PS4 Hard Drive Upgrade

Ocellaris

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Using the stock drive until someone else runs benchmarks to determine if a 1TB hybrid SSHD makes a difference.
 

bpizzle1

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Using the stock drive until someone else runs benchmarks to determine if a 1TB hybrid SSHD makes a difference.

^^This

I honestly don't think 500gb is going to cut it this gen. I picked up a few games from Target's B2G1 deal today, and their install sizes are all around ~50 gb each. Sure, most people don't play 20 games at a time, but if you care about having instant access to your whole collection (digitally), you are probably going to need to upgrade.
 

LurkerLito

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I am upgrading mine probably before I even turn it on the first time. I just bought one from newegg on Friday. Hitachi GST Travelstar 1TB 7200rpm. It's $69.99 now with the coupon code.
 

Godmachine

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Using the stock drive until someone else runs benchmarks to determine if a 1TB hybrid SSHD makes a difference.

This x 1000. I would honestly be surprised if it made ANY real day to day difference. Right now I think 500GB's is fine , it won't be in a year or so for me but just like last gen the gains will only be felt in a few select games that thrash the HDD a ton.

However having said that the difference between the PS3 and PS4 is that PS3 installs were not frequent , they were uncommon. PS4 installs are mandatory which means if you have a 30GB+ game constantly hitting up the slow as shit 500GB drive then you might actually see a sizable difference between a pure SSD and the stock drive.

But you should keep in mind that SSD's have a nice long history of controller failure. HDD's do not suffer from controller failure nearly as often but suffer from mechanical failure (since SSD's use NAND memory which has zero moving parts it never suffers from this). So if you buy an SSD to upgrade stick with Samsung , Intel and Crucial unless you want to risk losing shit tons of data.

I think in the end it won't matter though as since Microsoft has already stated its going to enable external storage we all know that Sony will follow suit as they always do and vice versa. Having an external storage option will render the argument done since you can easily buy an external enclosure and a nice 3TB drive while cashing new games to an internal SSD so you can have your cake and eat it too.
 

bigdogchris

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However having said that the difference between the PS3 and PS4 is that PS3 installs were not frequent , they were uncommon. PS4 installs are mandatory which means if you have a 30GB+ game constantly hitting up the slow as shit 500GB drive then you might actually see a sizable difference between a pure SSD and the stock drive.
That's the exact argument I made in the other thread, which you quickly dismissed. So you've had a change of heart?
But you should keep in mind that SSD's have a nice long history of controller failure. HDD's do not suffer from controller failure nearly as often but suffer from mechanical failure (since SSD's use NAND memory which has zero moving parts it never suffers from this). So if you buy an SSD to upgrade stick with Samsung , Intel and Crucial unless you want to risk losing shit tons of data.
I agree it's a good idea to get a name brand, but as of now, there are only a few controller and NAND manufacturers. Most SSD's are made by the same company and have the same NAND. The difference in brand comes into play with the warranty and programming of the firmware.
I think in the end it won't matter though as since Microsoft has already stated its going to enable external storage we all know that Sony will follow suit as they always do and vice versa. Having an external storage option will render the argument done since you can easily buy an external enclosure and a nice 3TB drive while cashing new games to an internal SSD so you can have your cake and eat it too.
That would be a good idea; games on the SSD and everything else on external.
 

jmilcher

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If its anything like last gen "faster" drives made no difference. You could increase capacity but ssd's were useless.
 

bigdogchris

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If its anything like last gen "faster" drives made no difference. You could increase capacity but ssd's were useless.
Rather than forming opinion off who knows what facts, if you were to take 30 seconds and do a Google search you'd find plenty of places that have tested and show significant improvements for some games with SSD's on PS3, especially digital purchases that are designed to play from the disk. Considering all games will require hefty, full installs on PS4, why wouldn't this trend continue?
 
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RadXge

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A 512GB SSD seems like an interesting option to me.
I will wait for benchmarks before making any move.
The (unconfirmed?) lack of TRIM is a let down thought.
 

King Icewind

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Supposedly it does not. The PS4 OS is built off OpenBSD which supports trim, but apparently the PS4's modification of it doesn't. Maybe at a later update. Also don't forget that the PS4 only has SATAII drive, not SATAIII, and the hard drive has to be 9.5mm or less (2.5) which isn't an issue with SSDs.

It's kind of up in the air though. SSD's would most likely help in performance, however the PS4 only has a 1.6-1.8ghz processor. The hard drive is only SATAII 5400RPM and may only have 16mb cache. That's probably only 80-100mb/s read speed. Does a 1.6ghz-1.8ghz processor need more than that?

Then again, given how large the game files are (40-50GB) they are going to take up a lot of platter space. Hard drives have higher read speeds the farther out the head is on the platter, so I wonder if games you installed first (the farthest out on the platter) will run better than those you installed last (closer in). I hope defragmentation won't be an issue either given their size. SSD would solve pretty much all that. Good SSD's have 500ish read speeds, and no platter isssues, but 512GB SSDs are as much or more than the entire PS4. I personally do not want to spend that much, nor do I want better hardware in my PS4 over my computer. Ha. We are looking at roughly 9 games installed on a 500GB hard drive. That sucks. Who knows if games will continue to grow in size either.

I think just getting the biggest 2.5" 7200 RPM 32 MB Cache hard drive you can is the best option. I will probably get this one if the stock hard drive is lousy.
 
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bigdogchris

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It's kind of up in the air though. SSD's would most likely help in performance, however the PS4 only has a 1.6-1.8ghz processor. The hard drive is only SATAII 5400RPM and may only have 16mb cache. That's probably only 80-100mb/s read speed. Does a 1.6ghz-1.8ghz processor need more than that?

Then again, given how large the game files are (40-50GB) they are going to take up a lot of platter space. Hard drives have higher read speeds the farther out the head is on the platter, so I wonder if games you installed first (the farthest out on the platter) will run better than those you installed last (closer in). I hope defragmentation won't be an issue either given their size. SSD would solve pretty much all that. Good SSD's have 500ish read speeds, and no platter isssues, but 512GB SSDs are as much or more than the entire PS4. I personally do not want to spend that much, nor do I want better hardware in my PS4 over my computer. Ha. We are looking at roughly 9 games installed on the a 500GB hard drive. That sucks.

I think just getting the biggest 2.5" 7200 RPM 32MB Cache hard drive you can is the best option.
You make several good points.

The German site that looked at the PS4 hard drive a few weeks ago benched the drive around 80-100MBs. But your right, the performance does drop significantly on a hard drive the further into the spindle you are. A game installed when you first take the PS4 out of the box is going to run faster than a game installed when 450GB is used on the drive.

With a SSD or Hybrid SSD, you won't have this problem as much.
 

demingo

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Supposedly it does not. The PS4 OS is built off OpenBSD which supports trim, but apparently the PS4's modification of it doesn't. Maybe at a later update. Also don't forget that the PS4 only has SATAII drive, not SATAIII, and the hard drive has to be 9.5mm or less (2.5) which isn't an issue with SSDs.

It's kind of up in the air though. SSD's would most likely help in performance, however the PS4 only has a 1.6-1.8ghz processor. The hard drive is only SATAII 5400RPM and may only have 16mb cache. That's probably only 80-100mb/s read speed. Does a 1.6ghz-1.8ghz processor need more than that?

Then again, given how large the game files are (40-50GB) they are going to take up a lot of platter space. Hard drives have higher read speeds the farther out the head is on the platter, so I wonder if games you installed first (the farthest out on the platter) will run better than those you installed last (closer in). I hope defragmentation won't be an issue either given their size. SSD would solve pretty much all that. Good SSD's have 500ish read speeds, and no platter isssues, but 512GB SSDs are as much or more than the entire PS4. I personally do not want to spend that much, nor do I want better hardware in my PS4 over my computer. Ha. We are looking at roughly 9 games installed on a 500GB hard drive. That sucks. Who knows if games will continue to grow in size either.

I think just getting the biggest 2.5" 7200 RPM 32 MB Cache hard drive you can is the best option. I will probably get this one if the stock hard drive is lousy.

Processor speed has almost nothing to do with SSD drive speed. Any modern chip (including jaguar) has more than enough power to max out the sata bus. Also it's not the processor you're loading up but data into ram... Processors don't hold data, ram does. Your entire statement about the processor is just... off.
 

King Icewind

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Processor speed has almost nothing to do with SSD drive speed. Any modern chip (including jaguar) has more than enough power to max out the sata bus. Also it's not the processor you're loading up but data into ram... Processors don't hold data, ram does. Your entire statement about the processor is just... off.

No it's not. The PS4 is only going to be as fast as it's slowest part. If the 1.6ghz processor or GPU is struggling all the extra read speed in the world won't matter.
 

Vegasr

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I am upgrading mine probably before I even turn it on the first time. I just bought one from newegg on Friday. Hitachi GST Travelstar 1TB 7200rpm. It's $69.99 now with the coupon code.

I thought Sony posted that a replacement drive needed to be 5400 rpm, like the 500gb that's in there already. I'm sure the 7200 will work, but why not stick with what's suggested.
 

demingo

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No it's not. The PS4 is only going to be as fast as it's slowest part. If the 1.6ghz processor or GPU is struggling all the extra read speed in the world won't matter.

You don't understand computing very well do you?
 

Godmachine

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That's the exact argument I made in the other thread, which you quickly dismissed. So you've had a change of heart?

A man can't change his mind?

I agree it's a good idea to get a name brand, but as of now, there are only a few controller and NAND manufacturers. Most SSD's are made by the same company and have the same NAND. The difference in brand comes into play with the warranty and programming of the firmware.

True but the support can make a difference. For instance I would avoid OCZ like the plague but they have a very active forum user base which would lead you to think they make solid products.

That would be a good idea; games on the SSD and everything else on external.

I would love to do this from day one. But we can't have what we want sometimes.
 

zandor

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I bet a HD upgrade will help more with the PS4 because of the installation requirement. Tuning a game to load decently fast off of an optical drive takes some work. Time = $, and devs won't do that if they can assume a HD. It's basically the same situation you see on PCs with devs assuming games will be installed on a HD, and I'd expect similar results. Faster HDs and SSDs will help, just like they do for PC gaming.
 

quimby999

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I'm sure there will be models out with larger installed drives in the future and I canceled my preorder because there isn't really a game I want on either system til later in 2014, maybe there will be 1 tb editions by a year from now.
 

bpmurrGT

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I thought Sony posted that a replacement drive needed to be 5400 rpm, like the 500gb that's in there already. I'm sure the 7200 will work, but why not stick with what's suggested.

A 7,200 RPM drive probably isn't a good idea because of the extra heat.
 

Bob_Dole

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You don't understand computing very well do you?

Wait, before you continue explaining why he/she is wrong.

YCzMI.gif


Okay, good to go.:cool:
 

runs2far

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It's kind of up in the air though. SSD's would most likely help in performance, however the PS4 only has a 1.6-1.8ghz processor. The hard drive is only SATAII 5400RPM and may only have 16mb cache. That's probably only 80-100mb/s read speed. Does a 1.6ghz-1.8ghz processor need more than that?

Even the old Atom netbooks showed a decrease in load times when going from a 5400 rpm drive to an SSD.
You can get ~300 mbyte/s from the interface, and the jaguar is plenty fast to send that amount of data to the ram.
Will a SSD upgrade make a noticeable difference in actual use of the PS4, who knows, wait until release and let somebody test it before you install a $400 SSD into a $400 console.

I would just plunk in the cheapest biggest drive available and be done with it,
it's a console it is cheaper than a PC and less hassle and I would keep it that way.
The hardware baseline is the stock drive and developers have to design their game around a slow HDD.

You don't understand computing very well do you?

Did you learn to debate on the internet?
 

Viper87227

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When I get around to picking up a PS4 (probably early next year), I'll likely be picking up a 1TB drive to drop in from Day 1. I'm tired of discs, I want to go 100% digital this generation, so I'll make good use of the space. I don't want to deal with migrating data down the road.

I certainly won't be putting in an SSD. Sure, it may make a difference, but I can't imagine it would be huge, and putting a drive in that would damn near double the cost of the console is just something I can't wrap my brain around.
 

bigdogchris

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No it's not. The PS4 is only going to be as fast as it's slowest part. If the 1.6ghz processor or GPU is struggling all the extra read speed in the world won't matter.
The slowest part on the PS4 or any computer, by any stretch of the imagination, is the hard drive. Even SSD's and storage controllers bottleneck modern computers when you think that memory is writing at 8,000MBs or faster.
 

runs2far

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The slowest part on the PS4 or any computer, by any stretch of the imagination, is the hard drive. Even SSD's and storage controllers bottleneck modern computers when you think that memory is writing at 8,000MBs or faster.

Actually the Blu-ray drive is the slowest part of the PS4 :D
 

bigdogchris

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Actually the Blu-ray drive is the slowest part of the PS4 :D
OK you got me.

The slowest part on the PS4 or any computer, by any stretch of the imagination, is the hard drive*.

* = After game installation, during normal game play.

The PS4 Blu-ray drive bottlenecks installation times, but not game play because the games are fully installed when you play them.

;)
 

LurkerLito

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The heat difference between a 7200 vs 5400 rpm drive is minimal. It won't be significant enough to matter to the overall system. In my PC system, the 7200rpm drives run at around the same temps as the 5400 and SSD drives (within 4c-5c) and the SSD runs at the same temp as a 7200rpm drive most of the time. If the PS4 couldn't handle a 7200rpm drive heat then it couldn't handle a modern SSD either.

The 1TB 7200rpm drive I got yesterday, I already ran a full surface read/write test on it and it maxed at 43c, it's cold now so if I adjust to the temps I got when it was much hotter, I'd say it'd max at around 53c-55c in the summer. I run HD Sentinel so I have a record of all installed HDs temps over time, and by far the hottest drive is my SSD maxing at 57c at some point.
 

jedolley

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The heat difference between a 7200 vs 5400 rpm drive is minimal. It won't be significant enough to matter to the overall system. In my PC system, the 7200rpm drives run at around the same temps as the 5400 and SSD drives (within 4c-5c) and the SSD runs at the same temp as a 7200rpm drive most of the time. If the PS4 couldn't handle a 7200rpm drive heat then it couldn't handle a modern SSD either.

The 1TB 7200rpm drive I got yesterday, I already ran a full surface read/write test on it and it maxed at 43c, it's cold now so if I adjust to the temps I got when it was much hotter, I'd say it'd max at around 53c-55c in the summer. I run HD Sentinel so I have a record of all installed HDs temps over time, and by far the hottest drive is my SSD maxing at 57c at some point.

Which 1TB 7200RPM HDD did you get and are you intending to use it with the PS4? I've ordered both the HGST 1TB 7200RPM HDD and the Seagate 1TB SSHD as I was not sure which I should go with.
 

Johnx64

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I'm definitely going bigger just like everyone else has said just waiting on performance reviews. I would like to have the majority of my games easily accessible and enough room to download and install ps+\f2p\game recordings\demos\any other content the PSN has to offer.
 

bigdogchris

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Which 1TB 7200RPM HDD did you get and are you intending to use it with the PS4? I've ordered both the HGST 1TB 7200RPM HDD and the Seagate 1TB SSHD as I was not sure which I should go with.
The SSHD should out perform the standard drive by quiet a bit after data starts caching.
 

LurkerLito

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Which 1TB 7200RPM HDD did you get and are you intending to use it with the PS4? I've ordered both the HGST 1TB 7200RPM HDD and the Seagate 1TB SSHD as I was not sure which I should go with.

I bought a HGST Travelstar 1TB 7200rpm. If the SSHD fits in the PS4, I'd say go with that. I only went with a HGST because of price mainly (it was on sale last Friday with a coupon code). The slight boost in speed is a welcome addition, but not my main concern.
 

next-Jin

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With something like a console I couldn't see a hybrid drive being that much better than a normal drive. For me it's either a SSD or the largest spindle I can throw in there.
 

jedolley

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Why not something like this for a few more dollars?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178340

Claims - Boots and performs like an SSD, PC& Mac Compatible
Up to 5× faster than a traditional 5400-RPM HDD

Yeah, I got that SSHD and the HGST 1TB 7200RPM drive. There is about a $30 difference between the two (at least at the sale prices I got them for). Seagate demoed their SSHD on a PS3 at CES 2013 and the differences were amazing. It's still unknown if it will have as much of an affect on the PS4 if any.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-OMi6RWpY
 

bigdogchris

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With something like a console I couldn't see a hybrid drive being that much better than a normal drive. For me it's either a SSD or the largest spindle I can throw in there.
Hybrid drives make a lot of sense in consoles. The cost is only slightly more than traditional drives. Plus, since the NAND is managed by the drive controller, you don't need to worry about stuff like TRIM which a lot of people are since PS4 doesn't support it. The SSHD controller monitors usage and caches data accordingly. PS4 OS files and game files for the titles you are playing a lot are going to be cached into NAND automatically. With an OS that doesn't recognize SSDs, Hybrid drives make great options.
 

LurkerLito

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