((STEAM))
     
    LightsOut41 likes this.
  39. Mazzspeed

    Mazzspeed Gawd

    Messages:
    976
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    In my experience buying games (EA) on launch day or earlier (EA) was always fraught with danger (EA)....

    EA...
     
  40. Iratus

    Iratus [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,169
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Jeez, if it's true that's a bit of a kick.

    Kinda fucking this launch up hey, it's like the bad old days of paper launches, vendor misdirection and overselling.

    I'm almost tempted to sell down some more of my shares (did it last May too as I was overweight which hurts a bit, though a lot went to amd) as I'm starting to get a bad feeling. Need to see next quarter for the AI traction.
     
Tags: