Raspberry Pi first batch delayed due to a manufacturing glitch

Raspberry Pi Foundation has already rubbed me the wrong way with all the teasing. They're worse than Nvidia, if you can imagine that.

Plus, it really doesn't matter what ARM processor they decide to bolt on to Powercore IV, with such an anemic processor...

By the time this is released I'm sure we'll see several Beaglebone clones.
 
The expected delivery date on my order has changed from early April to late May :mad:
 
It takes a while to check, unsolder an old ethernet port, put in a new one and re-test 11,000 units. :p

I'll LOL if the Always Innovating Dongle ships first. I do feel sorry for those who paid exorbitant shipping to get in on the first batch.
 
the first batch was just fine, it is the new runs they start after contracting the companies, pre-orders will be delay a little but not much (if they can find the right parts, and they are optimistic that they can) i personally have not gotten any info on shipping changes.

You should also not blame the Foundation they did not make the mistake.
 
Poplap said:
the first batch was just fine,
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No, the front page post on http://www.raspberrypi.org/ explains that the first batch is nearly finished with repairs, and later batches may be "slight"ly delayed if there are problems sourcing more magnetic jacks.

Happily, it’s a very minor problem to fix (desolder the dud jack/solder on a new one), and the factory is nearly done working on replacing them on the first set of boards.
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Poplap said:
the first batch was just fine, it is the new runs they start after contracting the companies, pre-orders will be delay a little but not much (if they can find the right parts, and they are optimistic that they can) i personally have not gotten any info on shipping changes.

You should also not blame the Foundation they did not make the mistake.
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It isn't a singular mistake, yes, this thread is about that mistake.

I'm talking about the culmination of mistakes they have made. This product was supposed to be released a few months ago.
  • First, it was pushed back because they were still designing. This was sometime in Spring 2011
  • Then it got pushed back because they had said they wanted to produce them in the UK. I thought they were joking? Who has affordable pick 'n place industry like that in the UK?
  • Then it got pushed back a month.
  • Then they left us waiting and left an obscure message about set your alarms for 0600 GMT because
  • Wake up at 0600 GMT: the news is that they're delivering pre-orders which won't be here until next month.
  • Now finally, they're discovering the batches have a manufacturing defect.

I could have panhandled my way into a Pandaboard ES by now.

  • I don't agree with their design methodology. The ARM processor is an afterthought in the SoC.
  • The hardware is closed-source binary blobs so, all this Videocore IV posturing... does it matter if you can't access it? OMAP is a lot more open than what they're offering.
  • The only thing they have going for them (depending on the application) is price.
 
Yossarian22 said:
I could have panhandled my way into a Pandaboard ES by now.
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Yeah, lol.

  • I don't agree with their design methodology. The ARM processor is an afterthought in the SoC.
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Holding down cost seemed to be the primary concern. The SoC included with the RPi is designed for media player boxes, but it could have been worse: similarly priced processors made for low cost routers could have been chosen instead.

While I think an A8 or dual core Cortex A9 would have made a better product, the ARM11 included isn't too horrible for the price. CPU performance definitely is not fast, but the video decoding hardware and somewhat usable GPU performance are reasonable trade-offs IMO.

TBH, a Medfield (new low power Atom for smart phones) stick, if it could run standard versions of Linux (and even better if it could run XP/7), would make me even happier than the current ARM options. Just give it a SODIMM slot and maybe a SATA/eSATA connector (plus USB of course). It wouldn't need to be any bigger than the RPi. Dreaming...
 
pxc said:
Yeah, lol.

Holding down cost seemed to be the primary concern. The SoC included with the RPi is designed for media player boxes, but it could have been worse: similarly priced processors made for low cost routers could have been chosen instead.

While I think an A8 or dual core Cortex A9 would have made a better product, the ARM11 included isn't too horrible for the price. CPU performance definitely is not fast, but the video decoding hardware and somewhat usable GPU performance are reasonable trade-offs IMO.

TBH, a Medfield (new low power Atom for smart phones) stick, if it could run standard versions of Linux (and even better if it could run XP/7), would make me even happier than the current ARM options. Just give it a SODIMM slot and maybe a SATA/eSATA connector (plus USB of course). It wouldn't need to be any bigger than the RPi. Dreaming...
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I know. Even though I raged when I stayed up all night for that announcement I'll probably end up picking a Model A somewhere down the line.

I think I'm going to try my idea with the Beaglebone first which has tons of I/O and not NDA'ed to hell. The Cortex A8 is about 60% faster per clock than ARM11, but on paper the Videocore IV is supposed to be 2x fast as SGX530.

Not to mention everything on the Beaglebone is open. You can even get schematics and BOM and get PCB printed and reflow it yourself. Not sure how open the rest of the platform is but everything from TI is well documented.

But I do still await Raspberry Pi.
 
Yossarian22 said:
Raspberry Pi Foundation has already rubbed me the wrong way with all the teasing. They're worse than Nvidia, if you can imagine that.

Plus, it really doesn't matter what ARM processor they decide to bolt on to Powercore IV, with such an anemic processor...

By the time this is released I'm sure we'll see several Beaglebone clones.
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The thing to keep in mind is that you are not their target market. They are a non profit and trying to build the cheapest sellable project computer for kids. Whatever you would think is anemic... or whatever your opinion is on anything else they choose to use performancewise... is probably the last thing they would ever consider listening to. It's about the cost.

You. Are. Not. Their. Target. Market.

None of us are.
 
techrat said:
You. Are. Not. Their. Target. Market.

None of us are.
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Exactly! Based on their stated goals, including and possibly most importantly low cost, they have done pretty well IMHO. Hardware limitations are a big part of software development.

We get to play with it and it will be interesting to see what the non intended audience does with it, because it always is. Still excited.
 
dustNbone said:
Exactly! Based on their stated goals, including and possibly most importantly low cost, they have done pretty well IMHO. Hardware limitations are a big part of software development.

We get to play with it and it will be interesting to see what the non intended audience does with it, because it always is. Still excited.
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Even given my reservations with some NDA encumbered parts, I'll just flat out say... they've done a PHENOMENAL job building a very capable, low cost board. This is designed for kids... so we want something that'll give them enough to work with while not being too expensive to worry about them breaking or losing it. They perfectly nailed that goal. Since the setup is defined and relatively static (no multiple speed grades or config options)... anyone writing for this board is going to know exactly what kind of performance other people running their software will get. A bonus when you don't want to turn off kids in schools using the board because the setup wasn't as powerful as the dev kit.

Too many people just look at Mhz and call it shit. Talk about missing the point. It's $35. Not $100+ and $200+ like Beagleboards are and can do video unlike the Sheevaplug based units. (Which also started at $100 each)

Having run a Dockstar for almost 2 years now... I totally look forward to using a RasPi once I can get my hands on one.
 
pxc said:
No, the front page post on http://www.raspberrypi.org/ explains that the first batch is nearly finished with repairs, and later batches may be "slight"ly delayed if there are problems sourcing more magnetic jacks.
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My Bad, miss read it.

The people that run the Raspberry foundation have for, what is, 6 years now, been working on this platform for schools to teach computer science. Not to sound like an a$$ but most of us would never even think of trying something like that. but haters go'en to hate.

I love what they did, its a great idea that has a lot of potential for future development.

The have succeeded with their target platform.
 
techrat said:
The thing to keep in mind is that you are not their target market. They are a non profit and trying to build the cheapest sellable project computer for kids. Whatever you would think is anemic... or whatever your opinion is on anything else they choose to use performancewise... is probably the last thing they would ever consider listening to. It's about the cost.

You. Are. Not. Their. Target. Market.

None of us are.
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On the contrary. I am involved with the ACM and NSF on a broad project trying to get younger people more interested and exposed to computing technologies and the study thereof. Raspberry Pi would be great shot in the arm if we could get it past the teacher's unions at high school level.

My opinion is based on the fact the processor is an afterthought. The whole configuration of booting from GPU and loading binary blobs... what is the point of having the powerful VideoCore IV if documentation is going to be poor/non-existent/NDA to oblivion and the meek ARM11 vs Cortex-A8. However, if Broadcom comes through with an API or solid documentation... yum.

However, it is too early to call this a "success". It is one thing to create a device that is affordable. Now it has to be manufactured, distributed, delivered, supported (technically), and marketed. I hate Apple because all their stuff sucks save for perhaps the Macbook Air, but they sure know how to pitch a product. Not much success if it sits in a warehouse or closet somewhere.

In the US, you're gonna have to pitch to school boards and teacher's unions. Good luck! :D ;)
 
The target is not likely the US because it is based in the UK. I think the target audience is quite different and more price sensitive (aka rest of the world/developing world). This is obviously the first step and still at this price is a very good option. I'm sure one of their future options will be more to your liking.
 
Yossarian22 said:
In the US, you're gonna have to pitch to school boards and teacher's unions. Good luck! :D ;)
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"You'll save hundreds of thousands a year in power costs alone and you can purchase 1,000 of these systems for less than a classroom's worth of computers."

Sold.
 
As someone who spent a year in Indonesia doing IT work for a non profit I can say without doubt that hardware costs are a huge barrier to alot of very interested young minds.
The enthusiasm that I saw even 10 years ago for Linux and open source among the young nerds of Indonesia was unmatched by anything I've witnessed in the West, but access to even a basic PC on any kind of ongoing basis is very scarce just based on the cost and how much they earn, especially as students. The price point of the Pi is within reach of almost anyone, anywhere. $100 would put it out of reach of many of those it's apparently targetted at.
 
Verge said:
Wonder if it can output 24p?
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The SoC is a Broadcom BCM2835. This contains an ARM1176JZFS, with floating point, running at 700Mhz, and a Videocore 4 GPU. The GPU is capable of BluRay quality playback, using H.264 at 40MBits/s. It has a fast 3D core accessed using the supplied OpenGL ES2.0 and OpenVG libraries.

The GPU provides Open GL ES 2.0, hardware-accelerated OpenVG, and 1080p30 H.264 high-profile decode.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs

I wonder if you know how to Google.
 
techrat said:
I wonder if you know how to Google.
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That doesn't really answer his question though. ;)

I'm going to believe that it does, since it's a SoC designed for media playback boxes, which would normally connect to a TV. However, playing back 23.976fps... probably just as well as anyone else does.
 
pxc said:
That doesn't really answer his question though. ;)

I'm going to believe that it does, since it's a SoC designed for media playback boxes, which would normally connect to a TV. However, playing back 23.976fps... probably just as well as anyone else does.
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If it can do 30fps, it can do 24. Framerate is dependent on bandwidth.
 
I just can't wait until they are order able again. I already have plans for a couple of these things. :)
 
pxc said:
That doesn't really answer his question though. ;)

I'm going to believe that it does, since it's a SoC designed for media playback boxes, which would normally connect to a TV. However, playing back 23.976fps... probably just as well as anyone else does.
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Yea but it is being designed for computer use. Heck even the intel chips can't display proper 24p.
 
techrat said:
If it can do 30fps, it can do 24. Framerate is dependent on bandwidth.
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They are not talking about if it's bandwidth restricted and unable to output 24 fps. They are talking about if it can output 24p without using pulldown. Many consumer video devices can not properly do this, and I would be sort of surprised if the Raspberry Pi did it well.

It's part of the HDMI spec, however you need a display and an output device that support 24p without 3:2 pulldown to properly display it. The PS3 can do it with blu ray if I recall. I think mine is set up that way.

I don't really know why people bother worrying about 24p unless they're watching on a Kuro or a fantastic projector. The current batch of LCDs on the market f up the signal 30 ways till Sunday anyway.
 
Yup, the brand spanking new Apple TV3 cannot do 24p, and it was designed specifically for watching media.
 
techrat said:
"You'll save hundreds of thousands a year in power costs alone and you can purchase 1,000 of these systems for less than a classroom's worth of computers."

Sold.
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The overhead in faculty learning new operating system with new suite of similar but different tools will cost much more than the cost of contract with Dell for workstations.
 
Yossarian22 said:
The overhead in faculty learning new operating system with new suite of similar but different tools will cost much more than the cost of contract with Dell for workstations.
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"The kids will figure it out faster than your staff ever will... and that will then become part of the learning experience the Raspberry Pi has to offer."
 
Verge said:
Yea but it is being designed for computer use. Heck even the intel chips can't display proper 24p.
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You're thinking of 23.976fps video playback. 24fps works on pretty much all modern-ish PC hardware (Clarkdale, aka original HD Graphics, and later for Intel). For some dumb reason, Intel needs UAC turned off to play back 23.976fps video properly on HD Graphics 2000/3000 based GPUs. Earlier Intel IGPs did not support 23.976fps playback at all and would fake it by duplicating a one frame every 30-something seconds or so.

One thing that's (not) surprising is that all current cards have imperfect 23.976fps playback on regular monitors, due to the nature of that refresh rate. ;)
 
When home theater people refer to 24p they mean 23.976, and hopefully the pi can do it. If not, oh well it was only 40 bucks, but it will be nice if it's possible.
 
Verge said:
When home theater people refer to 24p they mean 23.976, and hopefully the pi can do it. If not, oh well it was only 40 bucks, but it will be nice if it's possible.
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While 23.976 is much more common than 24.000, it can apply to either when talking about HD video since both user encoded video and pre-recorded media comes in both flavors. Anyways, 23.976 playback is imperfect on all computer playback hardware using a display device not based on NTSC refresh rates. Intel just flubbed it worse by initially attempting to convert it to 24.000 instead of just getting as close as possible as other hardware manufacturers do in the same situation. Then again, the disable UAC "fix" is coming up on nearly a year soon, so claiming it doesn't work isn't entirely accurate.

I posted the link to the technical specifications of the BCM2835 SoC in the long RPi thread if you'd like to search it for a definitive answer. I don't recall seeing it, but I wasn't looking for video specific information.
 
Either way, i have expected ship date of 03/30/12 for 45 bucks. Sales tax sucks.
 
Verge said:
Either way, i have expected ship date of 03/30/12 for 45 bucks. Sales tax sucks.
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Lucky bastard. Be sure to tell us as much as you can. ;)

Oh and pics, too, for fappin...er... i mean... research.
 
techrat said:
Lucky bastard. Be sure to tell us as much as you can. ;)

Oh and pics, too, for fappin...er... i mean... research.
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They bumped it back to august 2012 so i canceled. Apparently my order wasn't early enough for the first batch.

Based on the sales of these, i expect clones to flood the market by then, probably be hundreds of them.
 
techrat said:
The SoC is a Broadcom BCM2835. This contains an ARM1176JZFS, with floating point, running at 700Mhz, and a Videocore 4 GPU. The GPU is capable of BluRay quality playback, using H.264 at 40MBits/s. It has a fast 3D core accessed using the supplied OpenGL ES2.0 and OpenVG libraries.

The GPU provides Open GL ES 2.0, hardware-accelerated OpenVG, and 1080p30 H.264 high-profile decode.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs

I wonder if you know how to Google.
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lol, exactly what I was thinking.
 
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