Quote of the Day

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And the Quote of the Day goes to the Vice President for his comments on piracy. Why? Because, according to him, pirating a movie is the same as smashing out a window at Tiffany’s and stealing stuff.

"We used to have a problem in this town saying this," Biden told reporters at a press conference in Washington D.C. "But piracy is theft. Clean and simple. It's smash and grab. It ain't no different than smashing a window at Tiffany's and grabbing [merchandise]."
Click to expand...
 
Clearly he missed the part in the whole concept of "theft" where you are depriving the original owner of his property. If you copy a movie, song, etc. you are not destroying the company's facility (smashing the window) nor are you depriving him of his ability to sell the product. Of course, it's no surprise that in the midst of a major recession and a huge, undeniable environmental catastrophe that's occurring right now (oil spill) the government is going to bend over backwards for greedy media companies and other special interests.
 
Biden's comments would only have any significance if we had devices like the replicators on Star Trek and could just duplicate anything from Tiffany's at will. Suffice to say he needs to see this:

2m7xd851.jpg


I'm not saying that software "piracy" is right, not saying it's wrong, but at least get the gist of the idea correct: it's more accurately called copyright infringement in the big picture since we're talking about "copies" of things that don't really exist in the first place (except as magnetic flux).

But, all politicians are idiots, no surprises there.
 
DOH!!! Would have helped if I'd paid attention to the preview of my own post... /me smacks the shit outta himself... let's try this again:

piracyu.jpg


There, that's somewhat better for the full effect. :)
 
Piracy is theft, agreed, but so are the prices we pay to see the movies. Netflix as is now, FTW!

The reason that I say as is now, because all good things...go to complete shit.
 
Every time you download a song a new song as to be made. Every time you download a song someone has to fix an expensive glass window. Every time you pirate a song thelabel looses the value of an expensive piece of designer jewelry. Huh?
 
Here in Canada, the government has tabled a new copyright bill. We refer to it as the DMCA of the North. Here is a post I recetly put out on the subject. It refers to the influence of the USA special interest groups on Canadian policy so I thought it would be of interest to you.

a) Bill C-32 in the spirit of "Balance" proposes fair use rights then in the next pen stroke says "unless a digital lock is employed".
b) Most people posting here are concerned that the proposed digital lock provision will supersede the fair use provision in this bill for purposes such as backup, parody, education, research etc.
c) It will supersede, for example, in the making of a backup copy of a DVD because that would break the DCSS "lock", and we fear the media industry will use digital locks on much of it's other material as well.
d) It has been posted here that digital locks are needed to protect content. But they are easily broken, and will continue to be so. There is no technological measure that cannot eventually be bypassed and the same method easily disseminated for others to use. Ethical or not, that is just a plain fact.
e) So digital locks do not prevent the copying of media, if that is the case then what is their purpose?
f) The most likely reason is to attempt to monetize extra revue streams from the same content in violation of accepted fair use practices. In other words corporate greed.

No one here is advocating counter-fitting and profiting of content that has digital locks removed. Will that occur anyways by unscrupulous people? Yes, but digital locks will be no impediment for them and thus are ineffective.

Will digital locks inconvenience paying customers? Yes, and it will have no effect on piracy. Just scare honest people away from exercising their fair use rights.

File sharing, sanctioned or not, has been shown to increase exposure for talent both amateur and professional. Leading to many successes outside of the traditional media distribution industry (RIAA/MPAA etc). The most recent studies show that profits for traditional media distribution channels has decreased by 20% from base level in the last decade due to file sharing (The other 80% due to market factors). While at the same time the profits for the industry as a whole, including independent artists and concerts, has increased by 5% from baseline. So while the bulky traditional media distribution system has lost ground, artists have gained by a difference of 25%. (Ref. http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...ociety.ars)

So Digital locks
- Do not stop piracy
- Inconvenience honest customers
- Stifle innovation
- Increase profits for Media barons

So why are there digital lock provisions in Bill C-32. Because of deep pockets and lobbying from USA special interest groups to support the old distribution models. The rich back room men don't want to loose their gravy train, but artists are starting to realize they don't need them anymore and that has them scared. Their only recourse is brinkmanship and bullying. And our politicians are letting that happen.

That is why the people who are posting here are passionate about this issue. It is about fairness, not just for themselves but for the artists whom until now have no recourse but to bow to the system. Disinformation is the main tool of the system. Don't just believe what you are told, investigate, then you decide.
 
Right or wrong...it's all a moot point. Yeah, piracy causes some damage and I'm not advocating for either side, but seriously, if some of these companies would simply make quality products that more people wanted to buy, without asking for your first-born, piracy would be a non-issue. This can be seen across all forms of commerce, so I don't understand why it's so difficult for them to grasp.

Higher quality products + low price = greater value = higher demand = more money
 
He should take his own advice and apply them to taxes.
 
niconx said:
Every time you download a song a new song as to be made. Every time you download a song someone has to fix an expensive glass window. Every time you pirate a song thelabel looses the value of an expensive piece of designer jewelry. Huh?
Click to expand...
RIAA: "Yes, you have a point to make?"

(Bahamut: Great graphic.)
 
It is not the same as "smashing a window at Tiffany's and grabbing" because there isn't a Tiffany's at every street corner. The Tiffany's store front is not as ubiquitous at the internet. For example, if Tiffany's sold their wares at every CVS, they would see a huge increase in theft.
 
jebo_4jc said:
How did you people let him into the White House?
Click to expand...

Surely you don't think the American public - boneheads and all - actually elects a President or Vice President, do you? That hasn't happened since... well, it's never actually happened, go figure. Electoral College FTL!!!

We need a reboot of our election system, seriously.
 
jebo_4jc said:
How did you people let him into the White House?
Click to expand...

Smart people pay dumb people to act as puppets, or our society is so bad that retards actually make it into office. I much prefer the first options.


Joe's comment was ignorant and shows he doesn't understand copy right in the slightest.
 
i think that they (and they being webster and dictionary.com and pretty much a general consensus of the planet) should not call software "piracy", piracy. In the above pictures shown of the copying of softwares....it's not piracy. i understand that getting everyone to say warezing isn't going to happen, but certainly calling it piracy isn't very smart either.

Piracy, pirating, pirates: A pirate is a person who commits warlike acts at sea without the authorization of any nation.

and biden went to college, and while there.....this is good by the way: "During his first year there, he was accused of having plagiarized 5 of 15 pages of a law review article. Biden said it was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and he was permitted to retake the course after receiving a grade of F, which was subsequently dropped from his record."
 
And quickly a long list of piracy justifications is produced as usual. Justify theft all you want, it's still dishonest theft. Obviously his analogy isn't perfect, and thank to those of you wasting your time pointing that out, but it still covers the overall concept of what theft is.

You are taking something you didn't pay for. That's theft. It doesn't matter that it is "copying" from the original or whatever fancy justification you try to come up with.
 
I like Biden..... he's bad about covering up his motives. He's symbolic of a real politician without the smooth guile.
 
I get so ticked off when I think about the current administration. I should just end this post as such before I get in trouble. :eek:
 
Ahh good ole Plugs Biden shooting his mouth off again...

Good to see the dumbest man to ever be vice president is getting some face time with the media. :rolleyes:
 
To add to my post, a plain idiot is better than an idiot disguised as an expert.

Let Biden run his mouth. I don't care whether or not piracy is defined as theft. Let Biden run his mouth.
 
Ohh man, Joe Biden....

Joe Biden is a Complete Moron. After what he said on a morning show about the Swine Flu, I knew then that this man, and no one around him can be trusted to look after my intrests anymore then a burgler. Really gives you a sense this man has no regard for people other then himself. Seeing as how the Current administration has many ties to the RIAA, (Notably there lawyers) his "Opinion" on the matter is not surprising and niether is his complete misunderstanding on the subject.
 
Bgrngod said:
And quickly a long list of piracy justifications is produced as usual. Justify theft all you want, it's still dishonest theft. Obviously his analogy isn't perfect, and thank to those of you wasting your time pointing that out, but it still covers the overall concept of what theft is.

You are taking something you didn't pay for. That's theft. It doesn't matter that it is "copying" from the original or whatever fancy justification you try to come up with.
Click to expand...
And just as quickly, people like you accuse everyone who makes a valid distinction between theft and copyright infringement of being criminals themselves. "I disagree with you, so you're a dirty rotten theif," is what your argument amounts to. Recognizing that copyright infringement is not theft is in no way a justification for piracy, alright?
 
itanium said:
Good to see the dumbest man to ever be vice president is getting some face time with the media. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Wait a minute. Seems like you forgot about Dan Quayle, he said lots of dumb things
"Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is IN
the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that
is right here."
And lest we forget that Cheney managed to mistake a hunting buddy for an animal and shot him.
 
Correction
In a earlier post I said that that profits for the media distribution companies has been reduced by 20% due to file sharing. Rechecking my sources that is incorrect, apologies for the misquote. In fact I should have said that 20% of the TOTAL DECLINE in profits is due to file sharing while 80% of the total decline is due to other market forces such as increased competition and changes in consumer buying habits. I do not have the figure for what the actual total decline in profits over the last decade has been rather the above is just a ratio of causes for said decline.

Here is the exact quote from the article: "Indeed, they round up a host of studies from the past few years suggesting that, on average, one-fifth of declining music sales might be chalked up to piracy. (The rise of new entertainment options like video game has also hurt the business, and consumers finally stopped "re-buying" old albums on CD by the mid-2000s.)"
 
Catalan said:
And just as quickly, people like you accuse everyone who makes a valid distinction between theft and copyright infringement of being criminals themselves. "I disagree with you, so you're a dirty rotten theif," is what your argument amounts to. Recognizing that copyright infringement is not theft is in no way a justification for piracy, alright?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother, some folks can't grasp legal definitions and dictionary definitions.
 
hashish said:
It is not the same as "smashing a window at Tiffany's and grabbing" because there isn't a Tiffany's at every street corner. The Tiffany's store front is not as ubiquitous at the internet. For example, if Tiffany's sold their wares at every CVS, they would see a huge increase in theft.
Click to expand...

This was an infomercial for Tiffanys. News reports is the new way to endorse products and put money into the political coffers.:D Now if he could just lip sync to some Gangsta Rap he'd win me over.:p
 
Bgrngod said:
And quickly a long list of piracy justifications is produced as usual. Justify theft all you want, it's still dishonest theft. Obviously his analogy isn't perfect, and thank to those of you wasting your time pointing that out, but it still covers the overall concept of what theft is.

You are taking something you didn't pay for. That's theft. It doesn't matter that it is "copying" from the original or whatever fancy justification you try to come up with.
Click to expand...

Here's an analogy:

You have a fancy bronze statue in your front yard. One day I come, and make a mold of your statue. Then I proceed to melt down some bronze, pour it into the mold, and break away the mold. I now have an exact copy of your statue. Did I steal the statue from you?

I am not saying copyright infringement for file sharing is justified. I am simply saying that it is not "theft" based on any generally accepted definition of the word and it certainly is not "smash and grab".

wikipedia said:
The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorised taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use.
Click to expand...
 
You know McCain would say it as an unauthorized Heart or Mellencamp song blared in the background at a rally.

The hypocrisy is always pretty blatant. The same companies opposed to stealing used to or still do load discs with spyware and other dreck to prevent someone WITH THE DISC from using it.

And the big companies use a spokesperson to give their sob story about how piracy cuts their royalties, etc. 99.9% of people can't hire a spokesperson, 95% of musicians make a realistic-enough living and aren't widely pirated, aren't worried about shareholders instead of fans, etc.

And then the government gets involved, down to local... they pay for libraries that have music available, lots of CDs, for people to listen to, DVDs, etc. They don't get them forever but they can watch everything for free, get it 6 months later if they want to, everyone can try things out and leave it after first listen/viewing or buy them if they want it in their collection.
 
Frankly, I'm more concerned about what Biden's role will be after the Vice Presidency. Ambassadorship? Private law? Corporate officer?
 
Using the Tiffany's example, it would be more like taking a picture of something at Tiffany's then creating an exact (or close enough) replica of it for personal use. It is not theft. It is copyright infringement.

Yes it is wrong. But it can hardly be compared to snatching a purse from an old lady on the street.
 
jebo_4jc said:
How did you people let him into the White House?
Click to expand...

Actually Biden is a shot of fresh air in the white house in my opinion. I say that because he seems to be a pretty straight shooter who says whats on his mind. He often seems to be oblivious of the political consequences of saying the things he says. Now I don't like him, but I do like how he is always good for a laugh or two. He should be the press secretary and not that Gibbs guy.

But going back to topic, piracy is still THEFT! I don't care whether you are stealing something that is physical or digital, as theft is theft. Some people love to justify piracy using all sorts of mental tricks, but theft is theft. If you didn't pay for it, don't use it. Don't bitch about the lack or quality or the high prices as you can just vote with your wallet. These excuses are a cop out and the more people pirate, the worse HONEST consumers will be as these devs and studios will resort to more exotic forms of DRM and copy protection.
 
amdgamer said:
But going back to topic, piracy is still THEFT! I don't care whether you are stealing something that is physical or digital, as theft is theft. Some people love to justify piracy using all sorts of mental tricks, but theft is theft. If you didn't pay for it, don't use it. Don't bitch about the lack or quality or the high prices as you can just vote with your wallet. These excuses are a cop out and the more people pirate, the worse HONEST consumers will be as these devs and studios will resort to more exotic forms of DRM and copy protection.
Click to expand...

Since what you said here is untrue, it is a lie, and a lie is a sin, therefore you killed Elvis.
 
Catalan said:
And just as quickly, people like you accuse everyone who makes a valid distinction between theft and copyright infringement of being criminals themselves. "I disagree with you, so you're a dirty rotten theif," is what your argument amounts to. Recognizing that copyright infringement is not theft is in no way a justification for piracy, alright?
Click to expand...

Ok, I agree that my comments make it sound like I am accusing the people making the distinction between "theft" and "copyright infringement" as thieves. That was not my intention. I did notice that they followed that up with comments about not trying to justify it. There is a legal definition between the two that is very specific as related to copying versus flat out taking. You can't really be accused of theft of a song unless you flat out take the rights to it etc. I get it.

Pyromaneyakk said:
Here's an analogy:

You have a fancy bronze statue in your front yard. One day I come, and make a mold of your statue. Then I proceed to melt down some bronze, pour it into the mold, and break away the mold. I now have an exact copy of your statue. Did I steal the statue from you?

I am not saying copyright infringement for file sharing is justified. I am simply saying that it is not "theft" based on any generally accepted definition of the word and it certainly is not "smash and grab".
Click to expand...

Right, I get that too. The nice picture earlier in the thread makes that abundantly clear. We are really just arguing semantics. I do appreciate your additional analogy, which is obviously much better than Biden's.

Piracy is indeed theft as theft is understood in laymen's terms and not the court defined understanding of it (more semantics). The entire argument between theft and copyright infringement is really a moot point in the overall concept of what piracy is all about. Taking it, and not paying for it is commonly understood as stealing (aka theft). In that regard Biden's analogy is right on target for getting the point across that piracy is "taking without paying for it".

Would this be the "Quote of the day" if he had used the term copyright infringement in the middle of his analogy? Or if he had a better analogy such as the bronze statue one above? Perhaps. Most likely not.

If it did, would a lot of the justifications for piracy that are being thrown out in this thread still show up? Absolutely. And none of them would bother with the theft vs copyright infringement discussion. They would be the plain as day constant arguments for why it's ok to be thievin'... excuse me... infringin' all day and night.

It disgusts me how all of the discussion completely disregards the point he is trying to make and what the discussion should REALLY be about. But, again this is the quote of the day thread and the intent is to just flat out attack Biden for his quote however such an attack can be achieved. Waste of time really. (Indeed my entire post here is just as much a waste of time).

Such is the internet I suppose. Distract, justify and keep on keepin' on. Right and wrong be damned.
 
amdgamer said:
Actually Biden is a shot of fresh air in the white house in my opinion. I say that because he seems to be a pretty straight shooter who says whats on his mind. He often seems to be oblivious of the political consequences of saying the things he says. Now I don't like him, but I do like how he is always good for a laugh or two. He should be the press secretary and not that Gibbs guy.

But going back to topic, piracy is still THEFT! I don't care whether you are stealing something that is physical or digital, as theft is theft. Some people love to justify piracy using all sorts of mental tricks, but theft is theft. If you didn't pay for it, don't use it. Don't bitch about the lack or quality or the high prices as you can just vote with your wallet. These excuses are a cop out and the more people pirate, the worse HONEST consumers will be as these devs and studios will resort to more exotic forms of DRM and copy protection.
Click to expand...

If I break into your computer, copy all of the license keys for your software and then format your drive and install all of the software on my computer, then it's theft. It may be dishonest and perhaps "stealing", but it is NOT the same as doing damage to your property and then taking something from you which deprives you of using it. In other words, it's not the same as "smash and grab" in that 1) nothing was "smashed" and 2) you still have access to the software.
 
amdgamer said:
But going back to topic, piracy is still THEFT! I don't care whether you are stealing something that is physical or digital, as theft is theft. Some people love to justify piracy using all sorts of mental tricks, but theft is theft. If you didn't pay for it, don't use it. Don't bitch about the lack or quality or the high prices as you can just vote with your wallet. These excuses are a cop out and the more people pirate, the worse HONEST consumers will be as these devs and studios will resort to more exotic forms of DRM and copy protection.
Click to expand...
Some people on this thread are wisely not arguing that piracy is bad, but that it is different than what Biden describes. I wouldn't even say it's less grievous than theft in that a single digital upload competes with multiple potential sales.

It's a little more like someone stealing the design for a Gucci bag and then producing exact copies of it. It's theft of the idea, not the product. Gucci can still make their crap, but they then have to compete with knock-offs.

(Others would argue--as they do for bad/expensive movies--that people buying the knock-offs are unlikely to have shelled out for the legitimate product anyway.)
 
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