Question about networking

p3sty

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Cutting the cord the house has coaxial throughout . I have read about MoCA adapters is there anything else I can do besides trying to run cat 5?
 

BlueLineSwinger

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If you can run Cat 5e or higher, that's going to be your best bet. Cat 6 isn't much more expensive, but can be more difficult to properly terminate. Cat 6a is appreciably more costly, and is definitely more difficult to terminate.

MOCA is probably the best option as a wired substitute, assuming your coax isn't being used for satellite TV. The v2.5 adapters are currently best, but if you're budget-constrained the v2.0 ones are a bit cheaper and fine for lower-bandwidth usage. Verify any coax splitters are >=1600 MHz, remove any unneeded lines/splits, and you have a MOCA filter in place.

Powerline has apparently gotten better, but can still be problematic. If you go that route, pick them up from somewhere with a decent return policy in case they don't work out.
 

ComputerBox34

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How old is the coax in your house? If it's RG59 or below, you're pretty much screwed for MOCA.
 

scrappymouse

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Maybe powerline ethernet as well, though I know relatively little about it.
I use powerline adapters they work fantastic for my use case, in addition, some of the newer ones have an AP built in so you can extend wifi through powerline as well. My brother did this for his shop(I was surprised this worked) but apparently his shop is one the same breaker as his main house. In addition, I use them in my house to go from my living room to my spare bedroom. Only issue I've ever had with them, is having to unplug/replug them after a power outage
 

philb2

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How old is the coax in your house? If it's RG59 or below, you're pretty much screwed for MOCA.
I'm picking up on this old thread because I read somewhere that MOCA can run at higher bandwidth than powerline adapters. For sure, the cable in my house is like 30 years old, and I'm sure it's RG-59 (or RG-58?)and I just read where RG-6 would be better. That said, when the cable TV world went to digital, no big deal. I have set-top boxes from Comcast and they work just fine for 1080 p TV. I haven't yet tried 4K or 8K TV. Do you guys think that MOCA 2.0 would work and not be a waste of money.

I would want MOCA in 3 different locations in my house. The cable network includes splitters, etc, and all open connectors are properly terminated. Do I need to replace the existing splitters with something more compatible with MOCA?

I know that Cat 5 or better would be the best choice, but it's just not practical to break through drywall, drill through studs and floorplates, and fish wires between floors.
 

Vengance_01

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I would say this Is what I would want

Hardline Ethernet>Moca Coax> toss up between Wireless and Powerline.
 

Stugots

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If you do powerline networking you'll need something to bridge the phases, or else you'll only have communications on one phase.

I personally would just rip out all the damn coax and run cat6 or better. You could try doing wireless everywhere. Depends on what your bandwidth/latency requirements are.
 

Vengance_01

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If you do powerline networking you'll need something to bridge the phases, or else you'll only have communications on one phase.

I personally would just rip out all the damn coax and run cat6 or better. You could try doing wireless everywhere. Depends on what your bandwidth/latency requirements are.
Hopefully it's not stapled to the 2x4s. But yes if you can use the old coax to run new cat 5/6 do it.
 

philb2

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If you do powerline networking you'll need something to bridge the phases, or else you'll only have communications on one phase.
That sounds like a good argument against powerline.

I personally would just rip out all the damn coax and run cat6 or better. You could try doing wireless everywhere. Depends on what your bandwidth/latency requirements are.
Ripping out the coax would require trashing drywall in both floors of the house, in just about all rooms. Even if I just "abandoned" the coax and installed Cat 6, there would be a lot of trashed drywall.

I would like to get the best bandwidth consistent with not touching the drywall.
 

philb2

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I would say this Is what I would want

Hardline Ethernet>Moca Coax> toss up between Wireless and Powerline.
OK, so I think I wnat to do Moca Coax. I still need to know if I it's OK to run the Moca signal through the existing splitters.
 

D-EJ915

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What is "it" here?


How would I do that? Not sure I understand.

Some of the second floor coax is routed along a stairway to the first floor, on the way to the crawl space, where all the coax connects via splitters to the coax feed from Comcast.
Basically you secure your new cable to the old one and use the old one as a pullstring, it'd be good to also attach an actual pullstring to it as well while doing it so you can use that to run another cable if necessary in the future. I've got no advice on how to best secure it so it doesn't come loose though.
 

philb2

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Basically you secure your new cable to the old one and use the old one as a pullstring, it'd be good to also attach an actual pullstring to it as well while doing it so you can use that to run another cable if necessary in the future. I've got no advice on how to best secure it so it doesn't come loose though.
If I remember how where the coax cable runs were when I installed them around 1990, when the house was being remodelled, I would really worry about succeeding in pulling a new cable+Cat 6.

Moca, if it works, has the advantage (to me) of being faster to implemnt, and requiring a lot less effort. Besides, I already have a big list of house TO DOs, and She Who Must Be Obeyed would probably place this item far down on the list.
 

Vengance_01

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What is "it" here?


How would I do that? Not sure I understand.

Some of the second floor coax is routed along a stairway to the first floor, on the way to the crawl space, where all the coax connects via splitters to the coax feed from Comcast.
It I am referring to the coax cable. My house the coax is stapled through the run meaning I can't pull it out and in the process pull new Ethernet
 

Stugots

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That sounds like a good argument against powerline.


Ripping out the coax would require trashing drywall in both floors of the house, in just about all rooms. Even if I just "abandoned" the coax and installed Cat 6, there would be a lot of trashed drywall.

I would like to get the best bandwidth consistent with not touching the drywall.

You can't just use the existing coax to pull the cat6 through?
 

Nicklebon

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You can't just use the existing coax to pull the cat6 through?
Very seldom is any cabling or wiring free floating inside walls. It is usually stapled every few feet. Even when it is free floating the holes in studs are usually such that pulling thicker, read doubled up, cabling through results in separation of the old and the new.
 

philb2

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You can't just use the existing coax to pull the cat6 through?
Probably not. Whjen I installed the existing coax (back around 1990) I didn't give any thoughts to "pull cable" upgrades. Because of the specifics of the 2nd floor remodel design and my availble path to the first floor and crawl space, the second floor cables took a very roundabout path and were much longer than direct runs to the crawl space.
 

philb2

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Very seldom is any cabling or wiring free floating inside walls. It is usually stapled every few feet. Even when it is free floating the holes in studs are usually such that pulling thicker, read doubled up, cabling through results in separation of the old and the new.
Since I put in the cable myself, I probably didn't stable the cables. I did staple (staple nails, using a hammer, btw) the grounded Romex I installed.
 

zandor

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You put it in, so you'd know if you could re-pull it. One of the few things I like about our whacky local building code (Chicago) is electrical has to be in conduit in new construction with a few exceptions. I had my 1948 house re-pulled & only ended up with a couple holes in the plaster.

MoCA uses frequencies over 1GHz. I forget the exact range, but it's like 1100-1600Mhz or something like that. A lot of splitters top out at 1GHz, so you might have to replace them. Splitters from 1990 will probably have to go.

MoCA can go as fast as 2.5Gb. They could probably get it up to 10+ since DOCSIS 3.1 can theoretically do 10, but the best that's available is 2.5. MoCA works best on point to point runs. If all the cable meets up somewhere you might want to just use multiple MoCA adapters & a switch in that location. Depending on the layout of your house and where you need speed I bet you'd be best off with a mix of MoCA and WiFi.

If you have cable TV service and need to share coax with TV be sure you install a MoCA PoE (point of entry) filter where the cable comes in. Otherwise your neighbors may be able to get on your MoCA network... likely unintentionally. You might also end up with your devices on a neighbor's internet service. A lot of all-in-one cable modem/WiFi/router units support MoCA. DHCP is a race. Whichever DHCP server responds first is the one the client uses, so it's possible your stuff or your neighbors stuff could end up on each other's networks. PoE filters are cheap. You can get them on Amazon for <$10.
 

philb2

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You put it in, so you'd know if you could re-pull it. One of the few things I like about our whacky local building code (Chicago) is electrical has to be in conduit in new construction with a few exceptions. I had my 1948 house re-pulled & only ended up with a couple holes in the plaster.

MoCA uses frequencies over 1GHz. I forget the exact range, but it's like 1100-1600Mhz or something like that. A lot of splitters top out at 1GHz, so you might have to replace them. Splitters from 1990 will probably have to go.

MoCA can go as fast as 2.5Gb. They could probably get it up to 10+ since DOCSIS 3.1 can theoretically do 10, but the best that's available is 2.5. MoCA works best on point to point runs. If all the cable meets up somewhere you might want to just use multiple MoCA adapters & a switch in that location. Depending on the layout of your house and where you need speed I bet you'd be best off with a mix of MoCA and WiFi.

If you have cable TV service and need to share coax with TV be sure you install a MoCA PoE (point of entry) filter where the cable comes in. Otherwise your neighbors may be able to get on your MoCA network... likely unintentionally. You might also end up with your devices on a neighbor's internet service. A lot of all-in-one cable modem/WiFi/router units support MoCA. DHCP is a race. Whichever DHCP server responds first is the one the client uses, so it's possible your stuff or your neighbors stuff could end up on each other's networks. PoE filters are cheap. You can get them on Amazon for <$10.
zandor
I really appreciate all the good info in this post. Good on you. :)
 

philb2

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You put it in, so you'd know if you could re-pull it. One of the few things I like about our whacky local building code (Chicago) is electrical has to be in conduit in new construction with a few exceptions. I had my 1948 house re-pulled & only ended up with a couple holes in the plaster.

MoCA uses frequencies over 1GHz. I forget the exact range, but it's like 1100-1600Mhz or something like that. A lot of splitters top out at 1GHz, so you might have to replace them. Splitters from 1990 will probably have to go.

MoCA can go as fast as 2.5Gb. They could probably get it up to 10+ since DOCSIS 3.1 can theoretically do 10, but the best that's available is 2.5. MoCA works best on point to point runs. If all the cable meets up somewhere you might want to just use multiple MoCA adapters & a switch in that location. Depending on the layout of your house and where you need speed I bet you'd be best off with a mix of MoCA and WiFi.

If you have cable TV service and need to share coax with TV be sure you install a MoCA PoE (point of entry) filter where the cable comes in. Otherwise your neighbors may be able to get on your MoCA network... likely unintentionally. You might also end up with your devices on a neighbor's internet service. A lot of all-in-one cable modem/WiFi/router units support MoCA. DHCP is a race. Whichever DHCP server responds first is the one the client uses, so it's possible your stuff or your neighbors stuff could end up on each other's networks. PoE filters are cheap. You can get them on Amazon for <$10.
zandor and all the "gurus" in this forum.

I've been shopping on Amazon for MoCA 2.5, including a POE filter. I looked at a whole bunch of different POE filters. One of the reviews, don't ask me to try to go back and get the link, the guy said that the product specs were wrong. He said that this NOT filter did NOT block MoCA 2.5. So what is the upper frequency for 2.5 blocking? 1525? 1675?

Just out of curiosity, how would I know if my MoCA network was "leaking" into my neighbors' houses.

What about this comment for this product: https://www.amazon.com/Antronix-Filter-GLF-1002-Coaxial-Networking/dp/B01EXRMIIC#customerReviews Is there a spec to look for here?

UPDATE: This is the wrong adaptor for internet use. It is for TV only and will block the broadband cable signal. Comcast had to replace this product with a different filter. The description is misleading.
 

BlueLineSwinger

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zandor and all the "gurus" in this forum.

I've been shopping on Amazon for MoCA 2.5, including a POE filter. I looked at a whole bunch of different POE filters. One of the reviews, don't ask me to try to go back and get the link, the guy said that the product specs were wrong. He said that this NOT filter did NOT block MoCA 2.5. So what is the upper frequency for 2.5 blocking? 1525? 1675?

Just out of curiosity, how would I know if my MoCA network was "leaking" into my neighbors' houses.

What about this comment for this product: https://www.amazon.com/Antronix-Filter-GLF-1002-Coaxial-Networking/dp/B01EXRMIIC#customerReviews Is there a spec to look for here?

UPDATE: This is the wrong adaptor for internet use. It is for TV only and will block the broadband cable signal. Comcast had to replace this product with a different filter. The description is misleading.

I picked up this MOCA filter (no idea if its claim of "Tivo authorized" is legit) a few years ago and AFAICT it works perfectly well. Per the Wikipedia page, the highest channel used is centered at 1.5 GHz, and probably falls off short of 1.6 GHz.

I suppose you could crudely test a filter by simply placing it in front of one MOCA adapter and see if it connects with any others you have.
 

philb2

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I picked up this MOCA filter (no idea if its claim of "Tivo authorized" is legit) a few years ago and AFAICT it works perfectly well. Per the Wikipedia page, the highest channel used is centered at 1.5 GHz, and probably falls off short of 1.6 GHz.

I suppose you could crudely test a filter by simply placing it in front of one MOCA adapter and see if it connects with any others you have.

BlueLineSwinger

You based in Chicago? Near the L line that goes to O'Hare?
 
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scrappymouse

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Nope, ~2k miles west, near the BART line that goes to OAK and SFO.
If you haven't checked them out, I'd suggest Aunty Aprils a really good chicken and waffle place in SF, personally I think they are better than Roscoe's, but last time I went was before the pandemic really hoping they survived
 
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