[Rant] Finally getting sick of Windows Argh!

MrGuvernment

MrGuvernment

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Aug 3, 2004
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i love windows, i have never had a reason for Linux, but over the last 2 weeks i have been using it more and more, from setting up Cobbler as a PXE server, to CentOS for a apache / mod_ssl server et cetera, if i can convicen our CTO i want to take our MySQL DB's to linux as well.

What has finally annoyed me is the dam windows activation, i am finally just sick of it!

We have windows 7 x64 Pro on all of our workstations, about 23 of them, all using OEM license, not duplicates, nothing, but at least once a week a system will claim windows isn't genuine and i have to reactivate it, sometimes this works online, other times it doesn't. 3 times now it hasn't worked online, so i left the system for a day cause i had more important things to be working on, try the next day and it re-activated fine with the key that was already in it.... WTF!

Today, i am moving some websites we host to a CentOS system, since i am sick of dealing with IIS 7, and SSL certs and the limitations windows has on them with things like not being able to use passphrases on an SSL cert, unreal.

So i shutdown our HTTP server running Server 2008 Web edition x64 that has been running for 7 months , rebooted a few times for updates, i plug the server back in at my desk, about 3 mins later, after taking it out of the rack and surprise!!!! Windows claims it isn't activate and wont even let me boot into windows so i can make one last backup of the files, (i have a backup already as i have the sites running on a temp VM for now, but i like to get one myself versus our backup system one last time aswell, call me paranoid.)

Okay fine, pull out my only copy of Server Web 2008 and check the serial on the box, as we only have one HTTP server running server 2008 Web and only I have access to the keys, enter it in, claims it is invalid! says it is already in use, so i figure okay, lets try the VM key included, nope, says it is in use as well, like $#%^$$@# hell it is, we have 1 web server, one server running Web Edition, and this is it!

I am so glad i am moving servers over to CentOS, i am finally after all this time sick of windows and their non-working activation BS that only screws legit customers, so much for considering buying some Server 2008 R2 license for new servers, i would rather spend a few days learning how to do something in CentOS then worry if i reboot a server it wont come up because MS claims it isnt activated.

Unreal.....

Sorry, had to rant, i do still love Windows 7 on my Asus 1201 and on my rig at home, but my patients are wearing thin real fast!
 
Are those OEM installed Windows, are they being reformatted with the key on the case or are those built in-house? For the first option, since there's an OEM key used, OEM cert and matching signature in the BIOS, you don't have to activate at all.

If it's the second or third options, you do have to go through initial activation. Strange that you would see so many that fail in the same way. Using a bad image perhaps? Because that behavior is not normal.
 
they are purchased OEM disks that i installed on servers and workstations, we build out desktops and servers for the most part.

All the workstations they were installed from the retail DVD same with the servers (just getting now a PXE server and WDS set up for future)

That is why it annoys me so much, they work fine for weeks then out of no where aren't registered.
 
I hate to say it, but it really sounds like a flaw in the architecture of your environment. You shouldn't be seeing this at all.

We've got over 300 servers in our environment and I haven't seen a single activation issue. I know of at least 100 Win7 installs (mostly XP still) and haven't had any issues with them, either.
 
MrGuvernment said:
they are purchased OEM disks that i installed on servers and workstations, we build out desktops and servers for the most part.
Click to expand...
That's probably your issue. I have 30 computers total in my business, all from Dell, using a MAK key, and I don't have any issues.
 
Demon10000 said:
I hate to say it, but it really sounds like a flaw in the architecture of your environment. You shouldn't be seeing this at all.

We've got over 300 servers in our environment and I haven't seen a single activation issue. I know of at least 100 Win7 installs (mostly XP still) and haven't had any issues with them, either.
Click to expand...

I have 60 laptops and 7 servers in my company, all running Windows (XP, Vista, 7, 2003 Standard and SBS and 2008 Standard). I've never had authentication problems. All of the laptop's Windows came with the laptops.

Wouldn't there be anything on the server environment that regulate validation? Forefront or ISA server?
 
Servers validate their authenticity the same way the workstations do.

ISA is a proxy server for monitoring and regulating internet traffic and Forefront is a security product. I'm not sure how either would involve validation unless they were preventing the OS from doing so in the first place.

It sounds to me like the machines were never activated, and they rarely shut down. If you're activating an OEM install with a product key from the side of the desktop, odds are you're going to have to call in (at least, thats been my experience with the Lenovo machines I've built).
 
The machines were all activated when the systems were built.

What flaw would there be in our architecture that would cause this?


Desktop:

intel mobo
intel processors (e5 and e7 series)
Kingston ram
WD harddrives

build - install OS from DVD, once done enter in key for activation - activates done, then weeks later, or months later, asks for activation again.....

We don't have volume licensing because the previous honco didn't want to dish out the cash up front for the OS, so i did it by buying them as i needed them.


The servers / workstations all originally activated fine, firewall is not stopping it either, what has me is why would it ask for validation some time after it has already been activated and running fine....

There is no key on the desktop, i am the builder and installer, there are no OEM keys from dell, nadda!

these are retail purchased OEM disks.
 
I've only built about a dozen OEM Win7 machines, though I've done dozens more with MAK and KMS... Of the KMS machines, of course they don't ask for activation... Of the MAK machines, I've never had one ask for reactivation...

Of the OEM installs, I've only have one ask to be reactivated.. And that one popped up the request after a dead mobo was replaced.. But it reactivated without issue...

I'd have to agree with others... What you're seein' ain't normal. A quick google search shows that there have been reports of corrupt DLL's messing with activation status, viruses that kill activation, an application called vistalizator causing problems, and a number of other things that can be problematic... It seems like Microsoft just recently blocked a number of illegally sold MSDN keys that were packaged to look like OEM copies too...

Start here: http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/genuinewindows7/threads
 
will take a look, these are all real looking OEM sold from Directron.com.

the computers they occur are are all locked down via domain policy that people cant install any applications..


mmmmmmmmmmmm, wonder if the domain policies the other guy set up are interfering with something possibly, but this HTTP server wasnt on the domain though.......but it could explain the desktops doing it...
 
I wouldn't expect GPO's to cause any issue... Unless the GPO's are installing odd software or something.

Good luck. Let us know what you find.
 
Why are you building servers and machines for a business? I've got over 10k desktops and servers and have never had an issue with activation with XP, Vista, 7, or any server OS.
 
Zlash said:
Why are you building servers and machines for a business? I've got over 10k desktops and servers and have never had an issue with activation with XP, Vista, 7, or any server OS.
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With 10K machines I would hope you used volume licens media for XP, and volume licensed media with KMS for Vista and Win7.... Of course you've never had problems with activation...

WIth XP VL media, there was no activation... Because of that, when VL keys leaked, anyone could then install XP with no problems (except for the few XP keys that MSFT finally revoked)...

That lead to KMS.... WIth KMS you only have to activate the KMS server... After that, any Vista or WIn7 will auto-activate against the KMS... I don't think I've ever seen an issue with a KMS machine deciding it wasn't activated anymore (though I've never had a KMS machne off-net for 180 days either). :)
 
I build them because it is cheaper and better then getting dell's and HP shipped down to Costa Rica for 5x the normal cost of a system after taxes ad duty, ordering parts and building saves a ton load of money and since i know how to build them the systems are as stable as any dell or HP and if a part dies in CR on a dell, i would have to wait days to get anything to replace it, this way i have spare parts i order and keep handy and problems are fixed instantly.

We have some dells, but our MySQL DB's are custom built systems, we only have 3 of them, the other 2 custom built servers are a storage system and another on for some smaller office apps, our exchange box is a dell as well.

I don't work for some company with hundreds of boxes, so building them makes better sense overall.

Now, if i get approval for the new backend systems i want to get up and running , then they will all be OEM ordered.

over on OCF one person mentioned theft, so it got me thinking perhaps someone was trying to run jellybean key finder on the systems to take the keys, as of about 2 months ago people could run exe on their systems cause my Jr guy took his sweet ass time doing domain profiles! all of the packages are picked up by me, sealed in my office in my desk and don't see the light of day.
 
How much are you really saving when the systems you build require so much labor? :p I'm not sure that importing the parts are saving you "5x" over prebuilt either. Someone gonna call you on that eventually, hopefully not a supervisor who suddenly found a clue.
 
MrGuvernment said:
ordering parts and building saves a ton load of money and since i know how to build them the systems are as stable as any dell or HP and if a part dies in CR on a dell, i would have to wait days to get anything to replace it, this way i have spare parts i order and keep handy and problems are fixed instantly.
Click to expand...


Yeah, and how much time are you spending doing all that building, configuring, and repairing?

Also, you're kind of contradicting yourself here. You make it sound as though building is the better route to go, when you've spent most of the thread bitching about how much maintenance is pissing you off.
 
repairing, next to none, the last thing i had to fix / replace was a harddrive on one of our MySQL systems which i have spares ready, i can honestly say i have not had a desktop or server die on me in about 4 years and the last system that died was because it wasnt on a UPS in our office and power in CR is such crap! If i am building a system it is because a new person started in the office, or we need a new server, which is once every few months and servers less seldom right now cause the ones i built 2-3 years ago are still going strong but the new one i did do i built about 7 months ago.

Building not much time, a server i can get up in a few hours (not including break in and testing, but that needs to be done on an OEM as well) and because i seldom get to do it, i actually enjoy building a system from the ground up and watching it tear apart any task thrown at it, gives me some satisfaction, sure if we needed a lot more hardware i will go OEM, but those need fixing as well eventually and again getting support in Costa Rica can take days for you to even get someone who has a clue or you get the run around as to why they cant replace it or something else, i have been through it already. I have lived here for 8 years and used to swear by OEM, now i cant stand it for down here.

Configuring, doesn't take long to install windows 7 or server 2008 and toss on MySQL, for workstations GPO and all software is pushed out, all i have to do is configure their email account and internal IM account and i am done with that system, i often spend my days learning new things and looking for things to do, build, improve, sure your swamped with 10k of systems and servers, but literally I have.... 3 laptops, 17 desktops and...12 servers to look after. it is by no means a workload for me now that everything is configured and running.

What is pissing me off is the fact windows wont stay activated, i have not once bitch about maintenance of hardware.
 
MrGuvernment said:
I build them because it is cheaper and better then getting dell's and HP shipped down to Costa Rica for 5x the normal cost of a system after taxes ad duty, ordering parts and building saves a ton load of money and since i know how to build them the systems are as stable as any dell or HP and if a part dies in CR on a dell, i would have to wait days to get anything to replace it, this way i have spare parts i order and keep handy and problems are fixed instantly.
Click to expand...

Hey, where in CR are you? That is where I met my wife. I was down there for 9 weeks training their Help Desk since the company I was working at decided to move all the support to CR. She was located in one of the HP buildings in the American Free Zone, Calle La Rusia, Heredia - Belén. The company I was with at the time must of shipped over 500 Lenovo desktops to CR. I can only image the cost as I have learned shipping there is expensive as hell. We pack everything we can in suitcases and take Continental since the first checked bag per person is free.
 
Of all the forums on the Internet, this is the last one I'd ever expect to see people dissing someone for building their own systems. You people just aren't right. :rolleyes:
 
Go ahead and build your personal system. If you're working for a business, school, or such group and building their computers, you're wasting their time and money. Support contracts and having someone to blame are everything.
 
Deadjasper said:
Of all the forums on the Internet, this is the last one I'd ever expect to see people dissing someone for building their own systems. You people just aren't right. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Arainach said:
Go ahead and build your personal system. If you're working for a business, school, or such group and building their computers, you're wasting their time and money. Support contracts and having someone to blame are everything.
Click to expand...

I think that Arainach's point is what people had in their minds. Building the machines isn't the issue, it's SUPPORTING them that becomes the problem because you now have assumed a LOT of resposibility that's just waiting to bite you in the ass.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think that Arainach's point is what people had in their minds. Building the machines isn't the issue, it's SUPPORTING them that becomes the problem because you now have assumed a LOT of resposibility that's just waiting to bite you in the ass.
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If he was stateside then you would be absolutely correct. However, he is balancing the TCO of purchasing through and OEM with slow support (Central America, yay) or doing his own support and paying significantly less by avoiding import tariff. I cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid the import tariff, in Colombia computers cost significantly more than they do in the states. When I establish residency here I will be making all my computer purchases stateside and flying them down with me.

Here is an example, the Dell Mini 10 is $300USD, in Colombia it is $400 for the same computer. Costa Rica is even worse, $624 for the same computer.
 
Dew said:
If he was stateside then you would be absolutely correct. However, he is balancing the TCO of purchasing through and OEM with slow support (Central America, yay) or doing his own support and paying significantly less by avoiding import tariff. I cannot really blame him for wanting to avoid the import tariff, in Colombia computers cost significantly more than they do in the states. When I establish residency here I will be making all my computer purchases stateside and flying them down with me.

Here is an example, the Dell Mini 10 is $300USD, in Colombia it is $400 for the same computer. Costa Rica is even worse, $624 for the same computer.
Click to expand...

Well if he has to deal with that then it makes sense then to do the work himself but couldn't he find someone local to support his machines?
 
heatlesssun said:
Well if he has to deal with that then it makes sense then to do the work himself but couldn't he find someone local to support his machines?
Click to expand...

Isn't that what Desktop Support is for? Just because our computers have a Dell warranty doesn't mean the clients are calling Dell for support. Whether we built our own computers or bought them through Dell, we still do all the repairs on them. The only good part about Dell is having a 3 year warranty on all the parts, so if something goes bad, they ship you a new part.
 
I work with about 80 pc's and 6 servers at my work and never had an activation issue, maybe you got some counterfeit software, there was a giant bust a while ago and the keys could be getting flagged. There is even a site on microsoft that will show you some counterfeits and some are pretty much the same thing. Here is the gallery.
 
I'm using VLK Win2k3/Win7/WinXP installations at my company. Activation is something for hapless customers helpdesks can use to extract money with when it goes wrong. It's the one thing about Windows I'm sure we all hate and loathe :)
 
Elledan said:
I'm using VLK Win2k3/Win7/WinXP installations at my company. Activation is something for hapless customers helpdesks can use to extract money with when it goes wrong. It's the one thing about Windows I'm sure we all hate and loathe :)
Click to expand...

I don't hate it. :p
 
I love Ubuntu... never managed to make a full transition, though.

I keep hoping for more widespread acceptance of the *nix platform. Doesn't make much sense that it hasn't.
 
JestrzPlague said:
I love Ubuntu... never managed to make a full transition, though.

I keep hoping for more widespread acceptance of the *nix platform. Doesn't make much sense that it hasn't.
Click to expand...

It takes money and time to port applications and drivers to another platform. There has to be an incentive. So far Linux only seems to make sense for server purposes, hence it gets the most support there.

Desktop & workstations means Windows these days, for all intents and purposes.
 
Elledan said:
It takes money and time to port applications and drivers to another platform. There has to be an incentive. So far Linux only seems to make sense for server purposes, hence it gets the most support there.

Desktop & workstations means Windows these days, for all intents and purposes.
Click to expand...

You mean.. free isn't an incentive when compared to the ~$200/copy it costs for Win7 Ultimate? I work for a company with 800 employees. If it costs just $70 to upgrade to Win7 from WinXP, that costs the company $56,000.

Yes, it's difficult to port applications and drivers to other platforms, but the incentive for companies and individuals to switch to a great OS like Ubuntu is huge.

Hopefully we'll see greater adoption as Ubuntu becomes more user friendly.
 
Demon10000 said:
I hate to say it, but it really sounds like a flaw in the architecture of your environment. You shouldn't be seeing this at all.

We've got over 300 servers in our environment and I haven't seen a single activation issue. I know of at least 100 Win7 installs (mostly XP still) and haven't had any issues with them, either.
Click to expand...

I agree. I've worked in environments that are more than 100 times larger than the one you describe without ever seeing anything like that. I've only ever had to reactivate Windows on systems where a ton of hardware changes such as motherboard replacements have occurred.
 
JestrzPlague said:
You mean.. free isn't an incentive when compared to the ~$200/copy it costs for Win7 Ultimate? I work for a company with 800 employees. If it costs just $70 to upgrade to Win7 from WinXP, that costs the company $56,000.

Yes, it's difficult to port applications and drivers to other platforms, but the incentive for companies and individuals to switch to a great OS like Ubuntu is huge.

Hopefully we'll see greater adoption as Ubuntu becomes more user friendly.
Click to expand...
And for an application of reasonable size, it'll likely cost 56K or more just to port the app. Then there's training costs. And support costs. The only incentive to port apps to Linux is if Linux has a user base.

Linux doesn't have to become user friendly. It has to become Sysadmin friendly. Microsoft has an entire ecosystem built around managing large numbers of machines, deploying security policies, etc., etc. that Linux currently can't match.
 
JestrzPlague said:
You mean.. free isn't an incentive when compared to the ~$200/copy it costs for Win7 Ultimate? I work for a company with 800 employees. If it costs just $70 to upgrade to Win7 from WinXP, that costs the company $56,000.

Yes, it's difficult to port applications and drivers to other platforms, but the incentive for companies and individuals to switch to a great OS like Ubuntu is huge.

Hopefully we'll see greater adoption as Ubuntu becomes more user friendly.
Click to expand...

Well, to give an example...

I am the owner of a small game studio. We are in the last stages of developing our first game. What do we develop it for? Windows. We have looked at Linux and OS X, but when summing up the costs involved in porting the game (game engine + libraries) to these OSs it quickly became clear that it just isn't worth it. We'd never get our investment out of it, let alone break even.

Porting to another platform isn't worth it unless it's a trivial app or there's a significant market you're trying to reach. For us porting to the consoles would make a heck of a lot more sense, even after investing in a development kit.

Also, calling Linux a great OS is a subjective thing. I use Linux for server purposes. I still prefer the BSDs, though, as they're a lot more consistent, use a single code base for the entire OS, not just the kernel, and are generally of far higher quality. I would want to see BSD get more attention from hardware manufacturers before Linux.
 
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