R7 3700X on X370 with 3600 ram?

travm

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I'm considering upgrading my 1600 cpu. I have a gigabyte x370 gaming. Currently with Gskill 3200-14 ram.
Since ryzen works better with faster ram(IIRC 3600 is a sweet spot for the 3xxx) I'm wondering if that would work?

I'm thinking it might since the memory controller is entirely in the cpu.
Anyone done something similar?
 
google says there are plenty of people doing it, just make sure the bios is updated.
 
google says there are plenty of people doing it, just make sure the bios is updated.
Hmm, my Google fu must be weak. I found lots of questions asked, no good answers. I know the 3700x will run with the appropriate bios, but will the 3600mhz ram run at SPD?
 
Hmm, my Google fu must be weak. I found lots of questions asked, no good answers. I know the 3700x will run with the appropriate bios, but will the 3600mhz ram run at SPD?
sorry, i used my bing-jitsu, not my google-fu. plenty saying they are running it fine, some at c16 for higher end sticks, most at c18.
 
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sorry, i used my bing-jitsu, not my google-fu. plenty saying they are running it fine, some at c16 for higher end sticks, most at c18.
That's what I was hoping, likely another 3-5 year style upgrade. Give it some quick ram to help the legs.
 
I'm considering upgrading my 1600 cpu. I have a gigabyte x370 gaming. Currently with Gskill 3200-14 ram.
Since ryzen works better with faster ram(IIRC 3600 is a sweet spot for the 3xxx) I'm wondering if that would work?

I'm thinking it might since the memory controller is entirely in the cpu.
Anyone done something similar?
If your 3200 ram has cas timing of 14----you won't get a lot of benefit from average 3600mhz RAM. If the 3600 has fairly low timings like cas 16 and you take care to tweak sub timings and infinity fabric speeds----you will get some benefit. But not enough to warrant the money, IMO.

But do go ahead and get a newer model Ryzen. the difference between Zen 1 and Zen 2 is huge.
 
If your 3200 ram has cas timing of 14----you won't get a lot of benefit from average 3600mhz RAM. If the 3600 has fairly low timings like cas 16 and you take care to tweak sub timings and infinity fabric speeds----you will get some benefit. But not enough to warrant the money, IMO.

But do go ahead and get a newer model Ryzen. the difference between Zen 1 and Zen 2 is huge.
I am under the understanding that ram clock speed is more important with ryzen because the Infinity fabric runs at RAM speed. Higher ram speed give better multi core performance, up to 3600mhz. Above that a divider is used which reduces cpu performance. CAS latency is irrelevant, as it doesn't affect the Infinity fabric, only ram bandwidth. So trading cas latency for MHz is beneficial to a point.
 
You should take a look at performance numbers for RAM in general, but also for Ryzen, specifically. and maybe even specifically for your motherboard.

Here is one example:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/

The performance your computer gets from RAM is an interplay between the RAM speed, the latency of the timings, and how well your motherboard is tuned to work with that RAM. Each program will respond better or worse to an improvement in speed vs. latency timings. Of course, improving both is always best. But that can also get expensive.

Another thing to look out for are reviews of RAM in general. When you look at charts with a lot of ram, showing their performance for the same apps: you can become to understand how different memory modules can be inherently better or worse, for different hardware configs. Such that, a stick of RAM which should be slower on paper----performs as good or better than "faster" RAM----on that reviewer's hardware.

There is also the recent commotion over dual rank vs. single rank. See: dual rank RAM modules are usually more performant. But it can be tough to "know" you are buying dual rank. For many brands, its a lottery.

Anyway. Your 3200mhz ram has solidly low timings and I think that you will find, it is just fine :)

*its also very possible that if you buy ram right now and put it into your older motherboard----the XMP/DOCP profile may not work. It depends on how well the bios updates for that motherboard have kept up with newer RAM compatibility.
 
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It's not the RAM speed I'm trying to increase. The cpu literally is faster with higher clocked ram. It's internally built into and specific to Ryzen and their implementation of Infinity fabric. 3600mhz is the sweet spot.
 
It's not the RAM speed I'm trying to increase. The cpu literally is faster with higher clocked ram. It's internally built into and specific to Ryzen and their implementation of Infinity fabric. 3600mhz is the sweet spot.
I think your are conflating terms and ideas. End result is that 3200mhz DDR4 with Cas 14, isn't strictly worse than 3600mhz with average timings like 17/18/19. Performance is largely the same. There are a couple of things here or there, which favor the extra mhz of the 3600 or would favor the lower latency of your ram with cas 14.
But even then, "favor" is only something which would be noticeable, if you were doing a whole lot of those one or two things. Its not a clear upgrade, which will meaningfully increase the life of a 3700x.
 
I think your are conflating terms and ideas. End result is that 3200mhz DDR4 with Cas 14, isn't strictly worse than 3600mhz with average timings like 17/18/19. Performance is largely the same. There are a couple of things here or there, which favor the extra mhz of the 3600 or would favor the lower latency of your ram with cas 14.
But even then, "favor" is only something which would be noticeable, if you were doing a whole lot of those one or two things. Its not a clear upgrade, which will meaningfully increase the life of a 3700x.
You are completely missing what I'm saying.
I understand ram timings and clocks, and how they affect RAM performance.

You should read up on Infinity fabric.
Performance increases with ram clock speed on multithreaded applications is noted across the board. Not fringe cases. 3600mhz ram increases the cpu speed on ryzen.

Also in the scope of the upgrade would be a bargain basement mobo to upgrade another older pc with the old cpu. So more ram is required anyway.
 
You are completely missing what I'm saying.
I understand ram timings and clocks, and how they affect RAM performance.

You should read up on Infinity fabric.
Performance increases with ram clock speed on multithreaded applications is noted across the board. Not fringe cases. 3600mhz ram increases the cpu speed on ryzen.

Also in the scope of the upgrade would be a bargain basement mobo to upgrade another older pc with the old cpu. So more ram is required anyway.
Most of us are well aware of what you're saying.

The problem is that you're not understanding the interplay of RAM speed with latency which people are trying to explain. The RAM speed and matched Infinity Fabric speed isn't the end all be all of performance regarding RAM. 3200C14 RAM is probably going to perform better in most typical use cases than something like 3600C18 simply because of the lower latency. The performance difference between your 3200C14 RAM and most 3600 RAM isn't going to be great and likely not noticeable outside of benchmarks. The difference would be smaller and possibly in your favor is you're able to run your current RAM at higher speeds especially if you don't need to increase timings. Even with increased timings it's possible that your RAM could run 3600C16 which is about the best 3600 RAM you can get without paying stupid high prices.

If you're running software which is extremely sensitive to memory bandwidth, it might be worth getting new RAM. If you're not running software which is extremely memory bandwidth sensitive you'd probably be better off using the RAM you currently have even if at the XMP settings and not bothering to see if you can get a bit more out of it.

My personal recommendation would be get the new CPU and use your current RAM. If you're not satisfied with the performance then it might be worth getting new RAM. Keep in mind there is no guarantee you'll even be able to run the higher RAM speeds. The memory controller on the CPU has a good chance of being able to run RAM at 3600 but your motherboard may not be able to do so. If this is the case new RAM would be a complete waste of time and money.

If I remember correctly, there was no guarantee that Zen2 CPUs can run 3600 stably. Many of them could but not all. It's similar with my 2600x. I bought a set of 3200C16 (I was on a really tight budget and couldn't justify C14) to run with the 2600x and I was lucky and the XMP settings worked perfectly even on a b450 chipset board. That's not the case for many of the Zen+ CPUs no matter what motherboard they were running on. 2933 tended to be the typical max speed for Zen+. Zen2 has a better memory controller but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed 3600 RAM speeds. 3200 should not be a problem but 3600 may not be feasible. It wasn't until Zen3 that 3600 RAM speeds were commonplace.
 
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Most of us are well aware of what you're saying.

The problem is that you're not understanding the interplay of RAM speed with latency which people are trying to explain. The RAM speed and matched Infinity Fabric speed isn't the end all be all of performance regarding RAM. 3200C14 RAM is probably going to perform better in most typical use cases than something like 3600C18 simply because of the lower latency. The performance difference between your 3200C14 RAM and most 3600 RAM isn't going to be great and likely not noticeable outside of benchmarks. The difference would be smaller and possibly in your favor is you're able to run your current RAM at higher speeds especially if you don't need to increase timings. Even with increased timings it's possible that your RAM could run 3600C16 which is about the best 3600 RAM you can get without paying stupid high prices.

If you're running software which is extremely sensitive to memory bandwidth, it might be worth getting new RAM. If you're not running software which is extremely memory bandwidth sensitive you'd probably be better off using the RAM you currently have even if at the XMP settings and not bothering to see if you can get a bit more out of it.

My personal recommendation would be get the new CPU and use your current RAM. If you're not satisfied with the performance then it might be worth getting new RAM. Keep in mind there is no guarantee you'll even be able to run the higher RAM speeds. The memory controller on the CPU has a good chance of being able to run RAM at 3600 but your motherboard may not be able to do so. If this is the case new RAM would be a complete waste of time and money.

If I remember correctly, there was no guarantee that Zen2 CPUs can run 3600 stably. Many of them could but not all. It's similar with my 2600x. I bought a set of 3200C16 (I was on a really tight budget and couldn't justify C14) to run with the 2600x and I was lucky and the XMP settings worked perfectly even on a b450 chipset board. That's not the case for many of the Zen+ CPUs no matter what motherboard they were running on. 2933 tended to be the typical max speed for Zen+. Zen2 has a better memory controller but that doesn't mean you're guaranteed 3600 RAM speeds. 3200 should not be a problem but 3600 may not be feasible. It wasn't until Zen3 that 3600 RAM speeds were commonplace.
I completely understand the relationship between latency and clock speed. It's just completely irrelevant to this thread.

For the third time, nowhere did I mention memory bandwidth. I'm not talking about memory bandwidth. I want to increase the cpu performance by running the Infinity fabric at higher clocks.
 
I completely understand the relationship between latency and clock speed. It's just completely irrelevant to this thread.

For the third time, nowhere did I mention memory bandwidth. I'm not talking about memory bandwidth. I want to increase the cpu performance by running the Infinity fabric at higher clocks.
I am not talking about memory bandwidth or only memory dependent performance numbers. I am talking about the end performance of the PC. The article I linked does not show memory bandwidth tests. It shows application and game performance.

For the end performance of the PC (of the CPU) ---- 3600mhz Cas 17/18/19 will not be strict upgrade from 3200mhz cas 14.
 
What you want is a 4 slot board and fill them all , if you have 4 x 8Gb sticks is better then 2 x 16Gb at the same speed and cas so just get a matching set of what you already have then wasting money like other says .
 
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What you want is a 4 slot board and fill them all , if you have 4 x 8Gb sticks is better then 2 x 16Gb at the same speed and cas so just get a matching set of what you already have then wasting money like other says .
that's only if the 16GB modules are single rank. Most 16Gb are dual rank.

dual rank is dual rank. if your inidividual sticks are dual rank, then it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 4 sticks.

the point of 4 sticks---is for single rank sticks. Your motherboard will use each pair as a "double" rank. There are a lot of single rank 8GB sticks out there. Because its easier to make high speed single rank Dimms for competitive prices.
 
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I completely understand the relationship between latency and clock speed. It's just completely irrelevant to this thread.

For the third time, nowhere did I mention memory bandwidth. I'm not talking about memory bandwidth. I want to increase the cpu performance by running the Infinity fabric at higher clocks.
No, you don't understand the relationship with clock speed and latency because I explained the practical effects and you blew it off as irrelevant.

I'm well aware that it's almost always best to run RAM and Infinity Fabric at the same speed and that's the crux of the argument. At every point of my explanation the Infinity Fabric is the same speed as RAM. Higher Infinity Fabric and RAM synchronous speeds are not always going to have better performance if the RAM latencies are high compared to lower speeds with lower latencies.

My 5800x and 3600C16 RAM are currently running 3600. I've increased it to 3800 with the IF also increased to that speed and the RAM had the same timings. The only change was the increase in RAM speed and IF speed. There were performance increases for 3800 in some benchmarks. In normal, real world use there was no noticeable difference between 3600 and 3800. Since I had some rare but intermittent instability after that change I couldn't get rid of I dropped the speeds back down to 3600 but haven't had any real world performance drops from doing so.

Here are the facts. You have 3200C14 RAM that is probably going to give you system wide performance the same or similar than most 3600 RAM kits. There is no guarantee you'll be able to clock the RAM and IF of Zen2 to 3600. There is no guarantee you'll be able to clock RAM and IF at 3600 with your motherboard.
 
I am not talking about memory bandwidth or only memory dependent performance numbers. I am talking about the end performance of the PC. The article I linked does not show memory bandwidth tests. It shows application and game performance.

For the end performance of the PC (of the CPU) ---- 3600mhz Cas 17/18/19 will not be strict upgrade from 3200mhz cas 14.
I'm specifically talking about CPU performance. Not memory. Memory clock speed on Ryzen is directly tied to infinity fabric speed because of the cache layout and architecture. 3600mhz CAS 18 vs 3200mhz cas 14 (remember CAS latency has 0 to do with infinity fabric speed, which is the whole point of my query) is faster for the PC (of the CPU). (period)
 
No, you don't understand the relationship with clock speed and latency because I explained the practical effects and you blew it off as irrelevant.
It is irrelevant. I'm not talking about memory bandwidth, or memory bandwidth limited applications at all.
I'm well aware that it's almost always best to run RAM and Infinity Fabric at the same speed and that's the crux of the argument. At every point of my explanation the Infinity Fabric is the same speed as RAM. Higher Infinity Fabric and RAM synchronous speeds are not always going to have better performance if the RAM latencies are high compared to lower speeds with lower latencies.
You don't run ram and infinity fabric at the same speed. They are run at the same speed by design of the CPU. This directly affects the speed of multiple architectural level things inside the CPU.
My 5800x and 3600C16 RAM are currently running 3600. I've increased it to 3800 with the IF also increased to that speed and the RAM had the same timings. The only change was the increase in RAM speed and IF speed. There were performance increases for 3800 in some benchmarks. In normal, real world use there was no noticeable difference between 3600 and 3800. Since I had some rare but intermittent instability after that change I couldn't get rid of I dropped the speeds back down to 3600 but haven't had any real world performance drops from doing so.
Cool beans, I'm not going to buy a 5800x, ever. If i got one for free, I would sell it, or give it away.
Here are the facts. You have 3200C14 RAM that is probably going to give you system wide performance the same or similar than most 3600 RAM kits. There is no guarantee you'll be able to clock the RAM and IF of Zen2 to 3600. There is no guarantee you'll be able to clock RAM and IF at 3600 with your motherboard.
Your facts are not facts. But a statement of broad misunderstanding of both the architecture of Zen, and my original query.
 
What you want is a 4 slot board and fill them all , if you have 4 x 8Gb sticks is better then 2 x 16Gb at the same speed and cas so just get a matching set of what you already have then wasting money like other says .
Should I microwave this first? and before or after I install the ram?
 
I'm specifically talking about CPU performance. Not memory. Memory clock speed on Ryzen is directly tied to infinity fabric speed because of the cache layout and architecture. 3600mhz CAS 18 vs 3200mhz cas 14 (remember CAS latency has 0 to do with infinity fabric speed, which is the whole point of my query) is faster for the PC (of the CPU). (period)
Obviously, you are tunnel vision set on 3600mhz RAM. Buy it if you want. But the performance numbers do not agree that 3600mhz ram is of any tangible benefit Vs. the RAM which you already have.

You are also starting to be rude in this thread so...I'm out.
 
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It is irrelevant. I'm not talking about memory bandwidth, or memory bandwidth limited applications at all.

You don't run ram and infinity fabric at the same speed. They are run at the same speed by design of the CPU. This directly affects the speed of multiple architectural level things inside the CPU.

Cool beans, I'm not going to buy a 5800x, ever. If i got one for free, I would sell it, or give it away.

Your facts are not facts. But a statement of broad misunderstanding of both the architecture of Zen, and my original query.
My facts are facts and through explanation I've already shown I do know at least some basics about Zen and up architecture. What you've shown is that you don't have a clue.

Why bother asking a question if you already know everything already? You're obviously dead set on buying a new set of RAM so go ahead and do it and don't bother to ask questions about it since you're doing nothing but telling everyone else they are wrong. It would probably be better if you don't bother posting about your problems or lack of increase in performance you're expecting with the new RAM that everyone in the thread has told you isn't likely to make any noticeable difference over what you already have. The answers to that problem are already posted here. Enjoy the new RAM that won't make any noticeable difference and probably won't even work at XMP settings causing even more grief.
 
Why bother asking a question if you already know everything already?
to be fair, his q was "will 3600 run on my board/chip?" and someone else spun this out of control. think people just need to walk away and let him try to see if he get the results he wants.
 
to be fair, his q was "will 3600 run on my board/chip?" and someone else spun this out of control. think people just need to walk away and let him try to see if he get the results he wants.
It didn't start spinning out of control until he told people who know and have experience with different RAM speeds that he wasn't likely to gain anything by going with different RAM that they are basically stupid and don't know anything about Zen or how it interacts with RAM. When explanation of how Zen works with RAM and latencies was given we were again told we're stupid and don't know anything.

He can go do whatever he wants and enjoy the likely problems that come with ignoring advice, explanations and experiences of others.
 
It didn't start spinning out of control until he told people who know and have experience with different RAM speeds that he wasn't likely to gain anything by going with different RAM that they are basically stupid and don't know anything about Zen or how it interacts with RAM. When explanation of how Zen works with RAM and latencies was given we were again told we're stupid and don't know anything.

He can go do whatever he wants and enjoy the likely problems that come with ignoring advice, explanations and experiences of others.
so you didnt know when to walk away then and now you argue with me? jesus...
 
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He can go do whatever he wants and enjoy the likely problems that come with ignoring advice, explanations and experiences of others.
So you have some relevant experiences with Ryzen 3xxx, 3600mhz ram, and x370 motherboards? Because I've read paragraphs of drivel completely unrelated to anything I've asked.
 
As an aside if the focus is gaming @ 4K or VR rez, from what I have gathered RAM speed, unless needlessly slow isn't a factor. And in the same scenario with the gains considering the Infinity Fabric and CPU, the CPU isn't the bottle-neck so again worthless.
If we are talking 1080p gaming or some high crunching CPU intensive task possibly the faster but higher latency RAM will give an advantage. But I fear in this given scenario of a x370 why would one risk the cost of failure of incompatibility for small % when the idea of using an old platform ultimately has to be to save a $?
 
As an aside if the focus is gaming @ 4K or VR rez, from what I have gathered RAM speed, unless needlessly slow isn't a factor. And in the same scenario with the gains considering the Infinity Fabric and CPU, the CPU isn't the bottle-neck so again worthless.
If we are talking 1080p gaming or some high crunching CPU intensive task possibly the faster but higher latency RAM will give an advantage. But I fear in this given scenario of a x370 why would one risk the cost of failure of incompatibility for small % when the idea of using an old platform ultimately has to be to save a $?

The other factor is the capability of the existing RAM. Generally speaking, anything by G.Skill rated for 14-14-14-34 at 3200 is going to be high-quality Samsung b-die and probably the same exact stuff that they rate for 16-16-16-36 at 3600. I would not buy different RAM just to run 3600 if I had one of the 3200C14 rated Trident-Z, Rip Jaws, or Flare X kits. I would just run the 3200C14 stuff at 3600C16, and if it didn't want to work I would blame the CPU or mobo.
 
It seems to be continuously missed that I'm not "upgrading" my ram. It is being replaced. Existing RAM will cease to exist.
I understand with current applications the CPU, and specifically the cache, is not a bottleneck. This will be a long term upgrade. Every percentage point of performance matters. Eventually the cpu, and likely it's cache will begin to be the bottleneck.

The flare x kits are staying with my 1600.

I have 6 PC's I need to continually upgrade and maintain. This upgrade would allow me to mothball a fx 8350e mobo and cpu, until I'm ready to have it replace the phenom X3 on my workbench.

Another aside, I spent almost $400 on that ram kit, why is it assumed I would buy CAS 18 3600?

I'll be gaming at 1080p for the next 10 years. But I also do, databases, compiling, image and video work, 3d and 2d CAD, complex Excel files, and more!
 
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I guess rather than be offended by unsolicited advice from people assuming they know more about specific things that I didn't ask about than I, I'll share the whole plan.
PC 1
Ryzen 1600
16gb flarex 3200
Gigabyte x370

PC 2
FX 8350e
8gb ddr3
biostar bargain basement mobo (870 chipset iirc, irrelevant really)

PC 3
ryzen 1600
16gb corsair 3200 cas 16 (pinched some pennies that day, runs at 3200mhz no problem, meh)
Asus Rog strix b350

PC 4
AM2+ Phenom X3 B73 (cost me $25, 8 years ago) To be retired, bits from PC 2 to replace. Will be delayed as this is all in an MATX case, and the AM3 system is full atx. Although I might be able to play musical cases and shift everything around to work out, the biostar B450 is Matx, and currently PC 1-3 are in full atx cases.

purchasing;
Ryzen 7 3700x ---> to PC 1, r5 1600 to PC 2
16gb 3600 cas 16 kit (Designed for AMD) ---> to PC 1, flarex to PC 2 or PC 3, depends which machine prefers the corsair best. Corsair to other.
biostar bargain basement b450 mobo ---> To PC 2

Estimated total cost > $500. Massive upgrades to 3 machines.

FYI only, these plans are basically set and no amount of "what about" or "did you know", or "actually feature x has no benefit to [insert workload here]" will change them.
 
I have a MSI B350m Gaming Pro that has been flashed to death and I ran a Ryzen 3600 on back then , I give the board a refit with a Ryzen 5 1600 AF for $85 and dropped some 3600Mhz memory sticks in and it's been stable for over a year at 3333Mhz XMP 1 profile which in outstanding for Ryzen 5 2600 clone .. so I think you would have no issue with the latest bios for your board but you need to flash it with the 1600 still in the socket first and reboot and make sure bios is right in windows before switching out CPU's
 
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Shopping around 3600mhz C16 doesnt seem super available, still the preferred path. Definately options limited compared to C18. Might end up buying another kit of 3200c14, see what's up when I decide to buy. Could split the D and see how much further I can OC the flareX kit with the 3700x before I buy more Ram.
 
I bought a refurbished MSI x470 Gaming Plus in 2019 for $75 and used a 2200g to flash the board as it had support for it but not 3700x .. I don't see x370 being any different as the memory controller is in the CPU and the board is only the socket as why we can flash them .
 
What seems to be missing from the clock vs latency discussion is the Zen 2 Infinity Fabric was improved, with the bus width doubled. This makes the dependence on IF clock speed quite a bit less than Zen 1 saw. Yes, higher IF clocks bump the interconnect bandwidth a bit, but it's already sufficiently improved that the clock speed is not nearly the controlling factor that it was in Zen 1/Zen+.

If you are buying new RAM anyway, you might as well shoot for 3600CL16 if price is not a big factor for you. Don't expect it to make a noticeable improvement over the old 3200CL14 stuff, though. With the improved memory controller, it's entirely possible that you can push the 3200CL14 up a couple notches. If so, I'd just keep it in #1, and buy some cheap 3200CL16 for the Ryzen 1600 PC.
 
When I was initially waiting to get my hands on a Ryzen 3900X to plug into my freshly BIOS updated Asus Crosshair VI Extreme (x370), back in the day, I pre-purchased some Corsair Vengeance Pro 3600 CAS-18 sticks for it. I went ahead and installed the RAM using the existing Ryzen 2700X CPU and XMP/DOCP did not work. The system would lock up tight every time. I manually set it up for 3200 and waited for my Ryzen 3900X...

Just changing out the CPU allowed the RAM to work perfectly at XMP/DOCP 3600. That CPU has since migrated down to my wife's Crosshair VI Hero (also x370), along with another set of Corsair Vengeance Pro 3600 CAS-18's, and it's still working perfectly fine at XMP/DOCP.
 
Shopping around 3600mhz C16 doesnt seem super available, still the preferred path. Definately options limited compared to C18. Might end up buying another kit of 3200c14, see what's up when I decide to buy. Could split the D and see how much further I can OC the flareX kit with the 3700x before I buy more Ram.

https://slickdeals.net/f/15302002-2...-ballistix-rgb-3600-69-and-more?src=catpagev2

2x8GB Ballistix 3600 C16 for ~$64. I thought about picking some up myself.
 
My own personal experience with X370 is gonna say hard NO at being able to run it at 3600 speeds, but maybe you'll be luckier than I was.
 
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