PS5 And Xbox Series X Scalpers Are Charging A Big Premium

deruberhanyok

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I'm actually surprised it has been such a thing without any really strong launch titles for either of them. So far the big draw appears to be... "play the same games you were playing before but at higher framerates!"

Which, to be fair, is a pretty nice selling point, but it's also a bit off that these didn't both launch with a couple of big exclusives. Most of the games announced so far are also coming to the previous console (with Xbox especially, it seems), so I don't understand the big rush to get one at all.
 

cybereality

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Probably the same reason people upgrade their PC non-stop but then play the same old games.

I'm playing the first F.E.A.R. right now, love that game. Also, on Series X you can play all older Xbox titles, that is a pretty big draw for people with collections.

For me, I gave my PS4 to a friend of mine, thinking I could get a PS5 at launch but that looks very unlikely that I'll see one at MSRP before next year.
 

Marees

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In a recent interview with the Russian news agency TASS, Sony CEO Jim Ryan discussed the stock situation for the PS5, among other things about the new console. He discussed the challenges of launching a major product like the PS5 in the middle of a pandemic:

“Of all the things that I’ve learned this year, one is that I wouldn’t plan on doing another big console launch in the midst of a global pandemic, and I wouldn’t recommend it to anybody else. It’s been difficult, it’s been challenging from the production side, not being able to get anybody into the factories in Asia”

https://www.mysmartprice.com/gear/sony-ps5-sold-no-india-launch/
 

Comixbooks

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The only PS that was fun for me was PS3 which Had Demon Souls 11 years ago same game as the PS5. I mean if you really want a PS5 buy a PS3.
 

Marees

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The BBC has a rather fascinating look at shopping bots in the wake of all this, something they say has the largest market in the sneaker industry, where new releases and instant sellouts of valuable shoes are common. Some “snipe” bots may just alert you to the moment stock goes up on a site, but more advanced bots can automatically take you all the way through checkout.

The BBC spoke to a former GameStop director who spoke about how widespread this issue is:

"At times, more than 60% of our traffic - across hundreds of millions of visitors a day - was bots or scrapers. Especially in the run-up to big launches."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...x-series-x-stock-a-nightmare/?sh=13c414e8238d
 

Raekwon

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Nobody is going to actually pay for those. That is someone fucking with them. $950-1100 seems to be the going rate on ebay. As we get closer to Christmas with desperate parents, that might increase slightly.
Locally in the Midwest the rate is about 750-800 for XSX and 900 for PS5. Cash, no transaction fees.
 

Silentbob343

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The BBC has a rather fascinating look at shopping bots in the wake of all this, something they say has the largest market in the sneaker industry, where new releases and instant sellouts of valuable shoes are common. Some “snipe” bots may just alert you to the moment stock goes up on a site, but more advanced bots can automatically take you all the way through checkout.

The BBC spoke to a former GameStop director who spoke about how widespread this issue is:



https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...x-series-x-stock-a-nightmare/?sh=13c414e8238d
The notification bots no longer get the job done. Many are moving to the checkout bots.
 

NKD

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I’m glad I have a real job. Time equals money for me. Not to mention the effort. But for someone who’s time is worth it to them to scalp, congrats.
same here. I don't have enough to scalp for myself but I did get lucky and amazon delayed the series x preorder and i happen to see a tweet and my order went through and got it on day one lol.

Then Nov 25th after striking out everytime on walmart for their PS5 launch. Wife helped me, I still struck out but wife kept trying for 20 mins and walmart actually releases stock slowly over 30 mins and she got one lol. We almost got another one for the gift we need but fricking this time we just couldn't check out. Its just pure luck if you get one.

Still looking for the second PS5 for that gift lol.
 

Red Falcon

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Scam is you paid less and are making a profit off of other people for your own personal gain.
Loser is for the making money with no work. Nothing in the world is free so you got free money for no work at all.
I like money as much as the next person but unlike you I have morals, the only idiot is you
Yeah, how dare someone try to make a profit from supply and demand, especially for the evils of personal gain. :rolleyes:
There is work involved - it's called using one's brain to taking advantage of a potential financial situation.

No one forced those individuals to buy from the scalpers, and the scalpers had something those individuals wanted, thus each profits in their own way - that isn't morality, it's economics.
It isn't up to you, or anyone else, to dictate who buys or sells good or services at what price, especially non-essential and non-medical goods and services.
 
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Marees

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jobert

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PS5, XBOX, GPU STREET PRICES: HOLIDAY 2020​

ItemRetail PriceStreet Price
PS5 (disc)$499$1,024
PS5 (digital)$399$990
Xbox Series X$499$835
Xbox Series S$299$471
Nvidia RTX 3090$1,499$2,076
Nvidia RTX 3080$699$1,227
Nvidia RTX 3070$499$819
Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti$399$675
AMD RX 6800 XT$649$1,232
AMD RX 6800$579$841


https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/6/...0-3070-3090-3060-amd-rx-6800-xt-scalpers-ebay
That's pretty insane but if people are paying those prices then it is what it is.
 

Ebernanut

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Yeah, how dare someone try to make a profit from supply and demand, especially for the evils of personal gain. :rolleyes:
There is work involved - it's called using one's brain to taking advantage of a potential financial situation.

No one forced those individuals to buy from the scalpers, and the scalpers had something those individuals wanted, thus each profits in their own way - that isn't morality, it's economics.
It isn't up to you, or anyone else, to dictate who buys or sells good or services at what price - those that do that are Socialists and Communists.

Speaking of morals, or lack-there-of, you appear have the morals of a Communist dictator, forcing other people on how they should, or should not, make money.
Why don't you just fly the hammer and sickle and be done with it? ☭
Sugarcoat it any way that you want but scalpers add nothing to the process and make it worse for everyone involved except them. Even if the people that buy from scalpers don't care about the money it usually delays their gratification*, it generates negative PR for the manufacturers for "not having any stock", online retailers spend money trying to prevent it but can't and take a PR hit, and consumers have to wait months for stock to stabilize enough that scalpers stop buying them and start returning them(creating more delays for consumers and costing retailers money).

It's not at all communist to expect people to offer some service of value in return for the money they want. Anticipating extreme demand for something and have more available to sell when the demand hits makes someone a smart and likely successful business person, finding a way to get more than your share of a scarce commodity and selling it for a large profit will make money but it's in no way the ethical equivalent of the former and doesn't require being smart(just opportunistic).

*-You could always find someone willing to sell a hot item for a few extra bucks locally before scalping got out of control, now it's double the price and only on Ebay if unless you live somewhere with a MC for GPUs especially but consoles mainly seem to be online too.
 

LukeTbk

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Sugarcoat it any way that you want but scalpers add nothing to the process and make it worse for everyone involved except them
And the richer (mixed with want it more) people that can buy for them, while otherwise if it was more randomly distributed among everyone regardless of how rich they are they would have a much smaller change to have a card/console, it is not like the alternative is that those rich/more right now scalper buyer would have been able to buy it at MSRP pricing otherwise.

it generates negative PR for the manufacturers for "not having any stock",
I think for this specific moment it would be the same, everything on sales would be sold just a bit more slowly and would still be out of stock without scalping.

What you describe is more a scenario where supply do match demand, but scalper hide stock to create scarcity, I imagine that do happen sometime, but the current situation it is more there is scarcity to start with.

And yes anti-scalping law do sound quite far from socialism/communism, I really fail to see how it socialise production of any good or service, it is anti total absolute free market and absolute right of private property (but that does not mean socialized mean of production or planned economy either, a bit like a law that say a car must have seat belt and anti-pollution exhaust break a total laissez faire free market, but isn't a social ownership of car making and the government saying make x amount of cars that y ways either).
 
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Red Falcon

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Ebernanut

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You are forgetting that there is a risk involved with scalping as well.
If suddenly there is a large stock, and the supply now matches demand, they will most likely lose their asses, so it is a gamble with no guaranteed outcomes - this is Capitalism on a personal level, and should be everyone's right.

Taking that right away is very much Communistic/Socialistic and removes their freedom, along with the buyee's potential to buy said desired product.
The problem isn't the scalpers, it's the megacorps who didn't release enough of the products, which in itself is a gamble to them, and they played the cards close to the chest this time around, not counting supply issues.

Just FYI, Corporatism is synonymous with Socialism, and has nothing to do with Capitalism.
If you don't like Capitalism, then feel free to come up with a better system, because Corporatism/Socialism and Communism are certainly not better.

Also while you are at it, kick Sony and Microsoft in the ass to release more consoles so we can actually buy them at MSRP.
Otherwise, at least we have the option (again, OPTIONAL and not forced) to potentially buy from scalpers for those of us who wish to buy said product now; taking that option away is taking away freedom and our rights, and is indeed very Communistic (aka, no freedoms or rights).
There's little to no risk since scalpers can just return any unsold stock, even with restocking fees it's generally the retailer that takes the biggest hit which is closer to communism or socialism than anything you're talking about.

I had a bunch of other stuff partly typed out but it doesn't belong here.
 

LukeTbk

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PS5, XBOX, GPU STREET PRICES: HOLIDAY 2020​

ItemRetail PriceStreet Price
PS5 (disc)$499$1,024
PS5 (digital)$399$990
Xbox Series X$499$835
Xbox Series S$299$471
Nvidia RTX 3090$1,499$2,076
Nvidia RTX 3080$699$1,227
Nvidia RTX 3070$499$819
Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti$399$675
AMD RX 6800 XT$649$1,232
AMD RX 6800$579$841


https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/6/...0-3070-3090-3060-amd-rx-6800-xt-scalpers-ebay
That nice, but the retail price for the non console items are a bit on the optimistics side, is there any 3060 TI sold at $399 or 6800xt/6800 at those price ?

Even some Zotac 3060TI are above $475 and $420-430 seem the lowest on newegg.com

6800xt seem rare under $800 (didn't saw one on newegg)

That make the gap look a bit wider than it is actually is, specially I imagine after tax. For the console too, I imagine they follow MSRP to a T.
 

LukeTbk

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You are forgetting that there is a risk involved with scalping as well.
If suddenly there is a large stock, and the supply now matches demand, they will most likely lose their asses, so it is a gamble with no guaranteed outcomes - this is Capitalism on a personal level, and should be everyone's right.
A small risk specially on console, I imagine even in December 2021 an non open box console could be sold not that far from what the scalper paid no ?

Taking that right away is very much Communistic/Socialistic and removes their freedom, along with the buyee's potential to buy said desired product.
I feel that an american misconception that can limit views that they associate's removal of freedom and rules to socialisms/communism, when most rules are way to keep capitalism alive and well.

There is obvious example or rules, laws and government helping and being a pro capitalist force like : enforcing contractual obligation
Taking Netflix and Internet provider freedom away by making a net neutrality law for example isn't necessarily a communist/socialist move that remove overall freedom even if it remove a lot of freedom to the internet service provider and the big bandwidth users, when it is giving a lot of freedom to so many more people overall and making competition easier.
A law that force a grocery store to show to the customer the price by 100 grams so it is easy for them to make comparison is pro-capitalism and helping free market well functioning, even if it remove freedom to the store, same goes for a law that force a car dealership to be clear about how much interest rate they charge in their marketing.

One way to save markets and capitalism from a populist socialist takeover in this century, is more good rules, not removing all of them, in my opinion.

A law that would limit resseling an item at more than 25% of MSRP for the 6 first month of its existence, would remove freedom to some, add some to others, but would not be a collective ownership of the mean of the production of said product, nor a planned production quota or anything of the sort, it is different than what socialism is, same goes for a rules about car seat belt, or a law that say a vaccine must be tested before entering the market. Those are all anti free market rules yes, but not socialism either.
 
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Ebernanut

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This is going into soapbox territory, so I will leave you with this:
You already went way beyond soapbox territory which is why I didn't respond to the bulk of your comment. I understand a lot more about the topics you're bringing up than you seem to think(it's rather insulting which I assume is the intent) but this is not the place for it.
 

LukeTbk

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Forcing more and more rules and laws will eventually lead to democide, and I do suggest you read this since it, and the 20th century, proved that Communism (more and more laws and government intervention) does not work.
Look at how many rules and law there is in a western country, it is absolutely incredible, and seem to work, rules that say you cannot make false advertising or the product must be safe in x ways, you car must have seatbelt and be environment conscious in Z ways is miles away from what the impact of a socialist system/absence of market destruction and usually famine lead to.

I am guessing here you are American, that something that is really important for your society to change, rules and capitalist are not some opposite at all, many rules are made and making markets by more fluid and capitalist possible, that is just a strange opposition that came up from the cold war in your culture. Capitalism is pretty much impossible without a government enforcing rules (otherwise Microsoft army could have just killed and crushed is opposition at some point), there is just a mental distinction people make with old rules and new rules a lot of the times.
 

TheBuzzer

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the sad thing about scalpers getting the launch ps5 and xboxes is they might keep it and later sell it still at a premium when someone figure out a homebrew for them.
 

Red Falcon

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the sad thing about scalpers getting the launch ps5 and xboxes is they might keep it and later sell it still at a premium when someone figure out a homebrew for them.
Now this is a good scenario where I will agree that scalping such an item will have an extremely negative impact, especially for those who would like to hold onto those early software version consoles for just such a project.
Fully agreed! (y)
 
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defaultluser

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You are forgetting that there is a risk involved with scalping as well.
If suddenly there is a large stock, and the supply now matches demand, they will most likely lose their asses, so it is a gamble with no guaranteed outcomes - this is Capitalism on a personal level, and should be everyone's right.

Not in today's Buyers Paradise


The Amazon Extended Holiday Return Policy 1.5kfor 2020 requires that most orders delivered between October 1 and December 31 be returnable through January 31, 2021.

You can bot shit in October, and then sit on it for the next FOUR MONTHS


if they mass-purchase 20 cards, all they have to do hook even half of those fools into paying double, they have more than paid for their investment !

Amazon doesn't even charge a fucking restocking fee inside that January 31th date!!

You should stop cheering on practices like these. as they turn your online marketplaces into "Hacked-daily Bitcoin Exchanges" for months at a time.
 
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Red Falcon

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Not in today's Buyers Paradise
The Amazon Extended Holiday Return Policy 1.5kfor 2020 requires that most orders delivered between October 1 and December 31 be returnable through January 31, 2021.

You can bot shit in October, and then sit on it for the next FOUR MONTHS


if they mass-purchase 20 cards, all they have to do hook even half of those fools into paying double, they have more than paid for their investment !

Amazon doesn't even charge a fucking restocking fee inside that jamuary 30th date!!
Well damn, if that's the case, that absolutely sucks.
I was not aware of that, and stand corrected about the immediate risks involved with this, or lack-there-of.

Even on the last day of the year, 2020 continues to be a dumpster fire.
 

defaultluser

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Well damn, if that's the case, that absolutely sucks.
I was not aware of that, and stand corrected about the immediate risks involved with this, or lack-there-of.

Even on the last day of the year, 2020 continues to be a dumpster fire.


There's a good reason why they do this (folks wouldn't buy expensive tech gifts on Amazon without that 60 to 90 days leeway), but it also makes it too easy for folks with the time and seed capital to effectively corner the market (if the demand is high)

Amazon doesn't care because the majority of the products are not returned.
 
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nilepez

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The issue is supply/demand. If demand wasn't dramatically higher than supply, it wouldn't happen. And TBH, I have no fucking clue why anyone is paying 3x retail for a console that, I suspect, has a limited number of games. Same goes for GPUs (unless you can make more money mining than a card costs in the next few months).
Bottom line is this shit seems to happen whenever a new console or high end GPU is released.

I seriously doubt there's a realistic way to stop it, short of flooding the market with consoles or, alternatively, MS/Sony triple the initial price and donate the excess money to charity. Average person won't get a console initially, but scalpers will have trouble making money if they start off at 3x more than MSRP.
 

staknhalo

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The issue is supply/demand. If demand wasn't dramatically higher than supply, it wouldn't happen. And TBH, I have no fucking clue why anyone is paying 3x retail for a console that, I suspect, has a limited number of games. Same goes for GPUs (unless you can make more money mining than a card costs in the next few months).
Bottom line is this shit seems to happen whenever a new console or high end GPU is released.

I seriously doubt there's a realistic way to stop it, short of flooding the market with consoles or, alternatively, MS/Sony triple the initial price and donate the excess money to charity. Average person won't get a console initially, but scalpers will have trouble making money if they start off at 3x more than MSRP.

This shit always happens but manufacturing and shipping constraints due to covid are playing a role this time unlike past times - along with work from home due to covid and people getting stimulus checks when not everyone who got one necessarily needed one (before you jump on that a vast majority did NEED them, but they are also issued to people who could be claimed as dependents but aren't so they qualify for one and so forth/other scenarios) - therefore more people trying to buy things they normally wouldn't and/or buying bigger than they normally would. Does this exacerbate the problem/amount of scalping or simply shine a spotlight on what would be considered a norm amount of it and it then becomes the scapegoat? I don't know, but I could see it both ways - being worse this time or just seeming to be worse this time.
 
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nilepez

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This shit always happens but manufacturing and shipping constraints due to covid are playing a role this time unlike past times - along with work from home due to covid and people getting stimulus checks when not everyone who got one necessarily needed one (before you jump on that a vast majority did NEED them, but they are also issued to people who could be claimed as dependents but aren't so they qualify for one and so forth/other scenarios) - therefore more people trying to buy things they normally wouldn't and/or buying bigger than they normally would. Does this exacerbate the problem/amount of scalping or simply shine a spotlight on what would be considered a norm amount of it and it then becomes the scapegoat? I don't know, but I could see it both ways - being worse this time or just seeming to be worse this time.
It's not that different from the PS3. https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...y-6-Seconds-According-to-Research-by-Terapeak
 

Marees

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Spencer reiterated that the current supply issues would probably continue “into the spring, maybe not as tight as it is now, but demand is just really high”.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...utdated-and-its-considering-a-deposit-system/

Speaking in a new interview with The Verge, the exec reiterated recent Microsoft comments that Xbox Series X/S shortages are expected to continue until April 2021, and suggested the firm could come up with a new model for pre-ordering consoles, such as putting down a deposit.

I do think this business is going through, both for us and Sony — Jim Ryan [at Sony], I have a lot of respect for him, we both have lamented how these preorders have gone and what problem are we really solving when we seem to still have as many upset customers as we have, because they can’t get our product. I do think it’s going to push us to think about new models. It could be, reserve your slot. It could be doing things more direct with the customer. Still could have the retailer fulfill the order, but just so people can have more clarity on when they can get a console. It’s something we’re working on.
 
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Nice to see they actually appear to give a shit at least when it truly affects their bottom line. Maybe the industry can right the ship before it drives away those of us with more enjoyable hobbies to spend our hard earned money on.
 

RanceJustice

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Honestly, where are scalped items likely to be actually purchased? Craigslist? Ebay? Amazon sellers? You see lots of listings for ultra high priced items, but are they actually being purchased? Especially when some areas like Ebay (not sure about Amazon where there are a bunch of pop-up "stores") charge a fee just for listing and/or take a significant cut if the item sells. Its hard to discern where actual "scalping" level sales are taking place vs just a bunch of people waiting around and hoping someone bites on their $1300 PS5

Edit: I was under the impression that when it comes to the consoles, PS5's seem to be the most in demand vs Xbox Series X / S?
 
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ND40oz

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Nice to see they actually appear to give a shit at least when it truly affects their bottom line. Maybe the industry can right the ship before it drives away those of us with more enjoyable hobbies to spend our hard earned money on.

We should have been able to go into the store on the current Xbox and order the hardware right there. It's asinine that they can sell us everything through the store but don't have a way for us to preorder a new system and ship them as they become available. I don't go to physical stores to buy anything from Microsoft, why should I have to do it to get an Xbox Series X/S?
 

nilepez

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Honestly, where are scalped items likely to be actually purchased? Craigslist? Ebay? Amazon sellers? You see lots of listings for ultra high priced items, but are they actually being purchased? Especially when some areas like Ebay (not sure about Amazon where there are a bunch of pop-up "stores") charge a fee just for listing and/or take a significant cut if the item sells. Its hard to discern where actual "scalping" level sales are taking place vs just a bunch of people waiting around and hoping someone bites on their $1300 PS5

Edit: I was under the impression that when it comes to the consoles, PS5's seem to be the most in demand vs Xbox Series X / S?
eBay doesn't charge to list items, unless you list a fuckton of them. As for do they sell, you can search for sold items. When i looked a week or so ago, it looked like they sold for a few hundred over MSRP. I didn't see any recent 1300 dollar sales, but I don't search ebay for things that cost more than list...I go there to find bargains.
 

cybereality

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I had a chance to buy one of the PS5 bundles, it was like $750 with the PS5 Disc version + 2 games + 1 controller.

I would have bought it if it was $500 no bundle, but honestly I don't know of PS5 exclusive games that really interest me.

Still have a bunch of PS4 games to catch up on, and I sold my 4K TV, so it's kind of pointless for me at this point.
 
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