R520 to be 16 pipe, 700mHz core???

HOCP4ME said:
Oh, and if NVIDIA had stockpiled faster cards they would be selling them right now, they would be losing money if they were producing cards but not selling them, and they'd be taking a very big risk by assuming it will beat the r520 by enough that the sales will make up for the losses. NVIDIA would not take that risk, they are making loads of money now with the 7800's and they should be satisfied enough that they wouldn't gamble on an ultra version.
Click to expand...

Actually, NO. NVIDIA already has the 2 fastest cards on the market. By releasing an even faster one they would only be competing with themselves. Besides a 7800ultra may have lower yeilds, so the longer they wait to release it the more of them they can stock up on.

If they released such a card now they would probably have to drop the price on the GT's and GTX's and that would make no sense.
 
Im very Diassapointed in ATI, i bought 2 7800 GTXs because i lost faith in ATi, but if the R520 ever sees the light of day ill buy it if its not a piece of crap.
 
HOCP4ME said:
Oh, and if NVIDIA had stockpiled faster cards they would be selling them right now, they would be losing money if they were producing cards but not selling them, and they'd be taking a very big risk by assuming it will beat the r520 by enough that the sales will make up for the losses. NVIDIA would not take that risk, they are making loads of money now with the 7800's and they should be satisfied enough that they wouldn't gamble on an ultra version.
Click to expand...

I see your point but you're assuming that the faster cards are somehow an additional investment over the GTX's selling now. What if G70 was designed to 32 and the GTX were simply the ones with 24 pipes enabled? That way they can stockpile 32 pipers and

1. release them as 24-pipe GTX's if ATi has no answer
2. release them with immediate availability as a dual-slot cooled Ultra SKU if ATi has a GTX killer

No risk there. Although I wouldnt be surprised if the 32 pipe card is a completely separate chip on 90nm.
 
No risk there
Click to expand...

What? There aren't any pipes hidden on the GTX, it has a max of 24 pipes, so that means all of the 32 pipe cards have to be coming from a different line of silicon in the foundry (which by itself costs tens of millions of dollars). But, not every chip coming out can have 32 pipes, so they use the chips that can't use 32 pipes (which is probably <15%) and disable pipes and sell them as lower cards.

So here we have 2 seperate lines of wafers coming out of the factory, one with a max of 32 pipes, and the other with a max of 24, yet the clear majority of both these lines aren't being sold as Ultras or GTX's, so you're essentially creating double the amount of *every* chip nvidia sells, and do you think they sell all of them? You're operating at a huge loss, and stockpiling millions of chips you can't sell because you're already selling enough with the existing line at the foundry. If GTX's don't come from 32 pipe chips, then Nvidia isn't making a 32 pipe chip.


Nice thread hijacks, all around.
 
Anandtech has already reported on the specs of the RV530, which is the mid range product. It has 12 pipes, 600Mhz core/ 1400Mhz 128 bit memory in 256/512.

I'd say the "speculation" or "rumors" of a 16 pipe R520 is most likely true.
 
SnakEyez187 said:
What? There aren't any pipes hidden on the GTX, it has a max of 24 pipes, so that means all of the 32 pipe cards have to be coming from a different line of silicon
Click to expand...

Well we don't know how many pipes are designed into the GTX - even DaveB at B3D speculated there could be more than 24. And at the end of my post I did say that I wouldnt be surprised if the Ultra is a completely different chip. But to your point of redundant lines - what's stopping them from discontinuing the 110nm G70 line by Q1 '06 when the Ultra is most likely to appear?
 
Does anyone REALLY think they will keep running with the G70 core? Especially given that "common knowledge" has it that this is the refresh part for the 6800 series. (More like GeForce3 Ti -> GeForce4 Ti, actually)

More likely, we will see a new core out this winter. G75, maybe? I'd expect a 'GeForce 7900GTX' to be 32 pipes, and that core serve as the basis for a number of cards of lesser pipes - 24 pipe 7900GT, 20 pipe 7900, etc. And it'd be that generation that we see the 7600s and 7200s appear in.

I can see maybe - MAYBE - a purely higher clocked core '7800 Ultra' to counter the r520 launch....but that's absolutely it. It's just too similar to the 6800s to have midrange parts come out of this line (why not just continue the 6800 line, then? Heck, maybe even rebranding parts with different clock speeds), and the core was already designed for 24 pipes, so it's not like they can magically ADD pipes to it without a core redesign *anyway*.
 
Lol cracks me up alot of you talking about pipelines and judgeing a cards performance on it. Heck if that were true then the intel cpus should be many times faster than amd per mhz because they have far more pipelines.
 
The Inq (I know) is now reporting as a certainty that R520 has 16 pipelines. I didn't read every post, so this might be old speculation, anyway.

Yes, yes...I know.
 
Shane said:
Lol cracks me up alot of you talking about pipelines and judgeing a cards performance on it. Heck if that were true then the intel cpus should be many times faster than amd per mhz because they have far more pipelines.
Click to expand...


more stages. CPUs have 1 pipeline.

More stages means higher clocks but also a lengthened pipeline.

Less stages means lower clocks but a shorter pipeline that may also be more efficient.
 
How do people know what the capacity of the G70 core is? Can you read those cpu die x-rays? Can't it be possible the die was designed for 32-pipelines, but only 24 and 20 have been enabled or that that's the yield so far? I mean need someone from the design team to tell us the details.
 
Shifra said:
more stages. CPUs have 1 pipeline.

More stages means higher clocks but also a lengthened pipeline.

Less stages means lower clocks but a shorter pipeline that may also be more efficient.
Click to expand...
I always thought it was the other way round.

Reasoning: shorter pipeline will enable more cycles per second, but less gets done per cycle (Intel). A longer pipeline will enable more to be done per cycle, so the chip doesn't have to be clocked as high (AMD).
I swear I saw a diagram explaining it all out in a magazine. Anyways...

I'll say it again: I hope ATi do it right. I mean they are losing a lot of sales at the moment to nVidia, with the threat (at least speculation threats) that they will get thumped by nVidia when they finally release it. The better ATi can deliver, the more competition there is on the market, the better for us at the end of the day.


BTW at last something important happened in Australia. The only reason nothing happens here is because no from Asia or America ever bothers to launch anything here, cause they don't take us Aussies seriously enough. Its also because distributers charge a shitload more for parts than they are really worth...
And yes there was a Gardening expo at the Olympic Park, there also would have been a game of rugby league at the same time. It's a multi-purpose venue, the best place for that sort of thing in Sydney. Of course Brisbane is much better :)

/thread hijack
 
4keatimj said:
I always thought it was the other way round.

Reasoning: shorter pipeline will enable more cycles per second, but less gets done per cycle (Intel). A longer pipeline will enable more to be done per cycle, so the chip doesn't have to be clocked as high (AMD).
I swear I saw a diagram explaining it all out in a magazine. Anyways...
Click to expand...

in a longer pipeline, each step is smaller, hence can run faster, but the pipeline is longer, since it needs more steps.

On Topic: wow, 16 pipes, great, yeah!
 
Marcdaddy said:
Im very Diassapointed in ATI, i bought 2 7800 GTXs because i lost faith in ATi, but if the R520 ever sees the light of day ill buy it if its not a piece of crap.
Click to expand...

Trust me, it won't be a piece of "crap", it just won't exceed the performance of a 7800GTX more along the lines of the GT.

Check out this thread http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33826885 ATI can't knowingly "lie" to their stock holders as this will get them into sooo much trouble, especially after ENRON. They can still portray it in as positive light as much as possible, so this admission has me thinking, it'll really only compete with the 20 pipeline GT.

So it won't "suck", it'll just be a Johnny come lately and not be a market pivot like the 7800 series has been. OEM sales lost, enthusiast opportunities lost and R580 even later to the game. Doesn't look too hot for ATI.
 
Marcdaddy said:
Im very Diassapointed in ATI, i bought 2 7800 GTXs because i lost faith in ATi, but if the R520 ever sees the light of day ill buy it if its not a piece of crap.
Click to expand...

Well at least you know one thing that will be a 100% a sure bet,it and it may not be faster.
In other words there is 50% chance it will be slower and there is a 50% chance it will be faster........mabey...when it comes out......if it comes out. Hell it may and it may not not even come out at all.
 
drizzt81 said:
in a longer pipeline, each step is smaller, hence can run faster, but the pipeline is longer, since it needs more steps.
Click to expand...
Now I get it, I must have got pipelines mixed up with steps. Thanks for the info.

On topic: Yeah, ATi have a lot to lose here... they need to get off their asses now.
 
I find it funny that for the R420, ATI realeased some false information that it would have 8 extreme pipelines, not 16 pipelines. Now, for the R520, the early speculation was that it would surely have 32 and now we find out that it really has only 16.
ATI sure seems to like releasing false information to keep everyone guessing. We'll have to wait another month or so before we find out for sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top