PS5/XBOX X vs 3080Ti/Big Navi

Nebell

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With both consoles and new 3xxx cards shaping to become quite big and powerful, why would I choose a €1500 3080Ti (2080Ti price here in Sweden is about €1300-€1500) over say, a PS5 which costs €500?

The only reason I can think of is my Valve Index.
But that could easily sell for €700 and if there's new VR coming for PS5 it's definitely going to be cheaper.

The bad thing is I'm currently sitting on 9900k oced to 5ghz and 32gb of ram.
But I could sell that, sell my Index and my PC wheel/HOTAS.
Buy PS5, new VR when it's out and equally good laptop and not spend any money on 3080Ti.

I'm a gamer some come on Jensen & Lisa, convince me spend money on 3080Ti/Big Navi with all these new console releases!
 

jmilcher

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My question is, why not both? I have a few consoles and a very high end pc setup. It boils down to what you’re willing to spend and what you find value in. There are no hard numbers for anything you’re asking about, so idk what the point of this thread was?
 

vegeta535

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Honestly there no reason to own a Xbox if you have a decent PC. Almost all the game's will be on PC also. The PS5 should have some great exclusives. I hate this whole PC Master race shit. I enjoy both. It is not one or the other type thing. If it is a money thing then go for a console.
 

exlink

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You could sell your PC and get the new VR and equally good laptop alongside a PS5. But 2 years later when PC hardware likely significantly widens the gap again you'll be stuck with a console and laptop you'll not be able to upgrade while if you still had your PC you could just upgrade your GPU again if you so chose.

I'm getting a PS5 either way and keeping my gaming PC. To me, they are to address two separate play styles and hobbies.
 

TheSlySyl

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Due to the PS5 rumored to have backwards compatibility with the PS4, i'm likely getting a PS5 unless the rumors of PS exclusive games coming to PC actually materialize.

But yeah, the new consoles will be equivalent to a mid-range 2020 graphics card, but by the time 2021 or 2022 graphics cards come out the consoles will be left in the dust again. As is always the way.
 

Epos7

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I plan to enjoy both my PC and one of the new consoles.

I'm not convinced the new consoles will be more powerful than, say, a 2070 Super.

One thing I really enjoy about consoles is that the online modes are much better for avoiding cheaters. I'd love to play GTAV online on my PC, but I've read too many horror stories about cheaters ruining it for everyone. You don't run into that on consoles. On PC it's hit or miss. Some games do a good job keeping cheaters out, others do not.
 

Nebell

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I'm not convinced the new consoles will be more powerful than, say, a 2070 Super.
They don't need to. Console games are well optimized and next-gen will look better than games on PC 5 years from now on 5080Ti.
 
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I think you are better off choosing one console and also go PC for 2020 rather than getting both consoles. The better choice is probably the PS5 since everything on the XSX will be on the PC anyways, and who wants to give up modding ability and still have to own a trashcan midtower...

The problem for FY 2020 is lack of HDMI 2.1 ports in 2020 TVs and AVRs, a lot will only have 1 functional port until next year's models, especially if your display only has 1 EARC port. This is going to be a pain if you want both an Xbox and PS5 since it will require swapping HDMI cables, at least if you plan on streaming hi def audio. I guess if you don't care or don't have a sound system worth mentioning you can just run an optical cable and stream compressed audio.

With PC you can at least go DP if you are going to run that to a monitor, or use a non EARC port + optical for audio.
 
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Nebell

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I'm not trolling. I'm telling you guys that the future isn't as black and white.
Consoles are getting optimized ray tracing. The hardware is powerful enough to render very detailed textures.
Visually, games won't differ as much per year as they did before.
 

5150Joker

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Honestly there no reason to own a Xbox if you have a decent PC. Almost all the game's will be on PC also. The PS5 should have some great exclusives. I hate this whole PC Master race shit. I enjoy both. It is not one or the other type thing. If it is a money thing then go for a console.
True, but rather than Sony I'd get a next gen Switch instead as a high end PC owner. I know Sony has a few good exclusive games but 90% of their titles will be on the PC regardless just like XBox. The only unique console out there is the Switch and if NVIDIA gives it DLSS 2.0 then the next one should be amazing.
 

Factum

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With both consoles and new 3xxx cards shaping to become quite big and powerful, why would I choose a €1500 3080Ti (2080Ti price here in Sweden is about €1300-€1500) over say, a PS5 which costs €500?

The only reason I can think of is my Valve Index.
But that could easily sell for €700 and if there's new VR coming for PS5 it's definitely going to be cheaper.

The bad thing is I'm currently sitting on 9900k oced to 5ghz and 32gb of ram.
But I could sell that, sell my Index and my PC wheel/HOTAS.
Buy PS5, new VR when it's out and equally good laptop and not spend any money on 3080Ti.

I'm a gamer some come on Jensen & Lisa, convince me spend money on 3080Ti/Big Navi with all these new console releases!
You are not a gamer if you have to ask those kind of questions...*sigh*
The consoles are not as powerfull as you make them out to be FYI.
 

Factum

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I'm not trolling. I'm telling you guys that the future isn't as black and white.
Consoles are getting optimized ray tracing. The hardware is powerful enough to render very detailed textures.
Visually, games won't differ as much per year as they did before.
Consoles will be behind on I.Q/performance....espcially in raytracing.

We get this CRAP every bloody console release...no your $500 wannabe PC will not provide better I.Q. performance than a gamer PC...it has not since the first console-generation and this will NOT change this generation...ffs!
 

Nebell

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You are not a gamer if you have to ask those kind of questions...*sigh*
The consoles are not as powerfull as you make them out to be FYI.
PS4 released in 2013, the same year Nvidia released their 7xx cards. Visually, PS4 games are holding up today.
Yes, ported console games look better on PC today. Say, Red Dead Redemption 2.
But I want to see you run it on 780Ti in 4k, like you can do on PS4.

I love PCs and am a PC gamer (I don't own a single console), but your claims seem very biased and I can't take them seriously.
 

reaper12

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Is this your first console launch?
I'm wondering if he's trolling.
This Xbox series X launch isn't like previous launches though. For gaming there isn't going to be as clear cut choice between PC and Xbox Series X especially with GPU prices the way they are now.

Obviously for those that want the best of the best, the PC is still going to be the better choice but for the average gamer who doesn't want to spend 500+ on a GPU the new consoles are more attractive then ever before.
 

Nebell

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This Xbox series X launch isn't like previous launches though. For gaming there isn't going to be as clear cut choice between PC and Xbox Series X especially with GPU prices the way they are now.

Obviously for those that want the best of the best, the PC is still going to be the better choice but for the average gamer who doesn't want to spend 500+ on a GPU the new consoles are more attractive then ever before.
Honestly I included XBOX and AMD in my original post because I wanted to avoid people whining about me only mentioning PS4 and Nvidia.
The fact is, XBOX is useless if you're a PC gamer and AMD won't match Nvidias top tier card.
 

reaper12

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I'm not convinced the new consoles will be more powerful than, say, a 2070 Super.
Digital Foundry say that the GPU in the Xbox series X is equivalent to a 2080 Super.

And surely it's at least that. The 2080 Super is only ~20% faster than the 5700XT. The GPU in the Xbox Series X looks to be roughly 20% faster than the 5700XT.

That's discounting any architectural improvements from the move to RDNA 2.
 

doubletake

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Red Dead Redemption 2...I want to see you run it on 780Ti in 4k, like you can do on PS4.
PS4 =/= PS4 Pro, and even the PS4 Pro sure as hell doesn't run that game at UHD, so your statement is completely pointless and invalid.

If you wanted to make a more realistic comparison, compare running RDR2 on a PS4Pro, which is 2016 hardware, to something like an RX 470/480 - GTX 1060, etc, also 2016 hardware. Those GPUs can run the game at a mix of medium/high settings at 1440p and 30+FPS, which means it will look sharper and run as well or better than on PS4Pro.
 

Armenius

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Digital Foundry say that the GPU in the Xbox series X is equivalent to a 2080 Super.

And surely it's at least that. The 2080 Super is only ~20% faster than the 5700XT. The GPU in the Xbox Series X looks to be roughly 20% faster than the 5700XT.

That's discounting any architectural improvements from the move to RDNA 2.
Great, so by the time the new console comes out it will be equivalent to a 2-year old high end card. Meaning it will be equivalent to a 2020 mid-tier card as mentioned earlier in the thread.
 

RamonGTP

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They don't need to. Console games are well optimized and next-gen will look better than games on PC 5 years from now on 5080Ti.
You're a funny guy. If history tells us anything is that the consoles deliver far more hype than they do performance. Here is the reality, there's nothing magical about consoles. They simply do not have the thermal capacity to come anywhere near a high end PC. By high end I mean whatever is high end a the time of a consoles release. Their games are certainly better optimized then most PC games. Not nearly enough to best PC performance of that time, much less 5 years from now. I'm sure you already know all this though and are merely trolling. Don't take that as an attack, it's actually a compliment because the alternative is that you're not a funny guy, you're not trolling, you're just well... Clueless, to put it nicely.
 

Sycraft

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I'm not trolling. I'm telling you guys that the future isn't as black and white.
Consoles are getting optimized ray tracing. The hardware is powerful enough to render very detailed textures.
Visually, games won't differ as much per year as they did before.
Ok well you seem to not understand a few things:

1) Consoles are just PCs. No seriously, these days, they are just PCs. I mean look at them they run an AMD Zen 2 CPU, AMD Navi GPU, etc. There isn't some special magic hardware that you don't see in PCs, it is literally being sourced from one of the two big PC suppliers. Which leads to...

2) Whatever AMD puts in the consoles, they are bringing to the PC. They are not going to develop some great new GPU technology and say "Hey, this could help us win back market share form nVidia, but you know lets not do that and just keep it in the consoles." No, it is coming to the PC. This "optimized raytracing" you go on about is just hardware to do tensors fast. That's great and all, but it isn't something that nobody else has ever heard of. It is in fact what RTX cards have right now.

3) If you think devs spend lots of time optimizing for consoles, you are off your gourd. Occasionally one may, usually first party studios, but usually no. A great example I can think of since I play it is Elder Scrolls Online. It runs on Windows, OS-X, Xbox and PS4, has for 5 years. So it is nice and optimized for those consoles right? Fuck no, the game engine is heavily single threaded, even on a PC it is often limited by one main thread, with the rest of the CPU and GPU sitting idle. Well on a PC this isn't a huge deal, you can just get a really fast CPU to overwhelm it. However the consoles, particularly the base versions, have poor per-core performance being AMD 'dozer type CPUs. To make good use of them you need to have your engine heavily threaded and distributed across the 8 slow cores. Well it isn't and indeed only recently, in the last year, have they started optimizing it (on all platforms) to be more multi-threaded. Likewise a real problem it has seen is CTDs because of running out of RAM on the base model consoles. The 5ish GB of RAM that games get has been a real issue and their memory manager can run out and crash back to dashboard. Again no issue on a PC, you just overwhelm it with more memory.

There's no doubt these next gen consoles are going to be really cool, but the idea that they have some special sauce that puts them "5 years ahead" is delusional. No, the hardware companies will continue to release new stuff to the market, they like money, and PCs will continue to get faster.
 

harmattan

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It's going to be a near zero-sum game this round, at least initially. A 3080 ti will give the best experience, but will almost certainly cost >$1000. The PS5 may be a bit slower than the Xbox X, but IMO has the best exclusives. Xbox X has better integration and will be the faster console, but has fewer and the less attractive exclusives (many of which end up on PC). That said, all three will offer similar graphics experiences, at least out of the gate. Then, by 2022 a mid-range PC will bypass both consoles in graphical horsepower, and a high-range will leave them in the dust.

I'd say the best situation, for me at least, is to stick with a PC and get the console that offers the best exclusives. For me, that will yet again mean a PC and a PS5. Moreover, in my situation, a high-end PC also has advantages in my work (especially after Covid and in the future where I'll be using my home PC for work more often).
 

noko

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Pretty big jump on the upcoming consoles for CPU and I/O performance with significant graphical ability. I am not sure Developers will know how to push them at first but the great part out of this is the games will be less limited by Console CPU performance being carried over to the PC. I don't know, a whole working gaming unit with 2080 Super performance for less than $600 sounds really good in the end. Most everyone likes ability to just play games on a moment's notice with as few hassles as possible which PCs can be rather troublesome at times. So PC gamers will benefit from the XBox one X games also being Windows games, developers win as well.
 
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PS4 released in 2013, the same year Nvidia released their 7xx cards. Visually, PS4 games are holding up today.
Yes, ported console games look better on PC today. Say, Red Dead Redemption 2.
But I want to see you run it on 780Ti in 4k, like you can do on PS4.

I love PCs and am a PC gamer (I don't own a single console), but your claims seem very biased and I can't take them seriously.
I'd like to mention in many games today there's barely a difference between minimum and maximum detail settings visually despite having 2 or 3x the performance delta, because the vast majority of processing power is used for lighting effects that have fairly minimal IQ differences. Most of visual quality of a scene is limited by quality of texture assets. As long as the system has enough RAM to load the textures you are most of the way there visually. This is the reason the PS4 is holding up, not because it's power is anywhere close to a PC.

This is also why a LOT of PC games have mods where you have higher quality textures which increase visual fidelity significantly (and take nearly no performance hit), because in multiplatform titles the PC textures aren't appreciably better than what's on the console version, because it's just usually not worth the cost/effort in a multiplatform game to create unique assets for each platform.
 

noko

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I'd like to mention in many games today there's barely a difference between minimum and maximum detail settings visually despite having 2 or 3x the performance delta, because the vast majority of processing power is used for lighting effects that have fairly minimal IQ differences. Most of visual quality of a scene is limited by quality of texture assets. As long as the system has enough RAM to load the textures you are most of the way there visually. This is the reason the PS4 is holding up, not because it's power is anywhere close to a PC.

This is also why a LOT of PC games have mods where you have higher quality textures which increase visual fidelity significantly (and take nearly no performance hit), because in multiplatform titles the PC textures aren't appreciably better than what's on the console version, because it's just usually not worth the cost/effort in a multiplatform game to create unique assets for each platform.
That is very much true, some of the settings are at a points of little to no visual difference with huge impacts to performance. Shadow quality or shadow map size and softening etc. has a point where any additional size shadow map makes virtually no visual or noticeable impact but due to increase size, more calculations and memory are used to figure out pixel color lowering performance, so many settings are at that point of diminishing returns if any when used.

If you can't really tell the difference on a still, side by side image with a setting that dramatically lowers performance, you definitely won't see it while playing, it is time not to use it and enjoy the performance, a real benefit.
 

Sycraft

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I'd like to mention in many games today there's barely a difference between minimum and maximum detail settings visually despite having 2 or 3x the performance delta, because the vast majority of processing power is used for lighting effects that have fairly minimal IQ differences. Most of visual quality of a scene is limited by quality of texture assets. As long as the system has enough RAM to load the textures you are most of the way there visually. This is the reason the PS4 is holding up, not because it's power is anywhere close to a PC.

This is also why a LOT of PC games have mods where you have higher quality textures which increase visual fidelity significantly (and take nearly no performance hit), because in multiplatform titles the PC textures aren't appreciably better than what's on the console version, because it's just usually not worth the cost/effort in a multiplatform game to create unique assets for each platform.
That'll be one nice thing about the new console generation is their RAM upgrade should allow for bigger textures. As I noted in another post, the Xbone and PS4 are limited to 5GB and 5.5GB respectively after their OSes cromch up a huge amount of RAM. That really isn't a lot considering it is for code and graphics. The new ones sound like there will be at least 12GB available for games, and probably more, maybe 14GB, depending on how big their OSes end up being and how well they can page out to the SSD to free up resources. Should allow for some much larger textures to be used.
 

drutman

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Only time will tell on price and IQ. Do not discount the console crowd, they have marketing and brand loyalty, especially the under 30 crowd.
Funny when I play COD Modern Warfare on PC 98% of my opponents and team are cross console players. We use an XBox1 as a media hub, apps are shit on smart TV. Hell even my 5820K will not play 4K on Netflix whereas the Xbox does!
We build custom PCs and when our middle class clients want a gaming PC built most see the console as the best value, they all play the same, no system or WIn 10 issues that can make a game crash or not play. No HW changes or zillions of part configurations.
 
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reaper12

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Great, so by the time the new console comes out it will be equivalent to a 2-year old high end card. Meaning it will be equivalent to a 2020 mid-tier card as mentioned earlier in the thread.
I was only responding to the person who stated it wouldn't even be as powerful as the 2070 Super. And he was talking about the current 2070 Super in his post.
 
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HockeyJon

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My main reasons:

1) I like keyboard and mouse controls for the games I play.

2) No subscription required for multiplayer.

3) Steam sales.
 

Boil

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The fact is, XBOX is useless if you're a PC gamer and AMD won't match Nvidias top tier card.
You are going to have to explain your reasoning behind this bizarre statement.
Microsoft store.
I want more on the second half of that statement, about AMD not matching the top tier card from Nvidia...

Which top tier card...?

3080 Ti...?
Titan RTX II...?
Quadro RTX 9001...?!?
Full die GA100 datacenter card...?
 

noko

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Another aspect with Consoles is they naturally have better panel options to game on and work together in a non-intrusive way. The quality of some of the OLED panels especially having HDMI 2.1 and VRR can make a better gaming experience then the best of the best PC monitors. The whole eco-system for gaming factors in. For the price of a 2080 Ti or 3080Ti you can buy a rather nice OLED TV panel alone. Anyways if AMD and Nvidia price very high their next generation GPU's, I would think droves of buyers will go straight to Consoles this holiday season skipping a new PC or build.
 

TheSlySyl

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You know you can hook up your PC to a TV...right? It's the same damn connector.
I play many, many games on my living room 55inch 4k TV, and my PC isn't even in the same room.
(Stream through Shield TV and 1GB ethernet)
 

RamonGTP

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Another aspect with Consoles is they naturally have better panel options to game on and work together in a non-intrusive way. The quality of some of the OLED panels especially having HDMI 2.1 and VRR can make a better gaming experience then the best of the best PC monitors. The whole eco-system for gaming factors in. For the price of a 2080 Ti or 3080Ti you can buy a rather nice OLED TV panel alone. Anyways if AMD and Nvidia price very high their next generation GPU's, I would think droves of buyers will go straight to Consoles this holiday season skipping a new PC or build.
Anything with an HDMI output "naturally" has this option and i'm not aware of any gaming GPU's that doesn't have at least 1 HDMI port.
 

Nebell

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Ok well you seem to not understand a few things:

1) Consoles are just PCs. No seriously, these days, they are just PCs. I mean look at them they run an AMD Zen 2 CPU, AMD Navi GPU, etc. There isn't some special magic hardware that you don't see in PCs, it is literally being sourced from one of the two big PC suppliers. Which leads to...

2) Whatever AMD puts in the consoles, they are bringing to the PC. They are not going to develop some great new GPU technology and say "Hey, this could help us win back market share form nVidia, but you know lets not do that and just keep it in the consoles." No, it is coming to the PC. This "optimized raytracing" you go on about is just hardware to do tensors fast. That's great and all, but it isn't something that nobody else has ever heard of. It is in fact what RTX cards have right now.

3) If you think devs spend lots of time optimizing for consoles, you are off your gourd. Occasionally one may, usually first party studios, but usually no. A great example I can think of since I play it is Elder Scrolls Online. It runs on Windows, OS-X, Xbox and PS4, has for 5 years. So it is nice and optimized for those consoles right? Fuck no, the game engine is heavily single threaded, even on a PC it is often limited by one main thread, with the rest of the CPU and GPU sitting idle. Well on a PC this isn't a huge deal, you can just get a really fast CPU to overwhelm it. However the consoles, particularly the base versions, have poor per-core performance being AMD 'dozer type CPUs. To make good use of them you need to have your engine heavily threaded and distributed across the 8 slow cores. Well it isn't and indeed only recently, in the last year, have they started optimizing it (on all platforms) to be more multi-threaded. Likewise a real problem it has seen is CTDs because of running out of RAM on the base model consoles. The 5ish GB of RAM that games get has been a real issue and their memory manager can run out and crash back to dashboard. Again no issue on a PC, you just overwhelm it with more memory.

There's no doubt these next gen consoles are going to be really cool, but the idea that they have some special sauce that puts them "5 years ahead" is delusional. No, the hardware companies will continue to release new stuff to the market, they like money, and PCs will continue to get faster.
You could apply same logic to basically any hardware with OS.
It's a PC. Phones are PCs as well. Pocket PCs. It doesn't have to be a x86 system.
Console games are VERY optimized even if developers don't spend much time optimizing them. It's because you have ONE console to make sure the game runs well on. You don't have 80 different video cards/processors and their combination you have to keep in mind. You make it work on the console you have and it will work well on every other system.
 

Factum

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You could apply same logic to basically any hardware with OS.
It's a PC. Phones are PCs as well. Pocket PCs. It doesn't have to be a x86 system.
Console games are VERY optimized even if developers don't spend much time optimizing them. It's because you have ONE console to make sure the game runs well on. You don't have 80 different video cards/processors and their combination you have to keep in mind. You make it work on the console you have and it will work well on every other system.
Once consoles had truely custom hardware...but today the run x86 with AMD guys...he'll the new Xbox will even run a version of DX12...and they can optimize as much as they want to...not going to making the hardware magical and perform above it's "class".

The consoles will launch with a performance deficit...and it will only grow and grow with time.

Like every freaking generation of consoles...are your memory really that bad?
 
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