PS5/XBOX X vs 3080Ti/Big Navi

noko

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You know you can hook up your PC to a TV...right? It's the same damn connector.
I play many, many games on my living room 55inch 4k TV, and my PC isn't even in the same room.
(Stream through Shield TV and 1GB ethernet)
Anything with an HDMI output "naturally" has this option and i'm not aware of any gaming GPU's that doesn't have at least 1 HDMI port.
Seriously? I must not have been too clear on this. Of course you can hook up your full tower, 2080Ti, water cooled case in the middle of your living room, keyboard, mouse and XBox controller or maybe a Steam controller with some USB cables for that Corsair mechanical Keyboard, unless you find a good wireless gaming keyboard that will work 3m+ away and deal with Windows 10 on your TV set magnifying the icons and text so that you can even read them. Then make sure all the drivers and updates are constantly being updated. Besides I do have a HTPC hooked up to my TV set and know the ups and downs to this sort of configuration. I use a Wifi Logitech media keyboard and track pad -> useless for gaming (Steam controller and/or XBox 360 controller) but with Win 10 I need to have that damn keyboard to work with the OS effectively.

Yes you can string cables but you fast approach limits with cable lengths with 4K, HDR and 120hz VRR TVs besides the holes you may have to do. The Shield??? Not too familiar with that, will that pass 120hz HDR, VRR or just 60hz HDR to the TV? And not degrade it?

Ethernet? -> Not only lag but how well does that work with 4K HDR 60hz+. People do stream but normally 1080p and not 4K unless things have changed.

Yes I could rebuild my HTPC, it has a 1700x with a Radeon Vega FE (for now) but most likely would have to spend more money then just buying a Console with better quality, unique games and less hassles. Now in reality my HTPC is virtually free so to speak -> It has pass down parts, I am a good recycler. It will get either the 1080 Ti or 5700 XT (most likely due to supporting FreeSync via HDMI 2.0B) sometime in the future which are not as fast as the next gen Consoles nor as capable, without HDMI 2.1 they will be limited on top end and even middle end TVs next year and following. Even a 2080 Ti would be limited due to not having HDMI 2.1.
 
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drutman

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Why are people so emotionally involved with this? The pricing on high end gaming cards are ridiculous! No one is going to remove your PC if the consoles are successful, it will only force the PC manufacturers to be more competitive.

When I show my customers the quote for a 4K 60 FPS rig they say hell no most of the time unless they are very financially well off.
 

TheSlySyl

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The shield passes through 4k60 hdr with zero input lag or any issues.
My living room TV doesn't do real 120hz and literally no console or anything other than PC can support 120hz so I'm not sure where that stipulation comes from.

Likewise I literally only need a single xbox one controller to get 99% of the games I want to play on my TV working. I don't play FPS in the living room for same reason I haven't played FPS with a controller for decades. I still have my m/k setup and 165hz monitor for that. With the same hardware, in the office, that's always up to date with drivers and such.... Because that's just how PCs work.

And I've done all this without a single extra cable. My network is hardwired already. 🤷‍♂️

I literally just have to open the SteamLink app on my shield side of things and within seconds I have access to 100% of my steam titles with the complete hardware of my gaming desktop 3 rooms away. 4k60fps, surround sound, all of it.
 
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TheSlySyl

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It has pass down parts, I am a good recycler. It will get either the 1080 Ti or 5700 XT (most likely due to supporting FreeSync via HDMI 2.0B) sometime in the future which are not as fast as the next gen Consoles nor as capable, without HDMI 2.1 they will be limited on top end and even middle end TVs next year and following. Even a 2080 Ti would be limited due to not having HDMI 2.1.
Or, if you're waiting for the next console, and this might be a shocker.
Maybe, maybe you could wait for the next videocard? The one that is absolutely gonna have HDMI 2.1? That's likely gonna release BEFORE the next console release?
 

RamonGTP

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Seriously? I must not have been too clear on this. Of course you can hook up your full tower, 2080Ti, water cooled case in the middle of your living room, keyboard, mouse and XBox controller or maybe a Steam controller with some USB cables for that Corsair mechanical Keyboard, unless you find a good wireless gaming keyboard that will work 3m+ away and deal with Windows 10 on your TV set magnifying the icons and text so that you can even read them. Then make sure all the drivers and updates are constantly being updated. Besides I do have a HTPC hooked up to my TV set and know the ups and downs to this sort of configuration. I use a Wifi Logitech media keyboard and track pad -> useless for gaming (Steam controller and/or XBox 360 controller) but with Win 10 I need to have that damn keyboard to work with the OS effectively.

Yes you can string cables but you fast approach limits with cable lengths with 4K, HDR and 120hz VRR TVs besides the holes you may have to do. The Shield??? Not too familiar with that, will that pass 120hz HDR, VRR or just 60hz HDR to the TV? And not degrade it?

Ethernet? -> Not only lag but how well does that work with 4K HDR 60hz+. People do stream but normally 1080p and not 4K unless things have changed.

Yes I could rebuild my HTPC, it has a 1700x with a Radeon Vega FE (for now) but most likely would have to spend more money then just buying a Console with better quality, unique games and less hassles. Now in reality my HTPC is virtually free so to speak -> It has pass down parts, I am a good recycler. It will get either the 1080 Ti or 5700 XT (most likely due to supporting FreeSync via HDMI 2.0B) sometime in the future which are not as fast as the next gen Consoles nor as capable, without HDMI 2.1 they will be limited on top end and even middle end TVs next year and following. Even a 2080 Ti would be limited due to not having HDMI 2.1.
If I want to use it as a console, I can buy a small wireless keybaord with integrated touch pad. All I would need to use it for is logging in and lauching whatever game I want to play. From there I can use a wireless xbox controller just as easily on my PC.

There are also case options that aren't full tower cases. In fact you can cram quite a bit of power in a small package.

Have you ever built a computer? I can't help but feel there's tons of technologies you aren't familiar with based on your last two posts.

Beyond that, for me personally, my PC is literally right next to my TV. The HDMI cable is already there. It would be a simple matter of switching inputs. No draggign of anything, no putting my tower where it doens't belong... All "natural" setup.
 
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noko

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If I want to use it as a console, I can buy a small wireless keybaord with integrated touch pad. All I would need to use it for is logging in and lauching whatever game I want to play. From there I can use a wireless xbox controller just as easily on my PC.

There are also case options that aren't full tower cases. In fact you can cram quite a bit of power in a small package.

Have you ever built a computer? I can't help but feel there's tons of technologies you aren't familiar with based on your last two posts.

Beyond that, for me personally, my PC is literally right next to my TV. The HDMI cable is already there. It would be a simple matter of switching inputs. No draggign of anything, no putting my tower where it doens't belong... All "natural" setup.
Troll much? lol. Did you even read, have HTPC, if you know what that is? My HTPC case can even fit an ATX motherboard. Building a PC is not the issue, value for the money with next gen console on your very capable TV compared to an equivalent PC is. The next gen consoles will have capabilities that exceed for example a 2080 Ti in having HDMI 2.1, faster I/O than any current PC has. Sure if one is stuck on PC only for the living room TV go for it.

In other words what you get for the $ with next gen consoles will probably be miles ahead of PC's you can build for a good period of time.
 

Sycraft

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Another aspect with Consoles is they naturally have better panel options to game on and work together in a non-intrusive way. The quality of some of the OLED panels especially having HDMI 2.1 and VRR can make a better gaming experience then the best of the best PC monitors. The whole eco-system for gaming factors in. For the price of a 2080 Ti or 3080Ti you can buy a rather nice OLED TV panel alone. Anyways if AMD and Nvidia price very high their next generation GPU's, I would think droves of buyers will go straight to Consoles this holiday season skipping a new PC or build.
Sadly I feel like a lot of OLED's speed advantage is lost on consoles since most of their titles target 30fps. We'll see if that improves with the new generation but it seems every generation brings a bunch more capable hardware... and it gets used for higher rez and more eye candy, not 60fps, much less 120.
 

Sycraft

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You could apply same logic to basically any hardware with OS.
It's a PC. Phones are PCs as well. Pocket PCs. It doesn't have to be a x86 system.
Console games are VERY optimized even if developers don't spend much time optimizing them. It's because you have ONE console to make sure the game runs well on. You don't have 80 different video cards/processors and their combination you have to keep in mind. You make it work on the console you have and it will work well on every other system.
I don't think you understand how optimization works. If you are talking basic code optimization, well guess what, that is done on all platforms, for all targets. You tell the compiler to optimize its code (which is turned on by default) and it does. It produces optimized machine code, and it does so for multiple paths. The program checks to see what kind of CPU it is running on and uses the appropriate code path. When you run a modern game and it fires up AVX on your CPU? That's optimized code. The compiler was able to generate vector optimizations that use the AVX instructions. However as stated, all that crap is cross platform these days for consoles, they run the same CPUs as desktops. So even if the developers want to take the time to write hand-optimized assembly... well that will be as valid for desktop Zen 2 CPUs as for console Zen 2 CPUs (and really for any AVX2 CPU).

Now on a console, being a fixed platform, you can go further. You can design your title to fully take advantage of the hardware that's there. You can make sure the way it is written, from the ground up, is designed to be optimal for that hardware and that you make the tradeoff necessary to fully utilize all of it all the time. Ya that? That's rarely done. For cross-platform titles, it is time they aren't willing to spend because they'd have to do it for each platform. No thanks, they'll just make sure what they write runs on everything. This is even more true what with using general purpose engines these days. Rare is the game with an engine designed for it, rather developers grab and off the shelf engine like Unity, Unreal Engine, Frostbite, etc and use that. Those run on all platform, including Phones, and thus are not highly optimized for any one platform.

So that leaves exclusives, titles designed just for the console. These do sometimes see some specific console optimization. Forza 4 is one such example, they worked really hard to make sure it could do 60fps (at 1080) locked in all cases, tuning the game carefully to balance use of the CPU and GPU and so on. But even then, many don't bother because it is just not worth the additional development time. That takes work, and work from some fairly skilled coders. If the game runs "good enough" then that is often what you get, even for an exclusive. Oh and for all the optimization the Forza team did... the PC still crushes it. Forza 4 on the PC runs waaaay faster than an Xbox 1 X.
 

noko

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I don't think you understand how optimization works. If you are talking basic code optimization, well guess what, that is done on all platforms, for all targets. You tell the compiler to optimize its code (which is turned on by default) and it does. It produces optimized machine code, and it does so for multiple paths. The program checks to see what kind of CPU it is running on and uses the appropriate code path. When you run a modern game and it fires up AVX on your CPU? That's optimized code. The compiler was able to generate vector optimizations that use the AVX instructions. However as stated, all that crap is cross platform these days for consoles, they run the same CPUs as desktops. So even if the developers want to take the time to write hand-optimized assembly... well that will be as valid for desktop Zen 2 CPUs as for console Zen 2 CPUs (and really for any AVX2 CPU).

Now on a console, being a fixed platform, you can go further. You can design your title to fully take advantage of the hardware that's there. You can make sure the way it is written, from the ground up, is designed to be optimal for that hardware and that you make the tradeoff necessary to fully utilize all of it all the time. Ya that? That's rarely done. For cross-platform titles, it is time they aren't willing to spend because they'd have to do it for each platform. No thanks, they'll just make sure what they write runs on everything. This is even more true what with using general purpose engines these days. Rare is the game with an engine designed for it, rather developers grab and off the shelf engine like Unity, Unreal Engine, Frostbite, etc and use that. Those run on all platform, including Phones, and thus are not highly optimized for any one platform.

So that leaves exclusives, titles designed just for the console. These do sometimes see some specific console optimization. Forza 4 is one such example, they worked really hard to make sure it could do 60fps (at 1080) locked in all cases, tuning the game carefully to balance use of the CPU and GPU and so on. But even then, many don't bother because it is just not worth the additional development time. That takes work, and work from some fairly skilled coders. If the game runs "good enough" then that is often what you get, even for an exclusive. Oh and for all the optimization the Forza team did... the PC still crushes it. Forza 4 on the PC runs waaaay faster than an Xbox 1 X.
For PS5 you will probably get several very optimized exclusives, very hardware optimized hopefully. As for XBox Series X?

The previous consoles as in PS 4 versions and XBox 1 versions were highly CPU limited which would limit FPS due to draw calls plus yes the GPU probably would limit it as well if the CPU could keep up. This next generation should be different, will it target 120fps at 1440p or 1080p? I do not know but I would expect some options there. They should both support HDMI VRR or adaptive sync for HDMI 2.1 monitors/TVs which will be very nice.
 

Gideon

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At the current price of video cards I expect this new generation of consoles to sell well once the economy recovers from this virus. I expect each console will have some special optimizations to help it perform better then what it says on paper.
 
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noko

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Sadly I feel like a lot of OLED's speed advantage is lost on consoles since most of their titles target 30fps. We'll see if that improves with the new generation but it seems every generation brings a bunch more capable hardware... and it gets used for higher rez and more eye candy, not 60fps, much less 120.
I would expect some high fps games such as racing games to be available maybe at a lower resolution upsized to 4k or if the monitor or TV supports lower resolutions. 4K HDR 120 FPS will be a very tall order, except for a few games even for next generation GPUs. Now if the game supports a proprietary standard like DLSS that should help a lot in using the full refresh rate for 4K HDR and beyond for monitors/TVs.

This could be a very interesting year, for me it will have to be both a Monitor or TV plus viable graphics card. As for a console, I am luke warm with that.
 

Epos7

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Seriously? I must not have been too clear on this. Of course you can hook up your full tower, 2080Ti, water cooled case in the middle of your living room, keyboard, mouse and XBox controller or maybe a Steam controller with some USB cables for that Corsair mechanical Keyboard, unless you find a good wireless gaming keyboard that will work 3m+ away and deal with Windows 10 on your TV set magnifying the icons and text so that you can even read them.
I have a 30' HDMI cable running from my PC to my TV. I use Controller Companion so all I need to do is go plop down on the couch and turn my TV on. No keyboard, mouse, or USB cables necessary.

Whatever Windows picked as the default scaling option for my TV works fine. I don't have any issues seeing the text on screen.
 

noko

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I have a 30' HDMI cable running from my PC to my TV. I use Controller Companion so all I need to do is go plop down on the couch and turn my TV on. No keyboard, mouse, or USB cables necessary.

Whatever Windows picked as the default scaling option for my TV works fine. I don't have any issues seeing the text on screen.
What resolution are you using? HDR? Refresh rate?

My Steam Controller looks like it does what Controller Companion does, still end up using the wireless keyboard at times. Does look like some quality 30 ft HDMI cables can work at 4K HDR, basically try them, if they work they work, if not buy another one and try. So does look to be a viable option currently, how that will work with HDMI 2.1 standard, VRR and higher refresh rate is another thing.
 
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noko

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4K 60Hz. I haven't tried an HDR game yet but HDR appears to work on the desktop.
Very cool and a cheaper option as well. My gaming PC is over 40 feet away so probably won't work, I use the HTPC for casual laid back older games anyways. Will most likely late this year or next get a high end, probably OLED 4K with HDMI 2.1.
 

Sycraft

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For PS5 you will probably get several very optimized exclusives, very hardware optimized hopefully. As for XBox Series X?

The previous consoles as in PS 4 versions and XBox 1 versions were highly CPU limited which would limit FPS due to draw calls plus yes the GPU probably would limit it as well if the CPU could keep up. This next generation should be different, will it target 120fps at 1440p or 1080p? I do not know but I would expect some options there. They should both support HDMI VRR or adaptive sync for HDMI 2.1 monitors/TVs which will be very nice.
We can hope... but I dunno. There's a lot of console titles that seem to have the "just cap it at 30 and call it good" attitude, even though the XOX supports VRR. The number of games that have an uncapped option is very small. Same deal with resolution options. A few titles will let you choose "performance" or "quality" which usually means 1080 or "DSR somewhere under 4k" but not many.

So maybe devs will get better next generation. It would be nice to see some real options like you get on a PC. Let people choose the tradeoff they'd like between quality and performance. Heck, give more options than just a couple modes, put in advanced controls for those that wish... but it just doesn't seem to be how devs like to do it on consoles.
 
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Epos7

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Very cool and a cheaper option as well. My gaming PC is over 40 feet away so probably won't work, I use the HTPC for casual laid back older games anyways. Will most likely late this year or next get a high end, probably OLED 4K with HDMI 2.1.
Yeah, unfortunately 30' is the upper limit for cables that can support 4K/60.

Gaming on an OLED is pretty fantastic. I bought one generation before the HDMI 2.1 models were available but that would be even better.

If anyone is interested, this is the cable I'm using:

https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15430
 
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RamonGTP

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Troll much? lol. Did you even read, have HTPC, if you know what that is? My HTPC case can even fit an ATX motherboard. Building a PC is not the issue, value for the money with next gen console on your very capable TV compared to an equivalent PC is. The next gen consoles will have capabilities that exceed for example a 2080 Ti in having HDMI 2.1, faster I/O than any current PC has. Sure if one is stuck on PC only for the living room TV go for it.

In other words what you get for the $ with next gen consoles will probably be miles ahead of PC's you can build for a good period of time.
Value has always been on the side of the console. Thanks for letting everyone know what’s been known for the last 30 years.
 

Gideon

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Value has always been on the side of the console. Thanks for letting everyone know what’s been known for the last 30 years.
Well to be honest it's value seems to be growing since were comparing it to a 2080Ti and thats a 1200 dollar card by itself. The price to performance ratio is getting out of hand on the PC side, so yeah I think it's important to bring that fact up.
 

Epos7

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Well to be honest it's value seems to be growing since were comparing it to a 2080Ti and thats a 1200 dollar card by itself. The price to performance ratio is getting out of hand on the PC side, so yeah I think it's important to bring that fact up.
Yup. Used to be that the top range graphics cards were priced about the same as a new console at launch. Now those top end cards are 2-3x the price of a console. Not to mention the prices of consoles have been dropping faster. The Xbox One X launched in November '17 @ $500, and now can be had for $250.
 
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Sycraft

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Yeah, unfortunately 30' is the upper limit for cables that can support 4K/60.
Nah, just go fiber. It is not expensive these days. Ruipro and Ugreen make good fiber optic HDMI cables that will do 4k60 to over 100 feet. They also supposedly make 8k variants these days, but I'd wait until there is more validation on the market before getting one. It isn't hard though, they just use the same tech as ethernet. Quad channel fiberoptic ethernet is real common, 40g and 100g ethernet are done over 4 (well 8, 4 in each direction) fiber links bonded together. The HDMI cables use the same basic tech, 1 laser for each data lane. Ends up not being that expensive as the lasers needed are not that high speed compared to ethernet. The raw speed of lasers for 100g ethernet are 28gbps, you only need 12gbps raw each for HDMI 2.1.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Well to be honest it's value seems to be growing since were comparing it to a 2080Ti and thats a 1200 dollar card by itself. The price to performance ratio is getting out of hand on the PC side, so yeah I think it's important to bring that fact up.
We're actually comparing to a 3080Ti, which like the upcoming consoles, is not yet available for sale.

When they all release later this year, that's the best value that consoles will represent vs. a PC, and it goes downhill from there.

[every time]
 

RamonGTP

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Well to be honest it's value seems to be growing since were comparing it to a 2080Ti and thats a 1200 dollar card by itself. The price to performance ratio is getting out of hand on the PC side, so yeah I think it's important to bring that fact up.
But you don't need a 2080Ti. The next gen consoles are still a ways away from release and their rumored performance (which is always overstated) is not at 2080Ti levels. When they do come out, you're probably looking at a very best case scenario of a 3070 equivalent.
 

Gideon

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We're actually comparing to a 3080Ti, which like the upcoming consoles, is not yet available for sale.

When they all release later this year, that's the best value that consoles will represent vs. a PC, and it goes downhill from there.

[every time]
I dont think the 3080Ti is going down in costs from where the 2080Ti is at, plus many here always say consoles are a generation behind in power when they launch. Reality is the value of the consoles is better these days then it has been in the past.
 
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J3RK

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My personal policy is PC+Nintendo. That’s the widest range of gameplay. If I was feeling saucy though, and wanted another console for some reason, I’d probably lean PS for the slightly different game lineup.

PC+N though gets me anything I could possibly want to play. Plus a MiSTer setup for classics.
 

RamonGTP

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My personal policy is PC+Nintendo. That’s the widest range of gameplay. If I was feeling saucy though, and wanted another console for some reason, I’d probably lean PS for the slightly different game lineup.

PC+N though gets me anything I could possibly want to play. Plus a MiSTer setup for classics.
I agree with this. I've had ever PS since the original mainly because I was a big fan of Gran Turismo, but the last couple of iterations I felt were very boring and the development time for that game is so ridiculously long now, that you basically get one iteration per console generation. This time around I'll probably skip it.
 
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Epos7

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Nah, just go fiber. It is not expensive these days. Ruipro and Ugreen make good fiber optic HDMI cables that will do 4k60 to over 100 feet. They also supposedly make 8k variants these days, but I'd wait until there is more validation on the market before getting one. It isn't hard though, they just use the same tech as ethernet. Quad channel fiberoptic ethernet is real common, 40g and 100g ethernet are done over 4 (well 8, 4 in each direction) fiber links bonded together. The HDMI cables use the same basic tech, 1 laser for each data lane. Ends up not being that expensive as the lasers needed are not that high speed compared to ethernet. The raw speed of lasers for 100g ethernet are 28gbps, you only need 12gbps raw each for HDMI 2.1.
Cool! I was lucky in that a 30' cable barely reached my TV, but it's nice to know there are options if a longer length is needed.
 
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Epos7

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But you don't need a 2080Ti. The next gen consoles are still a ways away from release and their rumored performance (which is always overstated) is not at 2080Ti levels. When they do come out, you're probably looking at a very best case scenario of a 3070 equivalent.
I think that's probably accurate, but what is a 3070 going to cost? If they follow the 20xx series pricing model it will be a $500 card, then you need the rest of the components.

Don't get me wrong, I love my gaming PC, but I don't think a value proposition for PC gaming exists when compared to consoles. Maybe if you're building something from used parts...
 
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IdiotInCharge

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I dont think the 3080Ti is going down in costs from where the 2080Ti is at, plus many here always say consoles are a generation behind in power when they launch. Reality is the value of the consoles is better these days then it has been in the past.
'These days'

The value gap narrows when consoles release, and then it widens again as newer PC hardware is released.

All of these things have happened before, and all of these things will happen again.
 

RamonGTP

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I think that's probably accurate, but what is a 3070 going to cost? If they follow the 20xx series pricing model it will be a $500 card, then you need the rest of the components.

Don't get me wrong, I love my gaming PC, but I don't think a value proposition for PC gaming exists when compared to consoles. Maybe if you're building something from used parts...
I'm not arguing that the value component is on the PC's side if all you're concerned with is gaming. Just that comparing it to a $1200 GPU is very inaccurate and makes it sound worse than it actually is.

This started by someone saying consoles have a natural benefit of being able to connect to TV's. Then it was stated that computers can be connected to TV's just as easily. Then the guy said you have to lug a keyboard and mouse around and have wires all over the place, and made it sound like you needed to tote several gallons of water in an open container around the living room to keep it cool. Then he was made aware of wireless game pats, keyboards and mice, to which the goal post again shifted to a value proposition.

And if you're doing more than just gaming, which most of us are doing with our gaming PC's, there is no value argument since those other tasks cannot be done at all on the console.
 

Gideon

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'These days'

The value gap narrows when consoles release, and then it widens again as newer PC hardware is released.

All of these things have happened before, and all of these things will happen again.
There is always something coming that is better then what is on the market at the release. You can sit and wait for better forever, yet often I see the argument is you can enjoy things today rather then wait for tomorrow. Releases of new hardware are slowing by quite a bit and the jumps in performance are getting smaller, but the price jumps are getting bigger. The 2080Ti is not a ton better then the 1080Ti that released in March of 2017, especially when you consider the increase in cost. Honestly it seems like some have 0 interest in consoles but just want to argue with those that have interest in them. Guess will see how it shakes out when people can get their hands on either one.
 

Epos7

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I'm not arguing that the value component is on the PC's side if all you're concerned with is gaming. Just that comparing it to a $1200 GPU is very inaccurate and makes it sound worse than it actually is.

This started by someone saying consoles have a natural benefit of being able to connect to TV's. Then it was stated that computers can be connected to TV's just as easily. Then the guy said you have to lug a keyboard and mouse around and have wires all over the place, and made it sound like you needed to tote several gallons of water in an open container around the living room to keep it cool. Then he was made aware of wireless game pats, keyboards and mice, to which the goal post again shifted to a value proposition.

And if you're doing more than just gaming, which most of us are doing with our gaming PC's, there is no value argument since those other tasks cannot be done at all on the console.
I agree with most of that. If you need/want a desktop for tasks other than gaming the marginal cost of being able to game on it isn't so bad. Likewise, consoles can take the place of a Blu-Ray player and Roku type device.

I'm really interested to see what these new consoles do to graphics card prices. I tend to think they won't budge much, but at least there is some incentive to lower pricing on the way.
 

RamonGTP

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
8,090
Consoles never did much to GPU pricing in the past, I don't think they'll do much moving forward either. What may have an effect is the current world economy. With so many people out of jobs right now, nVidia may NEED to lower prices to move the volume they typically do. But who knows, it's nVidia. They may raise the price to make up for the lost revenue from fewer sales.
 

IdiotInCharge

NVIDIA SHILL
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
14,712
The 2080Ti is not a ton better then the 1080Ti that released in March of 2017, especially when you consider the increase in cost.
You're right, but this generation is also a bit of an exception: AMD went to the new node with old tech, and Nvidia stayed on the old node and stretched it to new tech.

Neither resulted in significant performance jumps as seen in the previous generation.

I'll give you a coin flip as to whether those performance jumps will continue ;)
 

Stoly

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
6,714
The shield passes through 4k60 hdr with zero input lag or any issues.
My living room TV doesn't do real 120hz and literally no console or anything other than PC can support 120hz so I'm not sure where that stipulation comes from.

Likewise I literally only need a single xbox one controller to get 99% of the games I want to play on my TV working. I don't play FPS in the living room for same reason I haven't played FPS with a controller for decades. I still have my m/k setup and 165hz monitor for that. With the same hardware, in the office, that's always up to date with drivers and such.... Because that's just how PCs work.

And I've done all this without a single extra cable. My network is hardwired already. 🤷‍♂️

I literally just have to open the SteamLink app on my shield side of things and within seconds I have access to 100% of my steam titles with the complete hardware of my gaming desktop 3 rooms away. 4k60fps, surround sound, all of it.
Strictly speaking the ShieldTV does introduce input lag, but I don't really notice it. My kid and I use it to game in his room, but my gaming PC is in my room connected to a 50" 4K TV. We game on both. But I like gaming on the desktop PC if only because of the bigger TV
 
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noko

Supreme [H]ardness
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I'm not arguing that the value component is on the PC's side if all you're concerned with is gaming. Just that comparing it to a $1200 GPU is very inaccurate and makes it sound worse than it actually is.

This started by someone saying consoles have a natural benefit of being able to connect to TV's. Then it was stated that computers can be connected to TV's just as easily. Then the guy said you have to lug a keyboard and mouse around and have wires all over the place, and made it sound like you needed to tote several gallons of water in an open container around the living room to keep it cool. Then he was made aware of wireless game pats, keyboards and mice, to which the goal post again shifted to a value proposition.

And if you're doing more than just gaming, which most of us are doing with our gaming PC's, there is no value argument since those other tasks cannot be done at all on the console.
You made me laugh. Well if that what you got from all of this thanks for sharing. :D
 

Sycraft

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Joined
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Messages
4,703
Cool! I was lucky in that a 30' cable barely reached my TV, but it's nice to know there are options if a longer length is needed.
Next time you need a cable, I highly recommends fiber. Even if you can get a copper cable in the appropriate length. They are much, MUCH thinner and more flexible. Used to be it was way too expensive professional grade shit that needed converters and so on but the all-in-ones these days are pretty cheap. More than a copper cable, but still like $100ish for a good brand so no real problem. They just make routing the cable so much easier.

As an aside, companies are making fiber optic DP cables now as well. I haven't tried one but they supposedly work well. Again same design: 4 lasers one for each data path, the rest of the cables are copper. Only real downside is that there's no official support/certification for fiber DP whereas fiber HDMI is in spec.
 

RamonGTP

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
8,090
Next time you need a cable, I highly recommends fiber. Even if you can get a copper cable in the appropriate length. They are much, MUCH thinner and more flexible. Used to be it was way too expensive professional grade shit that needed converters and so on but the all-in-ones these days are pretty cheap. More than a copper cable, but still like $100ish for a good brand so no real problem. They just make routing the cable so much easier.

As an aside, companies are making fiber optic DP cables now as well. I haven't tried one but they supposedly work well. Again same design: 4 lasers one for each data path, the rest of the cables are copper. Only real downside is that there's no official support/certification for fiber DP whereas fiber HDMI is in spec.
If routing and length aren't an issue, is there any other benefit to going fiber? I would think that needing to convert an electrical signal to light, then from light back to electrical would introduce at least some measure of lag.
 

twonunpackmule

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
1,525
True, but rather than Sony I'd get a next gen Switch instead as a high end PC owner. I know Sony has a few good exclusive games but 90% of their titles will be on the PC regardless just like XBox. The only unique console out there is the Switch and if NVIDIA gives it DLSS 2.0 then the next one should be amazing.
The smarter play is to go PC. Which, gives access to 90% of everything out there. Not too mention at ridiculously cheap prices. Also, legacy support limits the amount of "repurchasing" for those that get the bug to buy remasters. Overall, the initial investment for PC is greater, but over time it pans out to rather equal to just slightly higher.

Let us not talk of mid gen refreshes and what have you either. Which, just adds even more waste and money grabs.

I trust MS more with legacy and backwards support over Sony. Nintendo is just a "unique" option that it isn't really overlapping with a high end PC.

At the end of the day...you do you. I just find little value in consoles. I find I'm more about game preservation these days. I consider a console a death nail for long term game archiving. A PC release mostly gives it a chance to have a long shelf life. I'll probably get a PS5 when dirt cheap and GoW2 is released. As, that's the only exclusive I care about.

Lastly, consoles are far more interesting once they've been hacked and have custom OS's.
 

Sycraft

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Messages
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If routing and length aren't an issue, is there any other benefit to going fiber? I would think that needing to convert an electrical signal to light, then from light back to electrical would introduce at least some measure of lag.
Only real advantage would be RF immunity so if you were running a cable somewhere really noisy, but that is highly unlikely to be a problem. There is no lag, the conversion process is bit-by-bit conversion, it happens realtime, at line rate and the optical signal is literally just an optical version of the electrical signal.
 
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