Radeon 6000 series: Disappointing Pricing??

How do you feel about AMD 6000 series announced Launch prices?

  • Too high!

    Votes: 41 14.4%
  • Just right!

    Votes: 159 56.0%
  • They came in cheaper than I expected!

    Votes: 50 17.6%
  • Mixed feelings/Confused.

    Votes: 34 12.0%

  • Total voters
    284

kac77

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I voted for "Just right".

Basically my full response is this: if AMD is accurate in everything that they have said, then the pricing is perfectly in line with what it should be. AMD I think is able to deliver on their promises too, in the sense that for a company like them, they've obviously procured 3080's and 3090's. In other words: they know precisely what they're up against (as they can test their competitions cards directly). And I think Lisa Su is more about bringing straight facts rather than the Raja hype strategy. She's ready to put her money where her mouth is.

Again, if all the above is true then the pricing makes 100% sense and I would say more than fair.
Until she came along AMD was.... well.... pitiful. She seems to know how to do things. If you post benches then they better be close none of this over-hype BS. No one wants that.
 
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The 6900XT actually seems a bit high because we already know Nvidia is preparing a 3080Ti with ~3090 performance with probably 12GB of RAM. It seems almost certain the 6900XT will need to have a price cut sometime after (or even before) the official launch date.
 

Teenk9

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The 6900XT actually seems a bit high because we already know Nvidia is preparing a 3080Ti with ~3090 performance with probably 12GB of RAM. It seems almost certain the 6900XT will need to have a price cut sometime after (or even before) the official launch date.

Source?
 

ELox

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Wasn't the benchmarks for the 6800 the only ones not including SAM and/or RAGE benefits?

Does this mean on a Zen3 setup the 6800 might be about 25%faster than the 3070?

I wonder if they did that to give the appearance of more performance difference between the 6800 and 6800XT than actually exists.

If so the 6800 is 20-25% faster than 3070, more future proof VRAM, better power efficiency for $79 more. Seems respectable.
 
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TheRookie

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AMD has assessed its inventory level and the demand of the market and set its prices base on that assessment.

Then there are the usual whining from people who thinks that AMD only exists to undercut NVIDIA, rather than a company that has done extensive research to determine prices that would maximize profit.

]but the 6800 looks like a HUGE missed opportunity.
The 6800 performs about on par with the 3070 but costs $79 MORE??
It's not "on par with the GeForce RTX 3070".

AMD intends for the Radeon RX 6800 to compete with a possible GeForce RTX 3070 Ti and priced it accordingly.

Radeon RX 6700 XT should be competing with the GeForce RTX 3070

The 6900XT is $500 less than the 3090 ok, good. But is it worth $350 more for a 10% performance bump over the 6800XT? Of course NOT! I blame Nvidia for setting a bad precedent but I blame AMD for taking the bait.
Flagship products are almost always price poorly in terms of performance/dollar, so that is hardly surprising.

Also, Radeon RX 6900 XT needs fully working dies and with dies that big, relatively few dies would make the cut.


Instead of setting the prices as competitive as possible to win marketshare, AMD bumped up their prices to unprecedent levels, and they are not the GPU performance leaders yet. This price bump is premature.

Prices I would have liked to see:
6900XT $799
6800XT $599
6800 $449
Why not free?

AMD would have 100% market share.
 
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gocubs418

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AMD marketing team is very good, extremely talented.

Build a GPU with performance hinged on complementary products in their portfolio.

It's brilliant, absolutely stinking brilliant. It will win over a lot of people. I thought 6800 is priced in no man's land, 6800XT is probably perfect to a pinch overpriced, and 6900 is mucho perfecto.

That being said, it doesn't mean shit until the reviews/third party benchmarks come out.
 

MrGuvernment

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TheRookie that makes sense, they are just going back over NVIDIA's play book where they do that, release the stock version, then see how things go, then throw out a Ti version several months later, a slap in the face to the original buyers..
 

NobleX13

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The RX 6800 has double the VRAM of the RTX 3070 for $79 more. Sign me up.

EDIT: I also feel like this is Kepler vs GCN all over again. Team Green is being stingy with VRAM... AGAIN. :(
 

KazeoHin

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I was hoping for a 32GB card. Then it would be a pre-order.



(this is for Blender, not games)
 

KazeoHin

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AMD has assessed its inventory level and the demand of the market and set its prices base on that assessment.

Then there are the usual whining from people who thinks that AMD only exists to undercut NVIDIA, rather than a company that has done extensive research to determine prices that would maximize profit.


It's not "on par with the GeForce RTX 3070".

AMD intends for the Radeon RX 6800 to compete with a possible GeForce RTX 3070 Ti and priced it accordingly.

Radeon RX 6700 XT should be competing with the GeForce RTX 3070


Flagship products are almost always price poorly in terms of performance/dollar, so that is hardly surprising.

Also, Radeon RX 6900 XT needs fully working dies and with dies that big, relatively few dies would make the cut.



Why not free?

AMD would have 100% market share.

Not true, people would still buy Nvidia.
 

LukeTbk

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I was hoping for a 32GB card. Then it would be a pre-order.



(this is for Blender, not games)
Before seeing any Blender benchmark and reviews ?

Considering that in some blenderworkload the 3090 is more than twice as fast than a 2080ti/Radeon 7 and how good denoiser / AI is for something like a blender viewport type of task, would it not be worth it to wait for comparison between the 2 ?

Or maybe you workload won't fit in 24 gig and the question was between having to pay for 2 3090 versus the chance to get just one big 32 gig from AMD ?
 

emphy

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If the performance claims hold up under scrutiny, the pricing is pretty solid.

What I do have issue with is amd following nvidia's high end product segmentation into expensive, ridiculously expensive, ludicrously expensive video cards and calling it their "full stack" of the the 6000 series lineup.
 

KazeoHin

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Are you sure? Free is pretty tempting.

I've said for years that Nvidia could sell a pile of manure with a green Gforce logo on it for $999 more quickly than AMD could give away their products for free. Nvidia just has too much Mindshare.
 

TheRookie

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What I do have issue with is amd following nvidia's high end product segmentation into expensive, ridiculously expensive, ludicrously expensive video cards and calling it their "full stack" of the the 6000 series lineup.
Complaining for the sake of complaining is getting ridiculous.

First complain that AMD doesn't compete in the high end....

...then complain that AMD follows NVIDIA into the expensive/high end segment
 
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kac77

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Complaining for the sake of complaining is getting ridiculous.

First complain that AMD doesn't compete in the high end....

...then complain that AMD follows NVIDIA into the expensive/high end segment
Meanwhile these same people laugh at $200+ over MSRP and 100w increases like, "what problem?" "MSRP? Let's define that. "

Enough is enough.
 
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noko

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Meanwhile these same people laugh at $200+ over MSRP and 100w increases like, "what problem?" "MSRP? Let's define that. "

Enough is enough.
AMD pricing look great for the AIBs it appears. They can make cheaper versions below MSRP or above. DDR6 can be obtain anywhere that sells it to them vice having to go to Nvidia for DDR6x. Nvidia MSRP is below what the AIBs can make the cards, the BOM with GPU and Memory makes the $699 RTX 6080 virtually not worth making, Nvidia having an advantage at that price point since they make it. It is not as if the 6800XT is $50 cheaper, if in good supply, it will be over $100 cheaper. We have to see what the 3070 price jacks up to as well. There are 3080's, ASUS Strix going for $849 which makes that 6900XT with more ram and better performance that much more appealing.

Still we have to wait for independent reviews and see what kind of supply AMD will have for us. Could be a very AMD Christmas.
 

Nimisys

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I'm happy with the 6900XT and 6800XT pricing, it's the 6800 that throws me. The lack of a 500$ sku is the issue. For all intents the 6800 seems to have been aimed at the 16gb 3070 and the 600$ price point. Which in that realm makes its pricing perfect. But that sku doesn't exist and you are asking a 10+% premium over the 3070 and the 500$ price point.
 

TheRookie

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I'm happy with the 6900XT and 6800XT pricing, it's the 6800 that throws me. The lack of a 500$ sku is the issue. For all intents the 6800 seems to have been aimed at the 16gb 3070 and the 600$ price point. Which in that realm makes its pricing perfect. But that sku doesn't exist and you are asking a 10+% premium over the 3070 and the 500$ price point.
GeForce RTX 3070's intended competitor is the unannounced Radeon RX 6700 XT
 

ELox

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I'm happy with the 6900XT and 6800XT pricing, it's the 6800 that throws me. The lack of a 500$ sku is the issue. For all intents the 6800 seems to have been aimed at the 16gb 3070 and the 600$ price point. Which in that realm makes its pricing perfect. But that sku doesn't exist and you are asking a 10+% premium over the 3070 and the 500$ price point.
10% price premium for 15-20% performance increase. Price for performance is good.

I agree the lack of a $500 sku is an issue. Might be enough to convince me to go 3070 even though the 6800 seems worth the 79 more
 

Nimisys

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GeForce RTX 3070's intended competitor is the unannounced Radeon RX 6700 XT
Probably. But today, the 6800 is still priced above it's current closest announced competitor.

That being said, it is compelling.
 

KazeoHin

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I can't think of the last time AMD had an actual full-lineup.

It was probably the 200 or 300 series...
Since then they had Fury, which had no lineup (no low high or top-end), it was just a card, then Polaris had the 460, 470 and 480, but no high-end, then polaris 500 which had 560-590 but no high end, then Vega, which had no low-end (or even top-end), then the Radeon VII which was just a single product, then the 5500-5700 which had no high-end.

Will we see a full-lineup of new chips? 6300 all the way to 6900? replacing their whole stack?

I hope so.
 
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Decko87

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I can't think of the last time AMD had an actual full-lineup.

It was probably the 200 or 300 series...
Since then they had Fury, which had no lineup (no low high or top-end), it was just a card, then Polaris had the 460, 470 and 480, but no high-end, then polaris 500 which had 560-590 but no high end, then Vega, which had no low-end (or even top-end), then the Radeon VII which was just a single product, then the 5500-5700 which had no high-end.

Will we see a full-lineup of new chips? 6300 all the way to 6900? replacing their whole stack?

I hope so.
I know the 6700 and 6700 XT are coming, that'll compete with the 3060 / 3060 ti. So more than likely, yeah it'll be a full product stack eventually.
 

TheRookie

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I know the 6700 and 6700 XT are coming, that'll compete with the 3060 / 3060 ti. So more than likely, yeah it'll be a full product stack eventually.
...Radeon RX 6700 XT is lieky intended to compete with the GeForce RTX 3070
 

TheRookie

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I can't think of the last time AMD had an actual full-lineup.

It was probably the 200 or 300 series...
Since then they had Fury, which had no lineup (no low high or top-end), it was just a card, then Polaris had the 460, 470 and 480, but no high-end, then polaris 500 which had 560-590 but no high end, then Vega, which had no low-end (or even top-end), then the Radeon VII which was just a single product, then the 5500-5700 which had no high-end.

Will we see a full-lineup of new chips? 6300 all the way to 6900? replacing their whole stack?

I hope so.
With plenty of older Radeon 5000 series cards in-stock, AMD probably slash their prices instead.

At least until inventory is depleted.
 

vjhawk

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I'm sure you would have liked to see those prices. However, the days when graphics cards had tons of margin on the top end are long gone. AMD may not be able to sell a 20GB 2.4GHz capable GPU with billions of transistors built on a 7nm process and a 300w TDP for $799.

The margin that video card manufacturers makes is actually something I've been wondering about. I know that a lot of it has to do with yields of the actual silicon from the wafers, die size, and all that and eventually the margins and yields become better as the process is perfected over time. However it's anyone's guess as to the actual yields and margins for manufacturers such as Nvida and AMD.

I believe that AMD struggled to make margins and meet demands on Vega due in part choosing to use HBM2 memory which was very expensive and reportedly experienced some shortages which I presume would increase costs and lower availability of stock.

Would you happen to have any contacts who know the actual margins that certain cards profited for the manufacturers. For example is the margin for say a 2080 Ti more like $400 whereas a 2080 Super was only like $200? What are the "margins" for a 3080 vs the 2080 Ti. How can Nvidia afford to push better performance but for a $500 lower MSRP?

I don't think merely pointing to increased transistor count tells the whole story of what margins these manufacturers actually make from their cards. A more detailed report would be useful information! Thanks!
 

Rainstar

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Voted just right. I wanted 6800xt be $700 but beats 3080, and wanted 6900xt to beat 3090 at $1200.

but RT and DLSS will come into play here, will watch closely gaming performance benches to see which AMD CPU and which AMD GPU is best bang for buck for 4k, willing to sacrifice to medium settings until 4k 120 is doable Ultra settings. perhaps at AM5/next gen GPU
 

KazeoHin

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...Radeon RX 6700 XT is lieky intended to compete with the GeForce RTX 3070
Nvidia wouldn't let that happen. Just like with the launch of the 5700 and immediate reaction of the 2070/2070Super, They won't let AMD have a X7XX compete with their XX7X (or 6, or 5, or 8, etc.).

If it was as simple as Radeon 7 and Geforce 7 competing with each other, then the average buyer would find it slightly easier to just assume that Radeon and GeForce are the same quality and power. Nvidia wants it to seem like Radeon needs 7 to compete with GeForce's 6. This makes Geforce seem more potent.
 

LukeTbk

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The margin that video card manufacturers makes is actually something I've been wondering about. I know that a lot of it has to do with yields of the actual silicon from the wafers, die size, and all that and eventually the margins and yields become better as the process is perfected over time. However it's anyone's guess as to the actual yields and margins for manufacturers such as Nvida and AMD.
A company like NVIDIA gross margin are incredibly high:
https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/... the previous quarter.&text=on April 27, 2020.

50%-60-65%

I imagine the AI/car markers/etc... could be higher than the gaming segment, but in 2020

Revenue: 10,918 millions
Cost of revenues: 4,150 millions

R&D was quite high too, R&D plus administrative cost was almost has high as the cost of making their cards from A to shipping.
 

RareAir23

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Well for me, of the 3 cards announced today I think they nailed the price on the RX 6900 XT and RX 6800 XT. $999 and $649 are really good for the role they are meant to play in video card competition between them and nVIDIA. The RX 6800 is a little high for an RTX 3070 competitor. The highest I would've charged for that one is $549. Lowest? $449. That's what is on my mind and until next time I am out!
 

NightReaver

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The price is just fine in relation to Nvidia's offerings. I would have liked to see a direct competitor to the 3070, however.

Y'all can have fun with your $550+ gpus, too rich for my wallet :D

(And too powerful for my display anyways)
 

Dan_D

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The margin that video card manufacturers makes is actually something I've been wondering about. I know that a lot of it has to do with yields of the actual silicon from the wafers, die size, and all that and eventually the margins and yields become better as the process is perfected over time. However it's anyone's guess as to the actual yields and margins for manufacturers such as Nvida and AMD.

I believe that AMD struggled to make margins and meet demands on Vega due in part choosing to use HBM2 memory which was very expensive and reportedly experienced some shortages which I presume would increase costs and lower availability of stock.

Would you happen to have any contacts who know the actual margins that certain cards profited for the manufacturers. For example is the margin for say a 2080 Ti more like $400 whereas a 2080 Super was only like $200? What are the "margins" for a 3080 vs the 2080 Ti. How can Nvidia afford to push better performance but for a $500 lower MSRP?

I don't think merely pointing to increased transistor count tells the whole story of what margins these manufacturers actually make from their cards. A more detailed report would be useful information! Thanks!

No, I don't know the precise costs. I just put it out there that it's a possibility that NVIDIA simply can't sell a an RTX 3080 Ti 20GB GPU for $799.99. I don't know that they can't. I'm simply saying that what we want something to cost and what the manufacturer needs to price it at are entirely different things.
 

bwang

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The 6800 XT is priced right where it should be. In the end, the extra 6GB of VRAM is going to make about as much of a difference as better ray tracing support - both will enable some visual perks (higher res textures vs better lighting effects), neither will be a huge deal breaker. Certainly there will be the odd game that will demand the extra 6GB, and the odd game that that looks much better with RTX on, but I'd expect the user experience to be about the same on both sides. If you use pro apps, there is a clear winner - Maya and KeyShot users ought to go with the RTX, and Resolve users should buy the Radeon. If you only game, it's likely going to come down to street prices, promos, drivers, and personal preference to break the effective tie.

The 6900 XT is meme levels of expensive, I don't realistically see why anyone would pay an extra $350 for 10% extra performance and nothing else. The 3090 is incredibly expensive because its 24GB of VRAM enables pro applications that don't run on the 3080; the 6900 XT doesn't have that extra VRAM so you are way better off with a pair of vanilla 6800's if you really care about throughput. Its existence is also a little concerning from a technology standpoint; it means that TSMC 7nm yields are not great.

The vanilla 6800 is the odd one out. The extra $79 over the 3070 is unfortunately a large issue at this price point; it also puts it a little too close to the 6800 XT for comfort. As a gamer, I'd almost certainly buy the 6800 XT or the 3080 instead, because the performance difference means the difference between 1440p and 4K. It's not a bad deal per se, since it looks like it will outperform the 3070 and has twice the VRAM, but on the other hand, I doubt its fast enough to truly take advantage of its 16GB of memory. If nothing else, it greatly lowers the barrier to entry to a 16GB card, and finally obsolesces the Radeon VII (at least when Mac drivers show up).
 

kirbyrj

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No, I don't know the precise costs. I just put it out there that it's a possibility that NVIDIA simply can't sell a an RTX 3080 Ti 20GB GPU for $799.99. I don't know that they can't. I'm simply saying that what we want something to cost and what the manufacturer needs to price it at are entirely different things.

If it is to be believed that at $699, the FE is too low of margins for Nvidia, I find it impossible to believe that the 3080Ti would "only" be $799 with double the memory and likely TSMC silicon. My bet would be $999 all day.
 
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