Question on a trade with LadyJaqie

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Tin_10 said:
I COMPLETELY disagree, what says her long HAIR didnt get in between pins when she installed it and it fried the cpu, I dont think the seller has to pay for damages to something that wasnt his, only to the part that he sold to her
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i think im being generous even offering half.

answer me this:
if you bought a used car, then later on the airbag deployed at a random time(what is wrong with the mobo which is unknown at this time) causing you to get whiplash(fried processor). would you sue the person who sold you the car or the manufaturer of the car/airbag/whatever

:edit:
taken from http://www.tabunka.org/special/product.html under 2.
(1) Definition of Product Liability

Product Liability shall be defined as liability for damages in such case as follows:
In the case where due to a defect in the delivered product, a life, a body or property of another person (including a third party not using or consuming the product directly, and a legal person as well as a natural person) is injured, the person who manufactured, processed, imported or put his name, etc. on the product as business is liable for damages of the injured person.
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emphasis added by me

your case is with abit and not me.

----
i already stated that i will pay for shipping to RMA the board. but ive looked(3 times now, third time i spread everything i have on the floor and put every piece back individually just to be POSOTIVE i dont have the chip). if you dont find it (because i definitley dont have it) then ship the board back to me, ill refund the $60 you pid for the board..
but i suggest you call up abit first.
 
this is my last post in this thread.

my father bought a used car and it came with *NO WARRANTY* but the dealer said it worked fine.

three days later a wheel came off while we were in it.
we had to take him to court over the issue.
he was found to be responsible for the cost of repairs and parts and the cost to tow the vehicle because when the vehicle was sold there was an implied warranty that it worked because the dealer did not specifically say that it was not in driveable condition.

he also had to pay court costs and our and his own lawyer fees.
 
LadyJaqie is right... due to this incident as well... 4b5eN+EE is going on my Bad Trader List, meaning i will not buy, trade or sell with him and i will warn others away if they want my opinion (or i feel like putting in my two cents)

and LadyJaqie... you go girl!! you can and will win this thing. he has comitted Breach of Contract (he promised things to you and didn't send them) and he is liable for the damages you did to him. i'm not entirely sure you'll get legal fees out of him tho.

and you do have to start in small claims court, unless that mobo did more than $3000 of damage to your comp and yourself. if either he or you appeal from small claims, it starts over in district court just like normal... but you have to start in small claims.
 
that's not entirely true. it is in some cases, like appelate rule 11 and rule 12(b)(6) but those are covering frivolous lawsuits.
 
fixed post above.

1) what did i promise that i did not deliver? other than stuff i forgot to pack which i have shipped out already.

2) i said i would gurantee it to not be DOA. ill keep my word and refund the money for the board. but, like i said before, applied a warranty to the processor. maybe if i had said "if it damages anything of yours ill replace it" but i didnt.
 
While I am neither a legal expert nor a mod around here, I do enjoy a bit of time spent in TTT dealing with disputes and hunting down trolls. That being said, here is my take on the situation:

1. Was the motherboard DOA? (No, therefore no contract was breeched)

2. What caused the CPU to fry? (You basically can't prove jack shit here; whether it was motheboard damage, known or unknown, or another factor such as user error or even consider something such as a PSU going out, you have no way to show)

3. Why did you continue to run the board with such high temps and lockups? Sounds like a classic case of needing to re-seat the HSF to me...

4. Why do you think that he has any liability for damages caused by a product he sells you? To give yet another analogy, say you buy a gun. You are carrying the gun, and for some reason it goes off and shoots you in the hand. There is no evidence either way as to whether you shot yourself in error or the gun went off due to a malfunction. But either way, I don't believe you can hold the seller responsible for actions taken after the product is sold. Now, had the board fried the CPU instantly, that would be a much more clear cut issue, however since it *did* function for a period of time, I don't believe you have much to stand on.

5. Isn't it possible that the CPU frying resulted in damage to the motherboard, and not the other way around? What's to say it was damaged before the CPU fried?

6. Hypothetically situation: I have a dead CPU. I buy a board. I claim the board killed the CPU. Sounds like the perfect crime to me (Sorry, Ladyjaqie, just playing devil's advocate here)

So, at this point I think it is very generous of you to be offering any sort of refund; there is no proof, IMO, that the board caused the death of the CPU. When boards take out CPUs, they do it quick and silently... they don't let you go half-way through setup and then crap out. That's classic heatsink problem. Would it be good for your reputation to refund the board and/or pay for RMA shipping? Definitly. So consider that, because it is obvious that not everyone shares my view, and also since it is a relativly small amount of $$$, it is well worth the face you are saving in the long run. But no processor replacement.
 
you didn't have to say it... it's what the law requires. you have no choice.

you're already on my Bad Trader List... don't make me point Kyle over here. he'll be p*ssed. at you.
 
starhawk said:
don't make me point Kyle over here. he'll be p*ssed. at you.
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I'm rather disappointed in you starhawk; you've always seemed like a level-headed and reasonable guy to me. But this it getting out of hand. First, you start to quote laws and whatnot about small claims court and other legal action that could be taken in the matter... and this is the first day this has been in TTT! But making threats like that is crossing the line IMO, from objective advise to harrassment/extortion, as in "refund + proc or you'll get sued/get the frgmaster on your ass". That's bullshit and you know it
 
my mother is an attorney. i have discussed law with her many times and i attended a few of her classes.

thus i know what i am talking about there.

however, i do retract my "threat" about telling kyle. he will find out sooner or later on his own.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
[SNIP]So, at this point I think it is very generous of you to be offering any sort of refund; there is no proof, IMO, that the board caused the death of the CPU. When boards take out CPUs, they do it quick and silently... they don't let you go half-way through setup and then crap out. That's classic heatsink problem. Would it be good for your reputation to refund the board and/or pay for RMA shipping? Definitly. So consider that, because it is obvious that not everyone shares my view, and also since it is a relativly small amount of $$$, it is well worth the face you are saving in the long run. But no processor replacement.
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Agreed.

starhawk said:
you didn't have to say it... it's what the law requires. you have no choice. you're already on my Bad Trader List... don't make me point Kyle over here. he'll be p*ssed. at you.
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This I find interesting, but I need to do more research on Tort law before I can comment. And threatening someone with Kyle isn't cool, just dont do it :rolleyes: (edit: you post too fast starhawk :) ). I too have added multiple people to my DNT, but I'm not going to say who since announcing that is kind of stuipd.


Just my humble opinions, but I think this merits more calm discussion and fewer threats,

E
 
LadyMakoFox said:
I've only seen the Kyle threat, but I also see warnings for a possble lawsuit.
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Okay, how about just more calm discussion? :) Nice link on Tort law BTW, I was just looking at that.



E
EDIT:

starhawk said:
i have conversed with ladyjaqui before (at least via [H]) and she is very nice. she must be particularly upset over this indeed.

i personally would pay her for the cpu damage. there's nothing under the law that sez you have to, in fact, the law sez that (assuming your sales "contract" is actually legally upholdable, which i highly doubt) you don't have to pay her a penny for it.

however, it is a kind and courteous thing to do, and i think that she would appreciate that kindness. i know i would.
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starhawk said:
you didn't have to say it... it's what the law requires. you have no choice.
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Am I missing something here? :confused:
 
endscape: you're missing the part where i retracted the earlier post. read the whole thing, not just selectively.
 
starhawk said:
endscape: you're missing the part where i retracted the earlier post. read the whole thing, not just selectively.
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Ahh sorry, missed post #35 :p



E
 
may I ask a question, what is the SELLERS heat and lady jacquie heat? Id like to know.....ive seen the way lady is towards MANY members here in the past, rude, doesnt care who u are, if ur heat is good or what, and to think that this guy sent 1 board, out of all his stuff, it ends up bad, and she claims that it screwed up ALL of her stuff, and u guys believe ONE side....where are these forums going to, and why use threats with KYLE?
 
This all still sounds like pushy bullying techniques designed to make the seller cave in quickly to the demands without examining all the facts and/or decided what he's obligated to do in this situation.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
This all still sounds like pushy bullying techniques designed to make the seller cave in quickly to the demands without examining all the facts and/or decided what he's obligated to do in this situation.
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i agree.


going to court is absoulty retarted for a 70 dollar chip. if this were an opteron 850 or something we were talking about, yeah, id be pissed. but 70 bucks? i bet you can pick one up here on the forums for even less than that, and even in court, you have absoutly no proof that the board fried your CPU.

i just had a dead CPU fry a socket in my brand spankin new MSI dual s370 pro266td master-lr. i have contacted the seller of the chip, he is replacing the chip (whcih is a 1.4ghz pIII-s, BTW. he is a GREAT guy) and i have RMA'd the board to MSI.

CPU's that are messed up can fry boards too, and just cuase it was working one moment doesnt mean itll work the next, you know. just like wtih this board; it was working great for the OP, and now its not working for you. he has offered to keep his word and even pay HALF of your chip(a measly 35 dollars), and you are still pissed. honestly, are you really going to go to court of 35 FREAKIN' DOLLARS?!?!
 
Tin_10 said:
may I ask a question, what is the SELLERS heat and lady jacquie heat? Id like to know.....ive seen the way lady is towards MANY members here in the past, rude, doesnt care who u are, if ur heat is good or what, and to think that this guy sent 1 board, out of all his stuff, it ends up bad, and she claims that it screwed up ALL of her stuff, and u guys believe ONE side....where are these forums going to, and why use threats with KYLE?
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This coming from some screaming scammer about someone else when nothing was wrong with it, and selectived what they wanted to read because he said "and she claims that it screwed up ALL of her stuff" there is a BIG diffrence between ALL the stuff and the CPU.

When is the CPU ALL of the computer?
 
LadyMakoFox said:
This coming from some screaming scammer about someone else when nothing was wrong with it, and selectived what they wanted to read because he said "and she claims that it screwed up ALL of her stuff" there is a BIG diffrence between ALL the stuff and the CPU.

When is the CPU ALL of the computer?
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excuse me, but one what basis do you call Tin10 a "screaming scammer?", or are you just pissed that (almost) none of us thing the OP is responsible.

Tell that to the gun companies.
rolleyes.gif
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wow. i think the argument ends there. he makes an excellent point; if gun companies arent responsible for the people that are dead because of their product, neither abit nor OP is respoinsible for this CPU
 
lithium726 said:
excuse me, but one what basis do you call Tin10 a "screaming scammer?", or are you just pissed (almost) none of us thing the OP is responsible.
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No, I am stating that because he did on another thread that has been deleted by a mod (the thread maker was dealer) and he called him a scammer, and yet managed to still buy from him after calling him a scammer!


And yes the seller is resp. he sold it, thus must replace everything his product damaged
 
LadyMakoFox said:
And yes the seller is resp. he sold it, thus must replace everything his product damaged
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a court will not go on your word. where is your proof? as vertigoacid said, we dont know this chip was killed in the board or not, all we have is her word to go on; itll be her word against his
 
starhawk said:
michael moore already did... see "bowling for columbine".
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Nah, more like he told K-Mart or Wal-Mart (I can't remember which) to pull the ammunition for automatic weapons off of their shelves and they did. The gun companies didn't do shit.
 
LadyMakoFox said:
he sold it, thus must replace everything his product damaged
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No way. I sell you a new carburator for your engine. You put on the carb, that has worked just fine for me, and you install it. Start the engine, and it's making all kinds of noise, bitching and knocking, but you keep running it till it dies. And now you want a replacement engine. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that!
 
LadyMakoFox said:
This coming from some screaming scammer about someone else when nothing was wrong with it, and selectived what they wanted to read because he said "and she claims that it screwed up ALL of her stuff" there is a BIG diffrence between ALL the stuff and the CPU.

When is the CPU ALL of the computer?
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Now be careful not to turn this into a flamefest.

This needs to get resolved, not locked for senseless insults,


E
 
lithium726 said:
a court will not go on your word. where is your proof? as vertigoacid said, we dont know this chip was killed in the board or not, all we have is her word to go on; itll be her word against his
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And AFAIK, the burden of proof rests on the prosecution
 
aBSoLuT_0 said:
Nah, more like he told K-Mart or Wal-Mart (I can't remember which) to pull the ammunition for automatic weapons off of their shelves and they did. The gun companies didn't do shit.
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SIde track:
They did? I can still buy ammo for a BAR there
:eek:
 
I almost hope this goes to small claims court. Some valuable lessons could be learned about our laws and legal system. Besides, it would be fun to watch Judge Judy or Joe Brown have a crack at this. LadyJaqie, the "burden of proof" is on you. Cases are not won on words and hot air. You would need to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that 4b5eN+EE is has not fulfilled his end of the bargain and is responsible for any damage incurred by you.

I don't want to take sides, but at this juncture, 4b5eN+EE's attitude is just a little bit better than yours.

Edit: Vertigo Acid was just a bit quicker than I with this comment. :p

Vertigo Acid said:
And AFAIK, the burden of proof rests on the prosecution
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Vertigo Acid said:
No way. I sell you a new carburator for your engine. You put on the carb, that has worked just fine for me, and you install it. Start the engine, and it's making all kinds of noise, bitching and knocking, but you keep running it till it dies. And now you want a replacement engine. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that!
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Well if the carb damages the motor yes, but I guess this is something for the court to deside be the looks of it.
 
Spectre said:
SIde track:
They did? I can still buy ammo for a BAR there
:eek:
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My mistake, it was handgun ammunition. Link

Detroit Free Press said:
Kmart Corp. unexpectedly agreed to stop selling handgun ammunition in its 2,100 stores nationwide Thursday, swiftly ending a standoff between the retail giant and corporate guerrilla filmmaker Michael Moore.
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