Question for people who don't want to upgrade to Windows 10.

[AltTabbins]

Lets create this hypothetical situation. In this situation, we go back to the original launch of the "upgrade for free" campaign. Instead of Microsoft pushing Windows 10 through a notification icon, it put it somewhere out of view where it was completely optional to upgrade. For sake of this conversation, lets say there was a new icon in control panel that was simply used for your free upgrade. There's no nags, there's no "reminders", just the option in control panel for those who want it. Lets also say there were 2 options with it. 1 where you could do an in-place upgrade, and one where you could download an ISO with utility to burn it to a cd or usb drive (for those of you who want a fresh install and prefer ISO clean installs).

If this was the case, would you have upgraded to Windows 10? Would this change your opinion on the matter? I'm curious to find out.

 

[Ocellaris]

People who wanted to download an ISO with a utility already had that option easily available to them. Unless they are a dumbass.

 

[bigdogchris]

I don't think people are refusing to upgrade because they are being nagged, they are refusing to upgrade due to privacy concerns and/or just not needing a new OS and being happy with 7 or 8.

I was happy with 7 and I was happy with 8 (mostly). I upgraded to 10 just to have a modern OS. 7 is absolutely showing it's age (especially hardware compatibility/features wise).

I want an OS that can install on NVMe PCI SSD's and support modern chip sets, and maintain that drive with proper SSD support. That's just something 7 can't do well.

 

[GotNoRice]

Poll options are ambiguous. "would you have upgraded to Windows 10?" and "Would this change your opinion on the matter?" are two different questions.

 

[AltTabbins]

Poll options are ambiguous. "would you have upgraded to Windows 10?" and "Would this change your opinion on the matter?" are two different questions.

The title of the thread is "Question for people who don't want to upgrade to Windows 10"

 

[Domingow]

OMG yes Absolutely. Also you know who does it this way? Fuckin Apple! Seriously it's not forcefully rammed up my asshole every time I run updates. Fuck you, I'll do it when I want to.

 

[GotNoRice]

The title of the thread is "Question for people who don't want to upgrade to Windows 10"

And the end of your post says:

If this was the case, would you have upgraded to Windows 10? Would this change your opinion on the matter? I'm curious to find out.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

Here's the thing. Eventually, we will all be on Windows 10. Eventually these people will have the HD their OS is on blow up, and they won't have a choice. May be sooner, may be later.

But for most people who have already made the jump to 10, the holdouts sound like some inbred technological hicks who "don't want any of that fancy book-learnin brought around here."

10 is fine. It runs well on most machines, and while sure, there likely is a horror story out there where an upgrade didn't go well, there are 100 or more per that went fine.

The only real "reasons" people have for not upgrading at this point, baring outliers who actually need an older OS to work with an older program they use, is either:

A) Irrational Microsoft Hate (This would fall under your choice C most likely)

or

B) conspiracy freaks who are worried that their online viewing habits will be sold to Taiwan by MS, and they will then soon be outed as they start receiving mail order bride catalogues from that country.


All kidding aside, most of the people worried about "privacy" usually will have a near dozen other programs that do the same thing 10 does, only without their knowledge, and the people bitching about not being able to control their own updates are also likely part of the crew who was the reason MS ended up DOING forced updates in the first place, because they likely would never "get around" to patching that major security flaw MS sent a patch out for 6 months ago.

Really, 99% of the uproar over 10 is much ado about nothing. I won't say its the best thing since sliced bread, but it's hardly as evil as people make it, and I see this hard (and yes, I will say in part, unethical) push to get people on 10 has more to do with the security side of things than anything else.

Anyway, that's my take.

 

[cyclone3d]

OMG yes Absolutely. Also you know who does it this way? Fuckin Apple! Seriously it's not forcefully rammed up my asshole every time I run updates. Fuck you, I'll do it when I want to.

Really???

Pretty much all the iPhones I have worked with as an IT person (home use and work use), nag about the updates.

Sure you can choose to update later, but then most of the apps will not update at all until you install the iOS update.

Apple just does it in a more round about way, so you aren't forced to upgrade until your apps will not work anymore.

 

[Monkey God]

I haven't upgraded because it doesn't do anything for me I want or need. My decision has nothing to do with the mechanism of the upgrade process.

 

[Domingow]

Because OS X and not IOS....
Every iteration of debian I used had the update in the App Store, and not as a nag screen tricking you to update. Again this is my decision to update and not Microsoft's. Will I go to 10? Yes, but I'll do it when I feel it is appropriate to do so.

Also, what the fuck. Equating folks that choose not to upgrade IMMEDIATELY as ludits is absurd. Are there rational reasons to wait? Yes. Am I going to list them, No fuck you.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

Because OS X and not IOS....
Every iteration of debian I used had the update in the App Store, and not as a nag screen tricking you to update. Again this is my decision to update and not Microsoft's. Will I go to 10? Yes, but I'll do it when I feel it is appropriate to do so.

Also, what the fuck. Equating folks that choose not to upgrade IMMEDIATELY as ludits is absurd. Are there rational reasons to wait? Yes. Am I going to list them, No fuck you.

Your last sentence isn't exactly a compelling argument against mine, especially when you misspell "luddite".

 

[Domingow]

I never said I was a great speeler.

But if you want to kick the person with a documented learning disability, by all means go for it.

Either way, my position still stands. I will upgrade once I feel it is appropriate to do so. Using guerrilla tactics to force users into compliance is not a good and sustainable strategy. You know where my MCSE certification is? In the bathroom, I use it to WIPE MY ASS everytime I take a SHIT.

(and not that new bulshit MCSE one, the old school one that required knowledge to pass)

 

[Zion Halcyon]

I never said I was a great speeler.

But if you want to kick the person with a documented learning disability, by all means go for it.

Either way, my position still stands. I will upgrade once I feel it is appropriate to do so. Using guerrilla tactics to force users into compliance is not a good and sustainable strategy. You know where my MCSE certification is? In the bathroom, I use it to WIPE MY ASS everytime I take a SHIT.

Also not exactly refuting my main argument.

 

[michalrz]

Lets create this hypothetical situation. In this situation, we go back to the original launch of the "upgrade for free" campaign. Instead of Microsoft pushing Windows 10 through a notification icon, it put it somewhere out of view where it was completely optional to upgrade. For sake of this conversation, lets say there was a new icon in control panel that was simply used for your free upgrade. There's no nags, there's no "reminders", just the option in control panel for those who want it. Lets also say there were 2 options with it. 1 where you could do an in-place upgrade, and one where you could download an ISO with utility to burn it to a cd or usb drive (for those of you who want a fresh install and prefer ISO clean installs).

If this was the case, would you have upgraded to Windows 10? Would this change your opinion on the matter? I'm curious to find out.

I'm sorry for creating my own cliffs, I hope I got your question right.
To put it another way - what caused me to skip Windows 10?
1. Was it the nagging?
Only when the popup box was designed like a Soviet era quiz question: who is your hero and explain why is it Stalin. Yes, luckily I teach my users about the basics of window management, of snapping, of peek, of pinning, of the difference between closing and minimalising. So they all got it right and either did nothing and called for support, or clicked 'X' because it should be the default. (hint: de-fault. something that doesn't introduce a fault.)
When it asked for the second time, we were all annoyed in the department. There was bad karma. The coffee tasted foul.
When it appeared in Windows Update in the form of a banner, with "show me what I actually wanted" below in tiny-font, I am not cool with that. I don't care about smudging my MS discs nomore. I will place them on the desk write-surface down. I will pour some sand into the disc envelope. F.... um thank you for asking, OS, but seriously if my lightbulbs began blinking because there are new ones available I'd hang myself.

2. Is the ability of doing either an in-place upgrade or being able to get a disc image important to me?
Very. Give me that AND the ability to roll back (and I'm talking ghost-style roll back) would be very helpful so I don't have to feel like a criminal or simply being left cheaped-out even though I pay for all software and don't even get the iffy Volume ones. We are an outfit that falls into many of the groups of users MS identifies. So some of the VLK type crap is NOT edu and NOT volunteer, but still some education, some therapy, some administrative stuff related to social aid. Also, I have horrible 20Mb internet and thus I need my Windows binary goodness on a thumbdrive along with an USB DVD burner or something along these lines. Thankfully good deeds like the convenience rollup give me some faith in humanity.

3. So why else swayed towards doing a 360 and running upwards on a nearby wall?
I've heard some shit. Such as that the alpha/beta/epsilon version build 3.14 accessed imaging devices without explicit permission or shared keystrokes with a random server somewhere.
So as you see my case is weak here. I haven't since found a believable rebuttal, so it is what it is.
Ads. I can't have them. Not even promoting what is now shown in the least important updates section. I need the screen real estate and I can't have the possibility of a marketing person confusing the users I work with.
I can't into cloud. I just can't have the risk. The laws on data protection and personal info protection is very anal here and I will actually be audited next month. If they found out some dumbass at one of my workplaces managed to spastically drag and drop something to an online storage - I get sent to the quarry with a rubber hammer. I didn't prevent the horror.
I am required to maintain disc images of working software setups (partition table, OS, software, configs) and if an update happens that breaks my shit and it's right before backup o'clock, I might lose a day of work. I have a staggered upgrade schedule and there are days I just have to risk not updating because something super important in real life happens. Update reboots or patching during a presentation is undesirable.

 

[DPI]

Here's the thing. Eventually, we will all be on Windows 10.

Bullshit.

 

[AltTabbins]

Bullshit.

Since Microsoft isn't going to release new editions of Windows anymore, its either this or Linux.. or Apple

 

[Zion Halcyon]

Since Microsoft isn't going to release new editions of Windows anymore, its either this or Linux.. or Apple

Exactly. And its all good. If he wants to plant his IT flag and yell at kids to get off his lawn, its fine, because when he kicks the bucket, the next generation will be using the updated Windows 10 anyway, and they won't have a giant stick up their asses over it, because they grew up with it.

 

[DPI]

Since Microsoft isn't going to release new editions of Windows anymore,

Until they do. Marketing departments have been known to change their minds.

As long as Windows 10 uptake continues to slow down month over month, you can be sure yet another re-brand is inevitable, especially some kind of pure cloud edition or ad based freebie version.

 

[Sp33dFr33k]

For me it had nothing to do with the nag to upgrade. It's just all the crap that comes with Windows 10. I want an operating system that is behind the scenes of everything I do, I don't need a personal assistant, an app store or my facebook feed updating on my desktop in real time. I use an OS so I can run software on top of it. For me Windows 7 runs the software I use, doesn't crash and I never have issues with updates. There are no features in Windows 10 that interest me enough to go through the upgrade. If the made a Windows 10 "lite", with nothing but the OS I would upgrade. The enterprise version is about as close to a basic version as I would want.

 

[heatlesssun]

For me it had nothing to do with the nag to upgrade. It's just all the crap that comes with Windows 10. I want an operating system that is behind the scenes of everything I do, I don't need a personal assistant, an app store or my facebook feed updating on my desktop in real time. I use an OS so I can run software on top of it. For me Windows 7 runs the software I use, doesn't crash and I never have issues with updates. There are no features in Windows 10 that interest me enough to go through the upgrade. If the made a Windows 10 "lite", with nothing but the OS I would upgrade. The enterprise version is about as close to a basic version as I would want.

Fortunately even with even the Home version of Windows 10 I don't have to deal with Facebook feeds updating my devices either.

 

[MacLeod]

No because I like Windows 7. It works perfectly fine, the interface is nearly perfect whereas the UI for 10 is shit. I don't understand why some make it seem like I'm the asshole because I don't want to "upgrade". I know I'll have to eventually but as long as Win7 is working just fine and the "upgrade" still looks like Win8, I'll be sticking with 7 as long as I can.

And like somebody else mentioned, all the shit and bloat that comes on it.

 

[silent-circuit]

The bloat is gone in the first, what, 20-30 minutes, if that? And honestly, having had 10 on my desktop for a while it makes going back to my laptop running 7 hard. It's just ugly in comparison. Only reason I haven't bothered on the laptop is I barely use the thing.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

The bloat is gone in the first, what, 20-30 minutes, if that? And honestly, having had 10 on my desktop for a while it makes going back to my laptop running 7 hard. It's just ugly in comparison. Only reason I haven't bothered on the laptop is I barely use the thing.

Exactly. Bitchers gonna bitch.

 

[naib]

Poll is non-HMES compliant. its crap, stop wasting my bandwidth & learn to make correct poll options

 

[Deleted member 245375]

The only way I'm going to run Windows 10 is if Microsoft gives me and my wife matching Surface Books maxed out with the best hardware they offer as well as every freakin' accessory they make for 'em (and I mean all of them, which means every cover/keyboard/etc in every color, not just one color) as well as giving us two of the best smartphones they make (not that I care about 'em) and 2 years of unlimited T-Mobile service.

I'd actually run Windows 10 in that kind of situation but seeing as they would never stoop quite that low to benefit me - while they will stoop even lower to piss me off with the Windows 10 upgrade fiasco - then I guess Windows 10 just isn't in my future as a daily runner OS (or my wife's, thankfully).

I voted "No" obviously 'cause the other "blah blah blah" thing didn't seem to be of much use in the poll's options.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

The only way I'm going to run Windows 10 is if Microsoft gives me and my wife matching Surface Books maxed out with the best hardware they offer as well as every freakin' accessory they make for 'em (and I mean all of them, which means every cover/keyboard/etc in every color, not just one color) as well as giving us two of the best smartphones they make (not that I care about 'em) and 2 years of unlimited T-Mobile service.

I'd actually run Windows 10 in that kind of situation but seeing as they would never stoop quite that low to benefit me - while they will stoop even lower to piss me off with the Windows 10 upgrade fiasco - then I guess Windows 10 just isn't in my future as a daily runner OS (or my wife's, thankfully).

I voted "No" obviously 'cause the other "blah blah blah" thing didn't seem to be of much use in the poll's options.

See, stuff like this is what I was talking about.

Most people that hate Windows 10 do so because "reasons". As in, its less rational and more emotional.

Tell me you can't upgrade because you're running software that needs 7? Ok, I get it.
Say that frankly you just don't want to have to learn a new OS because you are comfortable with 7? Lazy, but I appreciate the honesty.

But most "reasons" aren't like that. They usually are the same and one note with either implicit or explicit overtones of "Microsoft is the devil!" or "Windows 10 is the devil!" - just pure emotional gobbledygook.

That's why I can't respect most of the Windows 10 hate - it's just utter emotional nonsense that people try to surround with better-sounding reasons to convince themselves and others it really isn't just a purely irrational, emotional decision.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

Windows 10 provides zero purpose for me over Windows 7 and provides zero additional, new, or improved functionality or performance over Windows 7 on the same hardware and I have tested Windows 7 vs Windows 10 on this laptop of mine (info in the sig).

Zero functionality improvements, zero performance benefits. It's not a new OS so there is no learning curve for me - don't assume that would be a reason (I've been using Microsoft personal computer OSes since the mid-1970s when they came into existence, just for the record). It offers me nothing over a rock solid stable Windows 7 Professional installation on my laptop that is as dependable as a personal computer operating system can possibly be.

It's not an emotional decision at all, it never has been, it never will be, it's just a useless product from Microsoft for me (and many many other people) and we don't appreciate what Microsoft is doing - not attempting to do but actually doing - which is shoving Windows 10 down our collective throats which IS a reason to get emotional about it because what they're doing is plainly and simply fucking stupid and I hate fucking stupid with a passion. The bullshit they pulled the other day by altering the functionality of the CLOSE GADGET which has been there in the upper right hand corner of Windows since Windows 95 was released - Microsoft itself modifying the Close gadget to do exactly the opposite of the intended purpose was tantamount to them creating malware out of their own damned product and I for one consider it a practically unforgivable action.

Malware does that shit and reverses the actions you expect to happen when you click that kind of well-known gadget - I'm still somewhat baffled at Microsoft's behavior I really am. I'm sitting here catching up on the TV show "Person of Interest" and if I didn't know better I'd think Microsoft was pulling a Samaritan-style tactic with that, I really would (I'm not going to explain it but those people that do watch the show will know exactly what I'm referring to).

Microsoft wrote and pushed malware to their own damned customers on purpose with intent and full knowledge of their action(s) with that maneuver and it wouldn't surprise me to see at least one lawsuit come about because of it.

Change for the sake of change is never a good idea, period, and all Windows 10 happens to be is change for the sake of change, period.

Now, some people - primarily hardcore gamers that want DirectX 12 functionality and support or something along those lines - may have a legitimate reason to use Windows 10 since that's the only OS with DirectX 12 support (don't believe the hype either: Microsoft had internal Windows 7 and 8/8.1 patched builds that were fully DX12 compliant way back in 2014 but they buried it faster than a cat covering its own shit). I'm not one of those people but I do understand why those hardcore gamers will use it for those reasons.

For the average general computer owner, Windows 10 presents nothing of substance except another damned GUI change that never really needed to happen and again it's change for the sake of change. I know, this, even Microsoft knows this: if the idea to change things so dramatically from 7 to 8 was such a good idea then 8.1 would not have come along so damned fast on the heels of the 8 release. Microsoft broke shit, including the trust of users, and they still haven't recovered from it.

Windows 10 just makes it worse and I don't care if it's free of any monetary cost, it's useless to me and most others who have stable solid Windows 7 machines (and even people with 8/8.1 too).

As for you having any or no respect for "Windows 10 hate" I don't think it matters since that's just a personal opinion - you're entitled to that, of course, but that's as far as it goes.

 

[Axdrenalin]

Here's the thing. Eventually, we will all be on Windows 10. Eventually these people will have the HD their OS is on blow up, and they won't have a choice. May be sooner, may be later.

But for most people who have already made the jump to 10, the holdouts sound like some inbred technological hicks who "don't want any of that fancy book-learnin brought around here."

10 is fine. It runs well on most machines, and while sure, there likely is a horror story out there where an upgrade didn't go well, there are 100 or more per that went fine.

The only real "reasons" people have for not upgrading at this point, baring outliers who actually need an older OS to work with an older program they use, is either:

A) Irrational Microsoft Hate (This would fall under your choice C most likely)

or

B) conspiracy freaks who are worried that their online viewing habits will be sold to Taiwan by MS, and they will then soon be outed as they start receiving mail order bride catalogues from that country.


All kidding aside, most of the people worried about "privacy" usually will have a near dozen other programs that do the same thing 10 does, only without their knowledge, and the people bitching about not being able to control their own updates are also likely part of the crew who was the reason MS ended up DOING forced updates in the first place, because they likely would never "get around" to patching that major security flaw MS sent a patch out for 6 months ago.

Really, 99% of the uproar over 10 is much ado about nothing. I won't say its the best thing since sliced bread, but it's hardly as evil as people make it, and I see this hard (and yes, I will say in part, unethical) push to get people on 10 has more to do with the security side of things than anything else.

Anyway, that's my take.

I'd have to disagree with the majority of this, and it sounds like a bit of fanboyism to me. I've been into computers for 30+ years, and have familiarity with PC's long before Windows was a thing. I've been on the MS Windows platform ever since version 3.0, and have never before had any real issues with wanting to upgrade. Hell, I even upgraded to Windows ME (Millennium) when it was out, and was relatively successful using it. I was using Windows 10 when it was in Beta, and while things looked all pretty and good at first, there are things that I just don't care for about it. It doesn't seem to play well with previous versions of Windows in the network environment, most times breaking network printers to adjacent machines and some other devices.

All in all, I don't hate M$ products. We've been a Microsoft shop for 20 years now at work. They've advanced the business world by leaps and bounds over the past three decades and their software is top notch. But let me just ask you one thing... When has M$ EVER given their OS or other flagship products away? Why now, all of a sudden with the release of Windows 10, do they feel compelled to be so generous to the serfs and peasants of the world and bestow such an advance OS on them, free of charge (for a limited time only)? Come on, doesn't that make you the slightest bit cautious or wary of what they're doing?

I'll admit also that I have privacy concerns using Windows 10. It isn't that I'm concerned with my surfing habits being made known or that I'm doing anything wrong, it's just the simple fact that I don't think it's ethical or something that M$, the Government or the NSA have any business collecting that data from anyone else. It doesn't matter what OS you're using if your online anyway, there is enough data collection going on between all of the routers and servers to tell virtually anyone what you're doing on the Interwebs anyway. Data collection is king in this day and age, everyone is a potential criminal based on what the government says and while a lot of these younger folks don't care (or have any idea) what's being collected about them, I feel that it's nothing more than an attempt to have data available to some entity that can be used against you in a potentially adverse scenario in the future. Use TOR? You're already under suspicion according to the government. What's next on their list of suspicious behavior that will make them want to glance over all the data that they've collected on you? If only George Orwell was alive today to see just how close he was to accurately predicting the future.

 

[Monkey God]

That's why I can't respect most of the Windows 10 hate - it's just utter emotional nonsense that people try to surround with better-sounding reasons to convince themselves and others it really isn't just a purely irrational, emotional decision.

If you think people reacting negatively to Microsoft's pushy "mother knows best" attitude about shoving everyone in a walled-garden with ads and a store and big brother logging everything you do (oh and no new functionality), there's really nothing much else to talk about.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

Windows 10 provides zero purpose for me over Windows 7 and provides zero additional, new, or improved functionality or performance over Windows 7 on the same hardware and I have tested Windows 7 vs Windows 10 on this laptop of mine (info in the sig).

Zero functionality improvements, zero performance benefits. It's not a new OS so there is no learning curve for me - don't assume that would be a reason (I've been using Microsoft personal computer OSes since the mid-1970s when they came into existence, just for the record). It offers me nothing over a rock solid stable Windows 7 Professional installation on my laptop that is as dependable as a personal computer operating system can possibly be.

It's not an emotional decision at all, it never has been, it never will be, it's just a useless product from Microsoft for me (and many many other people) and we don't appreciate what Microsoft is doing - not attempting to do but actually doing - which is shoving Windows 10 down our collective throats which IS a reason to get emotional about it because what they're doing is plainly and simply fucking stupid and I hate fucking stupid with a passion. The bullshit they pulled the other day by altering the functionality of the CLOSE GADGET which has been there in the upper right hand corner of Windows since Windows 95 was released - Microsoft itself modifying the Close gadget to do exactly the opposite of the intended purpose was tantamount to them creating malware out of their own damned product and I for one consider it a practically unforgivable action.

Malware does that shit and reverses the actions you expect to happen when you click that kind of well-known gadget - I'm still somewhat baffled at Microsoft's behavior I really am. I'm sitting here catching up on the TV show "Person of Interest" and if I didn't know better I'd think Microsoft was pulling a Samaritan-style tactic with that, I really would (I'm not going to explain it but those people that do watch the show will know exactly what I'm referring to).

Microsoft wrote and pushed malware to their own damned customers on purpose with intent and full knowledge of their action(s) with that maneuver and it wouldn't surprise me to see at least one lawsuit come about because of it.

Change for the sake of change is never a good idea, period, and all Windows 10 happens to be is change for the sake of change, period.

Now, some people - primarily hardcore gamers that want DirectX 12 functionality and support or something along those lines - may have a legitimate reason to use Windows 10 since that's the only OS with DirectX 12 support (don't believe the hype either: Microsoft had internal Windows 7 and 8/8.1 patched builds that were fully DX12 compliant way back in 2014 but they buried it faster than a cat covering its own shit). I'm not one of those people but I do understand why those hardcore gamers will use it for those reasons.

For the average general computer owner, Windows 10 presents nothing of substance except another damned GUI change that never really needed to happen and again it's change for the sake of change. I know, this, even Microsoft knows this: if the idea to change things so dramatically from 7 to 8 was such a good idea then 8.1 would not have come along so damned fast on the heels of the 8 release. Microsoft broke shit, including the trust of users, and they still haven't recovered from it.

Windows 10 just makes it worse and I don't care if it's free of any monetary cost, it's useless to me and most others who have stable solid Windows 7 machines (and even people with 8/8.1 too).

As for you having any or no respect for "Windows 10 hate" I don't think it matters since that's just a personal opinion - you're entitled to that, of course, but that's as far as it goes.

Oh? Then these new Windows 10 features on my PC must be a mistake? Maybe I got a bad version of Windows 10 that had extra and new features? Should I return it? Is it defective?

 

[Zion Halcyon]

I'd have to disagree with the majority of this, and it sounds like a bit of fanboyism to me. I've been into computers for 30+ years, and have familiarity with PC's long before Windows was a thing. I've been on the MS Windows platform ever since version 3.0, and have never before had any real issues with wanting to upgrade. Hell, I even upgraded to Windows ME (Millennium) when it was out, and was relatively successful using it. I was using Windows 10 when it was in Beta, and while things looked all pretty and good at first, there are things that I just don't care for about it. It doesn't seem to play well with previous versions of Windows in the network environment, most times breaking network printers to adjacent machines and some other devices.

All in all, I don't hate M$ products. We've been a Microsoft shop for 20 years now at work. They've advanced the business world by leaps and bounds over the past three decades and their software is top notch. But let me just ask you one thing... When has M$ EVER given their OS or other flagship products away? Why now, all of a sudden with the release of Windows 10, do they feel compelled to be so generous to the serfs and peasants of the world and bestow such an advance OS on them, free of charge (for a limited time only)? Come on, doesn't that make you the slightest bit cautious or wary of what they're doing?

I'll admit also that I have privacy concerns using Windows 10. It isn't that I'm concerned with my surfing habits being made known or that I'm doing anything wrong, it's just the simple fact that I don't think it's ethical or something that M$, the Government or the NSA have any business collecting that data from anyone else. It doesn't matter what OS you're using if your online anyway, there is enough data collection going on between all of the routers and servers to tell virtually anyone what you're doing on the Interwebs anyway. Data collection is king in this day and age, everyone is a potential criminal based on what the government says and while a lot of these younger folks don't care (or have any idea) what's being collected about them, I feel that it's nothing more than an attempt to have data available to some entity that can be used against you in a potentially adverse scenario in the future. Use TOR? You're already under suspicion according to the government. What's next on their list of suspicious behavior that will make them want to glance over all the data that they've collected on you? If only George Orwell was alive today to see just how close he was to accurately predicting the future.

Sure, call the guy who said WIndows 10 isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread a fanboy. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

For me, its less about Windows 10, and more about the sick pathos some people have in trying to justify what essentially amounts to preference.

Just own up and admit its PREFERENCE! Don't give me this "Microsoft is the devil and Windows 10 is shit" bullshit! There's plenty of people out there, enthusiasts too, who are loving Windows 10, or at least aren't bothered by it at all and just took advantage of a FREE UPGRADE.

THAT'S what's killing me - all these longwinded attempts to try to justify a PREFERENCE. You don't need to demonize WIndows 10 or MS for that. Just say you like 7 better and leave it at that. The harder people try to justify NOT moving to 10, the more emotional it makes them appear - why put that much effort into defending your position?

And before people say "you're getting emotional defending MS" - that's a strawman. I am greatly annoyed at how people try to justify being a whiner. So yeah, I am calling people out on that, and of course there will be some who don't take kindly to it, and I accept that.


Maybe I should have just kept it simple from the beginning and said "If you like 7, fine. Windows 10 is fine too. So stop your bitching like a little kid."

And that covers just about covers it all - cliff notes.

 

[michalrz]

This is a computer enthusiast forum. We tweak more than most speed addicts.
You have to draw the line between what's necessary to keep up-to-date and what is not.
The OS is an unsung hero of the computer world.
It is by definition the bare minimum needed between hardware and Word/Excel/CAD/Photochop/Whatever. It has to provide window management (because the software we use is windowed), memory management, networking.
It's nice to see MS catering to people who appreciate a good looking, sleek work environment, because our clients would be put off if Microsoft stuck with the original 98' style GUI.
But, again, compromising security by poorly set default settings, confusing users with dual GUIs (in 8/8.1) and (supposedly) disrupting the workflow with captive patching is too serious of a mistake.

 

[heatlesssun]

Change for the sake of change is never a good idea, period, and all Windows 10 happens to be is change for the sake of change, period.

You may not like the changes or use them but for those that do this simply isn't true.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just own up and admit its PREFERENCE! Don't give me this "Microsoft is the devil and Windows 10 is shit" bullshit! There's plenty of people out there, enthusiasts too, who are loving Windows 10, or at least aren't bothered by it at all and just took advantage of a FREE UPGRADE.

THAT'S what's killing me - all these longwinded attempts to try to justify a PREFERENCE. You don't need to demonize WIndows 10 or MS for that. Just say you like 7 better and leave it at that. The harder people try to justify NOT moving to 10, the more emotional it makes them appear - why put that much effort into defending your position?

I think some of the complaints about Windows 10 are valid. The nagware for upgrading should be easier to manage and disable and there should be more ability to disable some of the telemetry, though I think much that's been said about the telemetry and privacy is just over the top hype. Things regarding the Windows Store and UI though ultimately are about preference. The update system is a lot trickier. Windows 10 follows a an agile development path of constant feature updates. Not forcing updates with that kind of development approach simply doesn't work. Windows 10 is about to receive its second major functionality update in a year. The 10240 RTM that launched last year is substantially different from the Version 1607 that will launch in July. Not forcing updates on the consumer end would essentially mean 3 different versions of Windows 10.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I guess you missed the part - like people so often do - where I clearly say "for me" in that post, right? Right? I'm sure you just missed it in your eagerness to lambast me, right? Right? And the smiley or two in the original post I made which basically ensures there's some levity to what I was saying? Right?

You may not like the changes or use them but for those that do this simply isn't true.

And again, "for me" is relevant hence me putting it plainly there in my post.

Here's what Microsoft should have done with the free upgrade offer to Windows 10 upon release last summer:

Have an update ready that when installed creates a dialogue box that asks the question: "Would you like to upgrade to Windows 10 for free at this time? Click "Yes" or click "No." If you wish to upgrade at a later time you can vist: <some Microsoft URL> and download the Windows 10 stub installer and follow the instructions."

And never ever bother people with it again, nor provide updates with ulterior motives, nor patch the previous OSes with anything retroactive to do a workaround uninvited unexpected and definitely unwelcome installations of Windows 10 after the fact in any way, shape, manner, or form and most especially in the middle of the night when people aren't using their computers only to start using them the following waking period and realize "WTF MICROSOFT, YOU ASSHOLES..." or something of that nature.

That's where all the problems started, when Microsoft decided "Hey, fuck consumers, we know what they really want and we're going to shove it down their collective throats so often - like hearing a shitty song on the radio that you really hate with a passion but after so many repeated listens you find yourself humming/singing the very song you hate because that's how it works..." - that they simply won't even be aware it's happened and by then it'll be too damned late."

Microsoft? Evil? No, because that's an insult to actually evil entities - this is just stupid on a massive scale.

 

[Zion Halcyon]

I think some of the complaints about Windows 10 are valid. The nagware for upgrading should be easier to manage and disable and there should be more ability to disable some of the telemetry, though I think much that's been said about the telemetry and privacy is just over the top hype. Things regarding the Windows Store and UI though ultimately are about preference. The update system is a lot trickier. Windows 10 follows a an agile development path of constant feature updates. Not forcing updates with that kind of development approach simply doesn't work. Windows 10 is about to receive its second major functionality update in a year. The 10240 RTM that launched last year is substantially different from the Version 1607 that will launch in July. Not forcing updates on the consumer end would essentially mean 3 different versions of Windows 10.

Of course some of the complaints are valid. Its not a perfect OS. No such thing.

The issue for me isn't Windows 10, or even making a valid observation.

It's the people who take others' valid observations and build a crazy rant or militant stance around it.

Like one person overhearing another person saying "wow, this cup of coffee is meh." and they go to anyone else who will listen "That brand of coffee is TERRIBLE! Boycott the brand! Call in the Army! Call in the National Guard! That coffee brand should be out of business!" at least in tone if not words.

THAT is what rubs me the wrong way.

 

[michalrz]

Windows 10 follows a an agile development path of constant feature updates. Not forcing updates with that kind of development approach simply doesn't work.

Yes, such an approach will result in multiple combinations of software, and that would make testing and troubleshooting problems harder because everyone has a different set of code running on their systems.
People are lazy, they don't understand how some features would improve their workflow and they are often too lazy to reboot so a security patch can be installed.
But nothing should happen out of the blue. Shneiderman's first rule of UI design - strive for constintency.
Let me give an example: I don't like that OS' like Windows 7 patch themselves during shutdown. When I shutdown my computer, I am probably done with my stuff and I don't like when I have to stay and make sure the machines shutdown properly and not run over the weekend. Start-up time is a much better time, but if I'm to give a presentation, I don't want to open my laptop up and just display Windows Update for a hundred people.
Checkdisk and even the Windows Installer give you a few seconds to back out of a HDD check or booting the install CD. Windows Update should give that option and we'd have this group of problems settled.

 

[heatlesssun]

And again, "for me" is relevant hence me putting it plainly there in my post.

Fair enough, it's just that change for the sake of change, period, sounds more than personal reference. You have to consider the changes in relation to how others perceive them even if you don't like them. There are reasons for these things that may not be clear if one doesn't use them. Like the Windows Store and store apps.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes, such an approach will result in multiple combinations of software, and that would make testing and troubleshooting problems harder because everyone has a different set of code running on their systems.
People are lazy, they don't understand how some features would improve their workflow and they are often too lazy to reboot so a security patch can be installed.
But nothing should happen out of the blue. Shneiderman's first rule of UI design - strive for constintency.
Let me give an example: I don't like that OS' like Windows 7 patch themselves during shutdown. When I shutdown my computer, I am probably done with my stuff and I don't like when I have to stay and make sure the machines shutdown properly and not run over the weekend. Start-up time is a much better time, but if I'm to give a presentation, I don't want to open my laptop up and just display Windows Update for a hundred people.
Checkdisk and even the Windows Installer give you a few seconds to back out of a HDD check or booting the install CD. Windows Update should give that option and we'd have this group of problems settled.

Again, just allowing rejection any and all updates doesn't solve anything in a situation where there are constant functional changes going on. One of the biggest changes in Windows 10 was the move to a more agile approach. No more 1 year cycle for services packs or 3 years of development for major new features. If updates aren't forced there's no way to do this kind of development generally.