PS4: $399, no online authentication, no used game restrictions...(Post E3 discussion)

Megalith said:
I just realized that PS4 basically has nothing for launch other than Killzone, and I hardly care about that.
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It's pretty much a standard console launch, really. Name a console that has had more than 1 or 2 great games at launch in the last 10 years.
 
That's pretty impressive, but not unexpected. There is really no new tech this generation for both consoles. The hardware is pretty basic stuff and blu-ray drive isn't a new technology this time around. And of course no cell to screw themselves over with.
 
For those who plan to play FF XIV on PS4, you're in for a treat. The game will run at 1080p/60 with Highest PC graphic equivalent AND will support KB&M.

SOURCE
 
Hmm I was hoping to have another developer give specifics on resolutions and performance numbers between the two oh well.
 
next-Jin said:
Hmm I was hoping to have another developer give specifics on resolutions and performance numbers between the two oh well.
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PS3 is 720p/30 PS4 is 1080p/60

dualshockers said:
On February the 22nd 2014 Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn will enter its beta testing phase on PS4 (and those that already bought the PS3 version will get the PS4 version for free), but how will it run and how good will it really look? According to Director and Producer Naoki Yoshida, it’ll run really well and look great, as he shared today in an interview on Game Watch.

Yoshida-san explained that the PS4 version of the game will have a visual fidelity equivalent to the current highest PC setting, and that it’ll run in 1080p resolution at 60 fps, unlike the PS3 version that is limited to 720p and 30 fps. It will also display the same number of characters on screen as the PC version.

It’s worth mentioning that he didn’t mention if the PS4 version will run at 60 FPS stably or will just get there when there isn’t much crowd. A stable 60 FPS framerate would be a quite amazing feat, considering that at the moment you need a rather beefy PC to keep the framerate locked there in the most crowded situations.

That said, he clarified that a DirectX 11 version of the PC client is currently in development, and while the PS4 version will use some of the new DirectX 11 features, it won’t use them all.

In addition to that, he also stated that, since there’s memory to spare, the option to use keyboard and mouse with the PS4 version will be implemented. You can already use them in the PS3 version, but the keyboard and mouse UI isn’t implemented due to memory limitations, making them almost useless. The touch pad of the DualShock 4 has also been already tested to be used for targeting.

Talking about the PS4 beta test Yoshida-san said that it’ll happen on separate servers from the live servers currently used for PS3 and PC, as the team cannot afford to disturb the current players if critical bugs were to occur. The test will happen in stages and players will initially begin with new characters, and then they’ll be given access to their old PS3 characters.

The estimated duration for the PS4 beta test is about a month. If everything goes well, data from the third week onward will carry over to the live servers.

If you want to know more about the future of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, you can find a large batch of info, screenshots and artwork directly from Tokyo Game Show showing the Crystal Tower raid dungeon, player housing and the Lightning Returns crossover and more here, while the related trailers are here.
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There's no way the game will run at 60 FPS in towns or boss fights.
 
AceCR42 said:
There's no way the game will run at 60 FPS in towns or boss fights.
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Why not? The PS4 does not have the same bottlenecks that a PC has.

Yep, I just went there.

Anyways, the game will probably not run at 60FPS in all area's but in outdoor area's it will.
 
bigdogchris said:
Why not? The PS4 does not have the same bottlenecks that a PC has.

Yep, I just went there.

Anyways, the game will probably not run at 60FPS in all area's but in outdoor area's it will.
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its apparent you have no idea what you are talking about
 
dremic said:
its apparent you have no idea what you are talking about
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Open your mind for a moment.

Is it possible, just possible, that when a developer knows exactly what hardware a user will have, they can optimize their code to perform better than systems with bloated API's and drivers, with randomly thrown together parts?

The fact that developers know they have upwards of 5-6GB of memory to work with on PS4 means they can load many more assets into memory to help reduce load times and disk access, thus improving performance. Even if PC has 8-16GB of memory, that doesn't mean the game code is designed to take advantage of that. On PS4 is can be.

Also, the PS4's unified memory system is superior to PC in almost every way. The CPU and GPU on PS4 does not need to copy data back and forth, hurting performance.
 
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The thing is we don't have a that many confirmed titles running at 1080p 60fps on next0gen consoles. e.g. KZ:SF only in multiplayer, Ryse is now known to be upscaled etc etc. Forza is still 1080p fps but doesn't use dynamic lighting.

The new hardware is good, optimization is good, but its not magic, and doing full fidelity 1080p 60fps still needs more horsepower as many people are finding out. I bet the majority of titles this gen are *not* going to achieve that, esp on the XB1.
 
MrCrispy said:
The thing is we don't have a that many confirmed titles running at 1080p 60fps on next0gen consoles. e.g. KZ:SF only in multiplayer, Ryse is now known to be upscaled etc etc. Forza is still 1080p fps but doesn't use dynamic lighting.

The new hardware is good, optimization is good, but its not magic, and doing full fidelity 1080p 60fps still needs more horsepower as many people are finding out. I bet the majority of titles this gen are *not* going to achieve that, esp on the XB1.
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It could be a lack of experience with the hardware, or that these are launch titles and don't have a full development cycle behind them.
 
dremic said:
its not.

some games just wont be able to do 60 fps
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And? Not every developer targets 60FPS as a target anyway. Games will look better and run better as developers get more experience and the platforms mature. No console ever hit peak performance on launch, makes no sense to declare that the One and PS4 are incapable of certain things based on a few launch titles.
 
ocellaris said:
And? Not every developer targets 60FPS as a target anyway. Games will look better and run better as developers get more experience and the platforms mature. No console ever hit peak performance on launch, makes no sense to declare that the One and PS4 are incapable of certain things based on a few launch titles.
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haha why are you so defensive? relax breh. honestly I notice the 30fps on my computer way more than on consoles. it doesnt even bother me. id rather it be smooth.

consoles are a consistent piece of hardware. even if all the launch titles started at 1080p @ 60fps; in a couple years it wont be able to do that any more.
 
dremic said:
consoles are a consistent piece of hardware. even if all the launch titles started at 1080p @ 60fps; in a couple years it wont be able to do that any more.
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Then why do some 360 and PS3 games look better and run at a higher resolution than previous games from the same series?
 
ocellaris said:
Then why do some 360 and PS3 games look better and run at a higher resolution than previous games from the same series?
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maybe rayman origins. otherwise youre just blowing smoke up my ass.


games look better over the course of a consoles life as devs get more used to working with the dev kits for that system. thats a given. with the visual improvements come a decrease in performance thats just common sense
 
dremic said:
maybe rayman origins. otherwise youre just blowing smoke up my ass.


games look better over the course of a consoles life as devs get more used to working with the dev kits for that system. thats a given. with the visual improvements come a decrease in performance thats just common sense
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Between Halo 3, Halo Reach, and 4 the game series went from 640P to 720P native and Halo 4 looks tremendously better than Halo 3.
 
ocellaris said:
Between Halo 3, Halo Reach, and 4 the game series went from 640P to 720P native and Halo 4 looks tremendously better than Halo 3.
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that should not be used as a basis for your argument. considering about 90% of 360 games and ps3 games are native 720p. which is pretty much the standard. halo upgrading to 720p isnt proving a point, other than microsoft blowing in the early years of 360s life
 
dremic said:
that should not be used as a basis for your argument. considering about 90% of 360 games and ps3 games are native 720p. which is pretty much the standard. halo upgrading to 720p isnt proving a point, other than microsoft blowing in the early years of 360s life
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Uncharted 1 - The Last of Us
 
dremic said:
wrong.

All of Naughty Dogs previous PS3 titles (Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3) also runs in 720 natively.

so does last of us
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And you would also agree the newer games look much better, right?
 
ocellaris said:
And you would also agree the newer games look much better, right?
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Not sure I'm following him, ND could easily do 1080p but they would rather have ever more graphic fidelity at 720p/30.

It's all up to the development teams and what they want to do. I'm assuming he is suggesting that there won't be a new standard and they will just stay with 720p/30 which I'd imagine is a half truth.
 
ocellaris said:
Then why do some 360 and PS3 games look better and run at a higher resolution than previous games from the same series?
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they dont run at a higher resolution. they dont run at over 30fps

ocellaris said:
And you would also agree the newer games look much better, right?
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yes newer games look better and they dont go passed 720 @ 30 fps.

GTA looks great for a console game unfortunately its plagued by BAD fps.

next-Jin said:
Not sure I'm following him, ND could easily do 1080p but they would rather have ever more graphic fidelity at 720p/30.

It's all up to the development teams and what they want to do. I'm assuming he is suggesting that there won't be a new standard and they will just stay with 720p/30 which I'd imagine is a half truth.
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the hardware of the PS4 will not change. there may be a few 1080p/60fps games out there when it launches as the life of the system continues they will progress graphically and they will lose that ability to perform at that frame rate and eventually the resolution as well.
 
dremic said:
they dont run at a higher resolution. they dont run at over 30fps

yes newer games look better and they dont go passed 720 @ 30 fps.

GTA looks great for a console game unfortunately its plagued by BAD fps.

the hardware of the PS4 will not change. there may be a few 1080p/60fps games out there when it launches as the life of the system continues they will progress graphically and they will lose that ability to perform at that frame rate and eventually the resolution as well.
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Then why did you say;

dremic said:
wrong.

All of Naughty Dogs previous PS3 titles (Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3) also runs in 720 natively.

so does last of us
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They ran at 720p/30 native yet TLoU looks leaps and bounds better than Uncharted 1, Did Uncharted 1 run at 1080p/60 just to have TLoU run at 720p/30?
 
next-Jin said:
Then why did you say;



They ran at 720p/30 native yet TLoU looks leaps and bounds better than Uncharted 1, Did Uncharted 1 run at 1080p/60 just to have TLoU run at 720p/30?
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what the fuck are you talking about.

uncharted 1 ran at 720p just like the other ones

how is this confusing for you?

a console will not continue to play games at 1080p/60fps.
 
next-Jin said:
Then why did you say;



They ran at 720p/30 native yet TLoU looks leaps and bounds better than Uncharted 1, Did Uncharted 1 run at 1080p/60 just to have TLoU run at 720p/30?
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You're arguing with someone who thinks "performance" is nothing more than a limited resource on a console, and that to improve the graphics in one aspect (resolution, frame rate, etc), you need to have trade offs in another place (resolution, frame rate, etc). He's ignoring the obvious facts that developers often find new methods to generate the same level of fidelity more efficiently down the road, opening up options for more special effects or more detail, or new features. He's also ignoring that millions of little details affect the quality of graphics and framerate of a game, not just resolution and hardware.

So basically, he's treating performance like gasoline in a car, when it's more like thousands of gears in a machine that directly or indirectly affect the outcome.
 
dremic said:
what the fuck are you talking about.

uncharted 1 ran at 720p just like the other ones

how is this confusing for you?

a console will not continue to play games at 1080p/60fps.
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He's saying that Uncharted 1 and The Last of Us run at the same resolution, and yet the newest game looks a hell of a lot better. What do you not understand? Do you understand english? Or computers? You do realize they don't run on magic pixie dust, right?
 
ballistic90 said:
You're arguing with someone who thinks "performance" is nothing more than a limited resource on a console, and that to improve the graphics in one aspect (resolution, frame rate, etc), you need to have trade offs in another place (resolution, frame rate, etc). He's ignoring the obvious facts that developers often find new methods to generate the same level of fidelity more efficiently down the road, opening up options for more special effects or more detail, or new features. He's also ignoring that millions of little details affect the quality of graphics and framerate of a game, not just resolution and hardware.

So basically, he's treating performance like gasoline in a car, when it's more like thousands of gears in a machine that directly or indirectly affect the outcome.
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im not ignoring anything besides simple logic.

fuck efficiency dude. your hardware is consistent and it doesnt change. especially with the new architecture over the proprietary one you are looking at a computer that doesnt upgrade.

games will look better and you will be sacrificing either resolution or frame rates thats just good fuckin logic dude.

if you honestly think in a few years the graphical prowess of games will double and there will be no sacrifice in resolution or frames; you arent naive, youre stupid.

EDIT:

and by the way killzone shadow fall is by far the best looking game shown on the system and its already capped at 30fps @ 1080p.
 
dremic said:
im not ignoring anything besides simple logic.

fuck efficiency dude. your hardware is consistent and it doesnt change. especially with the new architecture over the proprietary one you are looking at a computer that doesnt upgrade.

games will look better and you will be sacrificing either resolution or frame rates thats just good fuckin logic dude.

if you honestly think in a few years the graphical prowess of games will double and there will be no sacrifice in resolution or frames; you arent naive, youre stupid.

EDIT:

and by the way killzone shadow fall is by far the best looking game shown on the system and its already capped at 30fps @ 1080p.
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Yes. I must be stupid despite being the only one of the two of us that A) can use punctuation and capitalization accurately and B) has programmed and made video games. Yes, I must be stupid and don't know what I'm talking about in programming or development, despite having done it myself.

I got an idea, how about you look at the examples that obviously ignore and contradict you? Hardware doesn't change, but programming efficiency, SDKs and game engines do. Many games use tricks like only texturing the sides of models that you'll ever see, or reducing polygon count of faraway objects to reduce demand on the hardware. Or develop new algorithims that reduce the AI's CPU load, or new ways to produce beautiful water effects while drastically reducing the processor cycles devoted to it. A lot of coding can be updated to run faster and achieve the same result as slower running code. These advances take time and effort, and you don't see this applied to launch titles because of it.

Hell, compare GTA 4 and 5 on Xbox 360, or compare the 2 on PS3. GTA 5 sure looks better and offers a better draw distance. Does it run at a lower framerate? Does it run at a lower resolution? No. What's your explanation?
 
ballistic90 said:
Yes. I must be stupid despite being the only one of the two of us that A) can use punctuation and capitalization accurately and B) has programmed and made video games. Yes, I must be stupid and don't know what I'm talking about in programming or development, despite having done it myself.

I got an idea, how about you look at the examples that obviously ignore and contradict you? Hardware doesn't change, but programming efficiency, SDKs and game engines do. Many games use tricks like only texturing the sides of models that you'll ever see, or reducing polygon count of faraway objects to reduce demand on the hardware. Or develop new algorithims that reduce the AI's CPU load, or new ways to produce beautiful water effects while drastically reducing the processor cycles devoted to it. A lot of coding can be updated to run faster and achieve the same result as slower running code. These advances take time and effort, and you don't see this applied to launch titles because of it.

Hell, compare GTA 4 and 5 on Xbox 360, or compare the 2 on PS3. GTA 5 sure looks better and offers a better draw distance. Does it run at a lower framerate? Does it run at a lower resolution? No. What's your explanation?
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Thanks man! I'm glad you pointed out my terrible punctuation and grammar on an online computer enthusiast forum, I guess I missed the part where this was an english subforum
:( split hairs much?

The only way you are a game developer is if RPG maker 7 counts.

gta 5 runs like shit dude have you played it? constant dips in frame rate. and its a problem, oh and its mentioned in every review ive read -_- terrible example.

last of us also an excellent example of frame dips because they made the game look better. naughty dog is the best developer for the playstation by far.
 
ballistic90 said:
Yes. I must be stupid despite being the only one of the two of us that A) can use punctuation and capitalization accurately and B) has programmed and made video games. Yes, I must be stupid and don't know what I'm talking about in programming or development, despite having done it myself.

I got an idea, how about you look at the examples that obviously ignore and contradict you? Hardware doesn't change, but programming efficiency, SDKs and game engines do. Many games use tricks like only texturing the sides of models that you'll ever see, or reducing polygon count of faraway objects to reduce demand on the hardware. Or develop new algorithims that reduce the AI's CPU load, or new ways to produce beautiful water effects while drastically reducing the processor cycles devoted to it. A lot of coding can be updated to run faster and achieve the same result as slower running code. These advances take time and effort, and you don't see this applied to launch titles because of it.

Hell, compare GTA 4 and 5 on Xbox 360, or compare the 2 on PS3. GTA 5 sure looks better and offers a better draw distance. Does it run at a lower framerate? Does it run at a lower resolution? No. What's your explanation?
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I'll chime in just for a brief second and offer my two cents. As someone who's had a 2 year stint at two separate game studios doing some physics and crunch coding, it's painfully difficult to explain to people how and why a game behaves the way it does, even if efficient coding practices are taken to extremes.

I agree with your comment about algorithms and new processes taken to another road to offer better compute cycles and more efficiency. There's always a better way to do something MUCH more efficiently, given time, money, and ability to throw more people at a task to solve it faster/better. The fact of the matter, is that not all games will be capped at 30fps, and not all games will take advantage of advanced understandings of systems (the consoles and the infrastructure) until much later on. I think it's between a rock and a hard place here, and we'll all keep butting heads for whatever reason on this, for months to come.

BUT...Games don't always run better later in the cycle though, because developers (common tactic coming up here) try to push everything out of a system, and you can't improve something FOREVER. At some point you just need better hardware. I think that's the big thing to take away from all this.
 
BiH115 said:
BUT...Games don't always run better later in the cycle though, because developers (common tactic coming up here) try to push everything out of a system, and you can't improve something FOREVER. At some point you just need better hardware. I think that's the big thing to take away from all this.
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Certain people have already signaled the death knell for the PS4 and One based on information from like three games. Games and tech will get better on both systems. Maybe not for the entire life cycle, however it is illogical to think that the games coming out this year for both consoles are as good as they are going to get.
 
ocellaris said:
Certain people have already signaled the death knell for the PS4 and One based on information from like three games. Games and tech will get better on both systems. Maybe not for the entire life cycle, however it is illogical to think that the games coming out this year for both consoles are as good as they are going to get.
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but see you are so blindly defending the product you are ignoring logic same goes for ballistic.


you act like i am attacking the ps4/xbone because i think theyre shitty or something

consoles definitely have their place and i have a launch edition ps4 from amazon ready and preordered man. im excited as shit. but that doesnt mean im not gonna be realistic.

i would like the games to always have 1080p/60fps. but that ISNT realistic. its not going to happen. you will sacrifice these things for graphical improvements thats just common knowledge.

this conversation holds little weight either way though. but in a few years im going to necro the shit out of this thread when we start seeing games at 720p/30fps :p
 
dremic said:
but see you are so blindly defending the product you are ignoring logic same goes for ballistic.


you act like i am attacking the ps4/xbone because i think theyre shitty or something

consoles definitely have their place and i have a launch edition ps4 from amazon ready and preordered man. im excited as shit. but that doesnt mean im not gonna be realistic.

i would like the games to always have 1080p/60fps. but that ISNT realistic. its not going to happen. you will sacrifice these things for graphical improvements thats just common knowledge.

this conversation holds little weight either way though. but in a few years im going to necro the shit out of this thread when we start seeing games at 720p/30fps :p
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Exactly, it's all speculation at this point, and going further through this mess is pointless.
 
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