Quick Question: if CPU support up to 2.4GHz, why would a MB support memory speed up 3.8GHz?

Discussion in 'Motherboards' started by Happy Hopping, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
  2. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

    Messages:
    11,050
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    You can overclock the memory to higher speeds. The CPU only really supports those speeds out of the box.
     
    Armenius and drescherjm like this.
  3. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    But Even if you over clock the memory to 3.8 GHZ, the CPU can only sync. with memory speed of up to DDR4 2.4GHz, so are those over clock speed going to down step back to 2.4GHZ?
     
  4. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    23,735
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    No, that's only an "officially supported" stat. It is running at 3.8Ghz.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  5. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    you mean the CPU can support memory up to 3.8GHz, but do you have to overclock the CPU to achieve that?
     
  6. cyberguyz

    cyberguyz Gawd

    Messages:
    713
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    I believe that is the assumption. Remember too that the motherboard supports from the lowest bin to the highest of that cpu generation. So they also assume that if you are buying a high-spec motherboard that you intend to possibly overclock it. Ergo they tell you the upper limit of their memory support.
     
  7. Denpepe

    Denpepe Gawd

    Messages:
    921
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    You don't have to overclock your CPU, the memory is overclocked usually via an XMP profile built into it and may or may not work at the overclocked speed depending on your CPU's memory controller. Most intel CPU's can use memory at higher speed then the ones they are certified for but this is not guaranteed the memory will however be able to be run safely and problem free at lower speeds.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  8. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    I have seen Asus XMP before. But I am not clear if I use XMP, does that mean Asus is over clock both the CPU and the memory, or I have a choice of over clocking just the memory

    because I can buy memory that are certified to be overclock at a certain speed, but Intel never really allow overclock on any of their CPU
     
  9. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

    Messages:
    11,050
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Just because a CPU multiplier is locked doesn't mean the memory can't be overclocked. Technically you can overclock locked CPU's by increasing the frequency, but the gains usually are pretty minimal. It's the multiplier that is locked on Intel non-K CPU's. XMP is basically the memory telling the motherboard that the memory is designed to run at x speed and x timings. Some boards have it disabled by default, others enabled, but basically if you run without XMP your memory most likely will be running at DDR4-2133 or DDR4-2400 depending on the board. When you enable XMP it will run at its rated speeds and timings. XMP almost always works with Intel but with AMD Ryzen, especially first gen, you may have some issues if you don't buy QVL certified RAM.
     
    Armenius and AlphaQup like this.
  10. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    the RAM I have in mind is Kingston HyperX Predator and they should be lifetime warranty

    I assume you guys have all used Over Clocked memory. Is there any downside? such as Lock up? OS crash? Application software crash, freezes, blue screen etc.?

    because I assume the gain is approx. 2X the memory speed
     
  11. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,201
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    if you see people here talking about ram any higher than 2666 it is technically overclocked. not if you buy ram rated at the "overclocked" speed you want. no not 2x.
     
  12. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    well then, what is the realistic speed that you guys gain to?
     
  13. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,201
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    that depends on how concerned you are about having the absolute best performance and if you want to pay the price for it.
     
  14. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    alright, in view of all these, I'll save the money. The DDR4 boot up time should be 3 sec., that's fast enough for me, although I prefer instant. There is no delay after that anyway
     
  15. vick1000

    vick1000 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,912
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    RAM speed is independent of CPU speed. Clocks are esentially like teeth on a gear, the faster the clock speed, the more gears on the cog (device) thus the more data per clock is transfered or the more operations performed per cycle. Faster RAM clocks simply allow moer data to be sent to and from the CPU per cycle.

    If the CPU is choking on the data it is getting from the RAM, then a CPU overclock is more beneficial then a RAM overclock. If the CPU is waiting around for data to process, then a RAM overclock will be more beneficial.

    All computer systems respond best to reducing the bottle necks.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  16. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    I can't remember if I have ask this before: but if a motherboard manufacturer such as Asus has a motherboard that certified it can over clock the CPU and /or RAM to such and such speed, using for e.g., XMP profile, do they guarantee that I won't get a blue screen from windows?
     
  17. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    20,988
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    nope because the weakest link is the cpu's memory controller and/or the memory modules. all the motherboard manufacture can guarantee is that the circuitry/traces should be able to support up to those clock speeds but it's still dependent on other factors whether you can get those speeds. memory manufactures aren't even required to guarantee you'll hit XMP settings either since it's still considered an overclock even if they are sold at a specific rated speed.
     
    Armenius likes this.
  18. HAL_404

    HAL_404 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    210
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    Quick answer:

    clever marketing (aka they mislead in clever ways)
     
  19. cjcox

    cjcox [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,073
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Could somebody remind me what the OCP stands for in [H]ardOCP?
     
  20. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,398
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    over clocking pages
    It all started with the original Pentiums. You could change a few jumpers and get a Pentium 90 to 150 MHZ. Probably on Liquid nitrogen. lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  21. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    16,215
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Memory speed was only tied to the CPU speed when we were still using a FSB. Near the end of its lifecycle we could run memory asynchronously with non-integer multipliers. FSB was superseded by DMI and HyperTransport, and memory speed has been independent of CPU speed since then.
    Overclockers Comparison Page
    https://hardforum.com/threads/frequently-asked-questions.835057/
     
  22. Dullard

    Dullard [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,900
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Boot up time doesn't really have a lot to do with RAM speed. Motherboards on some platforms do RAM training at boot up, takes a bit for the mobo to decide if the RAM is stable enough to continue with the boot process. Even really fast stuff.

    The CPU data sheet will indicate the speed the RAM operates at. That's it. Mobo manufacturers can put some RAM speed in their specs, but every one of those that's higher than what the CPU data sheet says is an overclock - most mobo data sheets will have (OC) after every RAM speed greater than the CPU data sheet describes. RAM manufacturers can attribute a speed that they claim their RAM will operate at, and the good ones have a better chance of reaching the advertised speed - provided the CPU is a good example and the mobo is high quality enough. And they generally also have a disclaimer that the RAM might not operate at spec speed if the rest of the system isn't up to par.

    Not a day goes by that there's not a post someplace from a guy that bought some whizz bang DDR4 4700 RAM and can't get it to run at 4700. It wasn't all that long ago that 4000 was the new world record RAM OC, these speeds are not usually plug and play. You might get lucky and get it to boot or even run - but RAM instability will trash your operating system as errors accumulate. Getting the RAM to pass a rigorous stability test at the speed you might limp to the desktop at is a whole 'nuther ball of worms.

    I'll take stability over an arbitrary high clock speed any day. Sure, higher clock speed is nice and I'll take it if it's stable, but if it's not pretty friggin stable then you'll start getting BSODs, boot failure, programs not working, all sorts of issues until it just balls up and you have to reinstall the OS.
     
  23. Happy Hopping

    Happy Hopping [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,439
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    I second what Dullard said. it's exactly my pt. I use browser, wordprocessing and spreadsheet for 99% of the time. And these 3 software are already running at instant speed. I bought 1 PC game about 4 yr. ago, but never play it. So if over clock RAM is just a little bit of work, I'll do it, but if I need to do test to create a stable OS w/o the concern of BSOD, then forget it.