Questions about comparison of profitability aspects in mining -- nice hash vs. slush pool etc.

Archaea

Archaea

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In your experiences - for a small time operator with a few cards in his personal PC - is it worthwhile to join a pool - say slush pool or Antpool over something like Nicehash?

Nice hash profits have dropped through the floor in the last three weeks (which is when I first started).

I was making $8.50 a day on a single 1080TI, now i'm making less than 1/3 that -- all in just three weeks. My hash rates have stayed the same, and are consistent.
AND -- the value of the coins themselves hasn't dropped off in parallel to that nicehash value drop. Maybe 20% coin value drop to 70% nice hash profit drop. I realize that if buyers aren't buying hashing power then nicehash doesn't have as much payout -- so with confidence dropping - profits are dropping.

But, I'm curious if mining a more traditional mechanism is more profitable or less?

Anyone with experience willing to share?

(and are those other big pools just as safe?)
 
Look at whattomine.

The profits are dropping due to difficulty as well. Other people like you jumped into the game the past two months, all fighting for the same piece of the pie. Same hashrate == less profits if the coin value stays the same.

Looking at whattomine, ZEC vs Nicehash equihash are within 10 percent, not taking into account pool fees and exchange fees.
 
The profitability has dropped due to a massive influx of new miners not doing research and jumping into the game way to late, ultimately increasing difficulty, along with panic selling due to a possible fork dropping prices, along with a correction after massive pump and icos dumping coins.

Also, the value of basically all coins has dropped significantly in the last month, in some cases more then 50%...

So yes, you will probably continue to see less profits, hopefully that wasnt a $700 1080ti
 
just stick with nicehash and don't think about it... it has its ups and downs and things are down right now. If you just have a single GPU just game and go about what you'd normally do and have it mine overnight and when you're not using it anyway.
 
I actually have six 1080TI's now.

Bought more when I realized how profitable my first one was three weeks ago. Three more were ordered earlier this month from Dell and still haven't shipped at this time - I'm debating cancelling the order --- but I have some pre-built systems to sell - so if mining values flunk out -- then I can get nearly all of my money back on the pre-built custom systems I'm planning to sell. At this point --- mining is still more profitable than NOT mining.

Electricity is about 50 cents per day per card, (i undervolt mine to 160 watts) and they still bring in 2.50 or $3 per card per day....so still making at least $2 a day per card.
 
If you got one of the $700 1080s at $2/day it will be 350 days before that is paid off and you make a single cent... that is if difficulty doesnt stop going up, price doesnt keep dropping, and new more powerful cards arent released in that timeframe.

If you can get your money back selling custom prebuilt systems, that sounds better imo (unless you are loosing money selling them)

Currently, unless you are mining for hobby, or own a giant farm that you started a while back, there isn't much point in doing it atm.
 
tacohunter52 said:
If you got one of the $700 1080s at $2/day it will be 350 days before that is paid off and you make a single cent... that is if difficulty doesnt stop going up, price doesnt keep dropping, and new more powerful cards arent released in that timeframe.

If you can get your money back selling custom prebuilt systems, that sounds better imo (unless you are loosing money selling them)

Currently, unless you are mining for hobby, or own a giant farm that you started a while back, there isn't much point in doing it atm.
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He was also using the past 30 days of NiceHash to calculate profits, which had the difficulty much lower and higher end of the price. I tried warning about 1080tis not being good cards for mining :|
 
shad0w4life said:
He was also using the past 30 days of NiceHash to calculate profits, which had the difficulty much lower and higher end of the price. I tried warning about 1080tis not being good cards for mining :|
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1070's are still quite sweet but even the 1050ti with how easy to manage and 50w a pop are nice. The jump to 1080ti is not worth it for anybody.
 
Put two 1050 TI in my plex server, it's always on so it's not bad, makes about 2+ bucks a day after electric just mining on a pool. Once ETH drops I'll move em to another coin, but I'm only out $300 so no big deal. I made most of that back selling a 1080 and replacing it with a higher producing 1060 at less watts in my gamer rig, so In reality I only need em on less than two months and I've broken even, less than that actually, and I'm already 2+ weeks in.

I did get a rx 580 (for in stock prices, not through the roof) today that I'll be putting on another coin, probably half a year for the ROI on that but I sell recycled PC parts so it's not too bad.

That said I still think there is a place for miners, but you have to take the risk and hit coins well before they become big an popular. In a few weeks when I break even I'm going to venture out into other coins and see where it gets me, if you still want to mine I'd sell the 1080 TI's and get an AMD rig going, more options for new coins on them.

Same thing happened a few years ago with BTC, everyone got out but some stayed and mined other coins, like ETH, and when the price rose a few years down the line the guys sitting on a few hundred coins were suddenly pretty happy lol, but leading up to that they were risking it on a coin they thought would go up

All that said I'm not in it to get rich so yea, if that's your thing listen to someone else lol
 
I have a pair of 980Ti's that I'm in the process of selling on eBay. They should fetch around $400 each. Already sold the EK waterblocks from them for $120. To replace that power hungry SLI setup, I ordered a single Zotac 1080Ti ArticStorm. I did mine with the 980Ti's for a couple of weeks, but even after tuning to bring them down from 250W each to 175W, the best they could do was about 2.4 H/W on efficiency, and they ran about the same hash rate each as my 1070 FE (purchased when it first came out directly from nVidia), and the 1070 has an efficiency of 3.4 H/W.

I did have a pair of PNY 1080Ti on order from Dell until earlier this week for just over $600 each, but I canceled the order.

So my plan is to mine with the 1080Ti in my workstation when it is not busy doing something else, and mine with the 1070 as the only card in my 6 card capable mining rig, for the time being. Once things settle after the 1st of August, I'll begin looking around for 1050Ti's, 1060's or 1070's at or below MSRP to add to my mining rig, and then the 1070 is going back in my HTPC.

I'm fortunate that my power is more or less free since I have a 20kw solar system that generates about 2,500 kWh / month, which is about 500 kWh more than I use. I also have all my 24/7 computer gear in racks in a cool basement being feed 240V from a dedicated sub-panel. So my efficiency is about as good as it can get.
 
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My 1080 ti mining efficiency is 3.7 in equiahash miner.

If a 1070 undervolted hits 3.4, then the 1080ti isn't doing too bad.

I am within 1-5% of full 1080ti performance at 160-165 watts.


I can get the efficiency closer to 4.0 by dropping TDP to 60 instead of 65, but the hash rate does slow down from stock.

My settings in afterburner

Power target 65%
Heat limit 80* C. Cards hover at 70 or less)
Core MHz + 210MHz
Memory MHz + 250MHz
Fan - manual 66%

You guys keep saying 1080ti are not good choices for mining and I disagree. There are time and market factors in play that make them good choices over other AVAILABLE options for mining in my opinion.

1) they aren't overhyped and above market msrp. You can buy them new for $700 all day long. They'll hold their value until Volta is released later this year because there is nothing faster. So unlike the overpriced 1060, 1070, RX 470,RX 570, RX 580, 290 etc that all cost now 2-3x what they are worth due to the miner rush --- when the dust settles the market won't be flooded with 1080TIs. I'll wager in 3-4 months (if by that time the mining isn't worthwhile) - I can sell the cards for $600 each which is a $100 loss. That's less loss than all the people buying the "more efficient cards" at 2-3x msrp. When the market floods with $75 rx570 and 1060 cards, my card will still cost $600 used.

2). I get peak capability per card. The 1080ti mines faster, than any other single card according to nice hash profitability calculated - the detriment is power draw -- but with some tinkering, you can get 95% of that performance with 65% of that power. At 160-165 watts per card you can put 5 cards in a 1200 watt power supply or 6 cards in 1500 watt power supply.
Yes they use more power than a more efficient cards but they mine much faster too.

3) You can actually buy them now - as in get them at any point immediately.

4) you can get more combined hash rate from a single PC.
Proof is in the pudding. I had eight RX 470 cards very temporarily as they were system pulls that I tested working and resold in a couple days on ebay. I did test their mining capability briefly just to see profitability. I put five of them in a machine and was making $5.50 a day. Each was pulling about 90 watts (undervolted)

My three 1080ti in another system were making about $6.50 - 7.50 a day at the exact same time. Each card pulling 160-165 watts.

My 470 machine was capped out with pci-e slots. My 1080ti machine still had two left. You'd have to buy a second machine to utilize more RX 470 cards - which costs capital and energy. Current market was $300+ per card on RX470 --- so let's say $2400 plus the cost of 2 desktop pcs is startup cost on the RX470 setup VS three 1080ti for $2100 with just a single desktop machine. At that point energy delta is more negligible, and simplicity favors the 1080TI setup.


5) Asset value if mining completey tanks soon.
The RX470 cost $300 (2x MSRP) plus on the current market and will sell for $75 bucks if the mining market crashes in the next three months. (an asset loss of $225) By comparison, the 1080ti cost $700 (MSRP) on the current market and will sell for $600 bucks if the mining market crashes in the next three months. (An asset loss of $100)

6) memory limitations. The 1080ti is fit for the forseable future with absolutely no drop in hash rate with coming difficulty increases. The rx470s hash rate may cut in half by the end of the year further pushing bullet five above. https://www.techspot.com/article/1438-ethereum-mining-gpu-benchmark/

7) I can game with the best of them on my mining rig - when not mining.
 
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You guys keep saying 1080ti are not good choices for mining and I disagree.
Click to expand...

^ Shhh... Dude. First rule of mining club is when someone doesn't know WTF they're talking about, don't engage them or explain why they're wrong. Let me demonstrate:

mkrohn said:
The jump to 1080ti is not worth it for anybody.
Click to expand...

THIS! 1080 Ti sucks for mining. Tell all your friends.
 
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Archaea, Nice post.

odditory - LOL. Most of these newer folks will panic-sell either way, whether it be their currency or their cards. It will surely happen. Happy-path hype brought them in, panic will take them out.
 
Archaea said:
My 1080 ti mining efficiency is 3.7 in equiahash miner.

If a 1070 undervolted hits 3.4, then the 1080ti isn't doing too bad.

I am within 1-5% of full 1080ti performance at 160-165 watts.


I can get the efficiency closer to 4.0 by dropping TDP to 60 instead of 65, but the hash rate does slow down from stock.

My settings in afterburner

Power target 65%
Heat limit 80* C. Cards hover at 70 or less)
Core MHz + 210MHz
Memory MHz + 250MHz
Fan - manual 66%

You guys keep saying 1080ti are not good choices for mining and I disagree. There are time and market factors in play that make them good choices over other AVAILABLE options for mining in my opinion.

1) they aren't overhyped and above market msrp. You can buy them new for $700 all day long. They'll hold their value until Volta is released later this year because there is nothing faster. So unlike the overpriced 1060, 1070, RX 470,RX 570, RX 580, 290 etc that all cost now 2-3x what they are worth due to the miner rush --- when the dust settles the market won't be flooded with 1080TIs. I'll wager in 3-4 months (if by that time the mining isn't worthwhile) - I can sell the cards for $600 each which is a $100 loss. That's less loss than all the people buying the "more efficient cards" at 2-3x msrp. When the market floods with $75 rx570 and 1060 cards, my card will still cost $600 used.

2). I get peak capability per card. The 1080ti mines faster, than any other single card according to nice hash profitability calculated - the detriment is power draw -- but with some tinkering, you can get 95% of that performance with 65% of that power. At 160-165 watts per card you can put 5 cards in a 1200 watt power supply or 6 cards in 1500 watt power supply.
Yes they use more power than a more efficient cards but they mine much faster too.

3) You can actually buy them now - as in get them at any point immediately.

4) you can get more combined hash rate from a single PC.
Proof is in the pudding. I had eight RX 470 cards very temporarily as they were system pulls that I tested working and resold in a couple days on ebay. I did test their mining capability briefly just to see profitability. I put five of them in a machine and was making $5.50 a day. Each was pulling about 90 watts (undervolted)
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1. 1080ti is $1000, I can get 570s for $260ish new, resale of 1080ti is not nearly as high as you make it out to be again in CAD pricing.

2. Nicehash profit tends to be WAY off

4. What on earth did you do wrong 8 470s would mine at 216MH/s

"My 470 machine was capped out with pci-e slots. My 1080ti machine still had two left. You'd have to buy a second machine to utilize more RX 470 cards - which costs capital and energy. Current market was $300+ per card on RX470 --- so let's say $2400 plus the cost of 2 desktop pcs is startup cost on the RX470 setup VS three 1080ti for $2100 with just a single desktop machine. At that point energy delta is more negligible, and simplicity favors the 1080TI setup."

You can run more than 6 cards off one PC, buy a 12 PCIE slot MB with dual PSUs (https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138454)



And just to again show the difference

3x 1080tis will generate 0.97845359 Eth per month at a cost of $3000 (assuming 32MH/s)

I will say 10x570s@ $275 will generate 2.75190071 eth a month

I used both of these with identical power cost, estimated the tis at 450w and the 570s at 1000W (being conservative 27MH/s)


You would get far more profit from the 570s

Also forget to mention the added benefit of avoiding using Nvidias drivers which is a huge plus.
 
Come again?

I didn't mine with 8 470's -- I mined with 5, and I didn't modify the firmware -- they were running at the speed and were calculating at the hash rate they were expected to running.


Your link on the motherboard is super interesting though. I didn't know such exists! I see there are 12 and 13 PCI-E slot motherboards made for this purpose. Yeah that could change the game a bit towards making lower tier cards more effective with a single machine.



As to pricing -- my experience is not in Canada - I'm talking about my experience in the US -- and based on what is available - at NON inflated prices. 570's on ebay here have been closing in on 500 bucks used range -- up until this last week. You can't get those cards at MSRP -- and in the absence of being able to get those cards at their MSRP - I think the balance swings towards the 1080TI. All those calculator tools for ROI aren't counting on you paying $400-$500 for your RX580 card.


1080TI - $700 -- pick one of several different models - available right now
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1080ti/

470 - can't buy one - http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/amd/rx470/
480 - can't buy one - http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/amd/rx480/
570 - can't buy one - http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/amd/rx570/
580 - can buy one model right now - at greater than MSRP - http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/amd/rx580/


Nice Hash profits - as listed day to day for 24 hour profitability are spot on the money for me with my first month of mining (this last month). I've cashed out to USD three times during that time - what they say in their calc has been pretty spot on -- that's all I can say. Now, if you use the longer term predictions - they are based on historic gains - so sure they'll be off looking forward.

But the the 24 hour, 1 week, and previous 24 hour calcs are really close.

https://www.nicehash.com/?p=calc



I'm going to stuff that motherboard idea in my pocket in case mining profitability goes back up.
 
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Looking at the nicehash profitability for the 1080Ti, it would seem that profitability has stabilized since around the 12th. The free fall appears to have ended, at least for now. I ended up doing a 180 again and got some 1080Ti's coming on overnight from Amazon. Don't know if the ones from Dell would have ever shipped anyway. Figured it was silly to have build a mining rig that was not mining. If we get another upswing, the 1080Ti's will probably sell out and they will jack the price on those as well, so I figured I might as well snag some while they are still at MSRP. ;)
 
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The Dell PNY Deal based ones are expected ship date now August 31. My chat with their support said they are still expected to ship - just delayed.
 
Archaea said:
The Dell PNY Deal based ones are expected ship date now August 31. My chat with their support said they are still expected to ship - just delayed.
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The two I ordered (not for mining) were cancelled, but they've still got a hold on my card for them...
 
Someone actually use their 1080Ti to mine ETH? :ROFLMAO:
You don't mine ETH with 1080Ti, it's a monster of a card, just not for EthHash :sleep:
 
Nebell said:
Someone actually use their 1080Ti to mine ETH? :ROFLMAO:
You don't mine ETH with 1080Ti, it's a monster of a card, just not for EthHash :sleep:
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which coin am I pointing the ones being delivered today at? I planned on using nicehash to benchmark them and then go run them outside of nicehash.
 
mkrohn said:
which coin am I pointing the ones being delivered today at? I planned on using nicehash to benchmark them and then go run them outside of nicehash.
Click to expand...

Equilhash is one of the best ones to use. Check out www.whattomine.com
1080Ti is too weak for Ethereum, a single 1070 can be clocked to about 30-30MH/s while 1080Ti rarely goes above 36mh/s oced.
 
Thatguybil said:
My 4 1080ti FE pull in 35 MH/s each while dual Mining.
This is with 85% power +600 memory.
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Yeah, that's not good considering that 1070 cost half the price of 1080Ti and do only about 5 mh/s less. In comparison, for the same price, 1070 would do 60+mh/s.
Also, if you really want to mine Ether, a tip is to lower your TDP to 50-60% (experiment which one is the best without losing too much hash rate) and bump your memory to +800 at least.
I can do +800 memory easily on my 1080Ti however only once mining has started, if I try to overclock before I get artifacts and the computer freezes. However if I overclock after it starts mining, it doesn't crashes at all.
By going from 100% TDP to 55% on my 1080Ti my hashrate went from 36.5 to 36mh/s, which is neglible but almost half the power draw.
At 50% I lost too much hashrate, I think I went down to 32mh/s, figured it was not worth losing that much hashrate for only 5% lower TDP.
 
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Nebell said:
Yeah, that's not good considering that 1070 cost half the price of 1080Ti and do only about 5 mh/s less. In comparison, for the same price, 1070 would do 60+mh/s.
Also, if you really want to mine Ether, a tip is to lower your TDP to 50-60% (experiment which one is the best without losing too much hash rate) and bump your memory to +800 at least.
I can do +800 memory easily on my 1080Ti however only once mining has started, if I try to overclock before I get artifacts and the computer freezes. However if I overclock after it starts mining, it doesn't crashes at all.
By going from 100% TDP to 55% on my 1080Ti my hashrate went from 36.5 to 36mh/s, which is neglible but almost half the power draw.
At 50% I lost too much hashrate, I think I went down to 32mh/s, figured it was not worth losing that much hashrate for only 5% lower TDP.
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You can't buy 1070 cards for half the price of 1080ti cards in current market.

You can buy new 1080ti cards for $700 all day long at amazon, newegg, eBay.

You can't find a 1070 card in stock at MSRP anywhere.
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1070/

When you overpay $500 ish for a 1070, the 1080ti starts to not look so bad.
 
Archaea said:
You can't buy 1070 cards for half the price of 1080ti cards in current market.

You can buy new 1080ti cards for $700 all day long at amazon, newegg, eBay.

You can't find a 1070 card in stock at MSRP anywhere.
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/gtx1070/

When you overpay $500 ish for a 1070, the 1080ti starts to not look so bad.
Click to expand...

Maybe in the US, but here in Sweden, a 1070 is almost half the price of 1080Ti.
 
Ether is not always the best to mine...
Dual mining takes a hit when you run the TDP that low (55-60%)
 
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